In Search Of A Healthy Gut, One Man Turned To An Extreme DIY Fecal Transplant (theverge.com) 136
Josiah Zayner writes: Arielle Duhaime-Ross at The Verge followed Dr. Josiah Zayner, a former Scientist at NASA turned BioHacker, as he attempted the first ever full-body microbiome transplant. She writes "Over the course of the next four days, Zayner would attempt to eradicate the trillions of microbes that lived on and inside his body -- organisms that helped him digest food, produce vitamins and enzymes, and protected his body from other, more dangerous bacteria. Ruthlessly and methodically, he would try to render himself into a biological blank slate. Then, he would inoculate himself with a friend's microbes -- a procedure he refers to as a 'microbiome transplant.'".
Um, why? (Score:1)
There are other ways to adjust the bacteria present, such as through diet. Furthermore, eliminating bacteria that ward off other, harmful, microbes seems dangerous. Why would you do this? I suspect this can be filed alongside things like very low calorie intake diets as a way to do some really serious harm to your body.
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> There are other ways to adjust the bacteria present, such as through diet
Probably not in the way he is attempting. It's almost like you don't understand what he's doing and suggesting an alternative course that is ineffectual out of obvious ignorance.
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Re:Um, why? (Score:5, Informative)
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The probiotics can help people but they are far from complete. We don't even know the full composition of the gut microbiome.
I'm not sure why he pushed it as far as he did, but the procedure he did on his gut is gaining acceptance in spite of the FDA rushing in to put the brakes on progress.
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If probiotics really contained bacteria that could survive in our gut and make us healthier, we would just need to take one single dose and the company would not make any money on them.
So instead, I suspect they contain bacteria that may provide some short term benificial effects, but are not really suited for our gut and disappear shortly afterwards. That way, you need to take them repeatedly and keep spending money on them.
So if you want a healthy gut, probiotics are not the answer.
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Probiotics are typically a supplement, trying to boost established levels of a couple of specific strains. Wiping out his microbiome and replacing it with a couple of strains probably wouldn't be the best idea... He's trying to replace his microbiome with all the strains present from a healthy one.
While I can see this working I wonder how important the balance between each strain would be to replicate the healthy microbiome. After all, there is no guarantee on the numbers each strain will establish themselv
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Probiotics also come with disclaimers that their effects are unproven.
Re:Um, why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Probiotics contain nothing that resembles fecal bacteria. If they did, they'd be immediately removed from the shelves.
Probiotics are mostly a way to seperate people from their money.
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Depends on the priobiotic. But just because there are common strains of bacteria as that in the gut doesn't mean they would be pulled from the market. There is nothing wrong with consuming bacteria, we do it all the time. The problem is with specific species in specific quantities. Now the FDA isn't going to allow a probiotic on the market that contains salmonella, but lactobacillus they wouldn't care about nor should they, it's common in your gut and common in food you eat. There are several varieties of p
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There is actually research being done on this right now to find out if poop transplants can make people healthier.
It's entirely possible that these gut microbiomes affect far more than we realize.
Your gut flora adjusts to your diet—To them, it is the type of Manna that falls from heaven.
Fatties and gluttons who have diets that lead to morbid obesity have been on a consistent diet of CRAP for years. This is why 'crash diets' don't work.
One needs to slowly ramp their diet to a healthy one, while simultaneously dosing daily with a 'full-mix' macrobiotic. In the end, the 'good bacteria' win out over the others. It is a process – NOT an overnight transformation!
Oh, it also helps if you sel
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And yet there are documented cases where fecal transplants after microbiome-destroying procedures have radically changed someone's weight, despite no change in diet or exercise.
We are shockingly ignorant of how the body's metabolism actually works, largely due to people like you dismissing everything as a matter of diet and exercise.
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And yet there are documented cases where fecal transplants after microbiome-destroying procedures have radically changed someone's weight, despite no change in diet or exercise.
I hope the documented cases you refer to aren't 'Scheisse porn' videos. :-P
Anyway, agreed, we know very little. Humans are superorganisms. Most of the cells in our bodies are NOT our own. IIRC, a human body has about 10 trillion cells. 90% of those cells do not contain our DNA — They are symbiotes.
Going back even further, it is generally hypothesized that organelles in our own cells arose from this symbiosis. But, over eons, in mono-cellular organisms, some of these symbiotes lost their ability t
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To all who have replied: You are in agreement with me, but failed at reading comprehension:
Sir Holo said:"... while simultaneously dosing daily with a 'full-mix' macrobiotic."
Perhaps I should have written 'full-spectrum' instead?
I was pointing out that our gut flora are a significant factor in our guts' response to, digestion of, and uptake of calories, vitamins, minerals, etc.
