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Space The Military United States

20-Year-Old Military Weather Satellite Explodes In Orbit 253

Posted by samzenpus from the go-boom dept.
schwit1 writes A 20-year-old U.S. military weather satellite apparently exploded for no obvious reason. The incident has put several dozen pieces of space junk into orbit. From the article: "A 20-year-old military weather satellite apparently exploded in orbit Feb. 3 following what the U.S. Air Force described as a sudden temperature spike. The “catastrophic event” produced 43 pieces of space debris, according to Air Force Space Command, which disclosed the loss of the satellite Feb. 27 in response to questions from SpaceNews. The satellite, Defense Meteorological Satellite Program Flight 13, was the oldest continuously operational satellite in the DMSP weather constellation."
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20-Year-Old Military Weather Satellite Explodes In Orbit More

20-Year-Old Military Weather Satellite Explodes In Orbit

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  • It was Terrorists! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Invade Mars immediately.

  • Even the military grade tech deteriorates. Surely it should withstand a two degree increase - especially over a century!

    • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:32PM (#49159871)
      This was a test of laser weapons. Either the USA destroyed it or someone else did.

      • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by sumdumass ( 711423 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:50PM (#49159999) Journal

        I doubt that, there are no sharks in space.

        Oh, you are serious. Well, that was my first thought too. Either a laser weapon or a small particle of something (meteorite) smashed through it causing a catastrophic failure..

        • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4, Interesting)

          by knightghost ( 861069 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @05:12PM (#49160121)

          Micro meteor is an option. So is a laser - the chinese have already been testing them. Where was the satellite over geographically when it exploded?

          • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Funny)

            by ubrgeek ( 679399 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @06:36PM (#49160513)
            > Where was the satellite over geographically when it exploded?

            The Earth.

          • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4)

            by Demena ( 966987 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @09:18PM (#49161353)
            Micro meteor a very unlikely option. There was heating before the explosion. A laser or its ilk? Quite possible. Now who would want to demonstrate the capacity to destroy space and orbital assets easily and cheaply at this political juncture? Russia, China, North Diarrhoea, Iran? I wonder what part of the world it was over?
            • This "build shit, destroy shit" cycle we humans seem stuck in is going do do us in some day. At least when we blow shit up on Earth it lands somewhere to be slowly buried over by soil. All that orbital debris is going to form a freaking shrapnel belt at some point and it'll be Russian roulette every time we launch and sipping tea in front of a Gatling gun to stay in orbit. Life is hard by its nature, but we seem hell bent on making it as hard as possible. Then again, maybe they used those old Lenovo ThinkPa
              • Some gear has something called a chemical battery.
                A chemical battery is a one use short duration power supply.
                I've never heard of one being used in a satellite, but the military doesn't give out specs on their satellites, which conceivably might have a need for such a resource.

            • Re: (Score:3)

              by TheCarp ( 96830 )

              Temperature spike could also be a runaway fault in the power supply. You have a power supply and a device likely full of hypergolic fuel for station keeping; I don't think system fault is really ruled out here either.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Stop watching TV, it is bad for you.

    • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AK Marc ( 707885 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:38PM (#49159905)
      Many satellites are hybrid solar+batteries. They have sun enough to run and charge, so in the shade, they run off batteries. Batteries fail, sometimes spectacularly. It's possible that there was a chemical reaction in the batteries that *caused*, not was the result of, the temperature spike. Then the battery failed, exploding.
      • "solar+batteries"

        Maybe they used old laptop batteries. ;)

      • Re:It should stand two degrees, for sure! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:58PM (#49160037) Homepage
        that is possible. Its also possible that this is false information to cover up a military test. or worse, someone other than the US military testing....

        • that is possible. Its also possible that this is false information to cover up a military test. or worse, someone other than the US military testing....

          So, a conspiracy, you reckon? (reaches for tinfoil hat...)

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AK Marc ( 707885 )
          Occam's razor. Which is simpler. A routine battery failure, or a complicated military test on a hostile satellite?

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Demena ( 966987 )
            Which is simpler? No one knows. Too many unknowns and imponderables. As a guess I would think the latter more likely.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by AK Marc ( 707885 )
              Not more likely. More simple. A common failure, with no people deciding to do anything, or an experimental test performed by a hostile entity that the US government is covering up part, but not all, of the details about the test? One is a simple mechanical failure. The other is an act of war, with a complex cover-up performed by the attacked nation.

              Don't answer what you would prefer the answer to be, or what you think is more likely, but look at the complexity of each of the options, and answer the que

              • The principle of Occam's Razor is not "simplicity" vs. "complexity". It states not to multiply entities unnecessarily, but that does not equate to simplicity.

