Utah Governor: 'Porn Is a Public Health Crisis' (cnet.com) 822
An anonymous reader writes: Utah Governor Gary Herbert said on his Facebook page: "Pornography is a public health crisis. The problem is rampant, yet it thrives in secrecy and silence." He emitted this thought on signing a resolution which says porn is "a public health hazard leading to a broad spectrum of individual and public health impacts and societal harms." In addition, it "perpetuates a sexually toxic environment." The resolution doesn't just stop there. It goes on to say "due to advances in technology and the universal availability of the Internet, young children are exposed to what used to be referred to as hard core, but is now considered mainstream, pornography at an alarming rate." The resolution says pornography "equates violence toward women and children with sex and pain with pleasure, which increases the demand for sex trafficking, prostitution, child sexual abuse images, and child pornography." It requests "the need for education, prevention, research, and policy change at the community and societal level in order to address the pornography epidemic that is harming the people of our state and nation." In the words of Gov. Gary Herbert, "Today's bills will start an open discussion." I couldn't agree more...
slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
This is just the continuation of the "public health crisis" excuse to ban something people don't agree with. Smoking, Sugary drinks, guns, etc. The slippery slope continues.
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Funny)
Holy crap! /. has handed you a perfectly good opportunity to talk about porn and you guys decided to talk about smoking?
What is wrong with you?
Re: (Score:3)
This is just the continuation of the "public health crisis" excuse to ban something people don't agree with. Smoking, Sugary drinks, guns, etc. The slippery slope continues.
I have to disagree that porn falls into public health crisis for many reasons. First of all, there is detailed scientific and medical evidence that smoking and too much sugar is bad for you. As for guns, the rising number of death by guns in the US speaks for itself. Now for porn, I don't see anything other than the word of a state governor that it is a serious problem. At best it's a personal issue but doesn't rise to "public health crisis". Does anyone find it irony that a state is deeply religious has a
Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
You've got to be joking. Consider this: The air initially exists free of smoke, and cigarettes are not natural, this is the most basic state. I have the right to not be forced to breathe cancer inducing air from someone who chooses to pollute their own body with such things. If you are smoking in a common area, that is free to anyone, then you are taking away that freedom. I'm not taking away your freedom, the most basic state of the park was free and open air - you smokers are imposing your own will on that air and my body with no choice to myself.
I used to smoke. I'm all for people being allowed to smoke. They should just be given a sealed phone booth in order to do it so the rest of us don't have our rights infringed.
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You've got to be joking. Consider this: The air initially exists free of smoke, and cigarettes are not natural, this is the most basic state. I have the right to not be forced to breathe cancer inducing air
I guess you don't drive cars nor buy anything online that would come to your home by truck, nor travel by airplane.
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That's not a particularly salient argument. Everyone would prefer that cars did NOT emit noxious fumes or gases; unfortunately it's not as simple a solution as banning smoking in public - ergo, we regular car emissions, and we're clearly moving towards vehicles that do not emit exhaust or only emit water.
Re: slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
This argument doesn't really apply either. The person isn't saying you can't ever smoke, they're saying smoke in private.
Nobody likes manufacturing pollution either, and we regulate it accordingly, it's not as simple a solution as banning public smoking.
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I'd like to think so, but I stopped believing in people's coherence in socio-political stances a long while ago.
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They're just a shrinking minority raging against the dying of the light. By this point, they seem to take great pride in being obnoxious assholes, as the irascible malcontents they truly are.
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Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that a lot of smokers think its a good idea to smoke anywhere they are allowed to smoke, regardless of who may be nearby.
Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
And none of them seem to have a problem leaving a trail of butts behind them.
I can be sitting on a park bench surrounded by the evidence of smokers being there.
Re: slippery slope (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can pack it in, you can pack it out. If you think tgst cigarette butt is too nasty for you to put in your pocket and carry to the nearest trashcan then what the f*ck makes you think it is OK to throw it on the ground? The amount of self-delusion that goes on in sinkers heads just boggles my mind. Your right to poison yourself stops at my nose. Your right to produce nasty cigarette butts stops when it turns into littering.
I'm all for your right to smoke but A) I don't have to facilitate it by paying f
Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't this exactly why everything is regulated? I can't drive a hummer down the footpath either and not because those damn pedestrians keep getting blood on the tires.
