Amid Agony, Scientists Discover World's First Venomous Frog 88
sciencehabit writes: Some discoveries come with a price, and Brazilian biologist Carlos Jared's discovery of the world's first known venomous frog came with agony. When Carlos picked up a Brazilian hylid frog—a small, lumpy, green amphibian—while doing fieldwork, the frog raked him with spines hidden within its upper lip across the hand. He dropped the frog, and excruciating pain shot up his arm for the next 5 hours. It was known that some frogs secrete poison onto their skin but this species has tiny spines on their heads and upper lips that enable them to inject lethal venom directly into the bloodstream. C. greening's venom is twice as potent as that of the deadly pit viper, the researchers report.
It looks just like him (Score:5, Funny)
If they don't name that frog after Moe from the Simpsons, then I just don't want to know about it.
(Moe Sizlak: http://webpages.shepherd.edu/B... [shepherd.edu] )
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Places where everything wants to kill you (Score:5, Funny)
Amazon rainforest, Australian outback, Middle East, Somalia, Baltimore
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"Amazon rainforest, Australia [tvtropes.org], Middle East, Somalia, Baltimore"
Fixed that for you.
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Frogs (Score:2, Insightful)
Meanwhile some Amazon tribes have been using frog venom on their arrows and blowpipe darts for thousands of years...
And theres probably some joke about Jeff Bezos patenting it...
Re:Frogs (Score:5, Informative)
Meanwhile some Amazon tribes have been using frog venom on their arrows and blowpipe darts for thousands of years...
And theres probably some joke about Jeff Bezos patenting it...
Apparently you didn't read the summary let alone RTFA - they are talking about injectable venom, like a snake.
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Apparently you didn't read the summary let alone RTFA - they are talking about injectable venom, like a snake.
Umm, maybe you should go re-read TFA before pointing fingers.
There are no injectors on these frogs, they secrete venom ON THEIR SKIN then flail their spines to open and get venom into a wound. It would be perfectly feasible to harvest venom from these as if they had been typical poison dart frogs.
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Apparently you didn't read the summary let alone RTFA - they are talking about injectable venom, like a snake.
Umm, maybe you should go re-read TFA before pointing fingers.
There are no injectors on these frogs, they secrete venom ON THEIR SKIN then flail their spines to open and get venom into a wound. It would be perfectly feasible to harvest venom from these as if they had been typical poison dart frogs.
An injector is imply a mechanism that breaks the skin to introduce the toxin. Whether it is by coating or hypodermically does not change the injector mechanism.
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*typo: imply = simply. Also, I should be specific: "does not change the injector mechanism", by definition it does change. What I should have said was "does not change the fact that it is injected". A hypodermic injection occurs below the skin, a non-hypodermic injection is into and possibly under the skin depending on the depth of the injection.
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In this case it makes a big difference. "Injectors" are for predation (snakes, spiders, etc.) "Spines" are for defense (frogs, fish, rays, etc.)
Mod parent up (Score:2)
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Meanwhile some Amazon tribes have been using frog venom on their arrows and blowpipe darts for thousands of years...
And theres probably some joke about Jeff Bezos patenting it...
Apparently you didn't read the summary let alone RTFA - they are talking about injectable venom, like a snake.
Geez, this is a tough crowd tonight.
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they are talking about injectable venom, like a snake.
So they are talking about Bezos, right?
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Venom vs. Poison (Score:2)
Venom is something the animal can use to attack you with; poison is something that affects you if you attack the animal (or eat or breathe or otherwise get the animal, plant, or mineral material into your body.)
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Re: Frogs (Score:1)
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This is incorrect. The frog does NOT inject venom. The spines are simply venom coated.
The spines are coated in a toxin, which is "injected" when the spine drives into the skin, making it a venom.
Poison Darts ARE an Injector (Score:2)
Leave aside how you get the venom out of the frog (that's an exercise in applied bio-technology), poisoned darts and arrows are a technique for injecting it into a victim. Works just about as well if it's a venom that the original animal could inject into you by itself, or a poison that normally would only get into your bloodstream if you ate the animal, snorted it, or got it on a cut in your skin. (There are some poisons that only affect you if you eat and digest them, but they're not the kind that would
Re:Frogs (Score:5, Informative)
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Hmmm ... so if the Amazon tribes put it on pointy things, and can then "inject" it, are they venomous?
I realize it's a scientific distinction, but it really sounds like a small matter of semantics.
If it's chemically the same as poison, and administered via something pointy it becomes venom, that's an awfully small distinction. It sounds like if I put it in your drink, I've administered poison, but if I stab you with it it's venom.
I'd at least expect a different chemistry.
Re:Frogs (Score:5, Funny)
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Hmmm ... so if the Amazon tribes put it on pointy things, and can then "inject" it, are they venomous?
I realize it's a scientific distinction, but it really sounds like a small matter of semantics.
If it's chemically the same as poison, and administered via something pointy it becomes venom, that's an awfully small distinction. It sounds like if I put it in your drink, I've administered poison, but if I stab you with it it's venom.
I'd at least expect a different chemistry.
