Australia To Ban Unvaccinated Children From Preschool (newscientist.com) 281
An anonymous reader quotes a report from New Scientist: No-jab, no play. So says the Australian Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, who has announced that unvaccinated children will be barred from attending preschools and daycare centers. Currently, 93 percent of Australian children receive the standard childhood vaccinations, including those for measles, mumps and rubella, but the government wants to lift this to 95 percent. This is the level required to stop the spread of infectious disease and to protect children who are too young to be immunized or cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. Childcare subsidies have been unavailable to the families of unvaccinated children since January 2016, and a version of the new "no jab, no play" policy is already in place in Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland. Other states and territories only exclude unvaccinated children from preschools during infectious disease outbreaks. The proposed policy is based on Victoria's model, which is the strictest. It requires all children attending childcare to be fully immunized, unless they have a medical exemption, such as a vaccine allergy.
GOOD. (Score:5, Insightful)
Wonderful. Good on ya, Australia. Outside of very uncommon medical situations, there is no damn reason for anything less than this. It's a goddamn embarrassment that there are fracking measles outbreaks in the 21st goddamn century, much less that they're getting larger and occurring with increased frequency.
Vaccines save lives. Full stop.
Re:GOOD. (Score:5, Insightful)
The best thing about this comment? It is both completely true and delightful idiot bait.
Come forth! Reveal your ignorance! Bask in your self-righteous stupidity! Expose your selfishness to the world!
Vaccines save lives. Are they perfect? NOTHING is perfect. But they're damn good.
Your risk of a SEVERE vaccine reaction is still FAR LESS than your risk of "rare" complications of the infections they protect against.
And just for disclosures sake, my child JUST got her MMR and chickenpox today. And it's a relief, since I actually have to worry about these diseases now, thanks to the jerkoffs raging about how they "don't work" or moaning about "adverse reactions."
You want an adverse reaction, you selfish bastards? How about pneumonia from measles? How about measles encephalitis or meningitis? How about sterility from mumps?
NONE of that happens with the vaccines. And if it wasn't for people like you (yes, you. You know exactly who you are) Measles and Mumps would be in the next best thing to the ash-heap of history.
Vaccines save lives. Even more importantly, they protect against profound injury and disability.
Get your damn kids vaccinated, cowards.
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Go on....
Dammit. Way to undermine your entire point.
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We need to do more to protect children's rights and not allow their parents to harm them or put them at unnecessary risk. Too many libertarian/conservative types are adamant that they should be able to do what they like to their children, but the child's rights should come first.
They get vaccines.
They get a good, secular education.
No genital mutilation, male or female.
Access to medical care, regardless of parent's religious beliefs (e.g. contraception, blood transfusions).
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They get a good, secular education.
And thats the problem right there. Public schools in a lot of places are not good, and they are only secular in that the religion they teach doesnt have a god.
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You are free to not be vaccinated, but please piss off somewhere that you cant endanger society.
It's questionable not vaccinating your kids, because competent scientific evidence shows that they are an order of magnitude safer than the risk of the diseases they are protecting agianst. When you frame it like that, non-vaccination is negligence and we legislate against other forms of child negligence.
Finally, no-one has ever said vaccines are 101% safe. There are risks and vaccine injury is real, but rare.
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Take a look at these pictures of polio survivors [google.com]. See the "rare" complications of surviving that disease? And who does pay for the treatment that those complications demand? Can you afford a lifetime of care for your child should they get paralysis from polio or brain damage from measles? How much cheaper (and safer) is a vaccine compared to that?
Nothing, even just stepping out your front door, is ever completely safe. We live in a dangerous world. Demanding that vaccines be 100 percent effective and 100
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Sorry, but fsck herd immunity. Is it good? Yes. Is it my decision if I want to participate? Hell, Yes!
Then get ready for the rest of society to be willing to exclude your kids, and not allow your kids to mingle with theirs at school. Their decision too, since there are a hell of a lot more of them than of you, they get to decide where their kids go and yours can't.
Re:GOOD. (Score:5, Insightful)
As a parent, I get how easy it is to be absolutely paralyzed by fear of $everyBadThingEver happening to your child. I still have no sympathy for those who subject their own children and everyone else's to the very real threat of deadly, preventable diseases because of thoroughly discredited nonsense.
