Science Has a Sexual Assault Problem 460
cold fjord writes: Phys.org reports, "The life sciences have come under fire recently with a study published in PLOS ONE that investigated the level of sexual harassment and sexual assault of trainees in academic fieldwork environments. The study found 71% of women and 41% of men respondents experienced sexual harassment, while 26% of women and 6% of men reported experiencing sexual assault. The research team also found that within the hierarchy of academic field sites surveyed, the majority of incidents were perpetrated by peers and supervisors. The New York Times notes, "Most of these women encountered this abuse very early in their careers, as trainees. The travel inherent to scientific fieldwork increases vulnerability as one struggles to work within unfamiliar and unpredictable conditions."
Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:3, Insightful)
I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Funny)
It tells me that the definitions are too broad to be useful. Oh, crap, I said "broad". Now I'm guilty too!
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Well yes, you are, guilty of deflecting criticism by claiming the definitions are too broad.
That's a common defensive reaction.
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There was some feminazi that went on a tear because some guy had the audacity to hit on her. Then she whined when the corresponding community luminaries pointed out that she was being a hysterical idiot. The whole situation was portrayed as proof that "X community is mysoginistic".
It was all a load of mindless victimology.
There can be a wide gap between how a bunch of extremist crusaders define a term and how the rest of us define it.
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Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
If he's talking about "Elevatorgate", then he's accurate, even if he's not calm about it.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Informative)
No, because if that is what the poster was referencing, "going on a tear" was actually saying "guys, don't do that", with the context being: sexual propositioning a stranger in an enclosed space in a foreign country at 4 AM after having just listened to the person you're propositioning give a presentation that included discussion on how the constant sexual propositions she received at these conferences made her uncomfortable.
THAT in turn led to her receiving a never-ending wave of abuse, including rape and death threats, and including having one of the most prominent male voices in the movement insultingly state that women in the west shouldn't complain about sexism because women in Islamic countries have it a lot worse.
It was after all THAT, that she, quite rightly, started going on a tear.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
No, what they're talking about is, according to the article:
“Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at a field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you).”
That's not sexual assault. I'm not even sure it rises to the level of sexual harassment.
Flirtation isn't sexual harassment. I'm sure every woman in the country must have been the subject of welcome and unwelcome flirtations.
At a recent professional meeting, a woman made suggestive sexual remarks to me about a computer program. If I had said the same thing to another woman, the second woman could have interpreted it as harassment under that definition.
There's a lot of grey areas and political correctness. If you want to look at it with publications in the scientific literature, fine. Let's use rigorous scientific methods to find out what the magnitude of sexual assault is. The first step is get your definitions right.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Interesting)
You should read the study, not the article about the study, if you are going to criticize it. The thing you quoted was about harassment, not assault.
http://www.plosone.org/article... [plosone.org]
"Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you.)"
Is the question about sexual assault.
The grey areas are overwhelmed by the black and white areas. If you feel there are too many grey areas, talk to your manager about getting on a course to help you.
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Hint, pressing your body up against an unwilling partner is unwanted sexual contact.
Greeting someone with a hug is not sexual contact, unwanted or otherwise.
No, and women will not interpret it as such, even if you misread a situation and give a hug when it was not expected. There is a big difference between a friendly hug and something sexually suggestive. Duration, for a start.
How the fuck is someone meant to know when you do and don't hug anyway.
It may be a social faux-pas, but trust me, it's equally fucking awkward when you have Aspergers and people actually expect a hug.
Yes, understanding when and when not to hug can be problematic if you don't always read the social signs properly. Similar with social kissing. I think most people have had awkward moments like this. There are huge differences between social groups anyway, so misreading the signs is not
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Flirtation, on the job, especially by supervisors, is pretty damn hard to distinguish from sexual harassment. (And may actually legally be sexual harassment, when done at work.)
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Really? You don't think sexual harassment and assault happen in the "1st world"?
