New MRI Studies Show SSRIs Bring Rapid Changes to Brain Function 138
A story at the Los Angeles Times reports that researchers at the Max Planck Institute have found that Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors, various of which are widely used in anti-depressant medications, cause changes in healthy subjects' brain architecture just hours after ingestion. As the article mentions, one reason that this rapid change is surprising is that patients taking SSRIs to treat depression typically take considerably longer (weeks) to perceive a change in mood. A slice from the story:
When more serotonin was available, this resting state functional connectivity decreased on a broad scale, the study found. This finding was not particularly surprising -- other studies have shown a similar effect in brain regions strongly associated with mood regulation. But there was a two-fold shock: Some areas of the brain appeared to buck the trend and become more interdependent. And all the changes were evident only three hours after the single dosage. ... The rapid connectivity shifts noted by the study might therefore be precursors to longer-term changes, perhaps starting with remodeling of synapses, the microscopic gaps where chemical neurotransmitters such as serotonin flood across to an adjacent brain cell, the study suggests. But this type of brain scanning can’t pick up changes at such a scale, so the hypothesis will have to be tested other ways[.] ... Study subjects did not have diagnoses of depression, so researchers will need to generate similar maps among those diagnosed with depression, and re-map them during and after depressive episodes, as well as after treatment, Sacher said. Comparisons might then show whether a certain initial architecture predicts treatment success.
mostly clarity (Score:5, Interesting)
I found that the SSRI that I took for a total of about 18 months (for diagnosed depression) was mostly helpful in allowing me some clarity to so that I could identify, build and grow the coping mechanisms that helped me maintain clarity without the SSRI. I've been free of needing the drug now for about 8 years and have found ways to cope on my own (changing my mind among others as Tim Leary used to say)...
Re:mostly clarity (Score:5, Informative)
...was mostly helpful in allowing me some clarity...
Depression isn't just about feeling sad. It's a whole range of negative emotions including guilt, hopelessness, lack of motivation, lack of confidence, etc. The opposite of depression is being manic - where a person feels happy, supremely confident and motivated, that everything is possible, etc.
Now, you seem to be hinting that the SSRI made you smarter (i.e. gave you clarity). But that's unlikely for a variety of reasons. Instead, it most likely made you feel smarter, more confident, etc. And maybe that's what you meant - that you had a unrealistically pessimistic view of the world and the SSRI caused you to have a less pessimistic view of the world.
For many people, being able to biochemically feel more motivated and less concerned about the consequences of their actions is exactly what they need. Maybe someone lost their job in a particularly unpleasant way and they're having trouble getting back on the horse, so to speak, and looking for a new job - and then the fact that months are going by and they're still unemployed is making them even even less motivated, etc.
But consider someone who is so desperately unhappy that the thing they want more than anything is to not exist - but they're held back by lack of motivation and concern for the consequences on their family. If you biochemically alter such a person's brain to feel more motivated and less concerned about the consequences of their actions then you made an already dangerous situation much more dangerous. Now, SSRIs are often prescribed together with valium derivatives which could potentially take the edge off and make a person less unhappy - dulling the desire to cease to exist - and perhaps also dulling the motivation a bit. And then there's also depression caused by an external situation. If someone is depressed because they're in an abusive relationship then obviously SSRIs are the wrong solution (i.e. the right solution is to get out of the relationship).
Which is all consistent with this latest study. Depression isn't some simple biochemical imbalance that's cured as soon as the SSRI diffuses across the blood-brain barrier (i.e. a time scale of hours). And, to the extent that SSRIs do have a biochemical effect on mood (i.e. subtracting the massive placebo effect) it's important to be very careful that this biochemical effect is actually beneficial to the patient because if you get that wrong you end up with a dead patient.
Re:mostly clarity (Score:5, Funny)
...that you had a unrealistically pessimistic view of the world...
I seriously doubt that is possible.
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... oh, why bother [onthemedia.org]?
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You already made clear your pessimism.
