Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Stocks 147
BarbaraHudson writes Experimental research has shown that small amounts of estrogen in waste water can lead to rapid large-scale changes in fish populations. From the article: "The lead researcher of a new study is calling for improvements to some of Canada's waste water treatment facilities after finding that introducing the birth control pill in waterways created a chain reaction in a lake ecosystem that nearly wiped out a freshwater fish. 'Right away, the male fish started to respond to the estrogen exposure by producing egg yolk proteins and shortly after that they started to develop eggs,' she said in an interview from Saint John, N.B. 'They were being feminized.' Kidd said shortly after introducing the estrogen, the number of fathead minnow crashed, reducing numbers to just one per cent of the population. 'It was really unexpected that they would react so quickly and so dramatically,' she said. 'The crash in the population was very evident and very dramatic and very rapid and related directly to the estrogen addition.'" Estrogen pollution in waterways has been an issue for over a decade now.
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Yeah, I thought we were also dosing farm animals with massive amounts of estrogen to improve milk production.
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As I recall studies have been done confirming that women on the pill have many times (potentially hundreds) as much estrogen in their urine as the baseline. The quantities of estrogen *can't* be minute - they have to so excessively overwhelm the womans natural hormone levels that they render her infertile, and they have to be able to accomplish that despite her body's attempts to restore balance to her system as quickly as possible to avoid being rendered genetically irrelevant.
As for BPAs and other pseudo
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I've yet to see any that correlate estrogen in contraceptive pills with the quantities of estrogen in waste water. Modern contraceptive pills use minute amounts. Additionally, our bodies produce estrogen in the liver,adrenal glands, breasts (in women), and fat cells (are increased obesity rates producing more waste estrogen?). We put far larger amounts into some cosmetics and shampoos. We also use synthetic estrogen compounds in substantial amounts plastics in our food packaging and containers. They've long
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And as I speculate above, are they controlling for phytoestrogens released by the decay of aquatic plant life? which in lakes tends to increase over time with the natural decline of a lake into a swamp. (Unless dredged out by humans.)
Waste dumped straight into the ocean (Score:2)
They say they screen out the larger pieces of solid waste, but everything else (drugs, detergents, cooking waste, every sick person's waste) goes straight into the ocean.
I just hope they never have a person with HIV, Hepatitis C, Ebola, STDs, Clostridium difficile, Salmonella, or MRSA living or visiting there.
~~
Ban birth control pills (Score:1)
Can't be good for humans either (Score:4, Interesting)
This might explain why grown men are more and more behaving like frightened old women these days.
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Even if it had an effect on humans also, I would expect the effect to be much diminished compared to fish as your average human has much more body mass than your average fish.
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But consumes more water?
Because of osmotic pressure, freshwater fish are hypertonic and absorb water continually. Their kidneys work pretty hard to keep the correct electrolyte balance.
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The article doesn't really say what length of time the "rapid" change in the fish constitutes, but the fish's lifespan cannot be long, so we could assume the change was visible within 6 months of introducing the estrogen? Seems fair to me. Compare that to a 30 year old male being exposed to the same drugs all his life. I wouldn't be so quick in dismissing the effects.
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The "much diminished" wasn't referring to population levels of the fish, but the effect that the hormone had on human males. The average human male is much bigger than a fish so it should take a lot more of the hormone to have an effect. Even then, the effects might not be the same. The hormone's effect on fish and humans might vary wildly.
As for human males "behaving feminized", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to guys who actually express feelings, cook, and clean up around the ho
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Are you referring to...
I'm referring to hormone biochemistry. You've gone off topic.
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Please elaborate. Hormone biochemistry is physiology, you're claiming a change in behavior. Exactly what behavioral changes do you observe that lead you to believe there's a biochemical change?
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Behavior is a function of brain physiology. What are you saying?
