Neil DeGrasse Tyson Explains His Christmas Tweet 681
140Mandak262Jamuna writes Neil DeGrasse Tyson tweeted on christmas day what appeared to begin as a tribute to Infant Jesus, but ended up celebrating Isaac Newton. Apparently this was retweeted some 77000 times, far above his average of 3.5K retweets and caused many to be angry. He doubled down on it by tweeting about people being offended by objective truths. Then wrote a fuller explanation.
No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Insightful)
"On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642"
The only thing offensive is that some people continue to belief that their religious beliefs should be accepted as "universal truth".
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:4, Insightful)
The date was always meant as the day to celebrate Jesus' birth; it was not claimed to be the anniversary of his birth.
Plus Jesus may not have accomplished much beyond a few magic tricks until after he turned 30.
I wonder how many Christians will figure out that they might be better off having the dialogue amongst themselves about getting just their own beliefs straight.
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Interesting)
That's the thing; a lot of 'christians' do, in fact, think it to be a literal birthday.
The fact that they're so incorrect about a basic tenant of their faith is telling.
Also, anybody who claims Christianity is pro-family obviously hasn't read Luke.
I've always wanted to make a movie that was Matthew, Mark, Luke and John getting together to reminisce about the good old days, then getting into arguments over the differences in their gospels. 'Wait, that's not how *I* remember it...'
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, some people believe Dec 25 is a birthday (Score:3)
It's funny, I can't think of ever meeting a person who doesn't understand that it's a celebration, not an anniversary.
I know quite a few people who think it is an actual birthday. A few get quite hostile if you suggest otherwise. These are not highly educated people but they believe what they are capable of understanding.
Are there any Christian denomination that has as dogma a fixed date of 12/25 (or any other date) as the birth day anniversary of Jesus? I can't think of any.
Probably but that kind of misses the point. I would suggest that a huge percentage (probably the majority) of the devout don't really understand a lot of the finer details of their faith. Much like math class, just because you sat in the lecture doesn't mean they comprehended what was said. I think a
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It's funny, I can't think of ever meeting a person who doesn't understand that it's a celebration, not an anniversary.
I've met dozens who have specifically told me as such, and hundreds more who went along with them in beliefs. I know some born-again Christians in Texas who are just now, in the past two or three years, coming around to the idea that Jesus wasn't born in December, and that the choice of that day to celebrate the birth was a public relations move by the Catholic Church.
There's been quite a bit of backlash because of that fact. Born-agains are Protestant and very devout, so anything done by the Catholic Chu
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Funny)
That's the thing; a lot of 'christians' do, in fact, think it to be a literal birthday.
It's funny, I can't think of ever meeting a person who doesn't understand that it's a celebration, not an anniversary.
Indeed. Who could forget traditional songs like this one?
God rest ye merry gentlemen / Let nothing you dismay.
Remember Christ our Savior / Was born on an unspecified date in the late summer, but we celebrate the event on Christmas Day...
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Insightful)
What's even worse is that Jesus was born in the spring
I think that's exactly the kind of thought Neil Tyson wants people to avoid. There is absolutely no factual evidence Jesus was born at all, just some book written centuries after his supposed death that got more and more fantasias about his accomplishments as the years passed by.
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Well true, there was probably some guy named Jesus, just like here was probably some guy named John. That doesn't mean anything that the bible and religion attributes to him Jesus, has to be actually true.
It's not only his divinity that has absolutely no proof (besides denying logic), is everything else around him that lacks any proof as well. So, when I say that Jesus existence lacks proof, I mean, Jesus existence according to the Bible, even leaving all the magic and mythology aside, still lacks proof.
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Informative)
Close, but no banana.
The Dec 25th date was co-opted from the Roman holiday/feast of Natalis Invictus (= birth of the sun-god Sol Invictus), the date being chosen as it was then (re: procession of the equinoxes) the winter solstice when the days start to get longer again (i.e the sun is reborn). This holiday was created by the Roman emporor Aurelian in the 3rd century AD, and was co-opted by the Christians maybe a 100 years later.
Saturnalia was a separate - very popular - Roman holiday in (if memory serves) November/December, which FWIW had a present giving component.