Re:mostly clarity (Score:5, Interesting)
that you had a unrealistically pessimistic view of the world and the SSRI caused you to have a less pessimistic view of the world
You seem to assume that "depressed" means "unhappy" or "pessimistic". I've had depression for almost a decade while being happy and successful and an overall optimistic person who looked forward to his work day and time with friends and family.
I had a lack of energy and motivation, but I enjoyed being with people and doing stuff, but I relied on others to motivate me and I always wanted to sleep and do nothing. I also had anxiety, not a "fear" of anything, just my mind would race when I felt stress. I tried an SSRI, but I almost immediately got an adrenaline rush off of it with only a half dose that left me with almost no sense of pain, exaggerated movements, huge amounts of energy, and a 140 pulse that wouldn't let up for almost an hour. I eventually had to immediately see a doctor who gave me something else to counteract it. I had a few bruises and sore joints and tendons after that.
Eventually my doctor got me on Lorazepam for when I felt strong anxiety. After several months of using Lorazepam whenever I had my attacks, I noticed I got anxiety less and less. I have not had an anxiety attack in 6 months now and I now feel more energetic and I want to go out and do things, starting to exercise again, even taking up learning a new language. I'm also finding that I can think clearer and remember stuff distinctly easier. I'm just glad I haven't had to use Lorazepam in a long while.
I find it interesting that my ability to concentrate and remember is better than ever. I grew up with A.D.D. from kindergarten on, which continued to cause me issues up until very recently. A lot of my A.D.D. issues have subsided after my anxiety went away. No idea.I only used Lorazepam for a little bit, but it seems to have been a miracle worker in my case.
Re:mostly clarity (Score:5, Insightful)
I know exactly what he means by "clarity." It's nothing to do with intelligence. That's not always the word I'd use to describe it, but that's only because just one word won't do.
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He's not suggested anywhere that it made him smarter, he seems to have suggested that it allowed him to get a sense of perspective, providing clarity of his situation.
I know exactly what he means. I was suffering through a wicked case of depression when I heard a song on the radio (Baker Street), and the line "Just one more year and you'll be happy..."
"One more year and I'll be happy!" I realised that it was the key! Then I thought some more about it and realised that one more year of the same thing woul
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What if a person achieves "clarity" that they really should end it all?
Well then they can kill themselves. I don't understand the point of forcing someone to live a shitty life (or a life where they feel shitty) that they don't want to live. Sure, other people might be sad for a little while. But they'll get over it. So in my book, it's better than forcing someone to live in depression for who-knows-how-many-years.
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> Now, you seem to be hinting that the SSRI made you smarter (i.e. gave you clarity). But that's unlikely for a variety of reasons. Instead, it most likely made you feel smarter, more confident, etc. And maybe that's what you meant - that you had a unrealistically pessimistic view of the world and the SSRI caused you to have a less pessimistic view of the world.
Maybe he is confusing SSRIs with shrooms and/or LSD? ;)
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Re:mostly clarity (Score:5, Interesting)
That's how it is supposed to work. It's a crutch to allow something like cognitive behavioral therapy to take hold.
Ideally, you would be seeing a psychologist to assist with identifying coping strategies, or problems with the way you filter input. Instead of triggering negative responses, everything you experience in a day should be more or less balanced. Not perfectly 50/50, but certainly not always negative.
Getting in a negative rut ("depression") makes it easier for a neutral stimulus to trigger a negative emotion, or something that should be positive to be misinterpreted.
An anti-depressant can't change the way you react to what you hear, read, or see. But it can give you enough of a lift that you have room to work on yourself.
As long as I'm typing - someone will probably mention cocaine. Similar caveat with cocaine - it doesn't help you change your mind. It actually gives you a positive feeling, which current anti-depressants don't really do. The need to change your mind goes away, temporarily, and users look to another hit to solve the problem. It's a great demonstration of how feeling good might feel, but serves no other useful purpose.
cellular level too (Score:2)
I think SSRI's (& others pharmaceuticals like it) are extremely dangerous. I would rather them be prescribed Indica or Sativa depending on the need...