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Absolutely. However, it's an extremely complicated and poorly understood relationship, and a change in physiology does not necessarily imply a change in behavior, nor vice versa. Nor does a change in hormone levels necessarily imply either. I'm merely asking for some evidence for Livius' claims.
Livius: Human males are behaving feminized, even though females are not selecting for that trait.
Jason: As for human males "behaving feminized", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to...
Livius:
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...a change in physiology does not necessarily imply a change in behavior...
Depends on what part of the brain, but the brain is responsible for behavior. Any change in behavior is a result of physiological change in the brain. You'll see it in an MRI. There's no chicken/egg thing here. The brain does it all, and then tries to deny it :-)
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Okay, but only if you include the "software" and "data" as well, which presumably has some physiological component that should be weighted far in excess of the direct physical alterations. I give you the anecdote of the African student in America who was at long last informed that women here consider strong body odor to be unpleasant rather than attractive. Overnight his bathing behavior changes dramatically in response to the minute physiological change associated with learning of a cultural difference (
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Oh, now you're saying "significant"... I don't know what that means.
Yes, neurobiology is complicated, but the brain creates the thought, not the other way around.
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Would you prefer "measurable with current instruments"?
>the brain creates the thought, not the other way around.
I beg to differ - there's a definite feedback loop in action, changes on either front can modify the other.
Consider how long-term meditation practitioners have been shown to have anomalous brain structures apparently related to attention and compassion, and randomly selected experimental subjects who have participated in extended meditation practice begun to form similar anomalies.
We are anima
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You seriously don't think that's 'much diminished' compared to a 99% drop in population?
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This might explain why grown men are more and more behaving like frightened old women these days.
Maybe that's what happened to Stephen King.
Take your pick, fish (Score:2)
a) estrogen in the water
b) more kids who will one day fish.
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Well, "one day fish" is a bit silly. But larger populations of us humans do cause greater ecological harm.
In places where wastewater treatement isn't up to snuff, the fecal coliform bacteria causing complete ecosystem collapse. Which is more than a little worse than the stressors placed by estrogen.
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C) The IUD. (that the drug companies keep bad-mouthing because it is not a continuous revenue stream.)
Cities (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the problems with cities is that they concentrate pollution. One of the dirty secrets of cities is that their governments do the bare minimum required to get rid of their waste. I remember growing up on the Jersey Shore and some days the beaches would be littered with tampon tubes because NYC just dumped their sewage offshore. When you're five, you just don't understand what's happening - I'm surprised our parents let us spend the day in that water.
The trouble is, these governments do everything they can to externalize the costs of living in the city onto the people (and apparently minnows) who don't. The wastewater treatment plants discussed here could absolutely destroy the estrogen before releasing it into the environment - but the sewage bills might have to double to make that happen. The city folks would undoubtedly scream about "unfairness" if their water was effectively treated before discharge.
Re:Cities (Score:5, Informative)
Modern wastewater treatment is certainly one of western civilization's major achievements. It cuts down on communicable diseases, enhances human and animal lifetimes and makes the place smell better. However, the technology is perhaps 100 years old at it's core and was never imagined to get rid of the multitude of chemicals that we are currently dumping in the water.
As an AC in a post below this one states "We know that a whole host of chemicals do this, estrogen from birth control pills being just one chemical out of literally hundreds." Some are likely to have noticeable biological effects, others perhaps not. And we certainly have the technology to rid the water of these chemicals, but likely not the political and financial will.
The EPA is constantly changing their requirements for wastewater, typically tightening up on some chemical or another. They are usually hounded left and right when they do that for reasons of economics and politics. Hopefully they can continue doing so, but I'm doubtful of their ability to push for major changes in the current climate (pun intended).
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No, the EPA is worried about the natural non-pollutant CO2 rather than the clear and present danger of concentrated chemicals from city water treatment plants. Do you really expect the Feds to attack their urban power base? As another poster mentioned, the urban hipsters would scream bloody murder if they had to pay to have their effluent treated to eliminate these extraordinarily powerful chemicals...