You're not allowed to put uranium in your kid's lunchbox because you mistakenly believe it emits Healing Jesus Waves; you shouldn't be able to send your kid to school with (even the potential of) active measles virus because you mistakenly believe the not-mercury in vaccines is going to give her autism.
Your freedom to believe post-truth pseudoscience bullshit ends at the point where it endangers my child's safety.
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Re:GOOD. (Score:5, Informative)
You seem to be confusing vaccinations working with vaccinations providing complete immunity. Vaccinations work, in that they greatly reduce the chance of catching the disease. If more people are vaccinated the effectiveness is even greater per herd immunity.
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If it actually worked, only the unvaccinated kids would get infected .... but that is not the case.
Congratulations, you've noticed that vaccines do not protect 100% from infection. They are in fact less than 100% effective, but more than 0% effective.
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Yep, and to make it worse, Immunocompromised folks, HIV, Lukemia, and so on, won't necessarily have immune systems capable of using the learned immunity from the vaccine AND are quite likely to die from things like the flu. So they are even more dependent on herd immunity.
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It is less than 100% effective. That does not mean it doesn't work.
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Re:GOOD. (Score:5, Interesting)
Vaccines can be used to eradicate measles, we just haven't tried.
Vaccines have eradicated smallpox and are on the verge of eradicating polio (42 paralysis cases worldwide last year, so far this year we're running at 1/3 of last year at the same time, 3 vs 9 cases.)
In terms of eradication, smallpox had everything going for it: an effective cheap vaccine, no animal reservoir, obvious symptoms, and the political/social will to make it happen (because it was such a terrible disease.) By comparison, polio can circulate without obvious symptoms, making it hard to eradicate.
Measles eradication has everything going for it that smallpox did, except for the will. People who think measles vaccines are dangerous should campaign for measles eradication. Their children will get the vaccine, but their grandchildren and every later generation until human extinction will not.
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You mean in 50-100 years every REMAINING disease will be HIV-class. There's a very big difference.
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Please, for the love of all that is good in this world, just be trolling.
Re:GOOD. (Score:5, Funny)
Diseases are an eco-system like any other. How many times have we tried messing with an eco-system just to have whatever unwanted species we got rid of being replaced with something even worse (often rats).
What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this site is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
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That is so stupid and ignorant it simply takes my breath away.
Re:GOOD. (Score:4, Informative)
The "fatal car accidents" is not because people don't use a seat belt. It is because the seat belt DOES NOT WORK.
If it actually worked, only the un-seatbelted people would die .... but that is not the case.
I just looked up this citation yesterday, the classic study which explains exactly how seat belts work. Bohlin found that only the un-seatbelted people died in accidents below 60mph.
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I'm 100% sure that the GP doesn't understand how vaccines are supposed to work...
Re:GOOD. (Score:4, Insightful)
So how is Big Vax managing to hide all of the kids running around in polio braces? The walls full of iron lungs? All of the kids rendered sterile by mumps? All of the horrible pox scarring?
Measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, none of these are 'benign.' They're much more survivable, nowadays, due to much better palliative care, but it's also like saying that compound fractures or traumatic intestinal rupturing are 'benign' nowadays because they're not the instant death sentences they were a hundred years ago.
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You also have no authority of expose any of us to your poor decision. So on the same principle, we sentence you to exile or isolation.
Your freedom to swing your fist ends at my (and my children's) nose.
Excellent (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a great idea. I'm sad that kids with stupid parents cannot get into school, but it's not worth risking all of the other kids, especially those who cannot get the vaccine due to medical reasons.
Story links to ANTI-VACCINATION NETWORK (Score:5, Informative)
This is a great idea. I'm sad that kids with stupid parents cannot get into school
This is to do with day care for pre-schoolers, I don't think we are at the stage where we are going to stop kids attending school. Even the link in the above story to the Australian Anti-Vaccination Network --a link to the AVN ... FFS editors, how about here [vic.gov.au] instead?! --doesn't make that claim.
The Federal policy in force at the moment is the "no jab, no pay" policy, meaning that parents of unimmunised children are not eligible for childcare related tax rebates etc.
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This is to do with day care for pre-schoolers
That's the right policy because the important vaccinations must be given long before school age.
School, the vaccine for stupid (Score:2)
Ironically enough, the anti-vax crowd are the people most in need of education. This is basically prohibiting dumb people from going to school.
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Banning children of uneducated parent from school? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm unsure banning children of uneducated parent is the best course of action...
Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Interesting)
Around here kids are banned from school(primary and secondary) if they don't have up to date immunization records, or a reasonable reason to why they're not immunized(i.e. severe reactions). Considering the absolute shit that happened a few years back with multiple measles, mumps and rubella, not to mention whooping cough outbreaks, it's nothing but a good option.
If there'd been a chickenpox vaccine when I was a kid, I would have taken it. 2 weeks of absolute shit, and it nearly killed my one sister(who spent 6mo in ICU). All because some little shit stain and their parents decided that it was a good idea to have their kid out in public while infectious.
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Around here kids are banned from school(primary and secondary) if they don't have up to date immunization records, or a reasonable reason to why they're not immunized(i.e. severe reactions). Considering the absolute shit that happened a few years back with multiple measles, mumps and rubella, not to mention whooping cough outbreaks, it's nothing but a good option.
Having contracted whooping cough after herd immunity went away, about 8 years ago. I can say with authority that if you can do anything to avoid watching your child whoop, lose consciousness and die right before your eyes of an easily avoidable illness, you better do it. Because if you don't, you're complicit in their death.
Damn near killed me. and the whoops had a nasty tendency to happen when I was all alone. They hit whenyou are at the bottom of a breathing cycle, and the whole world actually turns ki
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What's happened? I actually agree with one of your posts! This is all very strange.
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All because some little shit stain and their parents decided that it was a good idea to have their kid out in public while infectious.
Is this speculation on your part, or do you know this for a fact?
Because chickenpox can be contagious before [cdc.gov] you show any symptom.
1. Chickenpox can sneak in without any symptoms. You may be contagious even before you know you have chickenpox. But, the time you are most contagious is probably the first few days after the "pox" appear.
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Thus you are irate, when it is possible, even probable, that nobody knew of the potential for infection.
Yes of course just like the other AC that spouts off shit and has no idea of what they're talking about. Never mind the big, huge, gigantic announcement, on the TV, radio, magazines, newspapers, pamphlets sent home with kids, warning notices stuck to doors stating that there was a chickenpox outbreak and if you had even the slightest belief that you were infected, had come in contact with someone who was infected(and developed symptoms later), and etc., etc., etc., you should not be out in public.
Hate to
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Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone [abc.net.au] has just been hammered for this.
The Paleo Diet [wikipedia.org] is alive and well here, pushed by a chef who somehow has become a dietary-science expert and made a mint from pushing books [sbs.com.au] that contain dangerous pseudo-diets.
We also seem to be very susceptible to charlatans spruiking special-cancer treatments that do nothing but give false hope, drain someone's bank account and leaves them dead quicker.
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"It's a lot of middle-class mothers who are totally convinced by the pseudo-science and rubbish"
You're being far more charitable than called for.
I think many of these parents fully understand the risks involved, but have chosen the selfish path.
If you shield your child from vaccinations you shield them from the low risk of vaccine related complications (which in rare cases can be very serious). Given the very low risk that your child will be exposed to the more serious diseases these vaccines protect again
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I think many of these parents fully understand the risks involved
You clearly haven't met these people. Here let me provide you a thought process:
"There is no risk of infection because
a) herd immunity,
b) my daughters diet of kale, avocado, and unicorn piss makes her immune,
c) you can never believe doctors as they are in the pockets of big pharma,
d) yes of course I know what big pharma means,
e) what do you mean I'm talking crap, you clearly don't understand. Maybe you should do a sugar detox because detoxing helps your brain and reduces the risk of cancer too.
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You can't deny nearly a fourth of the kids from education.
Why not? The Washington State education system is woefully underfunded. Cutting out 25% of the demand will bring the budget back into the black. Just tell the parents to home-school the little runny-nosed ankle biters.
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OK wait. So you're suggesting undereducated parents should be responsible for educating their children? There seems to be a flaw in your logic there.
Not to mention uneducated people tend to be on the lower end of the pay scale so a large portion of those parents will be working stupid hours for little pay in order to keep their kids fed already.. finding time to educate them as well is likely not going to be plausible.
So in 10 years you've got 25% of your youth population being uneducated, unsupervised an
Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Interesting)
You can't deny nearly a fourth of the kids from education. Of course the Republicans here want to do that since they're anti-science and support mandatory vaccinations.