However, the gross external form of modern Christmas - Tree, Holly, Mistletoe (i.e. general greenery) and Yule log all come from a different, northern European, winter solstice celebration called "Yule".
So, the Xmas feast/date comes from Natalis Invictus, the Tree/Holly/ etc from Yule, the presents *perhaps* from Saturnalia, and we'll have to concede the nativity (there's that "natalis" again) to the Christians, who prior to 300AD would never have celebrated Jesus' birth!
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Interesting)
You fudged the dates a bit. "Dies Natalis Solis Invicti" (Birthday of the unconquered Sun) was celebrated on Dec 25th. It was replaced by Christmas during the reign of Constantine.
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Informative)
The only thing offensive is that there are still people who think that Christmas is Jesus' (Joshua, Yeshua) was born on Christmas day.
Sorry, Christmas (Christ's Mass) celebrates the birth of Jesus (Joshua, Yeshua) of Nazareth, but doesn't actually claim to be his birthdate. Note that the Gospels that even mention his birth include elements that are not consistent with a December birth.
Okay, there are TWO things that are offensive - the other is that nominally educated people can't spell "believe".
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Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoever was offended apparently wants their beliefs to not only be the universal truth; but to get all the airtime, when they want it.
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"Whoever was offended apparently wants their beliefs to not only be the universal truth; but to get all the airtime, when they want it."
I'm a Christian and the tweet didn't offend me. I thought it was cute and I had forgotten Newton's birthday.
However, It was obvious by the language Tyson chose that he was deliberately using terms a Christian would use to celebrate the birth of Jesus. "On this day a child was born...". That's just not how we talk about ANYONE to celebrate their birth -- particularly on t
Re:No group "owns" any day on the calendar. (Score:4)
The offended parties are clearly in the Leibniz camp!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
Eh (Score:5, Funny)
Everyone has the right to mock, and everyone has the right to be offended. Some mocking is silly, and some offense-taking is silly. As a dispassionate third party observer, I'm having a hard time deciding why I should care about this episode.
But still, never forgiving him for Pluto. Next time pick on a planet big enough to fight back, tough guy.
Re:Eh (Score:5, Funny)
But still, never forgiving him for Pluto. Next time pick on a planet big enough to fight back, tough guy.
But if Pluto was bigger, it would actually be a planet.
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The problem with Pluto is that it is a Kuiper Belt object. If Pluto was closer to the sun and its orbit didn't go through Kuiper Belt, it would be considered a planet. That and when Eris was discovered, it became obvious that Pluto was just another Kuiper Belt object.
If you want Pluto to be a planet, then all decent size objects in the belt would have to be planets as well. So your options are 8 planets or 13 planets (that we know of at the moment).
Re:Eh (Score:5, Insightful)
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I see no mockery here. No mention of anyone or anything other than the person he is celebrating.
Then you are blind, or more specifically, have trouble noticing subtle distinctions and implications. This is similar to the guy who hears a joke about aliens and light-speed travel, then spends five minutes trying to explain that it's impossible.
Re:Eh (Score:5, Insightful)
No, but his followup was intended to offend Christians....along the lines of..."A pagan holiday, which became a religious holiday, which became a commercial holiday"
Reciting unvarnished facts without a single loaded adjective is offensive to Christians? That says much more about Christians than it does about astrophysicists.
Only people offended (Score:5, Insightful)
The only people offended are the religious people who dont really know anything about their religion.
Re:Only people offended (Score:5, Insightful)
Your wife was offended by a tweet celebrating Isaac Newton because it could be construed to relate to Jesus, because of a shared birthdate, even though she isn't christian? Perhaps he should of said "the only people offended are fools and religious people who don't really know anything about their religion." because that's one of the most retarded examples of someone being offended for no reason I've seen.
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That she didn't have anything else to be offended about.
For fuck's sake people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some conservatives seem to hate him just for being a smart black guy who is associated with science. He's not even really an outspoken liberal or anything. He's just a smart black guy and it drives them CRAZY.
Re:For fuck's sake people... (Score:4, Insightful)
Who exactly is this them? I know very few people who have an opinion either way regarding Tyson.
Re:For fuck's sake people... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some liberals seem to cry racism where none exists.
