Online Drug Sales Triple After Silk Road Closure, Says Report (nbcnews.com) 95
The closure of Silk Road -- a marketplace where internet users could purchase drugs and other illegal goods -- in 2013 has had little to no effect on drug sales. According to a new report from RAND, online drug sales have tripled since the site was shut down. NBC News reports: "Since then, an estimated 50 'cryptomarkets and vendor shops where vendors and buyers find each other anonymously to trade illegal drugs, new psychoactive substances, prescription drugs and other goods and services,' have emerged to fill the void, according to the report. The research, which was commissioned by the Netherlands Ministry of Security and Justice, examined data from January and found dealers in the United States had the largest market share with 35.9 percent, followed by the United Kingdom at 16.1 percent and Australia at 10.6 percent. Marijuana was the top seller in January, accounting for 33 percent of illicit drug sales online, followed by prescription medication at 19 percent and stimulants at 18 percent."
Markets Work, Bitches (Score:1)
People on various sides of various issues try not to believe it, would like not to believe it, but Markets Work. You can't stop them just by making rules against them, not without insanely powerful enforcement mechanisms..., and usually not even then.
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People on various sides of various issues try not to believe it, would like not to believe it, but Markets Work. You can't stop them just by making rules against them, not without insanely powerful enforcement mechanisms..., and usually not even then.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to describe the demand driven by physical and psychological addiction.
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the rich are terribly addicted to power and control of fellow man.
I'd like to see a war on rich sociopaths. humanity would move up several degrees if we redistributed the weath these assholes are hoarding.
the middle and lower classes don't have life as good and so they endulge in things that numb the pain of life.
don't blame them. blame the ones who perpetually insist on having a lower class, and pushing us all down there, more and more over time.
there are many wars in classist societies. the war on 'dru
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Only due to market reasons. The void was quickly filled by new assholes.
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I second that.
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Fascinating. Forced to sleep on the couch and now spreading hate?
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You know, I should really get that cough looked at. But anyways, if you end up doing zany things that put sand in the system and not violent things there is more potential for change. Imagine if there was a flashmob that said a word, phrase or sentence like say "public domain" or "Hobbes' philosophy". That's one example.
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Redistributing wealth doesn't create resources.
If we all got $1M USD tomorrow, the inflation would be... unprecedented.
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Something like this has been tried, with some rather amazing results. Basically what Wörgl (a community in Austria) did during the depression was to pay its workers in scrip, which lost a percent of its value per month. In other words, you WANTED to spend that money, because of a very obvious inflation of 1% a month. People were quite eager to keep the money in circulation.
Of course the national bank could not have such heresy and put a lid onto this after just over a year.
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Redistributing wealth doesn't create resources.
No, but it takes power away from the cunts who abuse it.
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Redistributing wealth doesn't create resources.
No, but it takes power away from the cunts who abuse it.
And lets new cunts abuse it in new, unpredictable, ways. Part of the beauty of "the establishment" is that they have established predicted patterns of behavior - it's not the best imaginable scenario, but it's certainly easy to imagine worse ones.
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So, your reasoning is--don't try to fix things, better the devil you know?
No, do try to fix things, but often better the devil you know than simple unknown chaos.
I'd be in favor of basic income, sufficient per-capita to afford rent and food in the boonies, and abolish all the special crawl up your business requirements of disability and need based government assistance. Every citizen starts with a monthly check they can use for whatever needs, vices, etc. they choose. Money earned on top of that is tax free to a point somewhere above poverty, whatever that is, and then taxed at
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In case you don't know it yet, the political "elite" is nothing but the muppet of the rich. Why punch the Punch if you can punch his player?
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I don't question the accumulation of wealth any more than I question copyright. They both have their right to exist, but they should exist in moderation, and in both cases we have left the area of sanity a while ago. Both are now giving a small group undeserved benefits while the majority suffers from it.
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People on various sides of various issues try not to believe it, would like not to believe it, but Markets Work. You can't stop them just by making rules against them, not without insanely powerful enforcement mechanisms..., and usually not even then.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to describe the demand driven by physical and psychological addiction.
Well, markets don't care what drives the demand. I think that's kind of the OP's point.