You have a *very* selective view of the world around you.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Dawkins has realized that he was using a logical fallacy and has since apologized for that tweet so everyone in this thread that is trying to defend him looks pretty silly.
She never accused the guy of harassment or assault. She was just pointing out behavior that she found to be creepy and used it as an example of what not to do. The whole video in question had to do with things that make women feel uncomfortable and thus not attend certain conferences. Yes, people have to deal with that from time to time in the larger society but if a specific group of people want to be more inclusive than they certainly shouldn't issue death threats just because someone had the nerve to point out some of those "awkward and uncomfortable" things.
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Unfortunately, some people have gotten it into their heads that they have a right to not feel awkard, and that feeling awkward makes them "violated". A clear abuse of the word, if I've ever seen any.
If a woman ask men kindly not to do some kinds of things because it makes her feel awkward (and it should be obvious even without asking), and if a man then does it anyway, the word `violated' seems pretty accurate to me. He's not interested in her comfort, he's just interested in is own jollies.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't want to look like a creep - ask the girl to your room around witnesses (they don't have to hear, just as long as you make it feel safe for her to refuse). Waiting until your alone in a confined space, if not harassing, is very bad manners to the point of being ungentlemanly. Don't do that, guys.
Oh the irony of it all ... (Score:4, Insightful)
"you transsexual weirdo"
"I did *NOT* bother "shim"
The others included references and links to a pic from Rocky Horror Picture Show, saying that I was nuts for "cutting off my balls", "He/She", Frank. N. Furter, "you are mentally unhinged by taking estrogen to attempt to upset your body's natural order of things, which yes, includes your mind taking a huge hit. You have mentally unbalanced yourself more than doing something quite insane in a sex change to yourself also."
And a lot more. And this goes on every day ...
Sexual harassment in a thread about sexual harassment? This all started because someone asked "What is APK" and I told them.
Now, back on topic, the headline is mislabeled (so what else is new). It says "Science has a sexual assault problem," whereas the actual survey talks about sexual harassment. And a lot of posters seem to have failed to make the distinction.
One (not exhaustive) definition of sexual harassment I would use is words or acts containing references to sex or sexual identity that either make me uncomfortable, or, or, in APK's case, were intended to make me uncomfortable but failed. Sexual assault, on the other hand, is when I'm lying on a hospital gurney in emergency with paper towels stuffed between my legs to stop the bleeding after being attacked. And for the doubters that sexual assault is under-reported, I didn't report that incident - the doctors did. I couldn't tell them. I just wanted the whole world to leave me suffer alone in peace.
Sexual harassment is not a case of "I'll know it when I see it", because too many of the harassers simply don't get it in the first place. Saying so doesn't make me a feminazi - there are plenty of men who do "get it". And there are other parts of the world where it's a heck of a lot worse, due to a culture that treats women as 3rd-class citizens.
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You've got it.
There are clear and exact boundaries accepted by rational and sane people. Hitting or flirting on someone - especially a peer, is not harassment. Some "feminists" think it is.
Hitting on a subordinate, especially a direct report, is not acceptable.
Hitting on someone AFTER they ask you to stop crosses the line into harassment.
It's that simple.
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The length you've gone to distort the facts of that situation speaks volumes about the source of the problem we're talking about.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Only? Slashdot is FULL of people with sanctimonious behavior on a ton of subjects.
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Actually Slashdot is like that about everything. What really gets to some on Slashdot is how people like you act all sanctimonious and incredulous when people disagree about something, and only when it comes to feminism.
Correct.
Dipshits like "I kan reed" are always champing at the bit to jump on the next agenda bandwagon so they can scream at everyone else how they're terrible people while ignoring other problems completely because they're not represented by mob of "enlightened" retards.
Dialogue v. Trolling (Score:5, Insightful)
Well yes, you are, guilty of deflecting criticism by claiming the definitions are too broad.
That's a common defensive reaction.
