High-Nicotine E-Cigarettes May Make Teens Vape More, Study Warns (philly.com) 173
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Philly.com: Teens who vape e-cigarettes with higher nicotine levels are more likely to start smoking conventional cigarettes soon after, new research shows. E-cigarettes are sold with nicotine levels ranging from zero to more than 25 milligrams of nicotine per milliliter (mg/mL). In this study, a high-nicotine device was defined as having levels at or above 18 mg/mL. Leventhal's team tracked outcomes for 181 grade-10 students from high schools in the Los Angeles area. All of the teens said they had used e-cigarettes within the past month, and they provided data on nicotine levels in the devices they used. Six months later, those who used higher nicotine levels in their e-cigarettes were more likely to report use of both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes within the past month. These teens also reported vaping and/or smoking more intensely. While 43 percent of the students who'd used high-nicotine e-cigarettes said they were "frequent smokers" of traditional cigarettes six months later, that was true for only 10 percent of those who'd vaped using lower-nicotine devices, Leventhal's group found. And teens who vaped using high-nicotine e-cigarettes smoked an average of 14 times as many "regular" cigarettes per day six months later compared to those who'd tried nicotine-free versions of the devices, the findings showed. The study was published in JAMA Pediatrics.
Boot it (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Boot it (Score:5, Insightful)
50 years ago people were debating that (Score:2)
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Dang it... I can't wait until 11. I hate it when the news does that.
e-Cig as hookah alternative (Score:1)
I use an e-Cig as an alternative to hookah. No more worries about a coal getting tipped and burning the carpet/floor/table and the flavor is way better. Plus it's portable though I never take it outside of my house. I've never smoked cigarettes and always use 0mg nicotine juices.
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THis is great news (Score:2)
Its nice to see that natural selection is being kept alive.
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they are also killing off the rest of us who have to choose between either inhaling the noxious stuff as well or not breathing at all when there's somebody smoking nearby.
If your system is so weak that 2nd-hand cigarette smoke from a passing smoker has any effect on your health then it's a wonder you're still alive.
IOW, I call bullshit on your claims of temporary 2nd-hand smoke having any effect on your health. Long-term (living with a smoker, for example) - sure. But someone smoking on the street? Bullshit.
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http://www.lung.org/stop-smoki... [lung.org]
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http://www.lung.org/stop-smoki... [lung.org]
That study in [8] seems to agree with me, as they define SHS exposure in terms of how much exposure is received, with SHS exposure below their threshold being considered non-exposure.
IOW, they don't consider "2nd-hand cigarette smoke from a passing smoker " to be SHS. This lets them lead the abstract off with "no levels of SHS are safe" because they specifically ignore non-chronic SHS. Smart. Misleading, but smart.
I've not seen any study on non-chronic SHS. Every study leaves it out, usually because the non
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I agree that average city air being so polluted with other stuff would make a non-chronic SHS study almost impossible.
That said, if I go anywhere near people smoking, even just briefly, my own body quickly starts clearly telling me that it's some nasty shit that I'm (re)breathing.
I surprisingly quickly start to get stinging eyes and irritated sinuses etc. and it only gets worse if I stay around them.
I don't get anything like that from gasoline car exhausts or anything much else, except I also very quickly g
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I sure as fuck hope you're not living in a big city. Because if, second hand smoke is the least of your concern when you breathe...
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I sure as fuck hope you're not living in a big city. Because if, second hand smoke is the least of your concern when you breathe...
It's not all that expensive to put your home under positive pressure with a HEPA+carbon filter. In the grand scheme of expenses in the big city, it's minor. These days most cars worth more than a buck or two have a carbon cabin air filter. If you don't spend much time outside, second hand smoke could actually be one of your major air pollutants.
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Unfortunately not... while these imbeciles who didn't have the common sense to not start in the first place might very well be killing themselves off (not quickly enough, for my liking), they are also killing off the rest of us who have to choose between either inhaling the noxious stuff as well or not breathing at all when there's somebody smoking nearby. Unfortunately, one's ongoing need for oxygen may somewhat limits the non-smoker's options in this regard.
So many commenters on Slashdot are some of the most rude, hateful, and condescending people I have ever heard(read). Always so quick to judge others and claim a persons/groups lives as valueless; themselves displaying bizarre feelings of undeserved superiority. Like this person, who can't wait for people to die because he doesn't like their choice in drugs. They'll probably claim second hand smoke, "its affecting me too!!". I would counter that its another example of natural selection, killing off the weak
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They'll probably claim second hand smoke, "its affecting me too!!". I would counter that its another example of natural selection, killing off the weak who can't handle a little smoke.