I find it hard to understand the rightwing usage of "liberal". When we study State Theory, the US constitution is used as the greatest example of a Liberal Constitution. John Locke, one of the fathers of liberalism, preached basically the same thing right-wingers do.
The only possible explanation for this is the US education system being extremely flawed, and people using the words "liberal" and "liberalism" don't know what they mean. Liberalism is pure right-wing.
Do no confuse the Liberal Party with liberalism. Do not confuse the Democratic Party with democracy. Do not confuse the Republican Party with republic. Or are members of the Republican Party anti-democracy? Are members of the Democratic Party anti-republic?
Considering how often and loudly people talk about politics, one would expect they would take the time to at least study it a little bit.
Maybe you should say "Some members of the liberal party seem to (...)", or "Some left-wingers seem to (...)". Even if you say "socialists", which would still be wrong, wouldn't be as wrong as saying "liberals".
Re:For fuck's sake people... (Score:4, Insightful)
while plugging his fascist social programs
So what you're saying is, you dont know what you're talkng about, and are still confused on the defintions of many of the words you are using, thus proving the GP's point when he stated "Considering how often and loudly people talk about politics, one would expect they would take the time to at least study it a little bit."
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Of course, he had to use the Julian Calendar to make it "true", since under the Gregorian Calendar, Newton was born in January of 1643....
Re:tonight at 11 (Score:5, Insightful)
To be fair, though, that's the date Newton would have understood and recognized. England didn't adopt the Gregorian calendar until 1752, and Newton had been dead for several decades by then.
Re:tonight at 11 (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, he had to use the Julian Calendar to make it "true", since under the Gregorian Calendar, Newton was born in January of 1643....
Actually, that is both right and wrong. Newton was born on Christmas day. You can't change the frame of reference for just one, while leaving the other intact.
Damn that Pope Gregory XIII... (Score:5, Funny)
Damn that Pope Gregory XIII. He should have left the calendar as it is. It would prevent any alchemists or astronomers born on January 4 from being praised on their birthday when it gets shifted to December 25. What was he thinking! So much for papal infallibility.
Why do they care what he thinks? (Score:4, Insightful)
Back to the Future (Score:5, Interesting)
Dec 25th (Score:4, Insightful)
Jesus Christ was not born on December 25th
It just happens to be a day that mopst western Christians celebrate His birth.
Like USians celebrate Washingtons birthday on a monday
And some in the commonwealth celebrate the Queen's birthday on the 1st monday in June, and others on the 2nd monday in June, her actual birthday is April 21 which has significance to another Religion
He is my hero. (Score:5, Insightful)
Any scientist that is absolutely OK with pissing off uneducated rabid republicans is a hero in my book.
Carl Sagan and others had no problems calling the uneducated what they are. And none of the best human beings on this planet backed down in the face of religious stupidity.
Just Ask Galileo and Giordonano Brunio what it was like to be imprisoned by a bunch of idiots in power.
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Martthew 24:10 (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll throw my two cents worth into the noise. I am an Orthodox Christian clergyman, and I think Neil DeGrasse Tyson's tweet is humorous, as well as objectively true. I am at a complete loss why anyone would be angered by it. People are so quick to hate these days, for no reason whatsoever. Truly we are in the end times.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Tyson's job is to explain things to the masses.
It's his job.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
I actually read Mr. Tyson's post. I found no hamstering in it. Your problem appears to be with Slashdot characterizing it as an "explanation". In fact, it didn't contain any explanation about the motives or meaning of the tweet. Perhaps it is time to stop blindly believing what the news media feeds you, including Slashdot's slapdash editors.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Informative)
I don't quite know how to address this other than to say that I don't think anything you've said in this thread makes any sense. My best guess is maybe you didn't read his actual explanation and assumed it said something it does not?
Point by point:
- The (strange) strawman about a vegan who hates McRibs is an argument about why we shouldn't get mad at Tyson if he didn't make an explanation, but it does not argue against making an explanation in the first place. It's the one point where I agree with you, but it's completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.
- Explaining something to the masses does not mean you lost anything.
- Giving into criticism is not what he did (pulling his tweet or apologizing would be giving in).