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How well does anaerobic bacterial processing of sewage waste decompose the estrogen? The cited study reports the effects of releasing municipal wste into waterways. But it isn't clear about how this waste was treated or what they mean by 'better' waste water treatment.
Some Canadian municipalities are infamous [peninsuladailynews.com] for their lack of waste water treatment.
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And my next question is... how do levels of estrogen secondary to human wastewater compare to levels of phytoestrogens released into the water by native plants? Cuz I'm wondering if that might be the real story, especially with lakes late in their natural lifecycle where they are filling up with silt and weeds (no human intervention required, tho dredging by humans has sometimes delayed it).
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Re:Cities (Score:4, Interesting)
You got it exactly right. Cities *concentrate* polution. Spreading the same populatioh over a wider area *disperses* the pollution.
Civil engineers used to say "dilution is the solution to pollution", but no longer -- except ironically. That's because there can be offsetting mechanmisms that concentrate a pollutant -- e.g. collecting in streams.
Cities actually make processing pollution and waste more financially efficient, although the price tag in absolute (rather than per capita) terms can be eye-popping. Here in Boston we went through a major shock about 25 years ago. We had had the lowest water and sewer rates in the country, living off massive infrastructure investments made generations prior; but we were dumping minimally treated sewage and sludge into the harbor. A lawsuit forced us to disband the agency which was running the sewage and water system, but also recreation like parks and skating rinks, and form a new quasi-independent authority . After 6.8 billion dollars spent on new treatment plants, we had more expensive than average water. 6.8 billion spread over 2.5 million ratepayers is a LOT of money $2750 / person over a decade or so. But it's cheaper than if those 2.5 million people were spread out evenly along the coast for a few hundred miles.
It's not just estrogen. (Score:2, Informative)
We know that a whole host of chemicals do this, estrogen from birth control pills being just one chemical out of literally hundreds.
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Try buying food that isn't packaged, cooked, or served in materials that are well-known to leach xenoestrogens... From bottles to juice boxes to plastic/vacuum bags to polymer coatings in almost all modern cans and coffee and drink cups - you're getting bathed in this stuff unless you can afford to buy everything you eat at the farmer's market, and even them it's almost impossible to avoid the various pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, etc., many of which are loose in the environment themselves.
Birth control pills signifcant contributor? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Birth control pills signifcant contributor? (Score:4, Informative)
The primary point of the story was that tap water processing plants do absolutely nothing to filter it out. This is why I don't drink tap water.
Do you only drink well water? Cuz guess what: bottled water is tap water.
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Do you only drink well water? Cuz guess what: bottled water is tap water.
Bottled water from male-only communities. Drinking water bottled by women will make you grow soft.
Seriously, is rain filtering out that stuff? If yes, then bottled water from mountain regions should be reasonably clean. Especially from Brokeback Mountains...
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I recall reading elsewhere that we are finding substantial levels of synthetic estrogen and other pharmaceuticals even in fresh rainwater in remote areas. We're running the most far-reaching biochemical experiment in the history of the planet, and we're doing it without any hint of controls or knowledgeable oversight. May we live in interesting times indeed...
And incidentally well-water is just water from an underground river. Considering that typically 70-90% of the water flow from your average surface r
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I'm assuming you don't drink milk either.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazett... [harvard.edu]
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Only straight from the source. Until my wife pushes me away.
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According to a former slashdot story, that is absolutely where the estrogen is coming from. The primary point of the story was that tap water processing plants do absolutely nothing to filter it out. This is why I don't drink tap water.
Right. Only rain water and grain alcohol. God willing, we will prevail, in peace and freedom from fear, and in true health, through the purity and essence of our natural... fluids.
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Hate to break it to you, but estrogen and other pharmaceuticals have been detected even in fresh rainwater in remote areas. We've contaminated not just our rivers, but the complete water cycle. There is no clean water anymore.