What is it about Slashdot's audience that so many are filled with hate, anger, disrespect, and inflated sense of worth and superiority?
Mostly the 2nd-hand smoke issue was a lot of propaganda designed to raise funding than any real science. The largest and longest study (Enstrom & Kabat) followed more than 35,000 subjects for almost 40 years and found no significant risk associated with second-hand smoke. Similarly, the World Health Organization spent seven years at a dozen research centers in seven countries and came to the same conclusion.
The real science is out there if you look for it. Here is one example. [smokingaloud.com]
I'm braced to be modded i
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I'd agree with you if the cause of that smoke was itself natural. It is no more an example of natural selection, as you say, "killing off the weak who cannot handle a little smoke", than bullets fired from a rifle are natural selection, killing off the weaklings who can't take a gunshot wound. The exposure to both are caused by the choice of another person, and there is nothing natural about
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>> It is no more an example of natural selection...than bullets fired from a rifle are natural selection, killing off the weaklings who can't take a gunshot wound.
There's absolutely nothing about the process of natural selection that requires the source of potential death to be not man-made. Assuming multiple people are shot in an identical way, then some live and go on to breed while others die, you most definitely are subjecting them to natural selection.
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In general, something being man-made is typically considered to be exclusive of it being naturally caused. You wouldn't go around saying that automobiles naturally exist, would you?
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You're missing a fundamental point. The thing that is natural is the process of selection itself, not the instigator.
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I still prefer them to the passive-agressive posters with such tiny balls that post anything even slightly contentious as AC.
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"Your smoke bothers me!!!!"
"Good. Look, lady, it kills me, but do you see me make a fuss?"
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The CDC says 41,000 Americans were killed in the U.S. during 2016 due to second hand smoke.
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The CDC says 41,000 Americans were killed in the U.S. during 2016 due to second hand smoke.
And I'd wager none of those people died as a result of standing next to a smoker at a bus stop. That's the kind of thing that Mark-T was whining about above; not a non-smoker who lives with a smoker.
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The CDC says 41,000 Americans were killed in the U.S. during 2016 due to second hand smoke.
And I'd wager none of those people died as a result of standing next to a smoker at a bus stop. That's the kind of thing that Mark-T was whining about above; not a non-smoker who lives with a smoker.
Actually, the statistic is based on the number of people that died from what they define as "smoke related illnesses," which includes lung cancer and heart disease. People are included even if they never smoked and were never around smokers. Makes it easier to inflate the numbers.
Kids that smoked more than kids that didn't? (Score:2)
"And teens who vaped using high-nicotine e-cigarettes smoked an average of 14 times as many "regular" cigarettes per day six months later compared to those who'd tried nicotine-free versions of the devices"
This is ridiculous. Kids that e-smoked nicotine smoked more than kids that smoked nicotine-free e-cigs? What's the point of smoking if you have nicotine-free e-cigs?
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I say the same thing about decaffeinated coffee.
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Mostly because coffee is much more than a caffeine delivery system.
It's just that people seem to only think about that.
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"Because I like the taste!"
(Usually spoken by people who then drown any kind of coffee flavor there might be with some syrup)
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Kids that take drugs take more drugs (Score:2)
Kids that take drugs take more drugs than kids that don't. News at 11.
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What's the point of smoking if you have nicotine-free e-cigs?
Nicotine-free doesn't mean drug-free. You can smoke all the same stuff you can smoke in other ways in your e-cig, except maybe crack. It probably doesn't get hot enough for that, given that people normally have to smoke that with a torch.
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how lame.
Not Surprised (Score:3, Informative)
"In this study, a high-nicotine device was defined as having levels at or above 18 mg/mL." I vape in the high 90 watt, low 100 watt range depending on device, but holy shit hitting a liquid with anything higher than 12mg/ml at that power is straight up painful. And while you certainly can find it online, the local shops I go to sell mostly in the 3mg and 6mg range. So yeah, if 18 or 25 isn't doing it for you, you almost have to go to cigarettes because vaping with liquid that strong at even moderate wattage is like having your throat scraped with a thousand tiny ice picks.
