NASA Reconnects With 'Lost' STEREO-B Satellite (businessinsider.com) 107
NASA lost contact with its STEREO-B spacecraft twenty-two months ago during a routine 72-hour test. On Sunday, the spacecraft reconnected with NASA roughly 189 million miles away from Earth. While that would seem like a cause for celebration, "the very hard and scary work is just the beginning, says Stereo project scientist Joe Gurman, as the agency has to turn on the computer to learn more about the current state of the spacecraft -- a process that may make the craft lose contact with them again. Slashdot user bongey writes: NASA may have only two minutes or less to fix a STEREO-B satellite before the computer causes it to lose contact again. NASA lost contact with their STEREO-B satellite nearly twenty-two months ago when performing a routine test. NASA scientists are afraid to turn on the computer at this point because it may cause them to lose contact again. A more detailed technical summary can be found here. "We have something like two minutes between when STEREO-B receives the command to boot up one of its computers and when it starts doing what we don't want it to do," Gurman said. Business Insider writes, "Making matters worse, it takes about 20 seconds to send commands to the spacecraft -- a data rate that makes a dial-up modem seem lightning fast."
Re: Safe mode? (Score:4, Funny)
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Re: Safe mode? (Score:4, Funny)
They couldn't find the goddam recovery CD.
Isn't the recovery disc on voyager?
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No, its on Stereo A.
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I'm guessing that the throughput is slow enough that sending a command to the spacecraft takes 20 seconds of tx time - e.g. it might take 10 bytes to send a command and are getting a data rate of 4 bits per second.
Latency isn't as much of an issue in this case, as once they send the wake up command, they can have the other commands in flight on their way to the satellite, but it's going to stop listening and do something they don't want it to do ~2 minutes after it gets the wakeup command - likely due to a
Need to turn it on to find out what's going on (Score:2)
TFA quoted one of the NASA engineers "If we turn on the computer, which is the only way we can get insight into the current state of the spacecraft ... what got us into this mess in the first place could turn back on again."
It seems that in order to really know what commands to send, they first need to query some data from the computer. So something like:
Query the most interesting parameter. 20 seconds to rx the reply. (1:40 remaining)
Decide what to query at next. 10 seconds to think and decide. (1:30 rema
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Considering it's over 300 million kilometers away from earth, I doubt the scenario you and the GPs are describing can happen, considering it takes over 16 minutes for a signal to reach it ;)
The 20 seconds cited in TFS/TFA are most likely the result of the small bandwidth they can work with due to the computer not being booted up or something - because for example the "BIOS" can only receiver commands at 1kb/s or something.
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I suspect they know that the command(s) they want to send to avoid the problem take longer to receive (due to bandwidth limitations) than it will take for the problem to recur.
Darn.
Yeah, I interpreted it wrong (Score:2)
You're right. I interpreted that "20 seconds" as meaning 20 seconds delay. That would indicate a distance about 12-13 times as far as the moon. As you mentioned, the craft is actually roughly on the opposite side of earth's orbit, near where the earth will be in 5-6 months. That's a much further distance, about 16 minutes at the speed of light.
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You're right. I interpreted that "20 seconds" as meaning 20 seconds delay. That would indicate a distance about 12-13 times as far as the moon. As you mentioned, the craft is actually roughly on the opposite side of earth's orbit, near where the earth will be in 5-6 months. That's a much further distance, about 16 minutes at the speed of light.
So let's just wait 5-6 months, when we'll be right up next to the satellite.
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But then it would collide with Earth, it will be too late. ;)
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WAIT MONTHS 4.9
MESSAGE PREPARE "Get out of the way!!"
TRANSMIT
427 Kbps max theoretical, but ILO at low power ... (Score:3)
> most likely the result of the small bandwidth they can work with due to the computer not being booted up or something - because for example the "BIOS" can only receiver commands at 1kb/s or something
That, or since it's low on power, the data rate is much lower than max. (That's to be expected, over long distances, lower power signals need to be slower.)
The transceiver is capable of up to 427 Kbps or 720 Kbps, depending on the source you read.
http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/im... [nasa.gov]
http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.g [nasa.gov]
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I wonder what it would be like running a CD mount on that IPMI...
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So, NASA, when can I expect my cheque?
Their cheque book is completely empty, will you take a check instead?
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Oh, how I miss RPN. balancing your checkbook was simplicity. Oh, wait...
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More likely, it takes about 20 seconds to boot up, at which point it runs the same routine that caused the problem in the first place.