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Whoosh
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Gen. Jack Ripper salutes you, sir!
(This message sent from my CRM-114 Discriminator)
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My tap water is pumped out of an aquifer where it has been for decades. This is of course, unsustainable in the long term, but in the meantime I'll take my chances with my tap water (which tastes great, by the way) instead of the bottled stuff.
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That study refers to estrogen and estrogen mimickers found in the drinking water, from all sources. Stuff that's treated, filtered, etc. This study was done in a controlled lake environment maintained by the Canadian government for such studies, and the only variable was dosing the lake with a low level of estrogen (probably estradiol). So, if we assume that source of estrogen is a small amount in comparison to others in the water environment, it's impact is demonstrably huge. Not all pollutants have th
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It comes from all kinds of things, but nowhere int he amounts and strengths found in birth control pills. The pill is *far* worse than even regular hormoe replacemtn therapy, since the dose has to be strong enough to swamp the body's normal hormonal actions and responses. This type of overloading always produces very high levels of excreted chemicals - far more than you'll find from almost any other source.
And keep in mind, these are more dangerous for people than other environmental estrogens, since they
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The 'pill' might go away. Patches are more efficient ways of delivering chemicals to the blood and result in much lower quantities in the sewage system.
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Also IUDs and hormonal implants have become far safer and more effective than the early versions that gave them a bad name.
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Careful, the next thing you know someone will suggest you're after a eugenics program and then comes the obligatory Nazi reference... ooops....
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Why are people flushing them in the first place instead of throwing them away normally? What other random things are people putting down their toilets?
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TangoMargarine never learned what a 'flerzy' was in middle school! It's a hair do, and a process and on point to your comment.
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If you're going to mock me for something you say I've never heard of, at least spell it right so I can google it.
Thanks for your confusing comment that totally fails to help.
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A Flerzy is when you pick a nerd up by his feet, put his head in the toilet and flush.
It's the only reason I kind of wish there were emos when I was in middle school. That hair is asking to be flerzied.
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You mean a "swirly"? The heck is "flerzy" supposed to come from?
Well, it's technically related to my question and we all know that's the best kind of correct.
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Probably because they've already taken them? The estrogen doesn't just disappear into a woman's body - it gets flushed into her urine as quickly as possible as her body fight to restore its fertility.
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Oh. I read the title as "people flushing unused birth control pills threatens," not "the intended cycle of taking birth control pills and their normal chemical output threatens."
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I was under the impression one took them orally, not by jamming them up your urethra.
That's just bullshit, not estrogen from the "Pill" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Estrogens ain't estrogens (Sol)"
http://www.arhp.org/publicatio... [arhp.org]
@butchersong
And why is this [sciencedaily.com] not "the best source" - peer reviewed... did I miss some bad science?
I thought an experiment based on a false belief that estrogen from the Pill is the same estrogen that is found in waterways was bad science - like the flawed UK research it was "based on".
The researcher refers to "estrogen-like" in the science press, but the term "birth control pills" is quoted in the non-science press. Need for publicity, bad reporting, or both?
cough*Dairy farmers*cough(??)
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Birth control pills contain substances chemically like oestrogen. What did you think was in them?
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Birth control pills contain substances chemically like oestrogen.
No shit?
What did you think was in them?
Which ones? Beyaz, Gianvi, Loryna, Ocella, Safyral, Syeda, Yasmin, Yaz, or Zarah? Ethynyl-estradiol.
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The hysterical left has latched onto pseudo estrogens from plastics as the new boogie man.
Which is sort of cool. Because it funds research into the damage of birth control pill runoff. Research that would surly be verboten without distractions.
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The hysterical left has latched onto pseudo estrogens from plastics as the new boogie man.
The hysterical latch onto nothing. Seriously.
Good thing this isn't a US story. (Score:2)
It could result in a monumental political battle between fluke and Fluke.
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Good one.