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I thought I had diluted some 12mg down to about 9ish at one point but I'd accidentally just mixed two 12mg bottles and hit it at 120 watts. Never again. That one pull hurt more than any cigarette I ever smoked. But generally, yeah, my experience mirrors yours. The only reason I've gone up this high wattage wise is because the flavors I find I enjoy (mostly tobacco variants) don't seem to come out at the low end. My wife has a variety of fruit flavor stuff, mostly apple and sugary cereal imitations, that I f
Bullshit. (Score:1)
Nicotine is nothing. The smallest slice that will get you off cigs.
But all the other chemicals from smoking? That's the REAL addiction there.
All the thousands of compounds in the cigs or created by burning them together. That's the real danger. And the real addiction.
A chemical stew that ohhhhhhhh... yeah.
You can vape an insane dangerous nicotine level like 6%. Get used to it.
And even after all that. A few puffs on a real cig will FUCK YOU UP like a kid hotboxing his first marlboro.
Ecigs ar
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We could be the generation that ends smoking. But nope. the anti-vape propaganda is well funded.
Yep. Big tobacco is losing the market for vapes to the small companies, so they would rather see vapes go away. And then there's the Tobacco company settlement [wikipedia.org], which provides millions of dollars to all kinds of governments and NGOs. They've seen what happens to their funding when cigarette sales start to fall off, and so does their funding. They will do anything to keep that from happening, from false claims that vapes are just as harmful as cigarettes, to restrictions on vapes that make them harder to get
Who Cares (Score:4, Insightful)
Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
This is nothing more than the anti cigarette brigade getting their panties in a wad over the fact that people flat out love nicotine and want to enjoy it without the bad effects of cigarettes (which are bad).
Better the young'ins be vaping rather than smoke cigarettes.
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That said, the delivery system is still pretty obnoxious. Whether or not the cloud of exhaled vapor is "just water vapor" or not, it still projects into the air and affects the people around the vaper.
Whereas caffeine's delivery system is totally isolated, only the person consuming it will
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That said, the delivery system is still pretty obnoxious. Whether or not the cloud of exhaled vapor is "just water vapor" or not, it still projects into the air and affects the people around the vaper.
Whereas caffeine's delivery system is totally isolated, only the person consuming it will be affected.
It can be obnoxious, but not every paper is a cloud chaser. And I bet those who object to the clouds still prefer that to cigarette smoke.
As for caffeine, it has a strong odour. I'm sure someone somewhere would complain about that.
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Exhaled e-cig vapor does NOT have any nicotine in it and it disapates in a matter of seconds with zero smell where as smoke will linger indefinitely (remember bars in the 90s). The person's lungs will have consumed all of it to the point of the remaining bit being so miniscule. You'll get more of a buzz breathing car exhaust than ecig vapor.
Lots of misinformed individuals on the differences of vapor versus smoke and the subsequent knee jerk reactions.
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Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
No [jamanetwork.com]
it's [uconn.edu]
not [acs.org]
This is nothing more than the anti cigarette brigade getting their panties in a wad over the fact that people flat out love nicotine and want to enjoy it without the bad effects of cigarettes (which are bad).
If that's what you think then maybe you should actually read the article... or the summary.
Better the young'ins be vaping rather than smoke cigarettes.
And if that is where it stopped we wouldn't be commenting on this story.
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Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
No [jamanetwork.com]
it's [uconn.edu]
not [acs.org]
This is nothing more than the anti cigarette brigade getting their panties in a wad over the fact that people flat out love nicotine and want to enjoy it without the bad effects of cigarettes (which are bad).
If that's what you think then maybe you should actually read the article... or the summary.
Better the young'ins be vaping rather than smoke cigarettes.
Did you bother even reading those studies before you posted them?
And if that is where it stopped we wouldn't be commenting on this story.
Study 1 only had 42 participants. Wow, I bet we're supposed to assume 42 people equal the whole of humanity right?
Study 2 claims nicotine causes damage to DNA. You know what else causes damage to DNA? Everything from food to the sun dingus. That's why our bodies developed a way to work against that with antioxidants.
http://www.whydontyoutrythis.c... [whydontyoutrythis.com]
Study 3: a complete duplicate of study 2 hosted on a different server.
Did you even bother reading these studies before you posted to my reply or were you just an
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Did you even bother reading these studies before you posted to my reply
Not only did I read it. We discussed all of them at length of Slashdot with plenty more references if you ever feel to look something up. But given you didn't even read the first line of TFS on this story before posting your nonsense I know you won't.
You sound exactly like all those people who claimed smoking was healthy when studies came out saying it wasn't.