If you truly think about a public space you would be absolutely amazed at how much regulation there is in those places, mainly because we as a species simply lack the ability to share and get along.
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Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Secondhand farts aren't dangerous.
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No, but not many people fart proudly in public. Society/culture mostly tells them it's wrong.
Smokers, OTOH, are oblivious to their condition and will happily sit near other people who are trying to eat. They often pop out for a quick one during the meal to reinforce their miasma.
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Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
What I am going to pass along is the fact that every single human being I've encountered in "real life" that said they had an allergy to "cigarette" smoke in fact had an allergy to other people smoking, and didn't like the smell
Hi. In the past, as a kid I referred to cigarette smoke sensitivity as an allergy. To be fair, I thought it was. Now, I recognize that it is, in fact, a migraine trigger.
If I'm lucky, exposure to cigarette smoke just leads to a pounding headache. That's what usually happens with brief exposure. With a little more exposure (as is often the case in Vegas), it escalates a bit and becomes a debilitating headache, followed by difficulty breathing and vomiting (after which I feel a little worse). In extreme cases (for example, when there was a fire alarm during class and egress was through the smokers outside the door, and I was not prepared and holding my breath), it results in temporary complete loss of vision, in addition to vomiting and the feeling of having my head put into a vice.
If you've never had the experience of going suddenly blind, it's absolutely, horribly terrifying, particularly when you don't know why. This was my first blindness, and I hadn't been officially diagnosed, so it was just a bizarre thing I talked to the doctor about - he thought it was swelling on the optic nerve and proscribed Benadryl.
You may not know people in person who are genuinely sensitive to smoke, but we exist. I will do my best to avoid you, but I don't necessarily know where you've been, and if I walk through a cloud, you can cause me hours and hours of literal agony.
I have a real, REAL HONEST allergy to certain perfumes and aftershaves, but that doesn't stop woman from drowning themselves in it, and it doesn't stop guys from swimming around in Axe body spray.
Those trigger migraines in me, too. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Re: slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
If they really want to fix the porn problem for minors then the best solution is to take porn out of the shadows (not that it's really in the shadows right now). Many people are reluctant to give their credit card info to porn sites because they are scared that they will be charged or they are scared of getting caught by a spouse. It would be relatively simple to have some place like the DMV or post office give out anonymous ids which have been age verified.
The biggest problem is that they don't want to just stop minors. There is this strange belief in many circles that porn is a gateway to rape (even though studies have shown the exact opposite). I had a friend who ended up on the sexual offender's list because at 23 he slept with a 17 year old girl (who already had a kid, btw). Anyways, one of the conditions of his probation was no porn. Seriously??? We should provide free porn and free internet to everyone on the sexual offender's list. As a society, we should *want* them to stay in their basement watching porn instead of going out prowling.
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At that point it's an annoyance. If you want to play polka in the park I can't stop you, without a health risk how is it different?
Re: slippery slope (Score:4, Informative)
There have been numerous studies on second hand smoke and it has been shown [cdc.gov] to [lung.org] be [cancer.org] quite [cancer.gov] dangerous [www.iarc.fr]. Even a small amount [timeforwellness.org] is bad and has been shown that it can cause long-term health issues.
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While I agree it's entirely anecdotal, I have extremely mild asthma, smoke (even some cooking with poorly vented stoves) and exercise can be triggers for me. I didn't used to think it was a problem, I just lived with it. For a while now in public open air parks it has been illegal to smoke in Houston. I really appreciate being able to go to a park and not have to worry about it. I'm not sure if my having an attack, or multiple attacks over the course of time, triggered by smoke causes any "long term" he
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Interesting)
If you think outdoor smoking ban is ridiculous then you don't realize how much air one cigarette can contaminate.
Personally I'd like to see a total ban on all smoking tobacco.
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
I can guarantee you that my BBQ in one summer "contaminates" more air than I did as a smoker when I did so would you also support total bans on BBQ
To be fair BBQ smells excellent, cigarette smoke does not.
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
> Personally I'd like to see a total ban on all smoking tobacco.
Not to worry, that's just your inner petty tyrant trying to be let free. Fortunately, you and your "there ought to be a law" ilk are *usually* just laughed at and openly mocked. I suppose next you'll be wanting to ban all sex, except for the purpose of procreation and only in the missionary position? We might as well try that whole banning alcohol thing.
