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Crime Medicine

Silk Road's Leader Paid a Doctor To Help Keep Customers Safe 110

Posted by samzenpus from the safety-first dept.
An anonymous reader writes: Two years after the fall of Silk Road, new facts about the saga are still emerging all the time. The latest revelation is that Dread Pirate Roberts, the leader of Silk Road, paid a doctor $500 per week to offer public and private counseling to customers of the site. DoctorX, also known as Dr. Fernando Caudevilla, became famous for his free work on the site. The fact that he was eventually paid a salary is being used by lawyers for Ross Ulbricht to argue that Silk Road emphasized harm reduction and was, on the whole, a huge improvement in safety for drug users.
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Silk Road's Leader Paid a Doctor To Help Keep Customers Safe More

Silk Road's Leader Paid a Doctor To Help Keep Customers Safe

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  • America's War On Drugs is a Failure (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 18, 2015 @03:58PM (#49721693)

    Billions of taxpayer dollars every year that could be allocated to education, repairing roads/bridges and other infrastructure (rail, anyone?) are instead spent on keeping substances illegal and locking up addicts.

    Millions of dollars worth of taxpayers' legitimate cash and bank account balances are stolen by the government every year through nebulous civil forfeiture laws. If you get pulled over on your way home from Las Vegas and you have a few thousand bucks cash in your car, consider that money gone, and probably your car too, all owned by the government now as part of the War on Drugs. They don't have to prove you guilty of any crime, or even accuse you of a crime!

    How many people, innocent or guilty, have been outright executed by police since the 70s using "OMG illegal narcotics" as a justification? How many tens of thousands of American citizens are in prison right now because they were caught carrying a plant that grows in the ground?

    Wake the fuck up and let's put an end to this nonsense.

    • Re:America's War On Drugs is a Failure (Score:4, Insightful)

      by g0bshiTe ( 596213 ) on Monday May 18, 2015 @04:26PM (#49721867)
      While I agree it's time to end it, I don't think those in power will want to give up their stranglehold on the cash cow it's become.
      • Indeed, the problem is how, in order to garner support for the War on Drugs, anyone using drugs was for years painted as a complete and utter social failure. Your son is smoking pot? Holy shit you better call the cops on his ass or tomorrow morning he will be shooting speed!!!!
        The fear of drugs was implanted so deep in our societies that anyone willing to call out the WoD on it's uselessness might as well claim he fiddles little children's weewees at night, he might generate a lighter backlash with this cla

        • anyone willing to call out the WoD on it's uselessness might as well claim he fiddles little children's weewees at night, he might generate a lighter backlash with this claim.

          No politician in our PC-heavy climate would even dare to think about it.

          It's not 1986 anymore and the "PC-heavy climate" is entirely in your head.

          http://www.westword.com/news/senate-medical-marijuana-bill-has-big-name-support-but-not-from-colorado-6594905

        • "No politician in our PC-heavy climate would even dare to think about it. "

          Oh, I think one [burlingtonfreepress.com] might at least. It is discussed quite openly in Vermont [mpp.org], and I seem to recall other states have legalized it as well. This suggests to me that more that one politician has been brave enough to speak truthfully on the subject.

          Frankly I always knew that weed would be legalized and Windows would finally be recognized as the garbage it is by most qualified people in technology. I'm just surprised it has taken the form

          • This suggests to me that more that one politician has been brave enough to speak truthfully on the subject.

            Legalization in the western states did not occur through politicians. It occurred through the referendum process, which few (any?) eastern states have. The politicians were mostly opposed to legalization. They couldn't afford the wrath of the police and prison guard unions.

      • You can't end the War on drugs, any more than you can end the IRS, too many other industries require it now.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by tnk1 ( 899206 )

        I don't know. We did get rid of prohibition. Granted, alcohol was a vastly more accepted drug at the time, but I think what is required is simply what is happening now: people waking up to the issue of the War on Drugs and taking action to get things decriminalized.

        I'm not a big fan of drugs. Far from it. Still, these people need to be getting treatment and not jail time.

        Drugs should be legal, controlled, and taxed. That tax money should go towards helping to eradicate dependence on drugs and not go to

        • "I'm not a big fan of drugs. Far from it. Still, these people need to be getting treatment and not jail time."