- In this case I feel he was right not to give into criticism, but in general, I don't think it's good to imply that giving into criticism is necessarily wrong.
- I don't see any appeasement from Tyson.
- Talking about a thing doesn't in any way imply that what you previously said about that thing may be wrong.
- I had to look up "hamstering" on urban dictionary, and I have to disagree that he did that at all.
- "It's not what men do"? That's a literary flourish without any meat behind it.
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Obviously they do, since Tyson did and is a man. Why should he, or anyone for that matter, care what someone else thinks their particular configuration of genitalia obligates them to?
Be a hamster or be macho, but if you're either just to fulfil other people's expectations, you're really nothing but a puppet.
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Yes, but you are a nobody. Dr. Tyson is an advocate for science, so alienating 40% of the population isn't really a good thing.
"and that's not what men do."
Men don't clarify things that get mistaken? Seriously?
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Interesting)
a) You know that "hamstering" isn't a word, right?
Hamstering is indeed a word, ffs it was used in the previous two posts, this now being the third. It is now an established word.
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And a perfectly cromulent one, IMO.
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I think I just pulled my hamstering while running away from this conversation.
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Tyson paid respect to the birth day of a very important historical figure (who happened to be a devout Christian too). How is that an attack on Christians? Only the most narrowminded people would be able to see it that way.
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We follow the Gregorian calendar. Newton was born on December 25th of the Julian calender. Newton's birthday isn't for another 6 days.
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I learned today that there was a disagreement among Christians as to when their god was born. If one group follows one calendar and the other group follows a different one, and they both say December 25th, who was right? I find that kind of amusing.
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I'm a conservative [read: slightly on the conservative side of dead center, with the added bonus of holding views that piss off my friends on both sides of the aisle] evangelical Christian, and I didn't see anything at all offensive about his posts. I've forwarded a couple of them on to my Christian and non-Christian friends. Really, I think this whole thing is an attempt by both Tyson and folks who make a career out of hating him to get media attention.
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Your fatwa envy makes me embarrassed for you. People like you are the worst.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4)
Nah. Even LoB was clearly intended as a story about a different guy. They even showed Jesus in the movie, to emphasize that this is a different person they are talking about.
It was a story about someone being popularly deified when they clearly weren't in fact a deity. That certain Christians took the depiction of this possibly happening as an attack on their own faith says a lot more about their own insecurities than it does about the movie. (This is coming from a Christian, btw.)
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That doesn't reflect well on Islam but it's hardly a justification for not taking a pop at Christianity. Unless of course you want Christianity to shelter under the Islamic umbrella of fear?
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Only Slashdotters would defend this guy for what was clearly a calculated and unwarranted troll towards Christians on their numero uno holiday.
Commercial interests have turned the Christmas holiday into a shop-till-you-drop marathon, and you think Christians are under attack from a simple factual tweet? If he had posted "If you love Jesus, you'll love these deals on Telescopes!" then it'd have been ok, right?
Really, does Tyson have nothing better to do than use Twitter to mock Christians? Are there no pressing issues in the world of astrophysics that could use his towering intellect and staggering genius?
The most pressing issue that he's been working hard to fight against is the lack of science literacy in the country, and open hostility to Science to the point where a science educator can't post a Christmas Day related fact without coming under attack -- and at least Newton was actually born on Christmas (depending on your calendar), as opposed to Jesus -- most biblical scholars agree he was not born on Dec 25th, even if they disagree on when his birth was.
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Christians on their numero uno holiday.
Easter is the numero uno holiday for Christians. Christmas is second (or third depending on who you ask).
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
At the very least, we should also despise Newton if anyone who ever favored him committed a crime.
Based on the number of people who use weapons based on Newtonian physics to kill, Newton may be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
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At the very least, we should also despise Newton if anyone who ever favored him committed a crime.
Based on the number of people who use weapons based on Newtonian physics to kill, Newton may be the biggest mass murderer of all time.
Haha, I was just going to post that, with the emphasis on how Newton masterminded the only historical deployment of nuclear weapons against civilian population centers.
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He was either very tone deaf when he did that or he did it on purpose.