'Cause, you know, banning is effective and your need to control other people is insatiable. "Stop doing things I don't like!"
Disclosure: I do smoke cigars but you'd be unlikely to actually witness me smoking unless you were in my home. Can't have me enjoying my cigars now, can we?
I Just don't want people to smoke while I'm eating or outside my doors and windows. Smoke all you want, I don't care. I'll even hang out with you while you smoke (outside, while I stand upwind of you). Have a blast. I just don't want to smell it. Feel free to have all the wild and crazy sex you want, also. I probably don't want to watch that, either. Smoke at a park, I don't care. Just don't smoke upwind from the playground. Really it's more common courtesy than anything else. I think the real problem is that courtesy is no longer (was never?) common.
Re:slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
A total ban is probably ludicrous, but by the same token, we don't let people shit in public, because of health concerns and basic social decency, so why is it that we let people smoke in public?
Re:slippery slope (Score:4)
It was always the shop worker that was the gatekeeper to bar tobacco, alcohol and porn from minors.
Somehow in my childhood I did not notice children deprived of any of these things, long before the internet or even AOL.
Re:slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
"At any rate, denying men access to porn will likely lead to more babies"
Or more likely, more rape
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:slippery slope (Score:4, Informative)
I'd like to see the study that not only shows correlation, but causation between access to porn and rape statistics.
There is a correlation, but it's in the other direction.
http://idei.fr/sites/default/f... [idei.fr]
The results above suggest that potential rapists perceive pornography as a
substitute for rape. With the mass market introduction of the world wide web in the late-
1990’s, both pecuniary and non-pecuniary prices for pornography fell. The associated
decline in rape illustrated in the analysis here is consistent with a theory, such as that in
Posner (1994), in which pornography is a complement for masturbation or consensual
sex, which are themselves substitutes for rape, making pornography a net substitute for
rape.
There is research that suggests porn might have a causative relationship for reductions in rape, which would make a certain degree of sense, given that there will be fewer sexually frustrated men.
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
C'mon, it's much more than that. The men in the US are not getting married, and having fewer children.
You wouldn't attribute that to the increased demands and expectations from women that makes it harder for some men to find a partner then?
You don't think an improved awareness of the economic disadvantages fatherhood imposes on a man is involved?
You think the gender bias in the legal system isn't putting men off marriage and the subsequent damage caused by a potential divorce?
It's increasingly difficult to justify marriage, fatherhood is a risky proposition when so many men end up paying to raise a child they're prevented from seeing and men are being told at school and university that they must adhere to a feminist ideal that in turn puts off many women that want a successful alpha male as a partner.
I guess it could just be all down to porn though. Yeah, porn and sexbots. Fuck me.
Re:slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
men are being told at school and university that they must adhere to a feminist ideal that in turn puts off many women that want a successful alpha male as a partner.
This one is my favorite. They've spent the last 35 years telling men to be better listeners, and getting them in touch with their feelings, and now I read all these articles wondering where all the masculine, take-charge men have gone. It's kinda funny, really.
Re: slippery slope (Score:5, Interesting)
I've met a few (blessedly few) women of such temperament, even a few friends, and I say go for it woman - be as blatant about it as you like, it makes it all the easier for me to steer clear, and there's certainly no shortage of men trying to buy women's attention with flashy cars, big bankrolls, etc. I say the two groups deserve each other, and may their financially-based relationships bring them as much happiness as money can buy.
If you've been suffering such a stream of repeated encounters with such women to breed the bitterness you're giving voice to, then let me offer a bit of advice: You know all those hot women with well-sculpted bodies, beautiful hair, and flawless makeup that invariably catch your eye? That almost always takes work, a LOT of work, to maintain. Between personal grooming and cosmetics, plus maintenance throughout the day, and regular exercise to maintain that sculpted body, you can easily be talking an hour or two per day. Plus almost completely depriving themselves of the sweet and fatty foods we all love. Assuming they also have a job to pay the bills, and sleep the recommended 8 hours a day, that can be over 1/4 of their daily free time spent on activities geared toward creating an image unnaturally attractive to men. That's ferocious long-term dedication to a "hobby", and you can reasonably expect they want a return on investment. Enjoy their work as you would any other art exhibit, and walk on past.