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Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
This is nothing more than the anti cigarette brigade getting their panties in a wad over the fact that people flat out love nicotine and want to enjoy it without the bad effects of cigarettes (which are bad).
Better the young'ins be vaping rather than smoke cigarettes.
How in the FUCK have so many missed the main fucking point being driven here...
"Teens who vape e-cigarettes with higher nicotine levels are more likely to start smoking conventional cigarettes soon after...43 percent of the students who'd used high-nicotine e-cigarettes said they were "frequent smokers" of traditional cigarettes six months later..."
Better the "young'ins" not touch the products that create insatiable addiction and contribute to our #1 cause of preventable death.
Did you read the summary? (Score:3)
Did you read the summary?
Six months later, those who used higher nicotine levels in their e-cigarettes were more likely to report use of both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes within the past month
The point of this article is that vaping with high-nicotine liquid correlates with eventually smoking. Meaning, if we want to keep the young'ins from smoking cigarettes ("which are bad"), maybe we need to keep them away from high-nicotine e-liquid too.
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Did you read the summary?
Six months later, those who used higher nicotine levels in their e-cigarettes were more likely to report use of both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes within the past month
The point of this article is that vaping with high-nicotine liquid correlates with eventually smoking. Meaning, if we want to keep the young'ins from smoking cigarettes ("which are bad"), maybe we need to keep them away from high-nicotine e-liquid too.
Correlation does not always equal causation. Smoking is a cool act that has various influences whether the anti smoking brigade feels otherwise.
Teens that want to smoke will and so will others who want to. The fact that vaping is now available means someone may puff a cigarette every now and then but revert to vaping immediately because of the negative side effects.
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Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
Wrong. Last I checked, caffeine was suspected to cause hardening of your arteries like nicotine is [webmd.com].
I don't want my kid beholden to addiction (Score:3)
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Something's missing (Score:5, Insightful)
The article didn't indicate if these users were already smoking traditional cigarettes, the study only indicates that they were asked if their friends smoked cigs or hookah.
In the high mg group 95% of their friends smoked(and likely they did as well). Without having the numbers of who the smokers were at the beginning of the study, the conclusion is suspect. Another study out of nannystate cali with a couple harrumphs from their cousin NY. This comes out as Gottlieb is re-evaluating the regulations that were released with the deeming ruling of 2016.
This data was gathered from 2013-2015, which was still in the stone age of vaping. Modern devices utilize a much lower range of nicotine from 0-6mg/ml.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2657310
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Looking at their setup, there is a critical flaw. They apparently didn't bother to see if the students vaping nigh nicotine were current or former smokers at baseline or if they started nicotine with vaping. My observation is that really strong nicotine liquids are needed by people trying to transition to e-cigs. This is especially true if they're using those wimpy pen style devices you can get at the convenience store.
Given that not everyone who tries to switch to e-cigs succeeds, attempted quitters will
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Nor, had e-cigs not been a thing, they would have been smoking anyway, and the presence of e-cigs merely delayed the takeup of normals cigs (rather than being a gateway, as these sorts of studies tend to proclaim.)
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Modern devices utilize a much lower range of nicotine from 0-6mg/ml.
Errr modern devices don't "utilize" anything. Users chose what to inhale, they have since the infancy of vaping. That was one of the founding features.
If you go to Vapeclub.co.uk you have a choice of some 300 flavours with 20mg, over 20% of all of the product ranges on sale.
Cigarettes are bad, m'kay? (Score:4, Insightful)
Listen up, you younger Slashdotters: Don't start smoking. It's a filthy, smelly habit and nobody wants to be around a smoker. Now nicotine is a pretty decent recreational drug, and if you're going to use it, vaping is how you want to go, but stay off it until you're fully grown. I don't know if it's true or not, but people used to say that if you smoked when you were young, it would stunt your growth, so just don't take a chance. And that applies to all recreational drugs. Wait until you're fully grown, then do as thou wilt.
Also, stay in school and always wear a rubber. And be nice to each other.
I'm glad we had this talk.
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Actually, I was surprised by just how not-great nicotine is. I had always heard about how addictive it was, etc. Come to find out, it's not that great of a drug. You get a little hit of pleasure but that's it. And the more you do, the less pleasure you get. I had thought such a formidable drug would be better. And the addiction part isn't really that hard to kick. You just have to want to quit.