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No, the article specifically says that after it boots they have approximately 2 minutes before it goes into a fault condition
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First bandwidth. It's probably decreased with distance, signal strength, etc. Even Barker code fails at some point.
Then distance, my friend. Unavoidable latency. Not going to be able to respond before the darned thing has gone awry.
And there was probably a failsafe startup, but *it* failed...
I feel sorry for them, but it's a teaching moment also.
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You are correct. 189 million miles (from TFA) is 17 light minutes. The STEREO satellites are positioned opposite Earth from the Sun http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.... [nasa.gov]
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I am impressed we can communicate with those sats so close in angle to the Sun. I would think the Sun would drown out the carrier frequencies and make locking onto the spacecraft's signals damn hard.
What a read. (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the kind of stuff that is truly exciting to an engineer interested in space. A satellite in an uncontrolled spin due to a bad inertial unit, without enough power in its batteries to transmit at full power, a network of deep space communications satellites colliding signals to create constructive interference to boost communications, a plan to point several radio telescopes towards it in the hope to hear something, sweeping the sky with different frequencies and if all else fails point the Hubble at it.
Combined with the short time window to make things work the only thing missing here is Matt Damon and you got yourself a summer blockbuster.
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Still not as difficult of a process as preventing the Windows 10 upgrade from auto
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a network of deep space communications satellites colliding signals to create constructive interference to boost communications
After reading the article, I don't think they were using spaceborne emitters to build the constructive interference around the satellite location, but only ground based stations.
The amount of timing precision required to trigger long-distance emitters and get this coherence would have been amazing. Doing so on the ground is still great but nowhere as difficult.
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You're right. Did a bit more reading beyond the initial scan of the article. I think the project title threw me :-) But their JPL site has some awesome pictures of ground based radio antennas.
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Wouldn't Sandra Bullock make more sense for the specific environment? Though I have to say George Clooney was a far more likable character in that movie.
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Sandra bullock saved herself with little to no help from NASA. It takes a Matt Damon to kick off a ground based attempt at rescue, and frankly we're much more like to spend money on him [etonline.com]
Sandra Bullock would get killed by the next presidential funding cuts. Matt Damon is priceless.
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That article was awesome. The Interstellar description needs some kind of damages line though...for all the damage he caused to the ship by being an idiot. :)
Re:What a read. (Score:4, Insightful)
Tractor beam? Let's just get back to spending our funds on calling in wizards to do magic incantations.
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Any sufficiently advanced technology... you get the idea.
Given how we've already demonstrated the ability to manipulate an object in a controlled manner with a carefully formed sonic wave, combined with the fact that light is actually a particle that exerts force on things, is it truly inconceivable that we will one day we can figure out how to manipulate something from a distance?
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Yes, it is inconceivable to anyone who knows basic Physics. Just because X is possible doesn't make Y possible.
Said by every physicist ever. Don't you know physics? Light is a particle not a wave! Gravity waves exist, wait no they are impossible, woopse turns out someone discovered them and I was right in the first place (though Einstein didn't live to change his mind a second time).
I know basic physics, that's why I don't discount anything as being physically impossible.
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Re: What a read. (Score:1)
We've already demonstrated manipulating things with beams of light, called optical tweezers. But small things, with strong sources of light in a specially shaped beam. And there are fundamental limits to how far the beams can go for a given source size that is rather incomparable with something AUs away and our sources being smaller than Earth.
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Re: What a read. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're excited by this, it means you're a loser and need to get out more.
Says someone who spends his spare time anonymously insulting people on the internet?
Man up, NASA. (Score:3)
NASA lost contact with their STEREO-B satellite nearly twenty-two months ago when performing a routine test. NASA scientists are afraid to turn on the computer at this point because it may cause them to lose contact again.
What's the point of being able to talk to it if they can't turn it on and actually do stuff with it?
If they thought they lost it 22 months ago, they have nothing further to lose if it goes away again now.
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So that $50 you found down the back of the couch, you're going to give to me right? Since you already lost it anyway, you have nothing to lose...
False comparison.
This is like NASA found the $50 but is scared that if they leave the house to go shopping the money might fall out of their pocket and be gone again.
If they don't leave the house they can't spend it -- so it's worthless, except to say "look, I have a $50 bill here at the house".
If they leave the house, they might get $50 in goods -- or they might lose the money like they think. But they at least have a chance to use the money.
Re:Man up, NASA. (Score:4, Funny)
What's the point of being able to talk to it if they can't turn it on and actually do stuff with it?
