The Heat Is On: Climate Change Causes Birds To Hatch Early (australiangeographic.com.au) 123
grrlscientist writes: A recently published study reveals that climate change can cause birds' eggs to hatch early. In addition to creating warmer temperatures that trigger early embryonic development in birds, climate change also increases the frequency and duration of heat waves. Thus, warming temperatures are leading to asynchronous hatching of individual eggs within a clutch and increased chick mortality, particularly for birds breeding in the tropics and semi-tropics, and in tropical deserts.
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And BTW, I buried Paul.
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Re:Confirmation Bias (Score:4, Interesting)
Or you could go actually read the original paper [royalsocie...ishing.org] to see if you could detect any confirmation bias. I did and it's not that hard to read if you have a little biology literacy.
Re:Confirmation Bias (Score:4, Informative)
The paper was about the effect of temperatures on the nesting success of zebra finches. As part of the study they looked at natural conditions but they also tested the effects of artificially raising the temperature. The paper barely mentions global warming.
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It's playing havoc with hedgehogs too, they come out of hibernation too early.
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Screw birds, my kitteh already changed to summer fur after all the warm days... then it snowed today.
Development (Score:2)
Does this cause developmental issues, or does the heat also result in a faster maturation cycle while in the egg?
In this case, it seems they're equally developed, but latter lays don't hatch at the same time as the others and thus are less developed than their earlier-hatching siblings.
Re:Development (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well evidently the latter -- the eggs of the Zebra Finch are laid on successive days but the species' chick rearing strategy depends on the eggs hatching on the same day. This leaves the nesting pair with chicks at different levels of development, which makes it harder for the parents to care for the brood.
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It wasn't one or the other, the first one was a question, the second was my understanding of the article.
Basically it says later offspring get fed less because - being hatched later - they're smaller. Normally they'd be hatched at a the same time because they don't incubate until mom sites the nest, but apparently that's happening at lay now.
So they start developing earlier, but it doesn't really say if they're not developing fully, just that they're possibly getting fed less due to the not hatching at the
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There's no doubt that if you choose a suitably long time scale than something like this is insignificant. But as Keynes famously quipped, in the long run we're all dead. Nobody thinks that global warming will end life on Earth, or make a whit of difference after a few million years have gone by. It's the period everyone currently on Earth can expect to live through that's the problem.
Interesting findings; and related... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Interesting findings; and related... (Score:5, Informative)
This is a fairly significant problem for parts of Northern New Mexico through Central Colorado. I think though that it's kind of the opposite timing from what you describe. The Spruce Beetle larvae are spawning at an earlier time. The eggs of birds who primarily predate on them to feed their young aren't hatching early enough (they're hatching earlier, just not early enough) and are actually dwindling due to starvation while the infestation gets larger. The pine beetle infestation is even worse.
It's rather stunning to see mile after mile of dead forest in parts of central Colorado.
http://www.summitdaily.com/new... [summitdaily.com]
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There's this comic [lemonde.fr] in French. References are also in French, from a cycle of conferences about the climate before COP21.
Basically, bird communities are moving North with the climate warming, about 100km in 20years, which means they're not moving as fast as the climate is warming (they should have moved 250km North). But the whole food chain should move North and/or adapt to the temperature. Plants and invertebrate adapt immediately (basically, a target temperature is the trigger for spring), but laying eggs
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Apparently the insects did not get the memo that the warmer temperatures should also make them spring forth earlier in the season.
Or... birds and insects do not have identical metabolisms.
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Re:Interesting findings; and related... (Score:5, Insightful)
Fine. You tell me why the birds are hatching early and then starving to death from a lack of insects, in historically unprecedented ways. Your theory should provide evidence of comparable quality to that in this paper: http://rsos.royalsocietypublis... [royalsocie...ishing.org]. It will not be sufficient for you to say "a kid stomped on all the bugs" or something like that.
It's not like they pulled this answer out of their asses. They presented actual evidence, whereas you are countering that by saying "well OF COURSE you'd say that, regardless of the evidence".