          Or, what with it being legal and all, they could just get their drugs! Most of the drug using population doesn't need rehab, and many others need it because they can't get enough because it is so expensive (e.g. Heroin addicts.)

          I know. I know. You didn't say that! Perhaps you didn't mean to imply it either, I don't know. It seems like many people here think that a person who does drugs automat

          • I used to think that way, but I don't think anymore that this would be a good idea. There are certain drugs that are illegal for a damn good reason. That shit IS deadly. Not because it's cut, not because it's made in a less than perfect process, but because the shit simply is dangerous. Crack being one, and Croc sure being the latest addition to the fold of the horrible few.

            Seriously, compared to that shit, heroin is a safe and sane drug. Which isn't so far from truth, though I'd not consider pumping that s

            • "I used to think that way, but I don't think anymore that this would be a good idea. There are certain drugs that are illegal for a damn good reason. "

              That is a ridiculous thing to say. While I agree with you that Meth, for example, is a horrible drug and should be avoided, that continues to be true regardless of legality. Keeping it illegal does essentially nothing to stop people from doing it, and people who don't smoke it are very unlikely to say "Hey, I really like the way that guys teeth are rotted o

              • "I used to think that way, but I don't think anymore that this would be a good idea. There are certain drugs that are illegal for a damn good reason. "

                That is a ridiculous thing to say. While I agree with you that Meth, for example, is a horrible drug and should be avoided, that continues to be true regardless of legality. Keeping it illegal does essentially nothing to stop people from doing it, and people who don't smoke it are very unlikely to say "Hey, I really like the way that guys teeth are rotted out! I think I'll try me some of that there Meth! if it becomes legal.

                Wrong as rain, Zeke.

                An acquaintance of mine, who has a past relationship with smoking the meth and the cocaine, has given everything up except cigarettes and whiskey.

                He would love to give up the cigs, and live as long as possible, healthily enough to enjoy the whiskey.

                Harder to Get.

                • "Wrong as rain, Zeke.

                  I can only assume your name is Zeke, and you are talking to yourself.

                  "An acquaintance of mine, who has a past relationship with smoking the meth and the cocaine, has given everything up except cigarettes and whiskey.

                  It seems like he gave all his Meth to you, because your post makes as much sense as a would your typical Meth-head right after they take a big blast.

                  Have a nice day Zeke!

                  • A poorly constructed post, with the microscope of hindsight, but the theme is spot on.

                    Making things illegal makes them more difficult to to acquire.

                    A person wishing to be shed of a chemical romance benefits from the difficulty. No?

              • I think it would be far more sensible to ensure that more interesting and less damaging alternatives are legal. If there's legal heroin from a stable and clean production, there's no need for desomorphine made in less than optimal circumstances with more toxic junk than active substance in the mix.

                Pretty much any "horrible" drug has a less dangerous and sometimes even better working alternative, with the "horrible" version only having a market because the cleaner version is either not available or more expe

                • Or you could, you know, make them all legal and have the better alternatives available. Most people will choose the safer alternative, but those who prefer to rot their teeth out can have at it! Why? Because, again, it is their life, not yours or mine. It really isn't all that complicated a concept, but people have bought into the bullshit idea that they have a right to decide what is OK or not OK for others. I'm not sure where that kind of self-important delusion comes from, but it is prevelant in mod

                  • I'm with you, if, and only if, these people get that information (and I mean information, not the usual scaremongering drugs-are-baaaaad bullshit) to make an informed decision AND I don't get to pay for it if they make a wrong one.

                    That provided, I'm with you. All the way.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by TheCarp ( 96830 )

              Actually Crock is making his point for him. Do you know what the really fucking saddest thing about Crock is? Seriously.... do you know?

              "Crock" would be safer than most other opiates if it was pharmaceutical grade, because it causes LESS REPIRATORY DISTRESS.

              Yes, "Crock" the nasty limb destroying hell on earth drug is itself.... the perfect example of why making drugs illegal doesn't work and causes more problems. Add to this that drug prohibition has failed to change addiction rates and you have....the same

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by tnk1 ( 899206 )

            To make myself clear, as you suspected, I don't think all people taking drugs need to go into rehab. I certainly don't need alcohol rehab for imbibing maybe a six pack a week or so.

