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Mars Science Technology

Could We Abort a Manned Mission To Mars? 267

StartsWithABang writes: The next great leap in human spaceflight is a manned mission to a world within our Solar System: most likely Mars. But if something went wrong along the journey — at launch, close to Earth, or en route — whether biological or mechanical, would there be any way to return to Earth? This article is a fun (and sobering) look at what the limits of physics and technology allow at present. If you're interested in a hard sci-fi, near-future look at how a catastrophic Mars mission might go, you should read an excellent novel called The Martian by Andy Weir.
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Could We Abort a Manned Mission To Mars?

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  • by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @10:15PM (#48011977)

    "The Martian" by Andy Weir is one of the best SF books I've read, and I highly recommend it. Even if you're not into SF, if you're a member here, there's a good chance you'll like it.

    • by Noxal ( 816780 )

      Seconded. Fantastic book

    • Seconded. I picked it up on a lark at the library, and my wife who's not that into sci-fi liked it as well. Ridley Scott is making a movie out of it.
      • God, I hope not. After the well-intentioned trainwreck that was Prometheus I really don't want to see The Martian by Ridley Scott. Seriously, the man has no sense of humour, which is key to why that book was so damned good, and so accessible to the non-SF person.

        For my part I am not sure who I'd want to direct it... but I'd really want to see Ryan Reynolds in the lead. He was exactly who I imagined through the entire book :)

    • by TheRealHocusLocus ( 2319802 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @12:18AM (#48012341)

      If you're interested in a hard sci-fi near-future look at how a non-catastrophic, well planned mission with unforgettable personalities and epic adventures, I recommend Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars Trilogy: Red, Blue, Green Mars. There's catastrophe in there too but it occurs only occasionally. [wikipedia.org]

      There's more "things go wrong... in spaaace!" novels and movies than you can shake a stick at. During these boring space creature features I wind up doing a freeze frame on the movie.

      I then mentally leave the room and walk around down the space station's corridors, look out the windows, maybe browse the tech manuals for the station. Then I key up some popular music these people of the future listen to, go to the space john (not much has changed) and visit the hydroponics bays. Have some lunch. If it's a lunar colony I don a suit and go play some golf, take a buggy ride. Then I strap on wings and climb the giant trees that fill the dome and jump off and fly.

      Eventually I mentally return to the room that is frozen in time on the screen, take a deep breath and un-pause the movie. And the gallant characters resume their battle with the Space Menace and mostly become eaten or horribly killed and all the precious equipment becomes ruined in the process and everything blows up.

      Life can be lonely sometimes when you're not into the things that other people enjoy.

    • Do yourself a favor, list to it on audiobook. It is narrated by R. C. Bray. who does a fantastic job. It was one of the few times where the I found audiobook more entertaining than when I read it.

    • by kyrsjo ( 2420192 )

      Agreed, it's a good book, and one that seems to get most of the technicalities right. The thing which bothers me the most is the authors very flat and sometimes a bit boring writing style - there is a lot of "I did this, and then that happened. Then I did something else, and exactly the same thing happened again. Then I tried something completely different, got a bit lucky, and now it worked. Yay.". The same goes for the characters - with some exceptions for the main character, they are all very much portra

  • Should we? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spiritplumber ( 1944222 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @10:15PM (#48011985) Homepage
    Full speed ahead, and damn the torpedoes!

    Yes, the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria could've gone back home - so could the Mayflower (yeah, yeah, I know, I'm pasty white, etc.)

    It's a lot harder to do that with a spacecraft if you know you need the Oberth effect of your destination to make it home.

    So? A poll was done a while ago indicating that a lot of qualified people would go if they had 1 chance in 2 of surviving.

    The only safe ship is the one that never leaves harbor...

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Those ships were going to places that were naturally habitable and didn't need to bring every molecule of air, water and food along with them. The ocean provided natural propulsion and food too. Space has none of these things, and Mars is an utterly dead rusty ball of rock.
      I will never understand the quasi-religious fervor some people have about space.
      http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the... [ucsd.edu]

      • Re:Should we? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Sarten-X ( 1102295 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @11:09PM (#48012145) Homepage

        I will never understand the quasi-religious fervor some people have about space.