If you want a woman who will stand beside you as an equal or helpmate instead, then try focusing instead on women who look a bit more like, well, you. Possibly a bit more of a belly because they generally have a metabolism better optimized to storing calories against the lean times than you, Comparable cleanliness and grooming. Not much makeup on a regular basis. Start there, and you'll at least be much more likely to be dealing with a person you can actually relate to, who spends their free time doing things they actually enjoy rather than trying to snag a good "catch", and who is looking for a partner to share their life with, rather than an investor in their beauty.
Re:slippery slope (Score:4, Insightful)
They've all been restricted to some extent, with attempts made to expand the restrictions.
Cause and effect to determine public health crises (Score:5, Informative)
They've all been restricted to some extent, with attempts made to expand the restrictions.
The way you can tell if something is actually a public health issue is to figure out if it is a cause or problems or a symptom.
The problem is that sugar is needleslly subsidized [economics21.org] so their economic cost isn't realized in their market price. Some consumption of sugar is fine but as a society we've gone WAY beyond what is demonstrably healthy. So over consumption of sugary drinks is a public health crisis because it is a significant factor in obesity, diabetes and other conditions common in the population. Eat too much sugar and you get fat and/or diabetes and/or other illnesses. Cause and effect.
Smoking IS a genuine public health crisis. There are innumerable diseases with clear causal relationships to smoking. It's not even a debate that it is a public health issue. Smoking clearly causes illnesses
Porn is NOT a genuine health crisis. Arguments to that effect are people looking for an excuse to interject their own morality in most cases. At most it is a symptom of people who have genuine mental health issues but the porn isn't the cause. Porn doesn't cause mental health issues but mental health issue might result in porn. You won't make the mental health issue go away by suppressing or removing access to porn. Even nasty stuff like kiddie-porn does not cause mental health problems - it merely shows us where they already exist.
Re:Cause and effect to determine public health cri (Score:5, Interesting)
I seem to remember some studies that suggest that porn watching among teenagers *in the US* does in fact tend to bias them towards more extreme activities likely to induce pain, humiliation, etc.
As I recall though, those same studies suggested a much more practical solution - stop treating sexuality as a taboo subject. It's arguably the single most important biological drive, and as that drive gets activated as teenagers hit puberty they're naturally going to seek out information and stimulation. In the US today, that pretty much means pornographic depictions of often dubious activities*, since depictions of healthy, well-adjusted sexuality are banned from general media, and are insufficiently titillating to be the focus of much porn.
*I should clarify that I have nothing against "dubious activities" between consenting adults. But it makes for very poor education of what a healthy baseline sexual relationship looks like.
Healthy baseline.... whoose? (Score:3)
So far, most of the declarations which have been made public as to what "healthy baseline sexual relationship" means that I have encountered have been not so much simply wrong, as ludicrously stupid and profoundly wrongheaded.
The way I see it is this: Informed consent between the actual parties to the act(s.) That's it. That's all of it.
As soon as some wag wants to intervene without those parties consent, now there really is a problem that can realistically be defined as anti "healthy baseline sexual relati
Re:Healthy baseline.... whoose? (Score:4, Interesting)
Absolutely, and I make no claim to be so. But porn is, by and large, made by and for men, and competes to be as titillating as possible to secure as much of the market as possible, and so it inevitably portrays a very lopsided picture. Go ahead and watch a bunch of it at random, with careful attention to the actors faces - they're rarely good actors after all, and their faces tend to expose their actual feelings if you're not focused on other things. The men are generally enjoying themselves, the women, considerably less frequently. And if a professional with lots of experience is expressing discomfort or distaste, it's a fair bet that it's not something the average woman is really going to enjoy. Some individuals certainly, but it's probably not a good baseline to educate children who have no broader experience to draw upon.
Keep in mind, I'm not saying do away with porn, I'm saying lets stop hiding the averages (and extremes) of what real people choose to engage in behind social taboos. And I'm not just spouting off, I have some female friends who endured some really unpleasant things in their early relationships, simply because they thought it as normal and had no idea they should be demanding better treatment.
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Go watch a bunch of random porn. Pay close attention to the actors faces, and tell me that the women are enjoying it as much as the men. Even better, if you have female friends you can have honest conversations with, get their opinions on the subject as well.