If he did it on purpose, maybe he wasn't not looking to start a war, but he definitely wanted to be mischievous.
Re: Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Informative)
I didn't ask him to, I didn't hire him to, I didn't indicate any desire on my part for him to do so.
So his tweet just randomly showed up without you following him, or without someone you follow retweeting it? I'd contact Twitter, it sounds like you've found a bug.
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He is director of the Hayden Planetarium, a job which clearly is all about explaining things to the masses.
He has also become a pop figure who does things like the Star Talk Radio podcast, which is all about answering science questions and explaining the universe to the masses in a fun fashion.
However you want to slice it, Mr. Tyson has made it his life's work to be one of many ambassadors of science who have made it their life's work to explain science and the universe to the masses and has done a pretty g
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever heard the term flamebait?
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Informative)
Except he never intended it to be flamebait.
There's two general camps among science communicators, there's one camp that goes straight for the hard truths and controversial subjects with the idea that you fix the root cause and the rest is easy, this tends to be the Richard Dawkins camp.
The other side basically says communicate as much as you can but try to avoid offending people by being non-controversial as possible, I've always thought of that as the Neil DeGrasse Tyson camp.
The tweet here essentially a corny joke ie "huh, Tyson is writing about the birth of Jesus, I didn't think that was his thing... ohh Newton, now I get it, haha Mr. Tyson". There is nothing flamebaity or controversial about it as he intended it.
The problem is the religious right is embracing a culture of victimhood to compete with the left, attempts to reduce the degree of Jesus talk around Christmas become an attack to their right to talk Jesus, hence the "war on Christmas".
Viewed through that light the joke now becomes "Hey Jesus-folk, I'm on your side putting Jesus back in Christmas... ha ha! Just kidding, it was just Newton!"
And since they're actively looking for reasons to become offended, they become offended.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Insightful)
On the other hand, being misunderstood does nothing to contribute to improving the education and awareness of those who misunderstand.
With a succinct message, Tyson started a discussion that spread to thousands of people. Some people misunderstood, and despite the elegance and artistic quality of his written words, that misunderstanding tarnishes his reputation in their minds, and that extends to everything he supports - most notably science and an appreciation of the beauty of the observable world without religious connection. By explaining his meaning clearly, and expressing no wish to offend, some of those people will see the mistake for themselves, and open their minds again to science.
It's not about winning or losing, or of being the stalwart champion of misdirection. It's a matter of graceful interaction with other humans.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Insightful)
In this case, Tyson tweeted something that was orthogonal to Jesus(not that he is actually suspected by scholars of even the distinctly pious persuasion of having been born conveniently on a pagan holiday that needed assimilating; but that's another matter). It didn't denigrate him, question his existence, use the phrase 'purportedly magic jew', laugh at the peasants who were putting up their nativity idols, none of that. It just wasn't about him, it was about Isaac Newton, who was born on that day, and who was a pretty damn titanic figure in the history of science(although also intensely pious, though his religious works are not of much broader interest).
It is, arguably, rather interesting that he provoked a minor firestorm just by talking about someone else. It's a commonplace that some anti-jesus flamebait spread in the right areas would have caused a moderate shitstorm, and so nothing would be proven except one's own somewhat juvenile sense of humor by doing so; but that isn't what he did: he just celebrated a different guy(and pretty damn arguably a worthy one) who shared the same birthday. The fact that that caused a ruckus is frankly interesting, informative, and perhaps even food for thought for those offended. Is Jesus really incapable of gracefully sharing a birthday with one of history's more remarkable physicists? He certainly manages to share it with a load of consumerist gluttony without much comment.
I (mostly) grew out of baiting people purely for sport years ago; but I still think that there is room for discomfort, even unrest, in the context of discourse; and this seems like a good example. Not just flamebait, which would be trivial; but prove nothing; but willing to risk kicking up a fuss. Hopefully a least a few people asked themselves why it was so necessary that exclusivity be defended(especially when other 'meanings of Christmas' like family, presents, pagan conifers, assorted ritualized meals, etc. are handled in parallel without issue. If Jesus can share a birthday with the Jones' traditional honey glazed ham, surely he can share one with Isaac Newton?).