            However, there are a number of drugs where you quickly develop both tolerance to it and also a strong addiction. That's a combination that makes for someone who will start to quickly drain their available cash resources to maintain their habit. That's when drug use becomes pathological. Even if it doesn't kill you or melt yo

            • I hope you weren't specifically writing to me in that post. That would be quite a bit like a kindergarten student trying to teach a college professor, frankly.

              "That's a combination that makes for someone who will start to quickly drain their available cash resources to maintain their habit."

              Again, you aren't grasping this concept. Legality, done right, will cause the cost to plummet. You'll have no more crime from the heroin user than you do the Alcoholic (less so actually, since they aren't piss drunk a

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by tnk1 ( 899206 )

                You appear to be under the delusion that you do have any sort of absolute personal freedom of the kind you espouse. In minor matters, you do, as long as your actions affect no one else. In major matters, that is more difficult.

                Personally, I feel that drug use is a minor matter, which is made into a major one by the War on Drugs.

                However, there are certainly scenarios where that use can affect others. Lower prices or not, if you do happen to over-use to the point you have trouble maintaining a job, and you

        • Alcohol is a far more "acceptable" drug than, say, pot. Because it has a negative side effect. You get a hangover. So you "pay" for having a buzz. With pot, this ain't the case.

    • The problem is that politicians aren't necessarily in the business of common sense, and police departments need their revenue, just like any other third world country. (And no, I'm not saying the US is a third world country, just that our police departments behave like one. Though third world countries may even be a little more honest, because they don't hide the fact that they need bribes to keep working.)

      Remember how Chuck Schumer ordered the DOJ to seize their domain name, and was royally pissed when he

    • Huh? What are you talking about, it's working great! We can incarcerate people and use them for forced labour, serving as a money maker for the prison complex and cheap labor too. We protect the interests of pharma corporations who'd have to compete with drugs that actually DO work against various ailments, maybe even cure them instead of treating them (which is a serious dent in the profit, it's far more profitable to treat than to cure) but have expired patents and could be pumped out cheaply, or even be

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        So what was the Dread Pirate Roberts 'SIC' really doing, keeping his addicts alive so that they could keep buying very addictive and very expensive drugs funded by the crimes drug addicts often commit. So good or evil hmmm, fucking as evil as hell and it is the thought that counts in this case. This is definitely the prosecution should really hammer home, keeping addicts going and keeping the drug fueled crime going. Less addictive drugs, sure no problem, doing this with really addictive dangerous drugs, r

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by TheCarp ( 96830 )

          Except for the fact that they were already addicts before they became customers, and that the alternative was that they do what exactly? Tell them to go elsewhere to someone who wouldn't even do that much?

          The only evil here is the people who make laws out of ignorance. Idiots who think drug laws work are the true evil and the ones responsible for the entire mess. Its sad that we have to allow prohibitionists to share the clean air and sunshine that the good people of the world enjoy.

          They are the ONLY ones t

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Maritz ( 1829006 )

        maybe even cure them instead of treating them (which is a serious dent in the profit, it's far more profitable to treat than to cure)

        This is where you jump the shark. I guess vaccines make people sick as well, huh?

    • Neither luck nor the law will likely often be ever in your favor.

      If you're carrying substantial cash back from Vegas: a) Good for you! Most of us do not, hence the billion dollar casinos and the million dollar light bills keeping that outfit lit up at night. b) If you have enough currency on you to make a civil servant drool, do not smoke skunk weed in the car. With a tail light out. And cocaine sequestered in the spare.

      I remember laughing at my girlfriend who was yelling at the television during the so

    • It depends on how you measure failure (Score:4, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Monday May 18, 2015 @08:15PM (#49723133)
      It's been a massive success at keeping the lower classes in their place. Here in Arizona we've got multi-million dollar homes right next to slums. You can't do that without a good solid pretext to go in and bust heads whenever the poors spill over. Drugs are great for that. If you're poor chances are good you're taking some form of drugs to cope with the effects of poverty. If nothing else it's the closest to medical care you can get. Now, think about what happens when a few of those poors wander into the wealthy neighborhoods. Maybe they're there to use a park, or take a kid to one of the nicer schools. But odds are good one of 'em has a joint or two. And with our drug laws being what they are you're pretty much guilty by association. If you get a chance look up _why_ marijuana is illegal some time (hint: Migrant farm workers smoked it).