Porn is made primarily by and for men, and presents a very lopsided view of what a mutually satisfying sexual encounter looks like, if it even attempts to do so at all. Not that there's anything wrong with a particular encounter being extremely lopside
Re:Cause and effect to determine public health cri (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure your position is supported by recent publications. While I agree that people define "baseline" - the current concern is that teenagers are looking to porn as "what normal is." Teenagers make up their own truth in the absence of education. For example "you can't get pregnant the first time" ... etc.
I read an article recently that young women (girls) are being "trained" by young men (boys). Boys are watching porn and they expect girls to behave the same way. Girls want to be part of the in-club and are adapting - convincing themselves (for example) that oral sex isn't sex. Free to do it at will without consequence. They are not developing a healthy relationship with sex. Other forms of sex are now entering this new base-line. Forms that girls don't really want to do - but again adapt to remain in the club.
There are fears that STDs will rise because these "new" baseline forms of sex aren't considered problematic by teens - and therefore aren't protecting themselves....because of the "you can't get pregnant" line of reasoning.
My point is that teens may not be choosing their own baseline. Peer pressure is forcing unhealthy choices on them. You can't drink until 21, some states are proposing "can't smoke" until 21. Well thought out reasoning is not a skill teens have ;-)
Teaching our young what "healthy" looks like is probably the place to start. Okay - maybe parents not literally teaching them. Open the dialog and remove the taboo.
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Burdens of proof do not work that way! Goodnight!
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Informative)
most nudity that is porn portrays abusive behavior
Citation needed. If I pull up Xvideos or Redtube or some other site mega-site, most of the videos on the first few pages, which is a reasonably diverse selection of heterosexual-oriented porn, doesn't look like it features chicks getting fishhooked, donkey punched, facialed, or otherwise degraded.....well, beyond the stereotypically rapey Japanese stuff, anyway. There is some for sure, but definitely not >50%, which I would consider a minimum cutoff for "most". And given the rise of camwhore shows and amateur couples uploading their sexcapades, I'd say abuse in porn products is overall in a decline. The sort of stuff produced by the crew at Facial Abuse is not an industry standard.
Re:slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
A standard "facial" is hardly abuse. They're barely outside of mainstream, and many women find them erotic. As for degrading, that's subjective. Is it degrading to be mildly submissive? For people with a fragile ego, perhaps, but most of us are submissive in some form to some people every day, as a part of a normal, healthy existence. That the context is sexual rather than, say, working behind a counter doesn't magically make it wrong. When it becomes abusive or degrading is when there's a lack of consent or choice. That's also when it becomes a crime.
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Do any of those videos state that they are brother/sister, teens, or whatever, even if they are not in reality? Then, they are pornographic because they are describing abusive sexual acts.
Firstly, you seem to be immediately linking "pornography = abusive sexual acts". Which is an inherently biased position to take as no accepted definition of porn implies abuse, only content intended to generate sexual arousal.
Whether you agree that sex between an adult and their teen baby sitter or incest or whatever are pornographic or not or have some psycho-sexual effect on you or not, does not change whether they portray an abusive situation or not.
Again you are making a giant leap across a chasm of logic to conclude that sex with a teen baby sitter is automatically an abusive situation. An eighteen year old is a teenager....and over the age of consent almost globally. So how do you conclude that, in all situations, 2 adults who
The behavior is the public health problem (Score:5, Insightful)
most nudity that is porn portrays abusive behavior and feeds a need in the viewer that probably is not healthy.
People are horny whether or not they have access to porn. "Portrays abusive behavior"? In some cases sure but the porn isn't the cause, it is the result.
I've done a lot of counseling sessions with people whose relationships and lives were ruined by the persons addiction to porn.
Addiction is a real problem but it doesn't follow that porn = public health crisis because some people cannot manage their libido effectively. Alcoholism is a disease but that doesn't make alcohol a public health problem. It makes alcoholism a public health problem. See the difference? Alcohol consumed responsibly is a non-problem. Alcohol consumed to excess routinely and/or in an irresponsible manner (i.e. alcoholism) is a problem.
Seriously, this is a Mormon lawmaker trying to legislate his own morality on others. Let's not pretend there is any credibility to calling this a public health crisis because it isn't.
I have yet to do a single one where sugary drinks, for example, caused it.