That said, I have to agree with this part in theory...I mean to say it sounds plausible:
Again...fsk pharma companies...but given what TFA has to say about its effect on brain structure it may very well do almost the same thing at the cellular level
1. I can imagin
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> I think SSRI's (& others pharmaceuticals like it) are extremely dangerous. I would rather them be prescribed Indica or Sativa depending on the need...
That is unfortunately not an option for everyone, since employers are still discriminating against cannabis use thanks to decades of lies from Uncle Sam.
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> I think SSRI's (& others pharmaceuticals like it) are extremely dangerous. I would rather them be prescribed Indica or Sativa depending on the need...
That is unfortunately not an option for everyone, since employers are still discriminating against cannabis use thanks to decades of lies from Uncle Sam.
There are other options as well, St. John's Wort, for example has had effects on one person I know that were very similar to prescription medications.
Before taking the "natural" option, however, remember that all psycho-active drugs are a crap shoot and that the same ingredients and dosage can have radicically different effects on different people. From nothing at all, to pure side-effects with no benefits, to "helps, but the side-effects are intolerable" all the way up to possible permanent damage. Or, you
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just wanted to say 'ditto' on the St. John's Wort and "self medication not to be done lightly" adivce
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Clearly, you have no fucking clue. Some people are stimulated (yes, it literally causes people to wake up). Some are depressed (put to sleep).
If you happen to know the mechanism for all of these, please collect your Nobel prize over there. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
"couchlock"" (Score:2)
this error isn't as common as "weed makes you lazy" or "weed gives you the munchies" but I've seen it
Indica and Sativa are two main species of Cannabis (the third, Ruderallis doesn't get you high but is good for hemp)
For many reasons, Indica is probably the first and/or only kind of weed most users in North America have smoked.
First I'll tell you *why* and then why it matters...
> Indica is easier and cheaper to grow...it flowers noticeably more densely and grows faster. Since weed is
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As far as "..helpful in allowing me some clarity.." comment, I have found a supplement that provides great clarity and is not a SSRI medication. It is called Lithium Orotate. the theory behind lithium orotate is that our brains when we are depressed, is due to lack of the lithium element. I discover this information from Dr. John Gray's website, who is a licensed psychiatrist, (He is the author of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus book series, www.marsvenus.com). Lithium orotate is a food supplement t
Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
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But can you yourself be the judge -- pass the judgment, that "things seemed clearer"??
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But can you yourself be the judge -- pass the judgment, that "things seemed clearer"??
Obviously that is anecdotal. That is why double-blind clinical trials are how things like this are typically studied. It is of course especially difficult to test psychological conditions since even measuring the presence of the condition is so difficult.
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Well, that's exactly the problem, that being the judge yourself is usually anything but easy. It may seem odd for someone who never experienced it, but for you, very little changes. You don't really notice it. Because your "baseline" remains the same. That it changes relatively doesn't really register until much, much later.
That's one of the reasons why so many people interrupt or abandon their therapy. Because you DO notice the side effects very quickly...
Re:Interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
That's a very good point. We know what happens to the chemicals in the brain, and we know that after some time people feel a bit better, and we know that is rarely permanent.
There was a great article in Newsweek or Time (I can't find it now...) that pointed out this delay. The chemicals happen immediately, but it is weeks before any effects are seen.
One idea was that the brain is damaged, and has to be repaired. It didn't make sense, but there are studies that report decreased brain tissue, or ridges, or various measures of physical properties.
I don't remember seeing any follow-up that showed reversal of brain tissue decline, which might prove this idea.
Anyway, I suspect that your sensitivity to stimuli would have made you aware of the chemical differences faster than most people. And it could be possible that the ASD makes you more susceptible to depression - *without* the physical atrophy that may or may not underpin most non-ASD depression. You did not have to endure the brain rebuilding that most people might.
All of this post basically points out that we don't know how the brain works, and if you have multiple differences from the norm maybe we super don't know how it works. If chemicals made you feel better, good. I don't think anyone can really explain why.