Problems should be well-defined. Someone can take that position whether they're doing it defensively or not and still be making a legitimate point. Calling it defensive, notably on a topic where there is moral stigma associated with being defensive about it, is just an ad hominem attack.
There are plenty of legitimate critiques of Parent's message--he appears to be dismissing out-of-hand an issue that affects hundreds of millions of people a year. He also failed to state what definitions he thinks are too broad to be useful. Responding with a question about one or more of those that might make people think about the issue is the difference between trolling and dialogue.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, crap, I said "broad". Now I'm guilty too!
you joke but you are probably correct here. The issue is not that 71% of all women are being sexually assaulted. Its that 71% of all women "feel assaulted" Somehow in the past 40 years what someones feelings are trump what the actual actions are.
Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.
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Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.
That was before the PC revolution, and I'm not talking about computers here.
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Saying something sexual, is NOT sexual assault.
That was before the PC revolution, and I'm not talking about computers here.
2015 will be the year of Linux on the vagina!
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
Same goes for women.
Why is it always the men that get singled out here? That 6% figure for men ought to be far more eye opening than the figure for women. Basically 1, it's definitely underrported and 2, the focus is still on the women. The focus is always on the women.
Few men bother to report sexual assault or rape because there's little point in doing so. Most people are under the belief that women don't do that and even if they were to try, it's not technically possible. But, it does happen, even if most cases get swept under the rug.
As far as the figures for women go, most of the time it's 3rd parties defining it as sexual assault even in cases where the "victim" wouldn't consider it to be sexual assault.
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ive known someone personally getting in trouble for sexual harassment for simply saying that the woman was wearing a nice shirt today. to her, that was sexual assault, to anyone with common sense, it was a complement
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the problem is that it doesnt matter if any harassment or assault happens these days. all there needs to be for sexual assault/harassment is for someone to "feel" abused, intent no longer matters.
You're correct in identifying the standard that is used for sexual harassment. If someone feels harassed, then the issue is treated as harassment. That is not, however, the problem or a problem. It doesn't mean that you'll be fired or even disciplined as a result of the complaint. All it means is that when an employee submits a harassment complaint, that HR treats the complaint seriously and investigates each complaint consistently. If they find that the complaint warrants discipline, then the offendin
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Informative)
Well, here's the actual questions:
The section is entitled Sexual harassment and assault so you would hope people would be contextually aware that "or other jokes" means of a sexual nature. But it's still a badly worded question. I further assume the reader is supposed to parse "inappropriate or sexual" as prefixes for the other items, but we live in a tightly wound panties world when comments about physical beauty are harassment.
The problem, again, is a terribly worded question. Are we to again assume physical should extend through the commas? Or is unwanted sexual contact just a fat girl asking a handsome dude to get a date after the working day is done. Is all physical contact unwanted sexual contact now?
The math for their statistical distributions is fine.
Their questions suck, lack good wording, and lack examples. [Not limited to but including... ...excluding FOO, but not limited to BAR.]
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Apparently having an opinion apart from the group-think gets some pretty heavy moderation these days...
Does someone actually think these are well-worded questions that provide a clear understanding of the definitions of "sexual harassment" and "physical sexual harassment," or do they just prefer people not see the post by modding it down?
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we live in a tightly wound panties world when comments about physical beauty are harassment.
Which is why there's a lot of eye rolling when the topic comes up. No matter how many trainings you make your employees go to, you cannot force them to accept complimenting somebody as assault. Just like the movie Reefer Madness, once you've compromised a part of your message by being ridiculous the entirety of your message is dismissed altogether. I don't know what mental deficiency exists in the minds of people who
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Is it wrong for me to tell a coworker "Nice dress" or "Cool tie"?
some people misinterpret compliments as sexual harassment, and that's just plain dumb.
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Here's one of the questions:
The following questions could be answered as “Yes,” “No,” or “I don't know:”
“Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at a field site? (If you have had more than one experience, the most notable to you).”