Re: Markets Work, Bitches (Score:2, Insightful)
Depends what the problems are with the addiction. Tabacco is addictive but legal and it causes all kinds of health issues over time. Addiction alone isn't the reason drugs are illegal. Alcohol's acceptance in western society is probably the greatest of hypocrisies I can think of as proof.
Alcohol is a substantial factor in crime, mostly violent crime. There is also the risk of traffic crashes associated with its consumption.
One of the main reasons to have some substances illegal is probably religion. The alt
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You assume that everyone buying from these sites is addicted.
That is not the case. Many people just want a something to relax on the weekend that they cannot legally obtain because of prohibition.
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You don't have to be addicted to drugs to want to buy drugs...
Drugs can be a very inexpensive vacation for a couple of days.
The problem is when it starts to interfere with other's lives.
But even then, I am not sure I would call it a bad thing necessarily.
People are addicted to all kinds of things and no matter what it is (exercising, world of warcraft, kids, etc) it will incur a cost on others. It is just that we are conditioned to accept the cost for some "addictions" and not others.
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People on various sides of various issues try not to believe it, would like not to believe it, but Markets Work. You can't stop them just by making rules against them, not without insanely powerful enforcement mechanisms..., and usually not even then.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to describe the demand driven by physical and psychological addiction.
Except that this has nothing to do with the argument. Markets work because people demand goods, period. Their motivation for the desire is completely irrelevant. It is a fundamental principle of economics that we always want as much of a good as we can consume. Why we want it doesn't matter. You might argue that these types of drugs, driven by addiction are not actually a good, but are in fact a bad. The behavior of these markets would demonstrate otherwise.
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People on various sides of various issues try not to believe it, would like not to believe it, but Markets Work. You can't stop them just by making rules against them, not without insanely powerful enforcement mechanisms..., and usually not even then.
Well, that's certainly one creative way to describe the demand driven by physical and psychological addiction.
Except that this has nothing to do with the argument. Markets work because people demand goods, period. Their motivation for the desire is completely irrelevant. It is a fundamental principle of economics that we always want as much of a good as we can consume. Why we want it doesn't matter.
Bullshit. If that last statement were even remotely true, cigarette companies wouldn't have spent millions in R&D over the last half century to ensure their product is designed to maximize addiction. They sure as hell haven't spent millions to ensure cigarette smoke tastes like chocolate.
You might argue that these types of drugs, driven by addiction are not actually a good, but are in fact a bad. The behavior of these markets would demonstrate otherwise.
Uh, might argue? There's little arguing the end result of using crystal meth. Or crack cocaine. Or even a dependency to legal opiates. ALL tend to have a negative effect on the human body, and ALL are highly addic
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"There's little arguing the end result of using crystal meth. "
uh oh, better tell all the parents of children and adults living with ADHD who take this as a medication. (i've done both extensively, there is really no difference between meth and adderall/dexadrine).
really??? (Score:2)
The other drug problem (Score:2)
Wait until the retired start using the dark web to get prescriptions filled from 'virtual Mexico' nationwide.
Re:The other drug problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait until the retired start using the dark web to get prescriptions filled from 'virtual Mexico' nationwide.
They already are. Short of doing that, go to Costco and you can get medication at pretty fair prices. Unless you're getting it for free or have a $5 co-pay, Costco is the way to go.
For example, a popular anti-cholesterol drug, Atorvastatin, at Rite-Aid is $255 for 90 pills. The same pills bought through Costco are $16.
If that's not price gouging, I don't know what is. They must be following the Martin Shkreli pricing plan.
Re:The other drug problem (Score:5, Interesting)
And atorvastatin is a generic, formerly Lipitor. The new monopolist strategy is to game the governmental restrictions on supply to raise the US prices for drugs which are generic worldwide. This was exactly Shkreli's strategy.
What's new is use of the dark web, heretofore the domain of meth dealers and hitman agencies. When the federosaurus fined Google half a billion dollars (yes, billion with a B) for the crime of letting Canadian pharmacies advertise low prices to US customers, they set the stage for this. Now that places like Sun City are filling up with the generation that grew up dealing on black markets for recreational drugs, it won't be long before the bridge club installs a Tor node.
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I pay $5 for a bottle of Atorvastatin at SVC. It's only a month's supply, but still.... not as cheap as CostCo, but still pretty damn inexpensive.