Re:Interesting (Score:4, Interesting)
Although people are generally told that SSRIs take several weeks to work, many patients report that some effects are noticeable in the first few days. These are usually improvement in anxiety symptoms (depression and anxiety commonly coexist).
So this doesn't surprise me all that much. What will be interesting is to follow 'normal' and depressed people over time with and without treatment. However, given how annoying MRIs can be (confining and noisy and slow) I wonder if there will some sort of bias created with some people opting out of frequent testing.
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I've tried taking SSRIs a few times over the years for depression/anxiety/OCD. I haven't been able to last longer than 36 hours. I feel like I am experiencing all of the anxiety and uncontrolled mental energy of LSD without any of the good feelings or positive emotions. I think I have a wacko serotonin system. Tramadols get me reallly high(like taking an E pill) and I am very sensitive to serotonin-system drugs like LSD and psilocybin.
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No, you sound normal, that's how they work. The first week is the worst, it gets better after that. But SSRIs are totally the opposite of addictive drugs, they don't give anything resembling immediate pleasure (in fact they can be somewhat to very uncomfortable for a while), and only benefit after weeks or months of use. They're basically giving you constant anxiety and nervousness - which is bad, except that it forces your brain to adapt by making the serotonin receptors less sensitive (which takes about t
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
My experiences with Zoloft and Paxil suggest that side-effects, most especially related to my physical appetite and sleep schedule, occur within 12 hours of starting medication or a change in dosage. I can't say I ever experienced any positive impact from either medication in the couple of years I spent at various dosages, but do know that all three of the physicians I was seeing swore up and down that SSRIs don't work like that.
I likewise found that a mental fog settled over me within a few days of starting each SSRI that I try. I felt more like I was controlling a video game character than experiencing any part of my own life, to the point that I would at times find myself sitting in the passenger seat of my own car, wondering why it wasn't moving.
I eventually decided that the pharmacological aspect to my treatment for depression was doing far more harm than good. I have to say that I have a strong distrust for purported utility of SSRIs, and a vastly lower opinion of mental health providers in general as a result of my experiences.
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obligatory (Score:1, Funny)
You cut up his brain, you bloody baboon!
Prementrual Dysphoria (Score:5, Interesting)
SSRIs are also the preferred treatment for PMDD and in small doses, about 5% of the usual dose for depression.
In this application it also works almost immediately, no waiting 6 weeks for something to happen. The original article I saw speculated that it affects the amount of GABA in the brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_dysphoria
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Interesting. A neurologist recommended that somebody I know take a low-dose SSRI for a period of time following a stroke as there was apparently some evidence that suggested that it might help with recovery.
And Now For An Opposing Viewpoint... (Score:1, Interesting)
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Offtopic, really?!?
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Now all they need to do... (Score:1)
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Same reason why those of us who take tramadol go through serotonin withdrawal.
Re:Now all they need to do... (Score:4, Informative)
SSRIs can increase suicidal tendencies when initially starting treatment. This is because SSRIs improve motivation before mood, and it is the reason you start a dose under close observation. Additionally, SSRIs can have a whiplash effect when stopped cold turkey, potentially increasing anxiety and depression. SSRIs MUST be tapered in order to safely withdraw from them. This are all well-known, studied effects of this class of drugs. Though these effects don't occur in all patients, it's frequent enough to warrant caution.
http://www.mentalhealth.umn.edu/medication/pdfs/antidep_bro.pdf
http://www.mhra.gov.uk/PrintPreview/DefaultSP/CON146583
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SSRIs can increase suicidal tendencies when initially starting treatment. This is because SSRIs improve motivation before mood,
I am actually 100% sure this is not the reason, that's just the BS response idiot psychiatrists and hopeful medical researchers who have never taken an antidepressant in their life made up.
I never once experienced any change in motivation immediately after starting antidepressants (which I've done several times in my life). What I DID experience a change in, every time, was an increase in anxiety, agitation, and nervousness. More or less the symptoms I already had from feeling anxious, scared and depressed.