One thing I did find, though, is that smoking and drinking go together like peanut butter and jelly. What
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Great advice, asshole. Now I'm expelled from school for wearing a rubber in class.
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You were also supposed to wear clothing. I'd say hope this helps, but I assume you're already on the list.
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An upgrade will fix it (Score:2)
When are F-Cigarettes coming out?
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When are F-Cigarettes coming out?
F-Cigarettes were the previous model, suffix is regressive. It's also conveniently an acronym; 'F' as in 'Fire' like real cigs use.
Looking forward to using the "C-Cigs??...Where??" come-back line after those come out.
D-Cigs...I'm sorry, just Nope.
B-Cigs reportedly do show some positive reactions among males in studies, however....
Strat
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suffix is regressive
Gah! *Prefix!*
Maybe AI can add an edit-post function to /.
Simply shocking (Score:3)
Wow! They figured out that using more of an addictive chemical makes you want the addictive chemical more? That is simply shocking.
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No your conclusion is non-sequitur. The story is about people switching to cigarettes. A typical cigarette is equivalent in nicotine to somewhere between the 12mg/mL and 18mg/mL vaping varieties. If we follow your logic then cigarette smokers would be switching en mass to vaping to get more of a hit.
This study showed its the other way around.
anti smoke nazis are ignorant (Score:2)
Nicotine is closely related to choline- a popular aid to mental performance. Users have discovered that it can help with memory and test performance in college. Nicotine is shown to reduce stress in various environments such as noisy factory settings. It is addictive in the same way that protein, caffeine and sweets are. In other words, it's a very mild craving and closely related to the stress of your lifestyle.
Yes, it is one of over 100 ingredients in cigarets that may be harmful in some sense. Neverthele
The fix is simple (Score:1)
Mixed messages (Score:4, Interesting)
Beyond the misleading choice not to baseline the high-nicotine vapors/smokers for prior smoking levels, I also find it curious that the study didn't track the youths' opinions on e-cigs vs cigarettes in terms of health/harm. Considering that over the past 5 years the "official" US government "message" has been that vaping is as, and sometimes more, dangerous than smoking cigarettes (obvious hogwash), I have found a lot of smokers who had switched to vaping (some, entirely, completely off cigarettes) go back to smoking "because the government says there is no difference." This would have been a useful data point to track, especially in a nanny-state like California where such mixed-messaging is too-often used as a governmental propaganda tool. That the researchers decided not to track a simple question of "WHY smoke?" is, to me, quite telling as to the purpose of the study, since that basic question would have shed a lot of light on actual causation (vs mere speculation).
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obvious hogwash
Most people said the same thing about the first studies that said Cigarettes are unhealthy.
News flash: doing new things to your body not previously extensively studied may have unintended consequences.
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While vaping likely cuts out a lot of the nasty substances you'd find in a standard cigarette (though for all I know it adds some new ones)... the end result is you're getting dosed with nicotine, and that alone has some negative health effects.
On the other hand, at least I don't have to smell you or see people tossing their cigarette butts everywhere, so please, if you're going to become a slave to a drug that is highly addictive and doesn't give much of a long-term high... vape.
You think (Score:2)
Re:No shit. (Score:5, Informative)
Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful [forbes.com]. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
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... but not particulary harmful.
That's only true in very low doses. You can easily overdose on it and die.
If you don't believe that, just go buy a box of nicotine patches and stick them all on your body at once, and see what happens...
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I got a really nasty rash.
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You can easily overdose on it and die.
That depends on your definition of "easily". You make it sound like this happens accidentally in some recognizable rate. You can chain smoke packs and not have much to worry about in terms of putting yourself in the hospital. It's not like alcohol. You might notice a racing pulse and nausea. In which case, stop...
No, you can't "easily" overdose on it [wikipedia.org] unless you mean "intentionally" overdose on it.
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There was a story about a woman that died for that very reason.
https://games.slashdot.org/sto... [slashdot.org]
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Re:No shit. (Score:5, Informative)
I mean, sure, just like an alcoholic is better off drinking light beer or spirits so they don't ingest so many empty calories.
That is not a very good analogy. To an alcoholic, it is the alcohol that is harmful. But to a smoker, it is not the nicotine that causes cancer and heart disease. It is the tar and other crap in the smoke. If you vape, you don't get that.
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Re: No shit. (Score:3)
Of course heâ(TM)s ignoring the addiction as the addiction itself is not particularly harmful. Vast majority of damage comes from the byproducts.