In terms of good experimental design, that does seem too broad. "Comments about physical beauty" could be harassment or not. It's a leading question. What's inappropriate? They're not measuring sexual harassment, they're measuring their respondents' subjective perceptions of their colleagues' comments.
It seems as if the researchers were designing the study with the intent of coming up with the largest numbers possible, in order to make the problem seem as big as possible.
Last wee
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Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
It is the mindless and baseless insults to anyone that disagrees with you that makes it flamebait. Your brazen strawmen that make people completely disregard what you have to say. That is also the number one reason that there is such a strong push-back against feminism. Obnoxious, pretentious blow-hards like yourself are the exact reason why so many people think feminism is a joke.
Of course you will continue to excuse your reprehensible attitude with pious self-importance and sarcastically shrug off any criticism with "most people that disagree are just misogynists" even though you have no reason the believe that and are shown otherwise every time you say it.
I want you to think about this, i kan reed, every time you feel someone is complaining about "straw-feminists" or "doesn't know what feminism is about". It is because of you and people like you. You are the number one reason that people have a bad image of feminism. It isn't misogyny. It isn't insecurities. People do not fear strong women nor do they fear losing their "privileges" (not that there aren't many feminists that love infringing on the rights of others). It is you. It is you and the other preening mooks like you. The self-aggrandizing attitude that because you are "feminist" you are morally superior and entitled to talk down, belittle, insult and defame anyone that dares say something you do not like.
You are a straw-feminist.
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It's flamebait to imply anything other than feminism is evil and actively attacking poor helpless men. Sorry you didn't know that. It antagonizes the misogynists.
So what are you saying here other than that anyone that thought your post was flamebait was an antagonized misogynist? I really don't understand how you can think people are going to take you seriously when you say moronic things like that. Especially when you say I am making a strawman. I read what you wrote and I am really unsure how to interpret it other than you implying people are misogynist.
And I don't give a fuck if you think I'm being "morally superior" to people whose behaviors are outright reprehensible.
That would be exactly my point. You just label anyone that disagrees with you to have "outright reprehensible be
I FIND THIS HIGHLY... (Score:2)
"I find this highly... Illogical."
BTW: What's with the adverb, Spock? A thing is in the category of logical distribution, or it is not. The presumption "Highly" is an illogical value judgement.
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Because there is actually nothing logical about Vulcans.
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Women regularly use their sexuality in the workplace for their gain. Watch how the young/attractive colleagues act around those in positions of power, compared to other female or lower grade staff, especially when they want something. E.g. time off when shit is hitting the fan, or when vacation days are all blocked off due to lack of staff. They're conditioned early on to use it for their advantage, but don't see the hypocrisy of their position.
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Hey!
Us handsome dudes get extra rewards too. Just because we look so fucking good.
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Who?
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This is anecdotal, but a friend works in academia and hears about grad students being coerced. They put up with it because reporting their advisor would undo everything they've been working for years on, and they're so close to the end the personal cost is just too high.
Some professions like accounting require you to intern at one company. It's possible dropping out of that mid-program could be as much of a setback.
Whereas if you have a harassing boss in an office job, you can turn them in and find another
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You know, this has some truth to it. The root of the problem though, is that this kind of crap from supervises is tolerated. It's a problem with permanent-contract and tenure culture just as much, because the offenders cannot be dealt with or fired with cause as they should.
I do sympathize with people who are in such vulnerable positions. I only wish they operated like where I work - where if anyone tried this kind of thing they'd simply get fired, as they should.
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Clearly you have not been paying attention.
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-servi... [fbi.gov]
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't think of a single profession which doesn't seem to have a "problem." Makes one wonder.
Makes you wonder what, exactly? That this is not a "problem", because "everybody's doing it?" WTF? Look pal, the "problem" is narrow-minded, clueless misogynist views like that.
Wow! Just wow! I was thinking the same thing myself, except I put "this is a societal problem, not one just in the academic community," after 'Makes one wonder'. Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.