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You're arguing from your own experiences. They don't apply to everybody. (Specifically, they are considerably different from my experiences.)
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Paxil is garbage for a majority of people for the reason you mentioned. I had a neighbor friend that was OCD and he would become a train wreck if he let his script lapse or decide to quit taking them. It got to the point where I dreaded hearing him knock on the door because you don't know what he had been doing and how long I would be trapped in his presence.
I have had my run of anti-depressants and they help for a while until the underlying conditions self-corrected then I would go manic. They tried to cla
Re:Now all they need to do... (Score:4, Insightful)
I, on a personal level, am skeptical about the usage--or at least the possible over-usage--of mood-altering medications primarily because we know so little about the way they work. See TFA as an example. I'm doubly skeptical on using SSRIs and other drugs on childrens, adolescents, and even young adults, as there are even more uncertainties about these drugs on still-developing brains!
Having said that, SSRIs are common medications today. The kind of people who are suicidal or have such a mood-disorder that going on a shooting rampage seems like a good idea are exactly the people for whom you would expect SSRIs to be prescribed! In other words, are SSRIs causing these issues (and earning your blame), or were the problems there to begin with?
I don't know, and I don't know of any studies or other medical evidence that points either way. IMH(and not not scientifically grounded)O, I would, like you, suspect some causal relationship.
Re:Now all they need to do... (Score:5, Informative)
Not much is known about how they work, but plenty is known about their effects. Millions of people take them safely and effectively. I'd avoid newer drugs for a time... I like the buffer of a few hundred thousand people ahead of me in line... That said, I've taken them in the past. Make no mistake, they change who you are. Sometimes that's required though, so you should think logically about the situation.
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Essentially we've twisted society up in knots until increasing numbers of people can't tolerate it and then rather than fixing the thing, we prescribe drugs to make it sort of tolerable.
Re:Now all they need to do... (Score:5, Insightful)
Is figure out why so many who are on SSRI's or had recently stopped taking them, become suicidal or go on shooting rampages, or both.
Seriously, what the fuck? What an idiotic, close minded, asshole of a comment. 13% of the population are on anti-depressants, and go off them regularly. They do not shoot anyone or get suicidal. Sometimes, the mentally deranged end up shooting people or committing suicide. Is it any wonder that they had been medicated prior to going off the rails?!?! It's not the drugs, it's the asshole that took them. He had a general 13% of had take them even before you counted the fact they were crazy enough to commit murder.
Now stop making rude and insensitive comments about a group of people you clearly have no knowledge of what-so-ever. I took these drugs for over 15yrs and did not kill anyone, especially not myself, when I stopped taking them. If there is any one worst thing about SSRI's its the stigma people like you have put on people who take them.
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But we don't know if that is all there is to it. What does the brain do about it? Nothing? Does the brain just allow its equilibria to be swayed?
There is HUGE evidence that it does not just allow drugs of nearly all types to permanently alter its equilibria, but instead reacts to perturbations by adjusting various feedback effects so as to somewhat cancel the effects of the drug. This is the basis of the development of tolerance. The processes often involves *other* neurotransmitter pathways than the
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I have to agree with you in general.
Something else I've wondered about is why do we have so many people on antidepressants. If anything I suspect that depression might actually be underdiagnosed, but we really have no idea what it actually is.
When you have substantial percentages of the population requiring a medical treatment you have to start asking why. Have so many people always been depressed, or is this something new? If it is new, what is the cause?
Sometimes I wonder if the brain has a natural fee
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I'm going to pick a nit with "really have no idea what it actually is". I suspect that there may not be an "it" there, but that there may be different causes with the same effects.
I had a heart attack. The doctors made a final diagnosis with a blood test, then stuck a catheter up my groin to pull the clot out of the artery, stopping the heart attack. (Then, for the next couple of days, it seemed almost everybody coming into my room wanted to check my groin.) I've had other diseases where the doctors
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The doctors made a final diagnosis with a blood test, then stuck a catheter up my groin to pull the clot out of the artery, stopping the heart attack. (Then, for the next couple of days, it seemed almost everybody coming into my room wanted to check my groin.)