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Depends on the priobiotic.
It really doesn't. There's a reason that bacterial transplants are done surgically or anally. Just how much of that not so tasty hyper expensive milk do you think will survive through your stomach acid? It's like those people who ph balance their diet so their blood acidity is healthy without realising they are feeding a self regulating system through a means that doesn't touch the said system.
The number of bacteria which survive down to the gut through ingestion is not at all significant, and any that can'
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So does homeopathy and sugar pills.
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What were you eating instead, before you started eating probiotic yoghurt? One possible control for this experiment would be to sterilize the yogurt and see if it still helps.
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The experiment would still be valid; you're arguing that it would be superfluous.
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There are some problematic bacteria that live in the stomach, and they can cause problems if they are not kept in check by competition from "nicer" neighbors.
The bacteria that live in the lower GI tract are entirely different species. Pretty much nothing that lives in the extremely acidic environment of the stomach can thrive in the neutral environment of the intestines.
Consuming samples of bacteria that should grow in the throat or stomach is fine, and it may help. At the very least, it is not completely a
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Re:Um, why? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are other ways to adjust the bacteria present, such as through diet.
That worked for me. A few years ago I bought a $39 yogurt maker from Amazon, and started eating a bowl fresh from the incubator every morning. As my gut bacteria changed, so did my appetite. I no longer craved sugar or other carbs, and started eating more fiber and veggies. I guess the little critters were using some sort of chemical feedback to make me eat a diet more to their liking. I am about 5 pounds lighter, have more energy, and have had no gut problems (diarrhea, constipation, or pain) in years.
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As my gut bacteria changed, so did my appetite. I no longer craved sugar or other carbs, and started eating more fiber and veggies. I guess the little critters were using some sort of chemical feedback to make me eat a diet more to their liking. I am about 5 pounds lighter, have more energy, and have had no gut problems (diarrhea, constipation, or pain) in years.
Please tell us all, in excruciating detail, about the characteristics of you diarrhea, and how they changed over this process of yogurt-conversion.
You have our rapt attention.
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What was your breakfast before you started eating yoghurt?
If it included bread or other carbs then that might have something to do with this:
"I no longer craved sugar or other carbs, and started eating more fiber and veggies"
Also regarding that sentence, are you sure it wasn't the other way around? I'm not saying it is impossible that 'the little critters were using some sort of chemical feedback', but misattribution and jumping to conclusions are common things in diet-related matters (diet-hacks are an alm
Re:Um, why? (Score:5, Informative)
Except that yoghurt is primarily made from yeast
No. This is wrong. Yogurt is made with bacteria. You can read all about it on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org], where the very first sentence explains that yogurt is made with bacterial fermentation.
any bacteria it has are very unlikely to be bacteria normally found in the gut.
Wrong again. Many of the bacteria commonly found in yogurt are also found in mammalian guts. Here is one example [wikipedia.org] but there are many others.
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Re:Um, why? (Score:5, Funny)
I had a doctor tell me to eat a lot of yogurt once, in order to replenish bacteria after having an antibiotic treatment.
That doctor is clearly in the pocket of Big Yogurt and cannot be trusted.
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Actually, the bacteria in yogurt were originally cultured from people putting milk in animal stomachs used as bladders to hold liquids. They are directly from mammalian stomachs. This is also where cheese comes from and probably almost every single dairy product other than plain milk.
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Actually, the bacteria in yogurt were originally cultured from people putting milk in animal stomachs used as bladders to hold liquids. They are directly from mammalian stomachs. This is also where cheese comes from and probably almost every single dairy product other than plain milk.
Yep. Animal bladders or 'sacs' were either dog food, or the perfect canteen for our paleolithic ancestors.
Someone let a batch sit too long in a cave, and discovered yogurt. Then later cheese, probably.
I mean, in the Stone Ages, people didn't just phone up Sigma-Aldrich for a "disinfected ruminant stomach number three", or whatever. It was a little less hygienic then.
That made me laugh. (Score:2)
Why was that? Poor cell phone connections?
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Be a bit more recent then stone age as our paleolithic ancestors wouldn't have been using animal milk.
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Many of the bacteria commonly found in yogurt are also found in mammalian guts
Which makes sense - milk is secreted from what are probably glorified sweat glands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammary_gland#Evolution), and many of the bacteria that thrive in milk are also found on skin. And of course, as a slightly light hearted aside, a human is basically a torus, as any topologist will confirm, so the gut is really just part of the same surface as the skin.
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Re:Um, why? (Score:4, Interesting)
You are probably right that the yogurt bacteria are not those usually found in the gut. But the presence of those bacteria may be beneficial in the gut flora due to being non harmful, while being competitive against other bacteria which are.