And exactly how do you get to the conclusion that obesity and diabetes are conditions best treated by counseling?
Re:The behavior is the public health problem (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, this is a Mormon lawmaker trying to legislate his own morality on others. Let's not pretend there is any credibility to calling this a public health crisis because it isn't.
As an ex-mormon living in Utah I can say that it actually *is* a public health crisis. But, for exactly the *opposite* reasons mr. mormon lawmaker thinks. For decades Utah has found itself in the top-10 list of many bad things: #1 anti-depression pill use per capita of any state. Most teen-age pregnancies.
The thing is, it is the *result*, not the cause. The *cause* is the damned oppressive religion. You get kids that aren't allowed to even talk about their own bodily functions so hormoned up (naturally) and curious that when they do cross the line they are completely unprepared and don't just "sin" away their virginity--but get knocked up. Then they feel mentally and emotionally devastated to have 'failed" themself, their god, their religion, their "cleanliness" that they become depressed. It highly exacerbates the mental states and swings experienced.
You get married men "using" porn (yes, they love the term "using" to spread the bias of their opinion around like it's an illicit drug) because even after marriage discussion of sex is still largely prohibited, and doing anything much more than missionary is discouraged. Hellfire and damnation being at stake, of course. They are still curious--and for most of them their cultured wives aren't willing to risk trying anything "dirty" to have more fun. In short, they get bored and frustrated by whatever is still prohibited to them.
If you think I'm just being anti-religious-biased you probably have not truly been exposed to mormonism enough to know that there is a *huge* body of corroborating evidence. Get on exmormon.org and read "The Double Bind in Mormonism", then go read the forum posts. You may very well be amazed at how bad the experience really can be for a majority of the people.
Legislating this kind of stupid crap is just an extension of the cult's mindset. No different than the silly 2 shot limit at bars (yes, you *cannot* legally mix a long-island tea in a public bar because it has *ghasp* *4* shots).
The saddest fact of the matter is that historically Joseph Smith drank like crazy and sexed up women like crazy. If he were alive today he'd be a registered sex offender. He shared men's wives, stole men's wives, smoked, drank, and was quite a slick talker. This is all documented in their own church archives--but most members still have on the blinders of cognitive dissonance. SLC even supported a brothel for decades in the early years--frequented by members in leadership and non-members alike, and they made their own booze back then too.
It's not about religion (Score:3)
The AMA and other medical professionals and groups have been dealing with porn for years now and they are anything other than religious. Porn is real and is more than nude pictures. Equating the two is a bit like saying a Star Wars and a snuff film are synonymous because people die in both of them.
As for all of the things you list as being the results of Mormonism being an oppressive religion, that would seem to be a simple experiment to design. Do other states that are not dominated by Mormonism have gr
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Re: slippery slope (Score:4, Informative)
It's not really weird, it is a result of the suppression of their instincts and desires that religions engage in.
Proof? (Score:2, Insightful)
That's a bold statement... If he's got proof, I'd like to see it (for free, obviously)
No control group (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a bold statement... If he's got proof, I'd like to see it (for free, obviously)
Science would be great here, although any limitations are going to be severely limited by both the first amendment.
I remember hearing a few years ago that the effects of internet pornography were difficult to study because it is too difficult to find a control group.
Re:No control group (Score:5, Informative)
Especially in Utah! [consumerist.com]
Re: No control group (Score:4, Funny)
Re:No control group (Score:5, Informative)
Time.
When porn was legalized in Denmark in the 1970'es, rape went down significantly. Later studies have shown that the places with the most and best internet connections[1] have the lowest number of rape cases.
[1] The internet is for porn[2], obviously.
[2] Insert AvenueQ video here.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not a rational thing on the side of the prohibitionists. They simply claim that "God" told them porn was bad, so it obviously must be the truth.
Re:No control group (Score:5, Insightful)
> Later studies have shown that the places with the most and best internet connections[1] have the lowest number of rape cases.
This is an excellent time to remind everyone that correlation is not causation. Those places with the best 'net connections are also the most stable societies, the wealthier societies, etc... I suspect those have far more influence on the number of criminal sex offenses than the access to speedy porn. Just a hunch...
I bet you can probably say that those countries also have, on average, a greater availability of clean water. Surely, it's the clean water that's preventing the rape!