      Then there's our whole private prison thing. As always, follow the money.

    • First get rid of the Patriot act, and use that money for roads. Then look at other waste. GWB was hysteric, and reacted out of fear. Fear, because he could not understand what was going on. He used Cheney as the brains, and it was Cheney who was the president behind the president.

  • Is that a new Mega Man boss?

  • But wasn't the defense claiming that Mark Karpeles was running the site at this point? Why should that get Ulbricht leniency if he wasn't running the site at that point? Does this mean his defense has finally given up on that ridiculous conspiracy theory?

  • Dr Feelgood (Score:2, Funny)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )

    Me: "Dr Boombatz, it hurts when I do this..."

    Dr Vinnie Boombatz: "Here's a scrip for Oxycontin. Go in peace, my son."

  • Govt Doesn't Care About User Safety (Score:5, Informative)

    by CanadianRealist ( 1258974 ) on Monday May 18, 2015 @04:32PM (#49721905)

    The "war on drugs" results in increased violence which increases the risk for everyone, not just the drug users. If the government was really concerned about the safety of drug users they could legalize and regulate everything and make it much safer. So far that hasn't happened.

    I'm impressed that Dread Pirate Roberts paid a doctor to counsel people, I just don't think that the government will be.

    Here in Canada the federal government tried to shut down a safe injection site in Vancouver. The site operated by the provincial government provided IV drug users with a safe place to shoot up. Everything need, except the drugs, was available there.. There were nurses present to offer help and advice, and to deal with any overdoses. The end result was (provably) fewer deaths among IV drug users. That made no difference to the federal government, they still wanted to shut the site down. Fortunately when they took the province to court, they lost - since there was proof of fewer deaths it was considered a health care issue, which is completely up to the province

    • Wasn't one of their defenses that after the "safe injection site" opened up, both legal and illegal sales of those specific drugs went down?

  • Once again: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 18, 2015 @04:38PM (#49721947)

    95% of the horrible things caused by "drugs" are in fact caused by the drug warriors turning a medical problem (addictive personality, self-medication for other problems) into a criminal problem. See also: prostitution.

    When you declare it - whatever it is - "illegal" you strip anyone who touches it from the protection of the legitimate legal/medical system. Especially if you have something essentially harmless like pot (Oh noes, a poor person might smoke a doob and be happy with their life for a night) that a lot of people will want to try, the result is that you'll eventually reach a critical density of people in areas who can't access the legal/medical system and as a result, society there goes to hell in a handbasket.

    Basically no matter how horrible the drug is - seriously, fuck meth - prohibitionism is guaranteed to make matters worse. It doesn't resolve the fundamental problem that most drugs are medically bad for you (Unless you're stupid enough to buy into "just say no!" which works about as well as the other well known form of abstinence-only education). It prevents anyone/everyone involved from having access to a legitimate, peaceful legal system to resolve disputes. It prevents government regulation regarding quality control. The moralizing/stigmatization actively prevents people with a medical issue from seeking medical assistance. If you want to reduce the harm done to society by drugs, you couldn't get much further from a useful solution than prohibition.

    But on the other hand, prohibitionism *does* go straight to the only honest impulse in all of religious fundamentalism: The hatred of anyone who seeks happiness in this life, doubly so if they are poor.

    • if you're going to go that route you also have to take aim at the underlining cause of drug abuse (poverty). Let's face it, when we talk about the war on drugs hurting people for whom it's a medical condition we mean poor people. If you're even upper middle class and you're busted for drugs you can get into a treatment program in no time. It's the poors that go to jail for using.

      But the thing is, what do you do with the massive underclass we have? They're uneducated and likely to stay that way because t
  • Too bad he also paid to have people killed. Otherwise, he'd be an okay guy, and I'd petition for his release. Womp womp. Yes, I know nobody actually died, but he didn't, at the time. Still paid to have people murdered, reluctantly or no.

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