        It's not about space. It's about not-Earth.

        For most practical purposes, Earth has no more undiscovered continents, no more unexplored territory, and no more absolute wilderness. Sure, there's some areas that are generally undisturbed, but we know just about all there is to know about them. There are no more mysteries lying just beyond the horizon. There is only human civilization. There are cell phones, satellites, and rescue teams standing ready. Human exploration is at a standstill.

        There are some places left to go to fill in the gaps in our knowledge. We can cut deeper into the jungles, and dive deeper into the oceans, but we still know what we don't know.

        The next horizon for humanity's exploration is space. That's where we'll next spread our human empire, and for those who care about such things, the enthusiasm for space is natural.

        • by itzly ( 3699663 )
          There aren't really all that many mysteries in the rest of the solar system either. And exploration beyond the solar system won't be an option until we've achieved massive breakthroughs in propulsion, and if we were to ever achieve that, it will be in a lab down here on earth.
        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Ocean surface outside known shipping and cable lanes is largely unmapped.

          Antarctica is largely unknown as it sits under kilometers of ice.

          All of these surfaces are much easier to tap than surface of Mars. They are also being explored, slowly, as MH370 recovery operation showed.

        • Earth has no more undiscovered continents, no more unexplored territory, and no more absolute wilderness.

          Earth has vast amounts of mostly unexplored territory. The 3/4 of the Earth's surface that is covered by water has only barely been explored. Sure, there are bits and pieces of dry land that haven't been explored yet though those are disappearing quickly. But right now we really don't have the technology to explore the oceans comprehensively. I think people tend to forget about the oceans and how vast they really are.

          Please note this isn't an argument against going into space. We absolutely should. I'

      • The Earth is thoroughly mapped, explored, photographed, populated, and exploited. There are no frontiers or mystery here any more. There's an enormous unexplored solar system out there vastly bigger and more interesting than Earth. We can all see it up there, but we can't get there. I honestly don't understand the mentality of people who aren't curious about it and don't want to go explore it.
        • Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @11:38PM (#48012239)
          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • Re:Should we? (Score:5, Interesting)

            by Sperbels ( 1008585 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @11:48PM (#48012269)
            An interesting twist on that is that post-human machine intelligences are actually the best suited for space exploration. The need power and raw materials to renew their bodies. They don't need an ecosystem and a gravity well to maintain their health. As long as there's a sending and receiving station, they can travel at the speed of light. Long voyages to other stars would not be an issue for them. In fact, I'd image they'd be far more prosperous off of the planet.
          • I disagree. Powerful computing may lead to finding plenty of things of interest here on Earth.

            Disagree all you like... why don't we ask the dinosaurs their opinion...

            Oh, right...

            We can't...

            If we found a 6 mile long rock headed for Earth and had a year's notice, I doubt we could do anything about it, other than try to survive it (all the fantasies about stopping it aside, we likely couldn't).

            • by itzly ( 3699663 )
              A year's notice would be plenty of time to build a shelter inside a mountain, and keep some people safe until the worst of the damage was over. That would be a lot easier and cheaper than trying to set up a colony on Mars.
              • A year's notice would be plenty of time to build a shelter inside a mountain

                But we'd spend the first 6 months arguing about where to build it, another 5 arguing about who should go in it and 4 weeks fighting over it.

        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Have you tried deeper parts of oceans yet? Antarctica under the ice?

          Both are essentially a mystery today. We know almost nothing about deep ocean life, nor life under the ice in Antarctica. Recent operation when Russians finally managed to drill through kilmeters of ice to try to get a sample of what it is down there was the first success we had on that front.

        • The Earth is thoroughly mapped, explored, photographed, populated, and exploited. There are no frontiers or mystery here any more.

          Complete and utter nonsense. We are discovering things about the Earth daily. We've barely explored the 3/4 of the earth that is under water. We know a lot but there is a lot left to learn right here on Earth and for the foreseeable future Earth is exactly where we are going to learn because we have limited options regarding space travel right now. Our technology is simply not advanced enough to send people much farther than the moon a present and even that is a stretch.

          There's an enormous unexplored solar system out there vastly bigger and more interesting than Earth.