Re: Proof? (Score:4, Informative)
There's decent science on this:
http://bigthink.com/dollars-an... [bigthink.com]
Re: Proof? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is and from multiple sources. The problem is that it says what the prohibitionists are doing is actually quite harmful and increases rape and other problems. In addition, they often think they are on a mission from "God" (or against male dominance) and if they would admit the facts, it would not only look like they are exceptionally stupid, but outright malicious. Hence this evil and harmful crusade continues, like some other ones do.
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since when does feminism require proof? to them only feelings matter...
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Liberals rely on feelings, conservatives suppress them.
Re: Proof? (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe not the proof you were looking for, but porn damages the viewer. You guys should really look at the quiet epidemic of "The Great Porn Experiment" (TED Talk, free, 16 min): https://youtu.be/wSF82AwSDiU
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Nobody has proof for this, because it does not exist. Even the claim that pornography is harmful to children does not have proof because it is mostly wrong and primary fueled by dark and restrictive religious ideas. The only known harm is that they may feel inadequate, but that can be counteracted by explaining to them that what they see are athletes doing a performance and that what is displayed in bodies is not average at all and that normal sex is quite a bit different.
The fact of the matter is that teen
Re:Proof? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is an interesting assumption on your part. On the other hand, from people I know who work at schools, there is an increasing problem of boys who don't seem to realize that girlfriends don't like being treated like porn starts and girls who think it's normal for sex to be all about the man's sexual gratification and not the woman's.
At the very least, we have a problem with porn being the only sexual education some of these kids are getting.
Re: (Score:3)
Religion is the party with the extraordinary claims here. They would need to have extraordinary proof, but they have nothing at all.
If only... (Score:5, Insightful)
If only we had a way to instruct these children about responsible sexual practices. If only we could gather children together 5 days a week in public buildings and teach them sexual education along with math, science and history to demystify sex so that porn isn't their only reference.
If only...
Re: If only... (Score:3, Interesting)
fucking wankers (Score:2)
https://virtuoussociety.com/20... [virtuoussociety.com]
Can't they just let it go and get over themselves?
Re:fucking wankers (Score:5, Funny)
Can't they just let it go
Given their porn usage, the thing they really can't let go is clearly "it". As it were.
Great (Score:4, Insightful)
Another attempt by the far right to legislate its religious morality. Maybe we should call religion a public health crisis. It damages people's ability to think rationally. Porn is like any other film; it's staged. Of course, the right doesn't call action movies a public health crisis, even though they tend to contain plenty of violence; action movies don't violate their religion's morals.
Re:Great (Score:5, Interesting)
which increases the demand for sex trafficking, prostitution, child sexual abuse images, and child pornography
When I look at porn, I don't feel a need to abuse children. And I think most people don't either.
If this governor feels the need to abuse children when watching porn, then by all means he SHOULD stop watching porn.
In fact I strongly believe that anybody who feels watching adult sex leads to wanting sex with children should seek help and should absolutely stop watching porn.
But please governor, stop projecting your own feelings on the rest of humanity.
Re:Great (Score:5, Insightful)
A fairly compelling argument can be made that porn actually reduces abuse but providing an outlet for perfectly normal, powerful feelings. As the Catholic church demonstrates, abstinence certainly has some pretty severe psychological consequences.
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, quite a lot of religious conservatives do protest against the staged violence in TV and movies and say that it should be censored to protect children.
Re: (Score:3)
And by quite a lot, I presume you mean a very small number of extremely vocal groups such as the Parents Television Council that roboform generate 99.8% of the complaints [arstechnica.com] for obscenity, indecency, and/or profanity.
Re: Great (Score:5, Insightful)
You have a good point. Utah is known to have very few right-wing religious folks, but is full of liberal feminists. So logically, this bill was passed by feminists.
Either that, or you have an irrational hatred of feminists, probably due to deep and perfectly valid feelings of inadequacy, and try to blame them for everything.
This governor.. (Score:2)
He sounds like some sort of fusion between a tumblr socjus and a bible nut, using several "power words" from both sides.
Re: (Score:2)
Probably enough to run on a very big guilt trip.
Re: (Score:2)
I wouldn't be shocked if he was Utah's #1 subscriber of gay porn.
Correction Governor.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Exposure to politicians and their desires to push their own ideals on others is a public health crisis.