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I feel I should warn you that AM appears to be entirely immune to logic, facts and reason. This is especially true when it comes to anything libertarian in nature, and he is an ardent opposer of climate change because it challenges his deeply held libertarian beliefs that the free market is perfect and will correct every problem.
I am sure he will either ignore you, or invent another spurious reason why he needs to ignore the the facts.
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Al Gore
DRINK!
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"Ignore the facts" meaning "healthy skepticism".
There's nothing "healthy" about your "skepticism". It is entirely one-sided and engineered to insulate your from inconvenient truths.
Like when the CRU at UEA was caught manipulating the numbers (and then conveniently "lost" them) ? Those facts?
I would refute your claims, except that you left out all specifics other than the target you wish you discredit with vague allegations, however, assuming you're referring to "climategate", eight separate investigations [wikipedia.org] found that the claims you are repeating were invented bullshit based on quote-mining thousands of emails.
or the fact that the Polar Cap has more ice now than it should given Global Warming? (should be gone according to Al Gore!) Those facts?
More facts that aren't. Arctic ice losses are consiste
Re:Interesting findings; and related... (Score:4, Interesting)
And having looked at the dataset, I can conclude that it is incomplete (as shown) because there is no date ranges for each of the data points in the spread graph (fig 1). All it shows is that the heat band (grey box) is the danger zone. They haven't shown increasing temperatures as the cause for the datapoints in that range.
With an analysis of the graph like that I can see why I always think you don't have a clue what you're talking about. The x-axis of the graph is clearly labeled July through June (the equivalent seasonally of January through December in the Northern Hemisphere) and the caption to the graph says the points of the graph represent the daily maximum temperature from 2005 to 2013. On top of that the caption says the grey band is the ideal range for avian embryo development.
The paper wasn't trying to say anything about anthropogenic global warming, it was just looking at the effect of temperature on the nesting success of zebra finches.
Re:Interesting findings; and related... (Score:4, Funny)
Birds have a well-known liberal bias.
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Not just hatching early, also breeding in the wrong season. We had blackbirds breeding in december due to another autumn heat record, the offspring hatched in january and died quickly because there was no suitable food around - only berries, no insects.
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If the bug population changes at all, they will blame "global warming" er... climate change. It doesn't matter what actually happens, they will blame one thing, and one thing only.
And you'll be there, denying that climate change is responsible for anything, it doesn't matter what actually happens.
And there there is the problem, it creates sloppy science, and lazy record keeping.
[Citation Needed]
Here's one that proves you're either ignorant (probably willfully) or lying:
Why trust climate models? It’s a matter of simple science [arstechnica.com]
I am waiting for the Zika virus to be blamed on global warming.
And we're waiting for you to tell us which branches of science that you, in your omniscience, condone.
Meanwhile, here in reality, even Alexander Graham Bell, of the telephone inventor fame, recognized that CO2 had been proven a greenhous
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"global warming" er... climate change.
Know how I know you're a complete idiot?
The average (i.e. global) temperature of the earth is getting hotter, i.e. warming, hence, global warming. The change in temperature causes the climage to change, hence climate change.
Not hard to understand, but apparently far beyond you. You will continue to belive you are smart and have some deep insight because you've spotted that people use different terms for different aspects of the same thing.
And? (Score:1)
NEWS FLASH: The world has never been static.
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NEWS FLASH: That's not insight and we know that already.
NEWS FLASH: that doesn't mean CO2 isn't making the glob warm and the climate change.
Re:I agree that climate change has these effects (Score:5, Insightful)
This climate change is caused almost entirely by the sun and the oceans.
But this isn't borne out by evidence. The sun has cooled very slightly, but the temperature has spiked up: https://www.skepticalscience.c... [skepticalscience.com]
The oceans absorb and release carbon dioxide in direct proportion to atmospheric carbon dioxide. They essentially function to reduce the impact of atmospheric CO2 changes that would otherwise happen, in either direction. The ocean doesn't just burp out CO2 on a whim.