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> Way to go in projecting your fears and negativity on others.
The GP didn't do that. They weren't responding to you. That evidence is an example of you projecting.
The OP (rinukuzu) made an excellent observation -- that this is not limited to a single profession. The obvious implication is that this is a problem with our whole society, yet Jawnn assumed the GP was somehow trying to claim the problem doesn't exist. That isn't supported by what was posted.
Yes, I know Jawnn wasn't responding to me -- I hadn't posted anything. I was just struck by the completely negative tone, with Jawnn making a failrly obvious faulty assumptions about what the OP said.
I'm not sure wh
Re:Is there a single field that doesn't? (Score:4, Insightful)
"Makes you wonder what, exactly?"
That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?
Insightful, my ass.
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That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?
That's what I was trying to figure out how to say. Thanks for being more eloquent than I. Though, at the same time, there is the issue of the scare quotes around the word "problem" in the OP's post.
I think that while your statement about this problem not being isolated to nerd communities is dead-on and an important point, I also think it is reasonable to interpret OP's post in the way Jawnn did
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We should all be working together to stop harassment and violence . Nerds have been subject to prejudicial sterotyping, too. That should (and I think does) make us more understanding of the problem, not less. Instead of sniping at each other, let's bury our hatchets and work the problem.
There. FTFY.
There are no hatchets to bury, IMHO. In my experience, reasonable, decent people all agree that harassment and violence are inappropriate. The horrible things a small minority of people do should be roundly criticized and much more aggressively prosecuted.
I get that people are mad about these issues. It makes me quite angry as well, At the same time, I agree with you that spewing vitriol at those who agree is counterproductive, I'd go further and say that those who can be reasoned with, sho
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"Makes you wonder what, exactly?"
That this is a widespread social problem and not something restricted to just the nerdy professions. Project much?
Insightful, my ass.
Thank you. Apparenlty, there aren't enough people who disagree with Jawnn, so he or she needs to attack someone who is making a reasonable and supportable claim which, based on Jawnn's rant, is in full support of what they believe. Sigh.
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There's simply no shortage of willing participants for adult film actresses. Producers don't need to drug them. They are, after all, producing and distributing a video record of their event -- which seems unwise.
Do some willing adult film actresses use drugs, appear on camera under the influence, or even produce drug-themed adult films? Absolutely.
Repeat? (Score:2)
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And it was placed on the front page by the same editor, Soulskill.
http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]
Considering how long ago 1998 was, I think that it's time to start taking in account things like possible early onset senility of the editors.
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"Highly" trained?
Reporting bias? (Score:3, Insightful)
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Most of the harassment men experienced was from peers.
Of course, there's always the grey area, "if someone says I'm handsome, is that harassment, or is it a compliment?"
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The questions on the test make it impossible to known if male supervisors were likely to harass women more, or if there were simply more male superiors.
There isn't a separate section that says "if you had a female superior."
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Such behaviors aimed at men originated primarily from peers, whereas such behaviors aimed at women primarily originated from individuals the respondent identified as superior to them in the field site professional hierarchy (Figure 2B).
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It is true that women are more likely to report sexual assault(these days) than men. But the differences aren't tremendously dramatic. Google scholar is being awful and not helping me find the study, but I seem to recall it was in the neighborhood of 30% for women and more like 20% for men.
That's a dramatic enough difference to be quite concerned about how we treat male sexuality, but not so much as to cover the differences seen here.
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I've never been able to find any reliable under-reporting data for men, so this would be extremely interesting to see.
A priori I find it fairly implausible that men failing to report sexual assault is a lot more common than women, but would love to see the data. One informal observation is that in the multi-thousand-comment threads that are spawned after every accusation leveled at a public figure like Michael Shermer, there seem to be a lot of women self-identifying as victims of sexual assault but no men.
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I don't think that rates of reporting substantially undermine the presence of a problem, but I do have to agree with you.