WE should outlaw politicians at once!
Well, he has a point. (Score:4, Insightful)
Utah has the highest consumption rate of porn, and there really hasn't been a good explanation for it.
On the plus side, it's nice to see the religious right taking on the mantle of anti-porn crusaders again from feminist, as the you can only get so far with claims of misogyny.. Erototoxins are where its at.
Unfortunately for him, this discussion already took place in 1969 (snark), via the President's Commission on Obscenity and Pornography. Thus far, I haven't heard much in the way to contradict their findings.
And then there is that pesky free speech issue, which regardless of public health problems, the courts haven't seen fit to abridge.
I'll be the first to admit I'm dismayed at the prevalence of porn now, but simply asking people to use more discretion isn't nearly as headline grabbing as claiming porn is a health crisis.
Maybe he can look into why there is such a problem in his own state and get back to us?
Re:Well, he has a point. (Score:4, Insightful)
Sexual repression leads to higher porn consumption.
Utah is predominantly Mormon.
Q.E.D.
Re: (Score:3)
And in the middle east they use goats.
Once again... (Score:2)
He's Right! (Score:5, Funny)
And not only Porn! Also:
- Videogames
- Role playing games
- Rock
- Divorces
- Sodomy
- Being black
- Heresy
- Witchcraft
- Barbarian..ism?
Huh? How's that work then? (Score:5, Funny)
Utah Governor: 'Porn Is a Public Health Crisis'
Why would porn cause a pubi-
Oh, public. Never mind.
Our govner is right (Score:5, Funny)
Crisis (Score:3)
When I hear the word crisis my BS detector goes up. Almost nothing that is described as a crisis nowadays isn't.
In fact to the contrary, the use of hyperbole instead of just-the-facts-madam arguments to make the point betrays that even for the proponent the situation isn't that serious and hence the overreach.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear governor (Score:4, Informative)
I'm not sure if you are Mormon or Protestant, but either way I presume you hold the Bible sacred. My Bible says in I Peter 4:15-16 not to be a busybody or meddler in other people's decisions. It's sort of a well known passage because it's one of only three places that the Bible uses the word "Christian," but somehow I think a lot of people have missed what it says not to do.
Being extremely religious, I take the Bible and this passage extremely seriously. I suggest you do start doing so as well. You're making things difficult for the rest of us.
"Women and Childnren" (Score:3)
...equates violence toward women and children with sex and pain with pleasure...
Implying....men are the perpetrators, amirite?
I am tired of the implication that all men, everywhere, are just busting at the seams to violate and hurt women and children ( no one seems to imply or care if they hurt each other, after all ), only we don't out of some fear of punishment. That's incredibly disrespectful and sexist towards men AND it infantilizes women. As if neither gender has any agency of self.
It's still sexism if it's against men. Hell, it's sexism even if the men are white.
I hate to be cliche... (Score:5, Insightful)
conservatives are learning from the left (Score:3)
Conservatives used to declare things to be "immoral" and they could mess with people's lives to their hearts' content. That doesn't work anymore. But the left came up with something much better: declare something a "health crisis", and all of a sudden anything goes. As a bonus, many feminists [wikipedia.org] have the same screwed up views [wikipedia.org] of pornography as Mormons.
Kinky! (Score:3)
The resolution says pornography "equates violence toward women and children with sex and pain with pleasure, which increases the demand for sex trafficking, prostitution, child sexual abuse images, and child pornography."
I don't know which sites the Governor has been sampling, but my tastes are much more tame.
Re:Another unnformed nut (Score:4, Insightful)
Naaa, that could lead to inconvenient questions who is responsible for _that_ and if fixed, it could lead to a non-distracted population that actually notices how self-centered, incompetent and evil politicians actually are.
Re: (Score:3)
Coffee is also addictive, and the Mormons have banned the consumption of Caffeine.
Re: (Score:3)
Hmm... How do you know the kid next door's porn viewing habits?!? Or is that a euphemism for you and you just don't want to admit you whack of to porn?
Dude, we're pretty much all guys here and we all know the internet was built for porn. I don't know anyone who actually watches porn for the good acting and I suspect they all sit around whacking off while watching porn. Sort if...
See, I did have a couple of friends who had a porn video playing, all the time, in their VCR. They'd even acquired a movie rewinde