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Yogurt bacteria, lactobacillus and other strains are common in all mammalian stomachs. We would not be able to suckle on our mothers without it as it allows us to digest milk.
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I'm not going to the pub with you.
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Ya, I goofed. Long noisy work day.
fecal transplants may be faster and more effective (Score:3)
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Re:Um, why? (Score:4, Informative)
RTFA. He had tried diet alteration already. Though granted, probably not thoroughly given his somewhat casual proclivities. Not that I can blame him: chronic intestinal distress eats away at your willpower and mental acuity quite severely over time. It's very hard to stay rational with a constant worm in your stomach. I can totally sympathize with the level of desperation that drove him to this. So, if doctor's don't want us nearly-schizophrenic IBS-ravaged patients turning to crazy DYI procedures, getting this area of medicine more science and evidence should be a priority, rather than giving us diazepam-laced anti-cholergenic cocktails, probably an antidepressant, and telling us to "avoid stress" (hah!), essentially treating it as a purely neurological problem.
So a real shit eating grin (Score:3, Funny)
there, a poop joke
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That would be why he promptly replaced them with a new biome.
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Or that's my way of saying you need to step up your game.
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Or that's my way of saying you need to step up your game.
Are you saying your shit's the shit and his shit's just shit? Way to shit on the man...
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So do you. There are even legal limits on the amount in food, as there is for bug parts.
you eat shit once... (Score:1)
NASA or not, you are a shiteater for life /enjoy
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NASA or not, you are a shiteater for life /enjoy
Well, faeces is just a later stage in the natural development of food; any meal is, in a sense, pre-shit, a term that sometimes seems strangely appropriate.
Ron White (Score:2)
I read the article, says the experiment worked (Score:5, Insightful)
So unlike everybody who commented before me here (just ACs so far), I actually read what was written and apparently the experiment worked.
I've been running an experiment of my own for 21 years now. For the first 8 years only ate raw veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds. For the last 13 years eating cooked food, only veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds but also cheeses, yoghurt and some breads.
I think people should be free to experiment with their own bodies, we only live once. Some people climb rocks, others eat shit, who knows, maybe something will come out of it. I personally would like to go through the DNA procedure to increase the length of the telomeres like that lady in South America did, I don't want to wait for any government approval for any of it, it's my life.
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I don't want to wait for any government approval for any of it, it's my life.
That's fine, as long as neither government nor society in general are expected to cover the risk of that experiment going wrong. And that means if you ruin yourself and require $500K in medical expenses, that somehow healthcare prices are insulated from that event.
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Does that also apply to contact sports? How about skydiving?
Does it apply to driving?
Meanwhile, in this case, he may have saved healthcare a lot of money.
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Driving is a funny example. It's precisely the reason we have seatbelt laws. Sure, you can skip them, but you'll get fined -- generally a large enough fine to convince people who would otherwise roll the dice on not wearing a seatbelt to do so. So, we legislate lower shared medical (and municipal fire/police/ambulance) costs.
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Sure, we mandate mitigation but car accidents are still a common reason for unpayable medical bills.
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Well, unless you can point to a law requiring so much as a fine for feedling yourself poop, you've pretty much demonstrated why the legal conversation concerning this event should be over.
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"I think people should be free to experiment with their own bodies, we only live once."
I've died twice, maybe YOU only live once, mortal!
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That's just eating weird. Science isn't done by only observing yourself. After all your opinion is going to be colored by desired outcomes, confirmation biases, yada yada yada. Valid medical trials are done with double-blind placebos.
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Sure, but I am running an experiment on myself for my own sake, not for anybody else and I am not proposing that anybody follows me. My point is that we should be deciding what we are and what we do with ourselves, not any government or any other outside collective.
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Yep. Evolutionary biology, and also active adaptations of existing gut flora. Both come into play here.
Throughout our evolution into homo sapiens sapiens, our ancestors endured many varied and variously harsh environments. The result is that, today, we have a lot of "junk genes". LOL.
Junk genes they are not. Just because they are not expressed does not mean that they enable some metabolic capacity or other during times of resource-stress that our progenitors endured. Should we endure something differe
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That is, their primary caloric intake is ethanol -a simple sugar.
Ethanol isn't a sugar, it's an alcohol. It winds up on the citric acid cycle via a slightly meandering path.
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That is, their primary caloric intake is ethanol -a simple sugar.
Ethanol isn't a sugar, it's an alcohol. It winds up on the citric acid cycle via a slightly meandering path.
Is that because the second carbon lacks a carbonyl (C=O bond)?
If it did, with formula then C2H4O2 – instead of EtOH (C2H6O) – what would it be called? A monosaccharide, yes, but what is the nomenclature for monosaccharides? Would it be called "ethanose"?