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:5, Informative)
Even if one wanted to do a misdirection about Christmas in a tweet, there are tons more offensive targets one could have chosen related to 25 december:
* The Malkh festival formerly practiced by the peoples of present-day Chechnya, celebrating the birthday of the sun.
* Pakistan celebrates the birthday of the Great Leader, Muhammad Ali Jinnah
* Residents of Chumbivilcas Province in Peru celebrate Takanakuy ("To Hit Each Other"), a fighting-themed holiday where the goal is to get back at people who wronged you during the year, while wearing a traditional ski mask.
* Michael Palaiologos, ruler of Constantinople, has his 11-year-old second cousin blinded so that he is no longer qualified for the throne.
* Columbus runs aground in Haiti due to incompetent management, then proceeds to abuse and enslave the natives that helped rescue his men and supplies.
* Conquistador Pedro de Valdivia is defeated in battle, captured, then roasted and eaten.
* A drunken mutiny involving 1/3rd of the candidates at West Point is finally put down by force and their whiskey is taken away.
* Future president Zachary Taylor leads his troops into an obvious ambush by the Seminoles, leading to serious losses; gets promoted for it.
* The Vietnamese National Party is founded and quickly begins a campaign of assassinations against French officers and Vietnamese collaborators.
* Henri Nannen, later-rehabilitated Nazi propagandist, born.
* A 7,6 earthquake kills 275 people in China
* Scottish nationalist students steal the British coronation stone.
* 44 untouchables in India massacred in revenge for them campaigning for higher wages.
* Cyclone Tracy destroys more than 70% of the buildings in Darwin, Australia
* Jesus Christ, aka messianist Marshall Fields, drives a Chevy Impala through the White House gate.
* Charlie Chaplain dies
* Porn actress Joanna Angel born
* Deposed Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceauescu and his wife are captured, convicted by tribunal, and summarily shot.
* The "underwear bomber" fails
* Plane crash kills 27 people near Shymkent.
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The "underwear bomber" fails
Just don't start celebrating this with gifts pertaining to the event.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Insightful)
It is, arguably, rather interesting that he provoked a minor firestorm just by talking about someone else. It's a commonplace that some anti-jesus flamebait spread in the right areas would have caused a moderate shitstorm, and so nothing would be proven except one's own somewhat juvenile sense of humor by doing so;
About 2000 years ago, there lived a man that may have agreed with you. I'm sure you have heard of him, you may even recognize him by his initials, JC, as everyone still talks about him today. We know that he was born unlike most men. And as he matured, he had many followers, but also had those who were afraid of the would-be-king, so they put him to death. Yes, Julius Caesar left a legacy that influenced generations. Anyway, what was your point?
Kind of Disappointed in You (Score:5, Insightful)
Tyson's life work is education, when he explains something to the masses and someone learns something, he wins. You, on the other hand, want him and others to be losers. This says a lot about you.
Re:Kind of disappointed in him. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dude, wait... (Score:5, Funny)
Why are you blaming Neil?
Blame Isaac for having the NERVE to be born on December 25th! After Jesus was (not) born on that date NO ONE ELSE should be born then!
Re:Dude, wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
It isn't a dick thing to do something perfectly reasonable even though you know some completely unreasonable people will be upset by it. Everything he said was true, nothing he said was critical of Jesus/Christianity/Religion. If someone is that much of a dick that they can't appreciate that Newton was an incredibly important person born on the 25th December without seeing it as slur on Jesus then fuck them.
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Surely by starting the tweet as he did - "On this day long ago, a child was born" - it automatically dismisses any chance of it being about Jesus because, as discussed further up, every true Christian knows that the 25th is a celebration of Jesus' birth and not an anniversary.
If people wish to claim that the opening was an obvious misdirection, then they need to accept that Jesus was in fact born on that day. However, it seems to be the generally accepted stance that he was not...
Oh no. . . (Score:4, Funny)
. . . he demonstrated a kernel of cleverness. He's a witch! We must burn him for upsetting the simpleminded villagers!
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Re:Dude, wait... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Dude, wait... (Score:4, Insightful)
voluntary prayer is discouraged (if not banned) in public schools
Yes, but it's not because for lack of want by the religious people. It's not a matter of them being tactful towards the atheists. It's simply because the law requires separation of church and state.