That isn't such a bad thing. I know somebody who had stents placed and the doctor didn't wait long enough when removing the sheath (or whatever they call the thing they insert catheter through). She was lying in bed and felt damp and looked down and there was blood all over the place. Good thing she hadn't taken a nap - she was bleeding from her femoral artery - not exactly a minor vessel. When she finally managed to get the attention of a nurse there was quite the stir.
Depression is a collection of symptoms, normally diagnosed from the patient's self-reporting. I haven't seen or heard of any objective test. Serotonin level won't do it: you can be depressed with a high level or just fine at a low level, but it appears that increasing the serotonin level does reduce depression in quite a few cases. There could well be several physiological causes.
No argument there - I suspect tha
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Very good answer. In the case of SSRIs, the brain's reaction, its developing tolerance to the dosage, is exactly how the beneficial effects for anxiety and depression occur. And this physical adaptation takes about two weeks. But it happens by initially introducing something that's pretty uncomfortable, essentially making the problem worse (increasing anxiety, agitation and nervousness) until the brain has a chance to adapt (in this case by making serotonin receptors less sensitive, recessing them into the
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People suffering from anxiety, panic attacks, and long-term depression are already at a high risk of suicide. Life often sucks. Depression kills.
And once you've experienced serious depression, you're more at risk to have repeat bouts.
People who seek help are often in crisis - that they have a higher risk of suicide when they first take a drug to try to get better isn't a surprise (and the increased risk is only for the first few weeks. If the drugs didn't have a positive effect, the risk of suicide woul
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Is figure out why so many who are on SSRI's or had recently stopped taking them, become suicidal or go on shooting rampages, or both.
Seriously, what the fuck? What an idiotic, close minded, asshole of a comment.
Perhaps the question could have been phrased a bit more delicately. But there's a actually a serious legitimate question there.
There is strong reason to believe that SSRIs alter a person's brain to make them more motivated and less concerned about the consequences of their actions. For someone whose core problem is feeling too hopeless to get out of bed or for someone whose main problem is crippling social anxiety, it's useful to biochemically alter their brain so they feel more motivated and less concerned
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Is figure out why so many who are on SSRI's or had recently stopped taking them, become suicidal or go on shooting rampages, or both.
Seriously, what the fuck? What an idiotic, close minded, asshole of a comment...
Whoa, whoa, whoa! ...
Let's not go on a rampage here.
--
Sorry, I had to. For the record I agree with you.
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Sometimes, the mentally deranged end up shooting people or committing suicide. Is it any wonder that they had been medicated prior to going off the rails?!?! It's not the drugs, it's the asshole that took them.
I think this demonstrates a really poor approach to the problem. For one, it ignores the question why just about every single case of a shooting rampage, the perpetrator had either been on SSRI's or recently came off. I know correlation is not causation, but constantly have this message ignored, when, if these people are usually reclusive, yet they're not so reclusive that they go to a psychiatrist who is convinced that they justify a prescription for a SSRI. So you're really begging the question as to how
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Is figure out why so many who are on SSRI's or had recently stopped taking them, become suicidal or go on shooting rampages, or both.
Some possible explanations that are better than "SSRIs make people go on shooting rampages":
They were misdiagnosed, and mistreated.
They were depressed (duh) and became more depressed when the SSRI did nothing to help. (Suicidal ideation is a major reason for starting SSRI treatment in the first place.)
Some people do that for inexplicable reasons, whether on SSRIs, withdrawing from SSRIs, or having never taken SSRIs.
Not that many people on SSRIs do anything violent and your perception is based on misund
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Is figure out why so many who are on SSRI's or had recently stopped taking them, become suicidal or go on shooting rampages, or both.
It's people like you who encourage the stigma that we're in this mess where people go untreated for decades/lifetime, in spite of the fact that over 1/4 of everyone suffers from a diagnosable mental illness in any given year.
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I think the point is lost on you. These worst cases were people seeking treatment and got it, yet the treatment has failed.