          And we should explore that too.

      • What a stupid and ignorant argument you make, all of those issues are merely engineering problems with known solutions

    • I would have well, prior to having kids... I have to be there for them...

      Now, if the ship was large enough to take them? I'd consider it...

      It isn't for everyone, but we need to be doing it...

      Frankly, I'm of the mindset that if no one is dying, then we aren't trying hard enough...

    • We're all going to die some day.

      You can die on Earth like billions of people before you have.

      Or you can die IN SPACE!!!

      Personally, I'd choose to die IN SPACE.

    • by swell ( 195815 )

      It will be done, but should it be the USA?

      When we went to the moon, we were deep into a PR battle with the USSR. There was a general perception that they were beating us in space. We rallied our enthusiasm and resources and took the Great Leap- sending humans to the moon. We got lucky.

      Now we are the leaders in space. We have nothing to prove. Others; India, China, Europe, Russia--are eager to demonstrate their prowess.

      Let them. Lives are expendable in many parts of the world. The rewards justify the risks i

      • The US became the space leader because the N-1 failed. Had the Russian moonshot rocket worked, they would have beaten us to the moon by a week or so.
        • Re:Should we? (Score:5, Informative)

          by Zontar The Mindless ( 9002 ) <plasticfish@info.gmail@com> on Sunday September 28, 2014 @04:14AM (#48012863) Homepage

          The US became the space leader because the N-1 failed. Had the Russian moonshot rocket worked, they would have beaten us to the moon by a week or so.

          None of the N1 launches were manned, and the US had already done a manned flyby of the Moon (the Apollo 8 mission, to be exact) exactly 2 months before the first N1 test shot was made in February 1969. The US landed 2 men on the Moon 5 months after that.

          So, no, there was absolutely no chance at all of that happening.

    • Full speed ahead, and damn the torpedoes!

      The only safe ship is the one that never leaves harbor...

      Not even then.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
      There are loads of examples of ships sinking in harbor or while tied to docks.
      That the thing about life, it's just too damn easy to die and there isnt any way to prevent it. So, may as well risk it.
      Hell, you could be killed by space sitting in your chair at home!
      http://ascendingstarseed.wordp... [wordpress.com]

    • It's a lot harder to do that with a spacecraft if you know you need the Oberth effect of your destination to make it home.

      It's called an "Earth Return Trajectory".

      Basically, it's a two-year long transition orbit to Mars. More deltaV to enter the orbit, quite a bit more to enter Mars orbit at the other end, but if you have a problem along the way, you'll be back to Earth eventually (or your bodies will be, in any case) assuming no action on your part.

    • When it's a remote prospect, they say they'd go. If you actually had a ship ready to leave next month, you might find it's more like 1 in 100 at those odds.

  • No, who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Saturday September 27, 2014 @10:22PM (#48012015)

    The first mission or two is probably no return anyway so who cares if you can't abort?

    I'd still sign on in a heartbeat.

    We need to be WAY less cautious about manned space travel again, we aren't going to do much of import at this pace.

    • May we all die in novel circumstances.

  • Citation Needed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by KeensMustard ( 655606 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @12:52AM (#48012451)
    The next great leap in human spaceflight is a manned mission to a world within our Solar System: most likely Mars.

    [citation needed]

    I think we will never achieve a great leap forward until we come to terms with the fact that what is holding us back from leaping forward is the irrational notion that we need to send flesh for a mission to be legitimate. Sending human flesh to another planet is about as useful long term as sending frozen steak or a banana. We don't insist on using only our hand when building a house: we use tools and machinery. In fact, it is said that the thing that separates us from other species is our tool making. We make tools to achieve the things we want to do, and to advance and make our lives better. The tools for exploring outer space are unmanned probes, robots, machines. Machines that don't require flesh in situ to make them work. 10000 years ago, flesh was needed to dig a hole. Now, we use a back hoe. We don't think of a hole dug by a back hoe as somehow suspect because we didn't dig it by hand. Why is space travel subject to these artificial constraints? Sure: Before the age of computers we didn't imagine machines could be sufficiently autonomous to enable them to be effective, long term in space. But now, we know better. In the 1960s, it was thought the future lay with sending humans into space to move levers. Now, we know better. The humans are just inert luggage. Let's go luggage free.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Why travel anywhere when you can just watch a documentary about it on TV, right?