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I pay $5 for a bottle of Atorvastatin at SVC. It's only a month's supply, but still.... not as cheap as CostCo, but still pretty damn inexpensive.
That's a good price. What's SVC, and is that with a copay or their actual price?
Shocking! (Score:4, Insightful)
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But see, it makes them look like they're doing something.
"We're stopping drug trafficking. Just look at these sites that we've closed! But we need more money to continue to fight drug traffickers, because don't you want your kids to be safe?"
And hell, the RIAA doesn't want all movie piracy to go away. If it did, they'd have no justification for some of the shit that they pull. They just want the 'easy to acquire' piracy to go away.
Re:I guess Law are useless then (Score:5, Insightful)
perhaps we could just end prohibition and use the police and our government to pursue more productive endeavours?
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The only thing prohibition ever did was to create criminals and enable them to rise to power. You think Al Capone would have ever been more than a petty criminal without alcohol prohibition?
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You should also consider the flip side. Law enforcement and the private prison complex are another corollary from prohibition, and they are big money.
There's a lot of money to be made on either side of the fence with prohibition.
I would argue that both sides are cartels, and both sides seem to enjoy the war, it is very profitable.
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War is always profitable for those on top. It's those at the bottom that fight and die in it.
Shocking development (Score:3)
"According to a new report from RAND, online drug sales have tripled since the site was shut down. NBC News reports"
Who could have seen that coming? I mean, besides EVERYONE.
Marijuana prohibition is a farce (Score:5, Insightful)
It causes less deaths than tobacco and alcohol and prohibition of it is just another form of social control. The absurdity of the 'house of cards' that prohibits it has more negative effects on society than the plant has ever caused and that's before we start looking at the plethora of medical benefits it has.
Take marijuana off the black market and the funding for many other criminal operations will dry up.
Re:Marijuana prohibition is a farce (Score:5, Insightful)
Translation I want to smoke pot. Now let me rationalize it.
No need to rationalize it. People don't rationalize drinking beer, wine or spirits - they do it because they want to. Here is a rationalization for you, I like it, I laugh my ass off and I have a great time.
However as a painkiller that my doctor suggested for having a snapped achillies tendon it was a much better option than liver failure from the oral painkillers I was taking.
Legalize Pot and all other crimes will stop because Pot funds them.
Why are you or anyone else qualified to make value judgements about peoples choices that have no impact on you.
It makes so much money, they FUND other crime. That could all be tax money, deficit solved Thank you.
What it does is criminalizes a lot of people that should not be exposed to the prison system. If you can, for a moment step out of your prejudice and ask yourself if the pot someone is smoking will do them more harm in ten years than a two year prison term will do, six months into it?
Or how much policing for violent crimes a police officer can do if they are not writing up a pot arrest for 3 hours in the station? How much time is taken up in the court system dealing with cases, how many prison officers have to be hired to guard them?
What does it say about a society that has social controls for a plant that has been with humanity for so long that there are receptors in our brain for Cannabinoids?
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Non-smoker here, mostly because for some odd reason that stuff doesn't work on me. But frankly, why should that be illegal and alcohol is legal?
A court around here was tasked with answering this question and their verdict (I kid you not) was that "Alcohol is not consumed for its intoxicating properties". A German comedian quipped: "I had to think this over with a couple beer or a few dozen, and the next day I was enlightened: People obviously don't drink to get wasted, so they must do it for the nice head t
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I could *maybe* see where they were coming from if alcohol was only beer, wine, mead, cider, etc. But how would that explain hard liquor? I am pretty sure that nobody would drink anything over 30 proof for the taste...
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Actually, it causes less death, pain and suffering and economic damage than fat and sugar, two completely uncontrolled substances. There is no rationality behind the "war on drugs", just a deep and repulsive desire to control others.
Re:Marijuana prohibition is a farce (Score:4, Interesting)
Your "freedom" stops at others' freedom
Your freedom stops where someone else's begins. You have no right
from your potentially reckless and harmful behaviour under the influence.
You mean like drunk people? Here is the science what drugs cause what harm [economist.com]
Pot gets you high much more easily than alcohol gets you drunk
citation please
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"citation please"
I like sausages!
