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United Kingdom Medicine Science

DNA Confirms Cause of 1665 London's Great Plague (bbc.com) 77

Posted by EditorDavid from the all-fall-down dept.
Slashdot reader JThaddeus writes: The BBC reports that a 17th-century mass grave uncovered in London confirms the identity of the bacteria responsible for the Great Plague of 1665-1666. "Testing in Germany confirmed the presence of DNA from the Yersinia pestis bacterium -- the agent that causes bubonic plague -- rather than another pathogen." The grave contains approximately 3,500 skeletons... Teeth were removed from some of the skulls, and their pulp tested at the Max Planck Institute in Germany. Positive results were found in 5 of 20 individuals tested.
"To reassure anyone worried whether plague bacterium was released from the excavation work or scientific analysis, it doesn't survive in the ground," reports the BBC. The 3,500 graves represent roughly 3.5% of London's 100,000 victims of the Great Plague -- one-quarter of the city's entire population.
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DNA Confirms Cause of 1665 London's Great Plague More

DNA Confirms Cause of 1665 London's Great Plague

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  • Unearthed Plague (Score:5, Informative)

    by mentil ( 1748130 ) on Sunday September 11, 2016 @03:57AM (#52865085)

    The summary suggests that some "what terror have you unleashed?!" doomsday scenario could unfold with Yersinia Pestis being resurrected from extinction... but that's impossible. Yersinia Pestis still exists and causes about a dozen cases of bubonic plague annually, nowadays. It's easily treated with antibiotics, and those of European descent are thought to be resistant to it. If I recall my Wikipedia correctly.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      In addition to the antibiotics the bacteria culled the part of the population that weren't resistant enough to cope with it. This is why the earliest occurrences of the Black Death usually were worst while the subsequent were milder. Darwin at work.

    • It pops up in the "Four Corners" region of America"s southwest, every so often. It seems to hit the Navajo Nation semi-regularly.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Hognoxious ( 631665 )

      those of European descent are thought to be resistant to it.

      I thought it was about London?

      • Re:Unearthed Plague (Score:5, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 11, 2016 @06:46AM (#52865323)

        those of European descent are thought to be resistant to it.

        I thought it was about London?

        They're still European for another two years (and it's a rolling two years as it keeps not starting) only after that will they not be Europeans and any children they have at that point may not be immune to the plague unless they cover it in their negotiations - that's why it takes so long, there are a lot of issues like this to consider.

        • I thought the joke was about the comparative lack of native population in the area of London. Compared to, say, rural Scotland as the extreme case of the opposite.
          • Hmmm, spent much time in rural Scotland in the last couple of decades? Very cosmopolitan region. Maybe not so cosmopolitan as a large city, but more cosmopolitan than a housing estate in a medium-sized town.

    • Re:Unearthed Plague (Score:4, Informative)

      by ilguido ( 1704434 ) on Sunday September 11, 2016 @05:32AM (#52865231)
      Easily treated is bit of an understatement. A properly treated bubonic plague causes a risk of death of 10% according to wikipedia, and there is still the problem that symptoms appear in a few days after contagion, and death in 7-10 days from contagion, so it is critical an early diagnosis. Septicemic and pneumonic plague are even worse.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I love that - every piece of reassuring medical commentary should end with "If I recall my Wikipedia correctly".

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I love that - every piece of reassuring medical commentary should end with "If I recall my Wikipedia correctly".

        Not just medical comments, every authoritative sounding statement should end this way - and that's not just a suggestion, it's actually the law in 37 states. If I remember my Wikipedia correctly.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      It's easily treated with antibiotics, and those of European descent are thought to be resistant to it. If I recall my Wikipedia correctly.

      It is treatable by antibiotics but can still be bad if you wait too long. And there is no evidence that those of European descent have any greater resistance to it.

      At one point there was a paper which speculated that the CCR5 delta 32 mutation, a very rare mutation that exists and confers resistance/immunity to HIV, might have arisen as a selective response to the Black

    • It's easily treated with antibiotics, and those of European descent are thought to be resistant to it. If I recall my Wikipedia correctly.