Arrest the parents for child endangerment. The foster homes will get the kids vaccinated and they'll get an education. No reason to tolerate child abuse.
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Of course the Republicans here want to do that since they're anti-science and support mandatory vaccinations.
Make up your mind, are they anti-science or do they support mandatory vaccinations? Or did you throw in the anti-science as an unrelated insult?
Time for a court case (Score:2)
Suing the parents whose children not being vaccinated caused a measles (or worse) outbreak for the FULL costs of the medical treatment might help them get real.
bad precedent (Score:2)
My kid had the Chicken Pox 3 times. The first was a mild case from the vaccine, which is pretty normal. The second was an outbreak in his school, (all mild cases) caused by a child who received the vaccine. Again, this is somewhat normal with the live vaccine. The third was a full blown case of chicken pox because apparently he was one of the unlucky few that the vaccine didn't actually work for.
Given your statement I would be able to sue the school, parents of the kid who's vaccine caused dozens to get
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Seattle is the most educated city on the planet so of course we stand against vaccinations.
Ha ha, oh man. I needed a good laugh. You should really learn to use a search engine.
Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Interesting)
In my experience it's not necessarily uneducated parents. Uneducated parents, if they have access to a pediatrician, are apt to follow his or her advice. It's educated parents who question, and the miseducated ones question and come up with bad answers.
What we are looking at in the anti-vaxxer movement is Emersonian self-reliance run amok. We've succeeded in teaching a generation not to put blind trust in authority figures, but without an interest in STEM for its own sake and with limited critical thinking skills, they have no choice but to turn to alternative authorities, individuals who embody everything that should be feared in an authority: deviousness, venality and ruthlessness.
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> Since it's pre-school that's kind of irrelevant. It's a place to park children and a play group not a school.
I've seen some very good pre-schools working with normal kids to help socialize them in ways that modern, smaller families who keep changing neighborhoods find very difficult. I've also seen them do invaluable work with children with learning or physical disabilities, and with children whose parents are struggling to make ends meet and can't themselves provide the variety of supervised outings a
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As blunt instrument attempted social engineering goes it's mostly harmless.
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Because that's a bullshit straw man argument? They weren't pulled from the market because they never existed as separate vaccines anywhere in the world; http://www.hpsc.ie/A-Z/Vaccine... [www.hpsc.ie]
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The first measles vaccine (according to http://www.historyofvaccines.o... [historyofvaccines.org]) came in 1960, followed by the mumps and rubella vaccines later in the sixties, and then the first combination MMR vaccine in 1971....
I'm not sure where this page gets its information from, but I know for a fact (from my immunization records) that I was given three separate shots (administered the same day, mind you, but not a single shot containing a combination of the three vaccines) as a child, both for my initial vaccination (1973
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The same page you linked suggests the MMR came out 2 years prior to your initial vaccination and 11 years before your boosters. Are you /sure/ your immunization records are specific as to what needles were used and not just what you were immunized against? Who even has such a thing 44 years later...
Regardless, the window of MMR "trials" is 46 years vs maybe 2 years for 3x injections since Rubella vaccine was last "to market", so that article was a little overstated, but still "pulled from the market" is bul
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My vaccination card (which I do still have for some reason) lists the vaccinations separately while my son's lists a single MMR entry, and I do remember getting separate shots for my booster. As for why I didn't get the combined shot, it might have been a local government thing (vaccination schedules vary widely between counties/states/countries) or a cost thing (new drugs are typically more expensive than old ones). But they *were* administered on the same day...
I agree that "pulled from the market" is ove
Re:Banning children of uneducated parent from scho (Score:5, Interesting)
However, after educating myself on this specific topic, the only question I have is, "why pull the individual vaccines from the market if they work?"
Because nearly all parents are going to opt to vaccinate for measles, mumps AND rubella, and combining them means you give your kid two doses of vaccine instead of six.
Why not leave them as an option for parents who prefer that approach?
Because the market of parents who'd prefer to give their kids six vaccine doses rather than two is too small to profitably serve.
They took away the proven safe alternatives that had worked for decades.
Actually, that's not true. MMR was introduced in 1971, and by now has a much longer safety record than the individuals vaccines it replaces: Attenuvax (Measles, 1961), Mumpsvax (1967), and Meruvax (Rubella, 1969).