Men learn from a young age that we crave sex, think about it constantly, would bang anything with enough paper bags available, blah blah blah. And while most of us realize that doesn't actually hold true, we tend to passively accept it as part of our social identity. Thus, when some troll
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...clearly some people don't get the fact that "no" doesn't mean "try again later".
Popular culture certainly doesn't help this. I'm willing to bet that if you look at the rom-coms that came out in the last few years, you'd see at least half of them have a suitor continue even after the love interest has said or expressed what effectively means "no."
Re:Reporting bias? (Score:5, Interesting)
Women are more likely to be the subject of a sexual advance because men are expected to initiate courtship. Differing social expectations and indoctrination will dictate that women find any advances more objectionable then would men regardless of the level of genuine menace the represent.
Re:Reporting bias? (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, whether a woman finds an advance to be "harassment" or not depends on whether or not she's interested in the man.
So let that be a lesson to you. If you want to avoid harassment: [liveleak.com]
1) Be handsome
2) Be attractive
3) Don't be unattractive
Then it happens less in science than in general (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Then it happens less in science than in general (Score:4, Insightful)
You're not comparing like against like. This study only looks at sexual assault in one particular environment (which, obviously, is part of someone's lifetime). The NIJ report looks at both physical and sexual assault, over an entire lifetime.
So that comparison does nothing to show whether sexual assault happens more or less often "in science" than "in general" or compared to any other workplace environment.
Prey (Score:2, Informative)
The weak prey on the weakest.
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The weak prey on the weakest.
so do the strong.
Not so much in the dating/reproductive game. This isn't like a lion looking for an easy meal. The strongest males seek the best females. It's an optimal reproductive strategy for producing the fittest offspring. And society has encoded it in its social structure. Be seen dating a lower ranked woman by the alpha females and you get points taken off your rank.
And then there's the whole etiquette thing: Proper social behaviour is learned, much like sports, if you practice correct technique, you improve your g
Science also has a random hook-up problem (Score:2, Interesting)
They are also being entertained at conferences by a lot of vendors with fat wallets. To say beer flows like water at some of these events is an understatement to say the least. It isn't hard to see how this can lead to sexual assault as well. It of course in no way justifies it, but the culture doesn't impede it very well, either.
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This was more or less speaking about field researchers. I myself was a field researcher in my mid-20s with other 20 somethings. We were all underpaid and overworked, same as our laboratory counterparts, but with a twist. Field researchers work in remote locations. There were even very intimate settings, such as the time I and my opposite gender colleague shared a single tent over the course of 3 days on a deserted island hundreds of miles from another human being. Nothing happened, but the opportunity routi
HOw to tell a ridiculous sexual claim. (Score:3, Insightful)
2) If the men have a significant response rate, then just maybe that means the problem is YOUR QUESTION IS TOO VAGUE, rather than both genders experiencing sexual issues.
The mere fact that this article claims that 40+% of men experience 'sexual harassment', proves that their definition of 'sexual harassment' is not reasonable - the kind of thing only a PC fool trying to prove a problem exists would use.
Similarly, 6% of men experience sexual assault seems on the high side, though not as ridiculous as the 41% claiming harassment.
The only thing going on here is idiots using bad definitions for their poll.
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Wow, how unscientific can you get? You've decided on what you want the result to be and you're discarding data that doesn't fit.
Sexual assault is really, really common. It's not just another word for rape, it covers any unwanted sexual touching. I had a woman I didn't know grope me as I was leaving a club last week. That's sexual as
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Look, lets say I have a test that determines who who should go to Harvard and who should go to community college. If the test says 41% of people should go to Harvard, that is useless.
If 41% of people are experience activity X, than that means that X is NOT THAT BAD. Otherwise people would take steps to avoid that experience.
Say we were were talking about people getting "Cragled" in Central Park. If 41% of people are getting "Cr
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Why are you assuming that male sexual assault victims are rare? According to the CDC:
19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes.
1.6% of women and a negligible number of men had been raped in the 12 months preceding the survey.