      It is treatable by antibiotics but can still be bad if you wait too long. And there is no evidence that those of European descent have any greater resistance to it.

      At one point there was a paper which speculated that the CCR5 delta 32 mutation, a very rare mutation that exists and confers resistance/immunity to HIV, might have arisen as a selective response to the Black Death. But that was mere speculation, and it's not even been conclusively shown that having CCR5 delta 32 even helps you in the event you g

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rustl ( 49621 )
      I thought that Yersinia Pestis has been known to be the organism responsible for the plague for a long time, this confirms it. From memory the theory was that the black plague was caused by a strain that was much more virulent than the one normally found now.

      The article states that they have found bacterial DNA in 5 samples and are still looking for more to reassemble the genome of the plague bacterium so they can compare it to the current genome.

      • I thought that Yersinia Pestis has been known to be the organism responsible for the plague for a long time, this confirms it. From memory the theory was that the black plague was caused by a strain that was much more virulent than the one normally found now.

        The article states that they have found bacterial DNA in 5 samples and are still looking for more to reassemble the genome of the plague bacterium so they can compare it to the current genome.

        It's been shown that most of the plague variants alive today are descendants of the 1347 plague (the Black Death). The same goes for all the genomes we have from intermediate epidemics between 1348 and now, which will probably include the 1665 plague once the genomes are known. The big discovery is that there are almost no genetic differences between any of these strains. The strain that killed all those people in 1347 was basically the same strain you can find in prairie dogs in the American Southwest tod

  • dumb statement (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bloodhawk ( 813939 ) on Sunday September 11, 2016 @03:58AM (#52865087)
    The thing to reassure people of is the fact the bubonic plague is treatable now unlike back then not that it can't live in the ground as that is a fairly pointless reassurance as the bacteria is still very much alive and well in the world. It still occasionally raises its head with outbreaks and results in 100+ deaths a year.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z00L00K ( 682162 )

      I would still worry more about tuberculosis and anthrax than the bubonic plauge.

    • Not really dumb. That particular strain would be several centuries old - it potentially could be more unpleasant than the modern one.

  • At what point are we allowed to dig up graves?
    After 100 years? 200 years?
    There are some massive cemeteries near me on land that could be repurposed rather than wasted.

    • Re:At what point? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Hognoxious ( 631665 ) on Sunday September 11, 2016 @06:02AM (#52865257) Homepage Journal

      Whatever you do, never just move the headstones.

      • Re: At what point? (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Why not? That's how Link(Zelda) found one of the items he needed on his quest. He had to move many gravestones, if I remember Wikipedia correctly.

      • Whatever you do, never just move the headstones.

        Yeah that went well in Poltergeist.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Pax681 ( 1002592 )

      At what point are we allowed to dig up graves? After 100 years? 200 years? There are some massive cemeteries near me on land that could be repurposed rather than wasted.

      re-purpose them? that's some serious bollocks.. Here in Edinburgh, Scotland we STILL have "plague pits" as does EVERY town and city in Scotland.
      looking at Edinburgh you will see strange wee strips of land around the town and suburbs which are free ffrom housing and usually turned into gardens and fenced off.
      dog down far enough and you'll hit bone, lots of bone from dead people who died of the plague.
      These are NOT and never ill be dug up because....THE PLAGUE CAN LIE DORMANT FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS and whe

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by servies ( 301423 )

        Did you even read the article or the headline at all???