                We have never seen a battery failure like this before (and there are very many of that type out there) so we are creating a new entity with introducing this type of battery failure to our list of known entities. That does not mean (under the principle of Occam's Razor) that it did not happen that way (battery failure) only that we should consider oth

                • A foreign entity wouldn't have targeted a 20 year old weather satellite. They would have hit a major new spy sat. The only one with an interest to target a bird that old would be the US. If the argument is that it was shot down with some energy weapon the most likely perpetrator is the USA.

                  • Re: (Score:2)

                    by Demena ( 966987 )

                    This was a discussion about the use of Occam's Razor. How is your reply relevant?

                    There is no claim from me that it was or was not at battery failure, that it was or was not an energy weapon.

                    But if were trying to send a message I would not be taking something out that was provocatively useful and expensive. That might get a reply that I don't want. You do not take out a person's (state, country, empire) assets, you demonstrate the capability to take them out. It is a good deal less provative and sends

      • My daughter has a Macbook Pro she is currently using as a doorstop [google.com], it looks a lot like one of the ones pictured.

  • Natural ways (Score:3)

    by hcs_$reboot ( 1536101 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:09PM (#49159753)
    An asteroid for instance?

  • The truth (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:10PM (#49159755)

    The truth is the explosion came just after a software update.
    Sources that want to remain anonymous confirmed the update included systemd.

  • Star Wars! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:11PM (#49159769)

    Explosion after a measurable temperature hike sounds more like a laser or maser attack than a collision. With a collision, there would not be much to measure.

    Ok, if the collision just severed some pipes or power or control lines, a temperature hike might also be part of the first consequence. But that would be boring.

    • Re:Star Wars! (Score:4, Funny)

      by SeaFox ( 739806 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:38PM (#49159915)

      Explosion after a measurable temperature hike sounds more like a laser or maser attack than a collision

      Really, and how does it sound in space?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AK Marc ( 707885 )
      It sounds like a battery had a fault, and ran hot, until it exploded. A laptop battery has a greater energy density than a hand grenade. So a sudden catastrophic failure would give the results observed.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Rockoon ( 1252108 )

        A laptop battery has a greater energy density than a hand grenade.

        20 year old laptop batteries?

        Maybe you should consider what you are saying before you say it.

        • Perhaps NASA battery tech from 20 - 25 years ago was more advanced than the cheap laptop batteries of the day? Maybe? Quite often military / space applications are the source of consumer tech down the line...

          • Re: Star Wars! (Score:5, Interesting)

            by mirix ( 1649853 ) on Monday March 02, 2015 @03:32AM (#49162621)

            These ran NiCd cells. Here's some TL;DR from NASA about a variant of NiCd they use(d), not sure if it applies here.

            http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oc... [nasa.gov]

            Short notes:
            Fancy NiCd, Higher density and sealed. They rely on precise chemistry to be hermetically sealed units (lean on one element, for limiting and only O2 production).
            High pressure at full charge (~60PSI at room temp), higher if things go south, Pressure drops with charge state.
            Excess discharge causes hydrogen production.

            So, tin can, pressure changing with charge cycles (metal fatigue over many cycles?), H2 production, O2 production... maybe there is some chance for catastrophic failure there.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AK Marc ( 707885 )
          I had a laptop in the '90s. It had a run time better than today's. Though the screen was shit. And the energy density didn't change greatly between then and now. Small improvements, but not massive. The biggest change from Ni-Cad to Li-ion is the memory effects and longevity, not energy density.

          And no, I'm not suggesting any particular type of battery was used. I would have no idea what the military would use in a satellite. Perhaps they were willing to pay the extra cost for a sealed lead-acid batt

    • The various sensors (IR and optical) on the thing would probably notice a massive amount of electromagnetic radiation hitting it. It's possible the frequency used was invisible to the onboard detectors, but that seems fairly unlikely. Much more probably it just had some kind of malfunction: the thing is probably loaded with mono-propellant and of course it has a battery, either of which could easily spontaneously explode if something went wrong.

    • People forget that these satellites have thrusters to adjust orbit & that typically have combustible propulsion fluids.

  • Well, I guess now we know... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Type44Q ( 1233630 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:16PM (#49159793)

    Well, I guess now we know that this was no weather satellite...

  • Hit by space junk. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Simulant ( 528590 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:16PM (#49159797) Journal
    It was bound to happen eventually.