As for where is the support for mental illness, well it's simple, there doesn't need to be any because for instances of depression, we have these wonder drugs called SSRI's that solve the problem. How much more support do you need when popping a few pills make the problem go away? That was sarcasm by the way.
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I think that the point of /my/ message is that maybe you should not be painting with such a broad brush and implying that anyone taking SSRIs is a time bomb waiting to go on a shooting rampage.
Asshole.
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BMO
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When you're really depressed, you're unlikely to kill yourself. That takes initiative. Something that increases initiative without seriously reducing the emotional pain will make suicide more likely. Moreover, you're unlikely to get monotonically less depressed. At some point, you're going to feel the depression coming back, and you will have not only motivation and initiative but a very strong reason to do anything necessary to not get depressed again.
Obsession can be reduced dramatically sometimes- (Score:1)
When I took an SSRI ( Prozac ) prior to taking the stuff I had trouble
conecntrating on on thing at a time. The analogy I would use to describe
this among the folks who read Slashdot is : it was as though my brain
had too many "apps" open at the same time. Or perhaps "too many
open windows on the desktop".
Within a few days of starting the drug I experienced a dramatic increase in my
ability to think about one and only one thing without unrelated thoughts intruding.
Feelings of depression and helplessness were als
food for thought (Score:2)
Is mood a state-to-be achieved (intentional in some way), or is it some symptom of the total complex and state of brain chemistry at a certain moment.
'Mood regulation' to me smacks too much of some homunculus.
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Both. How you feel is defined by the chemicals in your head, but you can learn to control them or learn specific thoughts and techniques that change the chemical make-up in predictable ways. Thus giving you the ability to reach a specific mood by intention.
Study subject not depressive (Score:3)
Tthe summary says:
Study subjects did not have diagnoses of depression
If they do not have the problem, how could we hope to see something about the problem improvement?
Re:Study subject not depressive (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's obviously the beginning of a research project. Take a drug - see what it does to 'normal' people with the testing platform you are using (in this case functional MRI), then try it on different clinical diagnoses. Remember, most medical diagnoses and especially psychiatric ones are not binary events - they lie on a continuum. We really don't know how to diagnose most patients with complex psychiatric problems. We typically give them several overlapping diagnoses that really don't explain the patient
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The main problem is that psychoactive drugs have VASTLY different effects depending on your baseline of operation. Especially with you're dealing with a drug like an SSRI, which by itself doesn't put something into your body but rather keeps your body from eliminating something.
That first and foremost requires something to exist, and the lack thereof IS exactly the problem.
Is it me or is it considerable bullshit to examine the effect in a healthy specimen?
Flawed premise (Score:1)
The premise of the story is flawed. While SSRIs take a week or two to show positive results, the initial effects of the drugs are almost immediate. I've taken anti-depressants and I can say that there is a very quick emotional reactions to them. Not a positive reaction, but there is one there. Friends who have taken the drugs and I agree, there first few days brings a roller coaster of emotions and a sick-to-the-stomach feeling. That eases off after a few days followed by a dull fuzzy feeling, followed by t
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My reaction was different. I didn't have any major effects when I started taking Paxil, except that a few days later I felt there was now a floor that would support me if my depression tried to increase. I have no way to tell whether this was a placebo effect or not.
SSRI effect times... (Score:1)
This is no secret to anyone who has popped one of his GF's Lexapro pills to last longer in the sack with said GF a few hours later.
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This is no secret to anyone who has popped one of his GF's Lexapro pills to last longer in the sack with said GF a few hours later.
SSRIs are well known to cause sexual dysfunction in males (some SSRIs and some males more than others), but this is the first I've heard about escitalopram increasing sexual stamina. As such, I wouldn't rule out a placebo effect, especially since so many factors can affect libido.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Posting as AC -- the effect is to interfere with the ability to "finish." For those with premature "issues," this can be a benefit. For those of us with "normal" "stamina," it may cause an inability to "finish," essential providing infinite, though very frustrating stamina.
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Verifying the above. My GF loved having me on SSRI.