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Banning prayer in school isn't tact by the religious to the non-religious. It's part of the separation of church and state, which became a big thing after two Christian groups had a violent falling out with each other in Europe and a bunch fled to the the US. The idea was that if you kept overt religious practice out of government and public activities (like education) then everybody (all Christians, or at least the more mainstream) could get along.
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Of course these guys are trolls. Only imbeciles would believe in such a preposterous being in the first place. All glory to the IPU! [wikipedia.org]
Re:Dude, wait... (Score:5, Insightful)
What part of his tweet constitutes telling Christians that Christmas is "bullshit"? The part where he celebrates Isaac Newton's birthday, or the part where.... Oh, wait; that's the ONLY part. It is not mutually exclusive with celebrating the birth of Jesus, and nowhere in the original tweet - or the following explanation - does he imply that it should be.
Should the world at large be banned from honouring the memory of anyone else on that date, just because it happens to be a Christian religious festival? Sounds remarkably like religious discrimination to me.
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Making a cute joke by changing the expected ending of a bit of useless glurge to something unexpected doesn't count as "being a dick".
I'm certainly not going to bust into any of Dr. DeGrasse-Tyson's celebrations and go out of my way to tell him why the reason he celebrates it is bullshit
His original tweet doesn't say anything negative about Christmas or Jesus. He didn't comment on how the church
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Making a cute joke by changing the expected ending of a bit
I'm not sure I'd classify the structure of the tweet as a "cute joke" I think Tyson was drawing a parallel that Newton was *also* a great man that changed the world and should be celebrated on the day of his birth.
Personally, I would argue, given the countless wars and violence attributed to Christianity and other religious beliefs, versus the zero attributed to Issac Newton, that Newton has been better for this world than Jesus - or, more specifically, his followers.
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Its called "trolling", you cant tell me that he didnt realize the reaction people would have.
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Yes, and you could also inform someone on their birthday that theres actually nothing special about the day astronomically and that they're quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Its just that you probably arent going to get invited to his birthday party ever again, and while you could make the same remark about objective fact that Tyson did, you'd still be a jerk.
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Except he didn't tell them that. He didn't say anything remotely like 'Jesus's birthday is unimportant in the grand scheme of things'. However, for the sake of argument, let's say his tweet does convey that message.
He didn't post his tweet on a Jesus loving forum. He didn't make a press release on fox news. He sent this message *to people who follow him on twitter*. Assuming he actually said "Jesus's birthday is unimportant to the grand scheme of things" (which he didn't) in this forum, he is saying it to a
Re:He must enjoy preaching to the choir. (Score:5, Insightful)
What is funny is so many people will just not get it.
It doesn't matter if he is right which he isn't since that day means different things to different people.
He has just alienated a large number of people for no good reason. His tweet will change no a single mind. All it will do is get praises from his fans.
That is not good science, education. or frankly good manners.
Bullshit. People that were upset are just pissed as someone tweeted something that wasn't about Jesus. As he has stated in his full post, he's tweeted about Jesus before and didn't get the type of uproar that he got over this tweet.
People just need to calm down and realise that the world doesn't resolve around their religious event on a particular day of the year. You won't change the mind of anyone that is offended by his tweet anyway.
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That was kind of my thought, too. I like Tyson. I tutor physics and math (mainly calculus) for young men who were in trouble with the law and are now trying to go to community college, and I'm constantly extolling the genius of Isaac Newton to my students. The co-discovery, the interrelationship between calculus and classical mechanics is just delightful to me in a deeply satisfying way.
I'm also Catholic. I was not offended by Tyson's tweet, but I did cringe. "Man, that's not going to go over well..." It wa
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What's bad about scientists who like to teach the general public becoming popular? that's a good thing in a civilization where ignorance of science is a huge problem with vast repercussions.
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He didn't fold (where's the back down?). He blatently and successfully trolled the Christian fundamentalists**, and his follow-up was little more than a gloat.
** and/or anyone ignorant enough of history to think that Jesus was born on 25th Dec and/or was the basis of the Dec 25th holiday we now call "Christmas"