        "To reassure anyone worried whether plague bacterium was released from the excavation work or scientific analysis, it doesn't survive in the ground," reports the BBC.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Pax681 ( 1002592 )
          tell that to the City environment guys who shut us down quicker than Milo Yiannopolis shuts down a 3rd wave feminist!
          As I also mentioned... those same plague pits were also commonly used to typhus outbreak,smallpox, anthrax and any other mass lergy that happened.. everyone went into mass graves.
          Please feel free to phone the City of Edinburgh council Environment Dept to argue it out if you like.. +44 (0)131-200-2000 and ask them if it's ok to dig any areas of any of the plague pits in the city.... :-)

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by ledow ( 319597 )

            You're a moron:

            https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]

            "There are no records since 1981 of any person being infected as a result of disturbing soil for building or any other purpose." (35 years, and that's probably only because there were no records kept before that)

            "There is no evidence of any worker or member of the public being infected with anthrax as the results of development of brownfield sites including abattoirs and tanneries, areas traditionally associated with anthrax, or greenfield sites previously use

            • Not to deny your main point, but the chance of infection increases with the quantity of the infecting agent. Most people are unlikely to get sick inhaling a couple of anthrax spores, but eat a pint of them and you're toast.
              Anthrax can survive hundreds of years of dormancy. There's a documented example of 370 years here: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crossrail-work-stopped-after-human-bones-found-on-site-6759649.html [standard.co.uk]

            • You're a moron:
              https://www.gov.uk/government/... [www.gov.uk]

              Wrong country, moron.

              Also wrong argument. If you expect research or data to move a petty bureaucrat jobsworth, then you have no experience of the Real World.

              I've never had to deal with Auld Reekie's Council, but dealt with others in the past. The planning and building approvals departments are "an experience". And not a nice one. Plus, of course, if you don't follow their dictates, they'll let you build what you want, then send their boys round

      • Re:At what point? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by lxs ( 131946 ) on Sunday September 11, 2016 @06:56AM (#52865335)

        What's this obsession with old bones?

        The people are gone. Those who mourned them are gone. Burn the remains and let vegetation reclaim the minerals.

      • BTW it takes a special kind of cocksucker to want to dug up a grave, move bodies and build upon a grave site.

        Why? It's not like bones care where they're buried, or what's above ground either.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I think the "rule of thumb" in the UK at least is that you own your plot for 70 years after which it's fair game, although the habbit of being buryed with or next to your spouse and / or children presumably resets the clock.

      The historic practice was that when the graveyard got full the oldest plots would be dug up and the bones would be placed in the ossuary (typically a small stone "tomb" you still see in some old graveyards) When the ossuary was full the bones would be removed and burnt on a "Bone Pyre" w

      • I think the "rule of thumb" in the UK at least is that

        There is no "rule of thumb" for the UK.

        I'm not sure what the rules are in England and Wales. In Scotland, I believe that it's a matter of contract with whoever you lease the lair from. As long as your descendants continue to pay the ground rent on the lair, then it's safe from disturbance (barring errors). Stop paying, and if the ground has had enough time to decompose a body - which varies with latitude, altitude (temperature) and soil properties - the

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • No one alive remembers that person, and therefore there is no need to grieve, which is the only logical reason for having a grave site in the first place.

        Well there's also the preservation of pathogen DNA fragments for future scientists to dig up.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by antdude ( 79039 )

      Ditto. If I ever die, just recycle my body. Geez. No point of putting my dead body in the coffin to bury. Let nature do its work!

  • What about the other 75%? Is it a problem with the testing instrument or was there something else?
    • Or maybe, only 1 in 4 of the sub-fossils had adequate preservation of detectable bacterial fragments.

      Just for starters : they were looking at microbe fragments preserved in teeth - because these are some of the most decay-resistant bits of the entire body. But for 1665 I wouldn't be astonished if most people who went into the ground for any reason had either badly-eroded teeth (grit in bread) or badly-rotted teeth (caries), or just plain no teeth. If the enamel from a tooth had worn off in life to expose t

  • "The 3,500 graves represent roughly 3.5% of London's 100,000 victims of the Great Plague"

    If there were 100,000 victims, then 3,500 graves is *exactly* 3.5% of the total.

    Perhaps the author meant to say "The 3,500 graves represent 3.5% of London's estimated 100,000 victims of the Great Plague."

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