Hmmm. Are you talking about the satellite at this point, or the inability for Slashdotters to seal the deal with women?
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You really don't have to turn them on. Common mistake. Satellites work as designed.
Re:Man up, NASA. (Score:5, Informative)
NASA lost contact with their STEREO-B satellite nearly twenty-two months ago when performing a routine test. NASA scientists are afraid to turn on the computer at this point because it may cause them to lose contact again.
What's the point of being able to talk to it if they can't turn it on and actually do stuff with it?
If they thought they lost it 22 months ago, they have nothing further to lose if it goes away again now.
Reading the article helps determine what the point is...
Seems the point is that they want to try to see if there is something they can do to point the satellite at the Sun in the 1 to 2 minutes they think they might have before the startup of the computer drains the battery and they have to wait another 6 months until the battery randomly charges up as it gets sunlight on its solar panels at the wrong angles. The sensor that keeps the satellite pointed at the sun failed, but maybe they can keep it pointed at the sun by sending commands from Earth and then they can better assess the health of the systems with more time.
Based on the article its seems they might have just enough time to give it some commands to point toward the sun and then hopefully the battery starts charging up again so they have more time to work with before it powers down.
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To be fair the article summary above makes it sound like a computer glitch, so if you just went with the slashdot summary and quote I can understand the confusion. From the article it indicated that there was a sensor malfunction (not necessarily a computer malfunction) which means it couldn't autonomously point itself at the sun anymore. Leading to the solar panels not getting enough direct sunlight and thus draining the battery. The computer startup just means it will then consume power more quickly th
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Haven't people learned to not fucking well do that by now? I mean the site has been going for what - nearly 20 years. There are account holders out there who're legally able to buy booze - drugs in some countries - and who were born after the site was set up. And still there are people fucking stupid enough to only read half TFS and none of TFA.
People wonder why many western nations have problems getting appropriate technical staff, and then they behav
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Actually one of the first command sequences could be
SET IMU_A_INPUT_MASK #IGNORE // before the main cpu causes the shutdown timer to
SET MAIN_CPU_STATUS #HALT
EXECUTE SYSTEM STATUS DUMP
SET SYSTEM_MODE #STANDBY
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What's the point of being able to talk to it if they can't turn it on and actually do stuff with it?
What's the point of being able to boot your computer to Safemode? Think of this as the scenario they are in at the moment. Everytime they boot windows once the bootup process finishes some process starts and goes horribly wrong. They are currently in safe mode so they can do a bit of digging, and they know the computer is still working. They key now is to understand how to boot it up in a way that they regain control.
If they thought they lost it 22 months ago, they have nothing further to lose if it goes away again now.
That's not how scientific instruments work. They lose repeatedly for every moment that some
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PLEASE at least TRY to understand something before you offer negative comments.
Any possibility of recovering a valuable satellite is totally valid with me; and NASA too.
Yet, to satisfy your ire, you can be sure there will no attempt to salvage you when you stop communicating. BTW: When can we expect that?
NASA's web "programmer" needs to be fired (Score:1)
With no javascript the page is black-on-black. Congrats for leading edge tech.
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NASA's STALKING web "programmer" needs to be fired (Score:1)
View the page source. It seems that stalking analytics code from iPerceptions and Google is the reason their forcing Javascript use.
https://www.google.com/analyti... [google.com]
Commands turning satellite computer on (Score:4, Funny)
F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2 F2
Dammit!
The fools! (Score:2)
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News For Nerds? (Score:3)
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Turn in your nerd card. Thanks for playing.
Confused. (Score:2)
Can't they just switch it to "Stereo A"? I mean even my A/V receiver at home has that switch.
Solar studies essential, for Climate and more. (Score:5, Insightful)
You have to be trolling.
Knowledge of what the Sun is doing is essential for anything we do in space, including studying the weather and climate, because solar radiation is dangerous to equipment as well as people. And down here on earth - someday there is going to be a solar storm such as happened in 1859, which set telegraph cables sparking across the planet. Today, such a thing would fry our phone and electric systems if we can't predict it with the certainty needed to, literally, shut down and disconnect our electricity and copper communication networks while it passes by.
And of course, while it is CO and methane that are driving climate change, the heat it traps comes from the Sun, so good knowledge of what the Sun is doing is needed to understand our measurements of temperature.
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There is no burning on the sun, you kind of need Oxygen for that.
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The quality of the trolls has decreased precipitiously. The classic trolls of yesteryear have devolved to puerile memes flung about as a chimp with their feces.