    • by hey! ( 33014 )

      I think you overstate the case -- for the present.

      Thought experiment: Imagine you could magically transport several humans to Mars along with all the shelter and supplies they needed. Naturally, you could also use your magic transporter to transport a robotic vehicle. Which would be more valuable?

      At present, the humans would be a better choice due to their greater behavioral flexibility and autonomy. But over the next fifty years or so we can expect the gap in flexibility between humans and machines to

    • ...the irrational notion that we need to send flesh for a mission to be legitimate.

      Why are we interested in exploring space at all if the goal is not to eventually have humans living off-planet? We can use robots for lots of things but ultimately the aim of exploration is to find new places to live and new resources to exploit to propagate the species. Hence the interest in manned missions. That's not to say that unmanned missions are not legitimate: they are absolutely essential but we need to develop, and practice, manned technology as well.

  • by LostMyBeaver ( 1226054 ) on Sunday September 28, 2014 @04:06AM (#48012843)
    We still don't have a station orbiting the moon. We don't have a station on the moon. We don't have a sustainable system within our own lunar orbit.

    The only reason a Mars mission is one way is because we insist on building the vehicles and launching from Earth.

    The cost of launching from earth is much higher than from space because we have to break Earth's gravity and pass through the atmosphere.

    We picked on India for making it to Mars by basically cutting corners and just slingshotting a chunk of cheap crap at Mars and then said "ours costs more because we're more conservative". What's our response? Throw a huge expensive chunk of metal at Mars to prove we do it better.

    Build the next space station already. Build it big and ship it people and supplies and do it there. If we cat accomplish that, we don belong in space.
    • The cost of launching from earth is much higher than from space because we have to break Earth's gravity and pass through the atmosphere.

      While this is certainly true, I don't think your general conclusions follow from this fact.

      Build the next space station already. Build it big and ship it people and supplies and do it there.

      The biggest expense is getting things into orbit, as you point out. It requires a certain amount of fuel for every pound or kilo of stuff we want to lift up there.

      Given that space isn't exactly filled with random supplies (food, fuel for other missions, etc.) floating around, most of it is still going to have to come from Earth. So, exactly HOW is it cheaper to launch a mission from space if we still need to lift

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      And the space station would do what exactly, pull materials out of a magician's hat? If all the raw materials are eventually going to come from earth anyway, you're just adding intermediary steps to increase costs. Here's a number of reasons why you might want to have a space station, but practically doesn't apply today:

      1) We can gather and refine materials and produce parts/fuel with the required tolerances/quality from a lower/zero-g gravity well like the moon or asteroids at a lower cost than shipping it

    • The cost of launching from earth is much higher than from space because we have to break Earth's gravity and pass through the atmosphere.

      Build the next space station already. Build it big and ship it people and supplies and do it there. If we cat accomplish that, we don belong in space.

      The funny part is.. you don't seem to grasp that you aren't actually saving anything by "building a big station and doing it there" - as all that material comes from Earth in the first place, the station is merely a temporar

    • In launch costs there is absolutely no difference if I launch a huge "rocket" from earth and sent it to Mars, or if we sent rocket parts to a space station, assemble it there, sent fuel to the space station and finally launch from the space station.
      Actually: that is a complete no brainer. How can you come to your conclusions?

      So: making it cheaper to go to Mars by using the Moon, that is another thing. Ofc you can build up a mining colony on moon. I guess a small city with 1000 to 10000 inhabitants would do.

  • Lots of things could go wrong. Things could go wrong enough that there isn't enough time to fill a whole novel.

    However, even in case of catastrophe, it means that, what, six people die who signed up for this voluntarily and made history already?

  • ... makes me think "highly unlikely".

    On a mission like that, your might survive one major thing going wrong, but the second mishap will kill you. You can't duct-tape your way out of misfortune after misfortune in space.

    See Apollo 13. One thing went wrong, and it took all the engineering and duct-taping skills (literally) to get the crew back alive.

If all the world's economists were laid end to end, we wouldn't reach a conclusion. -- William Baumol

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