Every reputable expert on geologic evidence I can find suggest that geologic evidence actually indicates that current climate change is overwhelmingly from human activity, and unusually rapid. There will of course be error bars and overall trendlines from natural sources as well, although it's not even clear that trendline runs in the same direction as current climate change.
Re:I agree that climate change has these effects (Score:4, Funny)
Every reputable expert on geologic evidence I can find suggest that geologic evidence actually indicates that current climate change is overwhelmingly from human activity, and unusually rapid.
Well there's your problem. Getting your science information from Scientists, instead of Politicians and the industries that own them. Whooooeeeee! what next? Gettin' healthcare from Doctors? That's crazy thinkin'!
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Whooooeeeee! what next? Gettin' healthcare from Doctors? That's crazy thinkin'!
No kidding! He should get his health care from his insurance company, like everyone else!
Caribou as well. (Score:4, Interesting)
The war on carbon (Score:2)
We must immediately divert all resources from the war on drugs, and wage war on carbon. Cook a steak on the grill? Go to jail. It really is that simple. /sarc.
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war on drugs, we have more drugs.
war on terrorists, we have more terrorist
war on poverty, we have more poverty
You are suggesting war on carbon will reduce carbon?
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You are suggesting war on carbon will reduce carbon?
Facepalm - Please tell me you didn't take his post seriously.
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We must immediately divert all resources from the war on drugs,
I sort of get the impression you're being sarcastic, especially your sarcasm marker. Frankly the war on drugs is one of the stupidest things that the US government ahs ever engaged in. Anything diverting money away from that would be an excellent idea.
We're all gonna die!!!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
The end is nigh!!!!!!
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SJW>
*eyeroll*
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SJW is a useful acronym for finding who is a Self-Righteous equality hating White redneck-free-speech Bigot, especially if it's in their signature.
FTFY.
My friend Junior says... (Score:2)
My friend Junior says,
"Fewer birds, means more available shotgun shells and less poop on windshield."
temporary change in mortality (Score:1)
The increase in mortality is a temporary result of warming. Eventually those that hatch earlier will dominate through natural selection. Then the faster rate of birth that follows will offset all the other problems we have been causing and birds will come to dominate the Earth. I look forward to welcoming our new feathered overlords.
my submission was plagiarised. (Score:2)
Re:my submission was plagiarised. (Score:4, Informative)
Probably because of this "Thank you for visiting Forbes. We noticed that you have an ad blocker enabled." Which makes the site useless to many of us.
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You are in serious need of a better blocker. Try NoScript.
You don't use both?
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Interesting.
Of course, if they had posted the correct link, then a significant portion of the people would not have been able to read it without unblocking Forbes, which is probably not going to happen due to the perceived abuse of the Forbes site and its ads.
However, if you got enough interest to get it posted, you probably should have had your story posted with the proper link, and ignored the naysayers.
For the record, I ad block Forbes myself, which is too bad really, and I do find them a bit obnoxious (
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forbes.com
Well right there is the problem. Malware enabling site Forbes.com insists that before we see anything there, we have to disable our adblockers and allow them to serve us up a nice stew of malware.
was replaced with the australian geographic link. honestly, the australian geographic story pales compared to the story that i shared.
Too bad. Since I can't see it, unless I agree to the malware, I just don't bother going there any more. Forbes is the internet version of unsafe sex.
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my words were stolen to promote a poorly written substitute to the story that i quoted and that i intended to share. if the plagiarist wanted to promote a different story, then that person should never have used MY NAME nor MY WORDS to do so. this bait-and-switch plagiarism should not be allowed to stand on this, or any, reputable site.
First off, calm down. Bait and switch - I do not think it means what I think you think it means. And given that the folks who make those decisions have been catching a load of bad feedback from references to Forbes.com, they did think your story was interesting enough to search out an alternative link.
That's all. I do suspect that you will never again have to worry about them "plagiarizing" any submission of yours in the future.