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Actually, that's not true. MMR was introduced in 1971, and by now has a much longer safety record than the individuals vaccines it replaces:
Cool. So where are the results of the drug trials comparing the effects and side effects of MMR to a control? You know, like they do with other drugs.
You can do a google scholar literature view for a "systematic review [google.com]" of controlled experiments, like you would with any other drug. You should confine your attention to high impact factor journals though.
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He won't because he's either a troll or an idiot.
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You could start with
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesaf... [cdc.gov]
which summarizes expected risks and links to some studies, published medical articles.
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Why not leave them as an option for parents who prefer that approach?
There are two classes of parents:
a) the classes who believe vaccines are evil big pharma propaganda. These people are not going to pick only one vaccine, especially because by selling them individually it's just another example of big pharma nickle and diming us.
b) parents who believe in vaccines, follow the schedule, realise that the kids need all three anyway, would likely not have a crying baby 6 times, but only twice, would rather not incur the cost of 6 vaccines but only 2.
The when the MMR vaccines wer
Ya know what? (Score:2)
Re:Ya know what? (Score:4, Insightful)
You a troll? This guy didn't say "I got mine screw you". He served the community by taking a risk and getting himself and his kids vaccinated. That's the exact opposite of "got mine screw you".
What he's saying is, "I contributed to the public safety at some small risk to myself and mine, SCREW the people too selfish and cowardly to do the same!"
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You a troll?
AC making a stupid post? I think the answer to your question is pretty much the Platonic ideal of "yes".
Pathetic (Score:5, Insightful)
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Wow, what planet do you live on?
On my planet I live in a place called America which has it's own completely independent government and there are lots of other countries too! There's a United Nations organization here made up of most nations but it does almost nothing aside from disperse aid. No rational person would call it a world government.
Also, we have people like you in our world too! Many of us call them bigots for claiming that helping the poor and dispossessed is bad because they're from countries t
it's != its (Score:2)
I see that the colonial education system is of its usual quality...
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A typo in an internet forum!? Thank God you were here to point it out! You sir have made a truely epic contribution not only to this conversation but have also furthered the cause of making idiots feel like they've contributed something meaningfull to a given conversation.
Good for you! You're super special and everyone likes you!
Great answer, thanks (Score:3)
Ok - so I'm anal about this... but for those of us who are, it does do terrible things to our ability to hear what is being said. So be kind to those of us who have this disability.
This is a great discussion of the need for provision
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-... [amazon.co.uk]
based on the old joke
“A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.
"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wild
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No rational person would call it a world government.
And no rational person has.
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Sigh.... I'm just going to cut and paste my comment above
A typo in an internet forum!? Thank God you were here to point it out! You sir have made a truely epic contribution not only to this conversation but have also furthered the cause of making idiots feel like they've contributed something meaningfull to a given conversation.
Good for you! You're super special and everyone likes you!
Critical thinking (Score:3, Interesting)
We might say that the parents who decide not to do the right thing are simply "dumb," or, as I called them, "*(!^*(&^!*%**'s." Time has taught me otherwise. In the US and elsewhere, many people aren't taught or don't remember basic scientific method. They have no idea what the difference is between doubting what they have been told, and actually engaging in critical, productive, thinking. STEM is important, but perhaps we should require those who can't handle it to take something more akin to STEM lite. Barring that, penalties for parents who refuse to take care of *OTHER PEOPLES CHILDREN* shouldn't be frowned upon. IMHO.
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hi. How did you find out about the allergy? Was it from the first vaccine in the schedule, through other testing, or does it run in the family?
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Public Education can do whatever the hell it wants (Score:2)
I homeschool my kids. I also vaccinate them.
I couldn't care less what requirements public education has, here or elsewhere. Just don't make me pay twice to educate my kids and stop letting local politicians be selfish bastards about public resources. The local park won't let a group of homeschooling parents setup a PE program w/o paying a $500/year annual fee for park permit....yet the public school kids get to throw everyone off part of the park during school hours.
At last! (Score:2)
I finally have an excuse to punch kids in the face at the local preschool playground! "Excuse me officer but does the school not have a policy of 'no jab, no play'?" At which point I know they'll see reason and begin punching the children too. ;)
This is actually simple (Score:3)
This is basic "social contract" stuff. Your part of the contract is that you expose your children to the very small risk that they will have an unfavourable reaction to being vaccinated. In return, you get to participate in all the things society provides: schooling, day care, playgrounds, theatres, etc.