Then how would you like it if you were told it was illegal to eat them.
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I am somewhat of a professional drinker and I still get tipsy off of 2 American lagers. Anything beyond that is getting drunk...
On the other hand, when I have smoked pot in the past with any regularity, my tolerance for it goes way up and I have to smoke exponentially more in order to achieve the same effect.
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Take marijuana off the black market and the funding for many other criminal operations will dry up.
I wonder to what extent this is true, I would think that the money lies in powdered drugs like cocaine and heroin. It's very common for suppliers to cut their product to increase profit. You can't really do that with marijuana unless you do something like spray it with sugar water. It's also incredibly easy to grow a plant in a small space with mail-order seeds, you can't do that with a lot of other recreational drugs.
I think these dark markets are a great development as they take away the risk of viole
well.. (Score:3, Insightful)
the people who are "fighting" the "war on drugs" don't actually want to "win"
Think about it
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Can you name one "war on ..." that was actually meant to be won?
But Nancy Reagan ... (Score:1)
Can Kill the Website But Can't Kill the Idea (Score:2)
You can kill Silk Road, but you can't kill the IDEA of Silk Road. That's the real reason for the increase. Once people learn about the 'dark web' and how to use bitcoins to buy stuff on it, shutting down an individual site doesn't matter much, and every shutdown gets major publicity which turns more people on to the dark web.
The actual cause of ALL of this (Score:2)
Re:The actual cause of ALL of this (Score:4, Insightful)
So what's your address. I'll anonymously send you a free sample by mail. Boy are you going to have fun when they execute that no knock warrant!
The real problem is that everything that touches money smells like drugs these days. They'll be ripping open birthday cards to grandkids all day long.
The other problem is they would catch far too many of the wrong drug users. Wall Street and Hollywood would be empty wastelands, for example.
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Why the hell are they not doing this for drugs?!
For the same reason they're still carrying junk mail even though it's destructive to the environment upon which we all depend. If they stop it, they will go out of business. Do you have any idea how many tons of drugs are in the mail at any given time? That's a lot of revenue.
Drug Prohibition Addiction (Score:1)
While much less than 1% of the (at least American) population abuses "illicit" drugs (at least according to consistent U.S. government usage statistics combined with the Institute of Medicine's dependency rates table), literally millions of non-violent (so sanely innocent) lives have been demonstrably ruined to varying degrees (including horrific and even deadly ones) by Certain Drug Prohibition (if you will) – the 'bigger and badder' sequel to Alcohol Prohibition, which "mysteriously" required a fede
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While much less than 1% of the (at least American) population abuses "illicit" drugs (at least according to consistent U.S. government usage statistics combined with the Institute of Medicine's dependency rates table)
HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAH
Marijuana is an "illicit" drug and vastly more than 1% of the population of the US is using it. The rest of your comment is surely as ignorant, so I shall skip it. FYI, over ten percent of Americans admit to using it "regularly", and that's just the group that's willing to say it in a survey. You have literally no idea what you are on about. Unless you actually meant to use "abuse" in the real sense, and not the bullshit legal PR sense... which I doubt
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Use is distinct from abuse.
In addition to literally no experimental science confirming the contrary (you pathetic jackass), even the Controlled Substances Act (your terrible reply suggests that you probably don't even know what that is, so it's basically the judicial basis for Certain Drug Prohibition) confirms that distinction by stating the most dangerous drugs have a "high potential for abuse".
Everything I carefully wrote is factual, but your hideous reply is the kind of brainless nonsense pressed into y
Prohibition is a failed policy (Score:2)
uh, yeah (Score:2)
Well... (Score:2)
The best way to reduce profits and insentive from drug sales? Legalize them, regulate them, and sell them like nicotine and alcohol.
Druglords can't compete with Walmart and thousands of liquor stores....
Routing round failures and blockages (Score:2)
Just as the internet does, the drug trade routes round blockages. Fail to provide a legal alternative that is at least as convenient and inexpensive as the $300bn/yr worldwide industry run by organised crime, and, de facto, you give them a monopoly in a lucrative business. Only a safe, convenient legal alternative can deprive them of that market, aside from possibly a worldwide police state on a scale that would make 1984 look like a teddy bears' tea party.