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Of course, nicotine causes anxiety and sleeping disorders, so it's not harmless either.
The only solution to that is to find something else to smoke that helps with anxiety and sleep. Lemme think... What could I smoke that would help with anxiety and sleep...
Of course, some people may find solutions that don't involve smoking at all, but what use are those?
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Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful [forbes.com]. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
From TFS:
"Teens who vape e-cigarettes with higher nicotine levels are more likely to start smoking conventional cigarettes soon after...43 percent of the students who'd used high-nicotine e-cigarettes said they were "frequent smokers" of traditional cigarettes six months later...
Seems you missed the main point being driven here.
Over 450,000 deaths per year in America and 7 million worldwide. Cigarettes are probably the most addictive product man has ever created. It continues to reign as the #1 cause of preventable death, and yet it is a legal product.
By comparison, anything else on the entire fucking planet is "not particularly harmful". And I think it's pretty clear that e-cigarettes aren't really doing a damn thing to prevent or deter the traditional product.
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The CDC says it is over 480,000 deaths in the U.S. for 2016. Now about banning the little brown refugees so the don't come and kill Americans, one must have a sense of priorities to be good little zenophobe.
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You can't hit the jingoistic sweet spot to get elected by railing against tobacco.
Re:No shit. (Score:4, Informative)
And I think it's pretty clear that e-cigarettes aren't really doing a damn thing to prevent or deter the traditional product.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I have switched from smoking to vaping (hate that term). I feel a lot better and can breathe more easily. I don't know about others, but personally a vaporizer has helped me completely quit smoking.
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Nicotine is not harmful but vaping appears to be https://newatlas.com/e-cigaret... [newatlas.com]
From the linked article:
I'm not saying that e-cigarettes are completely harmless; I assume they are not. But I do think they are less harmful than cigarettes, by quite a bit. It's a matter of harm-reduction not complete elimination.
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I suppose it's a question of degree-of-harm. Everyone knows that smoking is horrible for your health. Using a vaporizer is probably still bad, but not anywhere as horrible as smoking.
Not smoking or using any nicotine product is obviously better yet. But these people are chemically addicted, so reason only goes so far.
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Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful [forbes.com]. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
Nicotine addicts are much better off not using nicotine and if they vape to get there that is fine, but many are just permanently swapping which is not ideal.
I would not rely on an op-ed from Forbes. The effects and risks of nicotine, especially to the cardiovascular system are well known. [www.hsj.gr] The nicotine patch for Alzheimer's in that op-ed has been in and out of the news since 1999, but so far nothing has come of it.
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And? That doesn't mean that a person will go out and seek other sources of it when they already have a steady supply.
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So.... drug users that consume higher doses of their addictive drugs increase their drug consumption over time, not lower it.
And so who does this surprise? That's the nature of addiction!
I thought we were told that the intention of the nicotine-containing vapes was to try to wean the addicts off the stuff in a more public-friendly and medically-safe manner than reducing their cigarette consumption? Clearly they're just changing their form of addictive behavior, and in too many cases, increasing it.
There
Re:No shit. (Score:4, Insightful)
There ought to be a cap on the amount of nicotine in the vapes, and that cap should be lowered at a steady rate over a fixed number of years until it hits zero. We need to stop supporting these legalized addictive drug dealers as a permanent establishment and seek to shut down the addictive drug industry entirely in the foreseeable future.
"We" are not supporting this industry. Its customers are, because they value the product enough to spend money on it. You really think we should be legislating what vices people are allowed to have? That's been tried, you know. From Prohibition to the War on Drugs, it hasn't worked out very well and has not achieved the desired outcomes.
You gotta let people do what they want to do with their time and their bodies, even if you think it's bad for them. That's part of living in a free country. No one lives a perfect, harm-free life and that's okay. Just let people do their thing and give them help if they ask for it. If you want to give them information about the harmfulness of their actions, I think that's great and would support it. But legislation and the punishments that result from noncompliance are not the answer.
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Works as intended, not as publicly advertised.
Yes, indeed. I was coming at it from a public policy as advertised point of view. But I agree that the public rationale is not the true rationale for these policies.
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Fuck yeh! Also sports, driving, running too fast, candy and sex.
Yes, exactly. You can always find something that someone is doing that you think they ought not be doing.
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At least in the EU, they certainly wouldn't. The limitations on nicotine in cigarettes over here mean that you can have WAY, WAY higher nicotine levels in your vape than in a whole pack of cigs.
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