Should we start dumping Viagra? (Score:5, Funny)
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Good luck with that, viagra does not make you horny.
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Good luck with that, viagra does not make you horny.
That's not what she said.
.
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You need powdered black rhino horn for that!
Peta is not Happy (Score:2)
So... (Score:2)
Birth control pills meant to control fish population ???
I don't think they're calling for ban of the pill (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA "It's a problem that we can certainly resolve with better waste water treatment,"
Don't worry (Score:1)
The sheer amount of SSRI's in the water will keep the fish happy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/hea... [bbc.co.uk]
Low dose birth control pills? (Score:4, Informative)
Seems that the slow switch to low dose birth control pills will have a side effect of helping this sort of pollution as well. It won't prevent it of course, but there is a big different between 1970s pills and those prescribed today, now just to get those who have been on the pills for 20+ years to switch to something different. Has the side effect of lowering cancer rates as well.
screw the fish what about us? (Score:2)
At least it has been completely proven to have absolutely no effect on human males. Oh wait...
Toss in Testosterone (Score:1)
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>too much estrogen is a dose of testosterone
Umm... no. Estrogen and testosterone are very different hormones with VERY different and largely unrelated effects. Women don't have both hormones coursing through their bodies just as some sort of balancing act.
>Not all people should be allowed to reproduce.
Fortunately most every culture that has access to cheap birth control and good enough cheap health care that infants reliably survive to adulthood tends to fall to nearly zero population growth within a
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Dogs have tested that for me. Either sex, the grass dies.
I misread the tite (Score:2)
Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Sticks
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Well, I suppose in a roundabout way...
Buy more then (Score:2)
Birth Control Pills Threaten Fish Stocks
Buy Buy Buy... time to back the truck up.
Often when stock prices go down due on bad news: the fall is short lived and represents a buying opportunity.
Sorry (J/K), couldn't resist.
any quantity module process from measure a remembe (Score:1)
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Women will do ANYTHING to 'get a man'. For most women, being single is the worst thing in the world. They will sleep with ANY scumbag, as long as they 'have a man'. Hence most women will sleep with jerks who can't keep it up with a condom on. Hence most women use the pill, rather than condoms, in spite of the fact that the pill offers no protection against VD whatsoever
Normally I would urge someone like you to use a condom to help prevent the spread of stupidity. However, with your personality, there's no worry about that.
As for the rest ... sheesh!
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It's certainly not impossible. But it's also quite likely that the reduction in social stigma over the last decades have made such people far more likely to openly embrace their differences instead of forcing themselves to fit society's expectations to avoid being ostracized.
A potential research experiment would be to see whether openly anomalous biologically male individuals have increased at a substantially faster rate than biologically female ones - presumably elevated environmental estrogen levels woul
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For that, one should look not in the water, but at the shift in diet to include a great deal more soy and flaxseed products (and flaxseed has 3x the level of phytoestrogens AND is more readily absorbed from the gut):
http://web.archive.org/web/201... [archive.org]
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Transgender is a mental condition in the age of lazy psychologists, a consumer biased patient population, and abuse of for-profit medical solutions.
There is no such thing as a transgendered person; just people with gender identity disorder who are placated with drugs and operations. Then a large number of idiots who buy into all the crap and shame anybody who dares poitn out the truth.
Only partially right, and for all the wrong reasons. The is no longer anything called "gender identity disorder". The real "disorder" is societies failure to accept this as a treatable medical condition for some people, corrected with hormones and a sex change. The American Psychiatric Association has this to say about gender dysphoria [dsm5.org].
DSM-5 aims to avoid stigma and ensure clinical care for individuals who see and feel themselves to be a different gender than their assigned gender. It replaces the diagnostic name “gender identity disorder” with “gender dysphoria,” as well as makes other important clarifications in the criteria. It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.
... and that stress in large part comes from people who are either ignorant or actively haters. But that's becoming less of a problem as more of us speak out.