  • chinese anti-satellite lasers (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Could be the latest test of the Chinese anti-satellite system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASAT_program_of_China

    The Chinese aimed a high power laser at a U.S. satellite in 2006 (without damaging it), and blew up one of their own weather satellites in 2007. They have tested a number of anti-satellite systems since then.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Perhaps. Where* was the satellite at or just before this event?

      *INB4 In space.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 )
      Uh huh. Do some math for me. A 1um laser fired out of a 1m aperture spreads to an 800m circle at an altitude of 800km. If you want to heat something 1m across with 1W, you need to have a total power output of 500kW continuous from the laser. The US Navy's laser program expects to top out at about 100kW (http://www.wired.com/2011/02/unexpectedly-navys-superlaser-blasts-away-a-record/). And you're telling me someone out there is firing a 500kW laser into space from a secret mountain lair. Possibly one that la

      • A 1um laser fired out of a 1m aperture

        Why are you using a 1 meter aperture, and why are you not using such a large aperture for focus at a distant point?

      • Re:chinese anti-satellite lasers (Score:5, Informative)

        by hankwang ( 413283 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @05:32PM (#49160223) Homepage

        "A 1um laser fired out of a 1m aperture spreads to an 800m circle at an altitude of 800km"

        You're off by a factor 1000. The divergence is about 1e-6 rad, which makes 0.8 m diameter at 800 km.

        Now another issue is that satellites tend to be wrapped in gold-coated foil, which will reflect 99% of the light at 1 micrometer. It would be difficult to overheat the body of the satellite, although the solar panels might be damaged more easily.

        • Whoops. But with your point about the coating, I'm only off by a factor of ten...which kind of puts the laser within the realm of the possible. The next item on the agenda: how much power do we really need on target to make it overheat given that it's designed to cycle between daylight and night, even if it is in whatever sun synchronous orbit it's in.
        • Could you use multiple independent lasers all aimed simultaneously at the same target to increase the effective yield to a power greater than what a single laser could achieve?

      • And you're telling me someone out there is firing a 500kW laser into space

        Or a *lot* of smaller ones. Either way, multi-targeting or power, it would have to be someone with a lot of money and organization.

  • My Bad (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:23PM (#49159829)

    Turns out those green laser pointers you get in the mail are a lot more powerful than you would think.

  • No obvious reason (Score:5, Informative)

    by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:34PM (#49159879)
    What no obvious reason? Either the batteries overheated and exploded (fuel and oxidizer packed close together and sitting for 20 years) or the fuel tank vapors exploded on their own (tends to happen with monopropellant--no need to additional oxidizers, just a random injection of energy). Russian rocket bodies used to explode in orbit from time to time from fuel vapors (undesired bipropellant mixing) until they were convinced to burn off all their spare fuel after they deployed their payload into its orbit.

  • So which overlord should we bow down to this time?

  • Exploded over Americas, Cooling Failure? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Irate Engineer ( 2814313 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:44PM (#49159955)
    This satellite blew up at 1715 UTC, and since it was in a sun-synchronous polar orbit, local noon would have put that over the Americas (North, Central, or South). This satellite was sitting under the direct sun for 20 years. If the radiator cooling system failed, things could heat up and fail very quickly (there is no wind up there, remember).

  • Its a warning shot... (Score:5, Funny)

    by david.given ( 6740 ) <dg@cowlark.com> on Sunday March 01, 2015 @04:53PM (#49160009) Homepage Journal

    ...telling us to stay the hell away from their base on Ceres.

    We should retaliate by beaming Youtube comments at them.

  • It's a good bet the Empire knows we're here.

  • Make sure no EMP-hardened helicopters have been stolen from Monte Carlo!

  • The Kessler Effect (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 01, 2015 @08:13PM (#49161031)

    We may have just lost Space:

    "The Kessler syndrome (also called the Kessler effect,[1][2] collisional cascading or ablation cascade), proposed by the NASA scientist Donald J. Kessler in 1978, is a scenario in which the density of objects in low Earth orbit (LEO) is high enough that collisions between objects could cause a cascade—each collision generating space debris which increases the likelihood of further collisions.[3] One implication is that the distribution of debris in orbit could render space exploration, and even the use of satellites, unfeasible for many generations.[3]"

    Source WikiPedia

  • They ALREADY figured out why - it's in TFA (Score:3)

    by jddj ( 1085169 ) on Sunday March 01, 2015 @10:41PM (#49161639) Journal

    From TFA:

    "The 'catastrophic event' produced 43 pieces of space debris, according to Air Force Space Command, which disclosed the loss of the satellite Feb. 27 in response to questions from SpaceNews."

    Just what kind of questions was SpaceNews asking, that the satellite would explode in response? They should STFU pretty quick, before we lose everything in LEO!

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