I would never dream of forcing parents to vaccinate their children. But if that's their choice, they shouldn't get all the good stuff that goes along with fulfilling their part of the social contract, either.
In fact, I'd even go a step further. If it could be proved that somebody who had no choice about being vaccinated suffered because they were exposed directly or indirectly to a child whose parents chose not to vaccinate, those parents should be held legally responsible.
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That's not a bad idea, either.
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Yeah, I guess I underestimated the lack of sarcasm detection/humour among vaccination fanatics. My bad. Yours too apparently. Note to self: stay away from these threads.
I've been burned by that over and over here too, and you'd think I'd learn. But I'm just too addicted to sarcasm to stop using it on Internet forums.
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_Proven_ a non-issue.
Scandinavia has been mercury free for decades now. No change in autism rates compared to the rest of the world. Whatever it is, it isn't the mercury in vaccines.
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The only credible research I've seen showed a possible connection to intestinal bacteria getting out of control after vaccination in some young children, with the advice to simply spread the initial two dozen or so recommended vaccinations over a slightly longer period of time (I think it was 48 months), with prioritization given to highly infectious and deadly diseases (e.g. meningitis).
There are also a bunch of "non-medical" ingredients in some manufacturer's vaccines that are prescription drugs (statins,
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PArt of the problem seems to be that there are more and more vaccines for less and less serious illnesses but they're all going direct to the mandatory list. It would be more reasonable to have a core of well tested and understood vaccines that are required and then others that are suggested until they are better understood.
A good bright line test will be if it is in the core it shall be made available for free at the school given by a nurse on parental request. If it's not important enough to be made avail
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Sure, however people who repeat claims that have been disproven by tests in large populations (mercury preservatives in vaccines) are in _fact_ idiots.
Not methylmercury! Thimerosal. (Score:2)
Methyl mercury is very toxic.
Vaccines used thimerosal as a preservative, thimerosal is a different mercury compound.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
What's more, your "correction" to the previous person was for something he didn't say.
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Some people just don't know, or don't care to know the difference between methyl and ethyl groups.
Here's an experiment you can do at home.
Have a shot of wood alcohol. It will calm your nerves, permanently.
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If you want to argue from that direction, you also have to argue against mandatory education on the same grounds.
Drunk drinking? (Score:2)
I have the right to drive my car despite the chance I'll seriously injury someone else?
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You're granted the privilege of driving your car despite the chance you'll seriously injure someone else. Its not a right and can be taken away at any time (by revoking your drivers license) if there's reason to believe you are unfit to retain that privilege.
Assuming self driving cars continue improving at the rate they have been, in 50 years you may not be able to get the privilege of driving anymore outside of special circumstances (race car driver or something maybe?)
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Haha, I wouldn't want to know how many thousands of boring people those producers had to sift through to fill 40 minutes of airtime.
But to answer your points:
1) Personally after taking numerous shitty taxi trips from airports, I'd be glad if they just checked their ability to drive, forget their immigration status.
2) Yes, proper ones are, and yes, you can put someone's eye out. Or is removing someone's eye not a problem where you live?
3) Yes. They are classified as "less than lethal" weapons, but you can ge
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Australia is a nanny state, but not for any of the reasons you list. They mostly make perfect sense given Australia's environment.
In the meantime try buy a Kinder Surprise in the USA. I think it's actually easier to get kids to go out and buy heroin.
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It is possible a kid might come down with one of the diseases they are vaccinated for, but it will not spread very far or very fast. There will be many fewer total infections from the outbreak.
It's the difference between one or two kids get the disease and parents are reminded to keep their kid home if he gets a fever vs. close the school and half the kids get sick anyway.
Re: (Score:3)
hi.
Mortality is not the only useful measure here. It's great that fewer people die with or without vaccination, but there are impacts from being sick that are also useful to mitigate. In the worst cases, people can become permanently debilitated as a consequence of a disease that in others just caused a nasty rash. Another facto to consider, and this IMHO is compatible with the interest in military use for some diseases, is that if a big number of people gets sick at the same time, it is highly disruptive o
Re: (Score:2)
Because the vaccine is a few thousand times less likely to cause death or permanent disability.
Also, unlike contracting the disease, getting the vaccine doesn't risk giving it to several others before you (or they) even know you have it.
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously you're asking why one is different from the other? Someone who hasn't been vaccinated