FYI: here's the link to the story that i shared: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gr... [forbes.com]
i am sure you'll agree that the piece i shared is far superior to the bait-and-switched australian geographic story.
I'll never know, because I won't ever see that article, because I won't disa
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So what you're really saying is... (Score:2)
Birds adapt but humans can't! (Score:1)
So birds in their wisdom can adapt to climate change but the weeping willies say humans can't.
Re:Birds adapt but humans can't! (Score:4, Insightful)
So birds in their wisdom can adapt to climate change but the weeping willies say humans can't.
Of course we can. Those adaptations might not be all that much fun for some of us though.
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Is it good? (Score:2)
Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Would that result in an overpopulation of birds, and further global warming, and hatching even earlier, until birds stop laying eggs and reproduce like humans - birds coming directly out of them rather than hatching from the eggs
Blame the birds. (Score:2)
Climate changes, life adapts (Score:2)
In all of this planet's history we've seen more significant changes in the climate and at rates much greater and slower than what we've seen. The flora and fauna has adapted before and will adapt again.
The interesting thing about how climate, flora, and fauna interact is that a change in any one produces a change in the others. Climates do change, fauna and flora adapt, and a new climate is produced.
At one time I would have been upset about the potential extinction of a species but no more. I remember he
Anecdotal (Score:2)
Anecdotal observations ...
In Southern Ontario where I live ... this year I have been hearing many song birds in early and mid February. Today (Feb 20), it was a male cardinal singing. A couple of weeks ago, it was Red Winged Black Birds, and American Goldfinches.
This is very unusual. It was not until March that we would hear them. I am not saying they are migratory, since some of them choose to stay and feed of bird feeders in people's backyards. But the act of males singing is the unusual part ...
It is an
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hooray now if you had only logged in we would know who to congratulate.
Also eggs have been around much longer than chickens.
The birds aren't the only ones hurting with the warmest winter on record people haven't needed to buy nearly as much gas and electric to heat their homes this year.
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Rattlesnakes are ovoviviparous. They don't lay eggs.
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Rattlesnakes are ovoviviparous. They don't lay eggs.
Do you think AC will even know what that means?
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Rattlesnakes are ovoviviparous. They don't lay eggs.
Do you think AC will even know what that means?
Not only knows what it means, but, like all of us, except you, knows that ovoviviparous animals don't have placentas, but develop eggs with yolks that hatch internally, like he said.
Idiot.
Oh, so you looked at Wikipedia after being bitch slapped, eh?
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hooray now if you had only logged in we would know who to congratulate.
Also eggs have been around much longer than chickens.
The birds aren't the only ones hurting with the warmest winter on record people haven't needed to buy nearly as much gas and electric to heat their homes this year.
AND more importantly.
Temperature of egg incubation determines sex in Alligator mississippiensis
http://www.nature.com/nature/j... [nature.com]
This implies a lot of -- well you do the math
"temperatures less than or equal to 30 C producing all females, greater than or equal to 34 C yielding all males."
That is a lot of bull crock...
Re:time to add a new one (Score:5, Insightful)
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especially "earthquakes" and the spin of the earth.
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Re: time to add a new one (Score:3)
That list has a duplicated item. This is clear proof that the whole list has been fabricated by a conspiracy of neocons to drive their global agenda! I demand to see the emails of the authors!
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How the ever-loving fuck did this get modded +4 Informative?!?
Slashdot has been looking so much more positive lately (thanks whipslash) but the mods on this topic, WTF?
Another tech site (like El Reg) where a science topic can't be discussed rationally due to the denialist BS.
It's a fucking shame. Truly shameful that technologists let their personal tribal biases and politics get in the way of real, actual science.
you folkds just don't understand... (Score:2)
Actually, Justices Kagan and Scalia were hunting buddies... really [theatlantic.com]...
You liberals just don't understand that all of Washington is the same. You seem so desperate to hate on Republicans, but every attribute you come up with actually applies to both parties.
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But not bird fetuses, which is what really matters.