It's an important distinction for several reasons. Scientifically, specificity is always important. To a survivalist, they generally stay away from poisonous things but they can, with care/proper technique, use venomous things. Venomous things also generally create/store their own toxins where poisonous things can get them from another source, like poison dart frogs - their poison is actually from a plant that an insect feeds on which the frogs then eat & excrete. Take away that chain and they are n
Re:Frogs (Score:4, Informative)
The meaningful distinction is between poisonous animals and venomous ones. I guess I don't need to explain to you the implications on survival strategy that those two features entail.
But the GP seemed to make fun of scientists for discovering now what the Indians have known for ages. The case is that scientists know about poisonous frogs for a very long time, you know, by talking to the very Indians that have been using frog poison for ages.
By the way, AFAIK, you can not call a poison a venom just because if it's in a man made pointed object, because such an object is not a biological structure and therefore the human bearing it is not venomous.
Humans can be venomous (Score:2)
Biologically, we're not venomous (though bites or scratches inflicted by humans can get infected.) But somebody with a venomous attitude toward you may try to poison you, or kill you with a blunt instrument or sharp object.
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Venom means the animal can use it to attack you, as opposed to being passively poisonous if you eat it, which can still be a useful defense mechanism for a species, if not for the animal that gets eaten. But an animal that spits something poisonous into your eyes or nose would still be venomous even if it wasn't biting or stabbing you to inject it, as would an animal that bites or scratches you and then spits poison out of its mouth, even if it doesn't have fangs.
Poisoning is what venom does to you (Score:2)
It's venom if the animal can use it to attack you, but an animal (or plant or mineral) can be poisonous without being venomous. If a traditional hunter wants something to poison an animal or a traditional warrior wants something to poison an enemy with, in either case by using a dart or arrow or knife coated with the poison, they could use venom from a venomous animal, or they could use some other poison that's available. (Those poisons have a partial overlap with the poisons an assassin or a bad cook cou
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But I believe all of the animals listed inject their venom using hollow, needle like structures and actively pump the venom. These frogs are different, they secrete a poison which coats the outer surface of a spiny structure, like a poison tipped dart. So while the
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Inject = break the skin to introduce a toxin
Hypodermic Injection = inject a toxin under the skin
Poison = absorbed or introduced
Venom = injected
Toxin = poison, venom, etc
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You differ from Oxford:
I was simplifying and contextualizing, however, if you really need that to be decompressed for you:
"with a syringe or similar device" similar device = spike/tooth/claw/etc
"a liquid, especially a drug or vaccine" = a toxin
"drive or force" = the act of breaking the skin.
So Oxford and I agree, just they have a very limited contextualization to humans performing the injection with a medical device.
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Sorry, I now realize that English isn't your primary language.
Ad hominem much?
still disagree (Score:2)
Arguably, "inject" generally implies a hollow tube through which the material is forced. This also means that a larger dose of the material can be forced into the wound since the material is under pressure. So syringe, snake fangs, mosquito proboscis, spider fangs, etc. are all hollow and "inject" would be appropriate.
On the other hand, contact poisons (even on a barb or spin) would generally not be considered an "injection".
If I coat a knife with poison and stab you with it, I'm not "injecting" the poiso
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If you wipe the blade on skin, it's absorbed into the skin - not by the action of the knife. The action of the knife only allows transfer from one surface to another. Injection is pushing through a barrier, like the skin, to deliver the payload. Whether that payload is delivered by contact transfer or pushed in is irrelevant.
I ain't Kermit, motherfucker!! (Score:3)
I'm a bad motherfucking GANGSTA frog, and you in MY HOOD now!
Far Side (Score:1)
I can't be the only one picturing this happening to some scientists from a Far Side cartoon...
Re:Far Side (Score:5, Funny)
I hope they remembered their ducks.
Have we learned NOTHING from horror films... (Score:3)
...involving aliens?
If there is any doubt, even 1% doubt, that something is 100% safe, don't handle it. Get gloves, or a net or a trap, or something, but for fuck's sake, don't pick it up, at least, not without gloves.
Yes, I can read. I know frogs are not known to be venomous, thus the news story, but that doesn't mean that it isn't carrying a weird bacteria, or has a secretion that can cause an allergic reaction, or any number of things that can go wrong.
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If he was wearing gloves, he wouldn't have made this discovery, nor would he have discovered a new weird bacteria or a "Potential New Cancer Fighting Compound"* that causes an allergic reaction.
* Note this entire phrase was thrown in for Grant and Investor "throw money at me" purposes.
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Indeed. There are certainly ways of determining the "what would happen if..." without becoming a test subject yourself.
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Yes! Hand it to the ungloved undergrad!
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"If there is any doubt, even 1% doubt, that something is 100% safe, don't handle it. Get gloves, or a net or a trap, or something,"
Unfortunately, in real life there is no sinister background music to cue you that you should be doubting...
Are you sure that everything you touch has not been touched by someone with an infectious disease?
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Are you sure that everything you touch has not been touched by someone with an infectious disease?
No, but I'm pretty sure those guys arguing about whether the venom is injected touch something that hasn't been touched by anyone else, infectious or not.
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Listen for your video card's fan kicking to high speed than.
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is that an abortion joke ?
No, it was a hygiene joke. We know where your head is at. Rorschach test fail.
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Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Sometimes (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes science advances with the phrase "hmm, that's unexpected" and sometimes with the phrase "arghargharghargharghargh!".
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They should be more careful (Score:2)
They should be more careful choosing what to lick.