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Yup, the parent is correct, SSRI side-effect can be frustrating on one's own but in the right company being a (apologies) 'machine' does have its advantages.
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When I was on Paxil, I went ~15 months without once having a conscious hard-on.
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That's why I switched to Zoloft: after a month or so, my mood had considerably improved, but I realized I hadn't had a conscious thought about sex in that time.
An SSRI turned me into a sadomasochist for a decad (Score:3, Interesting)
A long time ago, I took an SSRI called Luvox in order to treat OCD. Within a month, the drug had turned pain signals into pleasure. Headaches, burning myself via a hot water faucet--I would literally feel pleasure from these normally painful experiences. I stopped right away, and those effects lingered for a decade. Prior to that, I had taken Prozac and Zoloft without significant effects that I remember. But after seeing an SSRI make my particular brain sadomasochistic, I never popped another SSRI pill and I never will again. They really do change the brain, and I'm convinced that the outliers (read: really smart people with non-normal brain chemistry perhaps--at that time, I was pretty damn smart :)) have brain chemistries that react in vastly different ways than the baseline. I know this isn't exactly on topic, but it was shocking how much my brain changed from what should have been just the early trial period of the drug and for how long that lasted, and frankly how much it pushed me into brand-new areas of being f'ing crazy. I would heartily recommend against using these things, especially to the types of people that are going to read 0-level comments on slashdot. :) I'm also convinced that even if it seems kinda normal, it could very well not be and be royally messing up other parts of your consciousness that just aren't as apparent as suddenly pain=pleasure. And I highly suspect this kind of thing is happening when kids who see psychiatrists and are on drugs, smart loners, go f'ing nuts and kill people. Random rewiring of the brain because they have unique chemistries. That's just my theory though, just knowing how "crazy" I got. I figure it more or less follows from giving these things to so many people and knowing how drastically wrong they can go. And sadomasochism may not be the right term as it didn't involve sexual feelings or anybody else. It's just like my wires got crossed and stayed that way, tapering off, for a decade.
Old news but relevant (Score:2)
On July 2, 2012 UK-based GlaxoSmithKine (GSK) agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges of fraudulent promotion of its drugs and pay the US Government a settlement of US$3 billion. If accepted, this will be the largest fine imposed on a drug company, surpassing the $23 billion paid by Pfizer for inappropriate marketing in 2009. The amount adds to GSK's $750 million settlement in 2010 over manufacturing quality. What is particularly egregious about GSK's fraud is the calculated deceit and potential human co
Not surprising (Score:2)
Yes, whenever I started taking antidepressants I could feel SOMETHING happening within a few hours, so that's not a surprise. But as others have said, the depression doesn't lift for a while - weeks to months. In fact, the nervousness and anxiety gets worse than ever for the first week. (No surprise that suicide is common soon after starting them.)
I think the reason is that at least some kinds of depression (anxious depression) are like having over-sensitive ears, and being bothered by the random noises tha
wait for it, wait for it (Score:1)
someone publishes a study that says weed does more or less the same thing and 10 million stoners jump up and shout 'science is fucking bullshit, man'
Structural MRI? (Score:2)
Serotonin and the Pharma Industry (Score:1)
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Trust me, there are emotions you want blunted. Permanently, if possible, unless you can get rid of them entirely.
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I gained 180lbs. in two years while I was on Zoloft and Paxil. I wasn't a small person to begin with. I was doing things like eating two large take-out pizzas a day when I could afford to do it. The sick thing was that I was under care of a psychiatrist, a psychologist and my primary care physician, and none of them thought my weight gain was an issue worth addressing.
I got debilitating headaches, spent a good chunk of my 20s with absolutely zero sex drive, only slept about four hours a night and had troubl
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Given the number of people who have been on SSRIs, I suspect you could construct a similar collection with innumerable other common factors (as long as they're reasonably common). Sort of like somebody looking at all the suicide reports during the big anti-D&D hysteria, and pointing out that, if those were all the suicides associated with D&D use, D&D must be reducing the suicide rate.