I'm a solid-state physicist, so I never took a biochem course...
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Is that because the second carbon lacks a carbonyl (C=O bond)?
Ugh. Er, organic chemistry... it's been a while.
ethanol is a simple alcohol, i.e. an alkane (a simple hydrocarcobon) with an -OH bolted on to the end. Monosaccarides have one -OH attacked to every carbon atom except the last which has a carbonyl.
Going by that formula (i.e. a 2 carbon sugar) would look something like:
OH-C - C =0
(with of course all the other hydrogens omitted). Apparently it goes by the name 2-hydroxy acetyl aldehyde, diose (sugar
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Hold on, hold on, let me write this down, who do they sue once the food I choose to eat kills me?
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I personally would like to go through the DNA procedure to increase the length of the telomeres like that lady in South America did...
This lady? https://www.technologyreview.c... [technologyreview.com]
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He does not. And there is not even a need to be religious to believe in some form of reincarnation. Science is completely neutral (as in "we have no clue") on the question at this time, no matter what quasi-religious "physicalists" claim.
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Oblig (Score:1)
It's Macrobiome, jeesh scientists nowdays...
https://xkcd.com/1471/
Not the first (Score:1)
Someone else tried a similar experiment:
https://groups.google.com/foru... [google.com]
Sounds as useful (Score:4, Interesting)
as Slashdot's Disable Advertising toggle lately. Being eligible doesn't mean it's functional.
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To be fair, it never actually worked. Not for me.
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It used to work for me, most of the time anyway. It would randomly reset itself and I'd have to check it again. But, I've noticed that checking the checkbox no longer seems to do anything at all now. Oh well.
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To be fair, it never actually worked. Not for me.
It always worked reliably for me, very rarely it'd uncheck itself, but then I'd just recheck it and it'd be good for another 8 months. It's pretty irksome that it's useless now.
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It resets itself at least once per day on me. In the past, it was for three months or so.
Why have I been contributing for 10 years?
Seriously. My constant commentary (highly ranked) is one among the many volunteer efforts by /. members over the last >10 years that raised the value of the 'property' for its recent buy-out by yet another media conglomerate. That means lots of $$$$$ in someone's pocket, yet the meagre reward that I had acquiesced to over the years was to "disable advertising".
Now that is
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Send your take-down notices and leave please.
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It works. When it's checked, the ads are replaced with "targeted links".
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Mine hasn't been working for a month. I sent an e-mail to Slashdot about it, got a canned response, and since then it's disappeared entirely.
I guess it's "fixed" since I now have no expectation for it to work anymore since it's gone...
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How is Slashdot related to an article about eating shit?
Oh. Right.
"fecal slurry" (Score:1)
I found a picture of the guy:
http://2d0yaz2jiom3c6vy7e7e5sv... [netdna-cdn.com]
Huh (Score:1)
Good thing about "bio-hackers"... (Score:2)
The bad ones will probably kill themselves, unlike bad computer hackers that just stay on as script-kiddies or bad coders.
Very promising (Score:4)
Official studies need to happen and soon. We need to find out if sterilizing the gut is actually necessary. In many cases it may be possible to transform an existing gut into another just with fecal matter. We also need to know more about the component bacteria. It is likely possible we could artificially culture a healthy gut biome in an artificial gut. We just need the bacteria and it needs to become tasteless like a powder added to food.
And cravings and the gut biome need to be thoroughly analyzed. And eating it might not be the ideal to replicate a biome; the digestion in the stomach could kill some bacteria but not others and or alter the concentrations.
And of course it works. Come on people think. How much do people spend on diets? Once everyone figures out they can lose significant weight this way it will catch on like wildfire. Everyone with gut problems.. would you rather continue to suffer or eat a little shit?
Re:Very promising (Score:5, Informative)
There has been research. The treatment is currently approved for C. difficile. Of course the FDA couldn't wait to jump in and slow down the research.
Delivery methods include a nasal tube, an enema, scope, and enteric coated pills or capsules. The latter is probably the simplest and doesn't release the payload until it is past the stomach.
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I'm disappointed that I can't get it in suppository form.
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All of the methods I listed accomplish that.
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You know how there are people who grow their hair long, cut it off and sell it on AliExpress/eBay?
Actually you can already get something a bit like this. In Japan various potions and beverages that include bacteria for your gut are widely available. I have no idea if they really work... They make me feel better, but it could be placebo.
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Everyone with gut problems.. would you rather continue to suffer or eat a little shit?
You'd rather not know what I'd rather eat
So I guess we all know where this guy comes down (Score:1)
on the issue of Giant Douche vs. Turd Sandwich...