Note: Forced or otherwise coerced sex is not rape unless there is penetration of the vagina or anus, or penetration of the mouth by a sexual organ, as per the definition given by the US DOJ.
43.9% of women and 23.4% of men have experienced other forms of sexua
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Study Questions (Score:5, Informative)
Phrasing of the questions in a survey is important to fully understanding the problem that is being examined. Here are the study questions [plosone.org]. Two of the most relevant questions are these:
32. Have you ever personally experienced inappropriate or sexual remarks, comments about physical beauty, cognitive sex differences, or other jokes, at an anthropological field site?
39. Have you ever experienced physical sexual harassment, unwanted sexual contact, or sexual contact in which you could not or did not give consent or felt it would be unsafe to fight back or not give your consent at an anthropological field site?
The PLOS ONE document [plosone.org] itself is very thorough, and worth reading through to more fully understand the issue.
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...and both of those look like they need to be broken out into a number of distinct questions. Every comma and "or" muddles the resulting data.
Although I've been part of the phone survey racket. So I know all about how these things can be distorted to suit the agenda of the company paying for the study.
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comments about physical beauty
So, "your hair looks nice" is sexual harassment?
Re:Study Questions (Score:5, Informative)
Yep and inappropriate comments like "your are stupid" suddenly get mixed together with "sexual" because the question asks about "inappropriate or sexual" instead of "inappropriate sexual".
But this is a minor problem. The bigger problem is their approach to sampling. They use voluntary online survey. These type of surveys tend to be answered by people with vested interest in the topic and ignored by people busy with other things. How do I know that their sample is no good? Here is a quote
Hundreds of respondents, recruited online, answered our survey questions. A majority of the sample were women N = 516/666 (77.5%).
So they have a miniscule sample, that is horribly biased towards one sex (for comparison see the gender and race distribution in academia here [nsf.gov]".
Re:Study Questions (Score:5, Informative)
Holy crap I didn't realize that. A self-selected online survey? And based at that absolutely meaningless metric, "science has a sexual assault problem?" Fuck that.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
comments about cognitive sex differences.
So everytime someone says something about women being superior or smarter I am being sexually harassed?
Re: (Score:2)
Have you ever personally experienced ... other jokes, at an anthropological field site?
Umm. So did the studier notice that they ask the subjects if they have ever experienced jokes at an anthropological field site?
Prof. John Nash (A beautiful mind). (Score:2)
He basically asks the girl to simply skip the pleasant introduction, courting etc. and just go for the sex.
IT'S A DUPE! (Score:2)
Hey Soulskill! Having issues with memory or is it something related to sex in general?
Same study, same slashdot editor, 2 months ago...
http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]
So, why not just go over there and read the +4 and +5 comments for the last time?
http://science.slashdot.org/co... [slashdot.org]
object to the title (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed. I'm sick of getting lumped into a "victimizer group" constantly. There are assholes who harass and assault women and should be dealt with. But it's got nothing to do with me.
Sexism absolutely exists. There are those who, upon learning Steve is bad at math will say, "Wow Steve, you suck at math." But upon learning that Amy is bad at math will say "Girls suck at math."
But without irony, men in different groups are lumped together because of the actions of some assholes.
Some women are harassed in field
nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
The article looks at field work, not science as a whole. The results are self-reported, not verified or verifiable. And "harassment" and "assault" are defined so broadly that many normal day-to-day interactions can fall under them. In short, there is no evidence that "science has a sexual assault problem" in any standard meaning of those words.
Much as feminists and other progressives like to establish such a principle, in reality, just because you feel uncomfortable or believe that something was inappropriate doesn't mean anybody has actually done anything wrong.
Given the relative percentages... (Score:2)
Given the relative percentages... it's likely that the "harassment escalating to assault" numbers for the men is underreported by a factor of 2.5, which would be about on a par with the underreporting of men being raped in the general population. There's a real cultural stigma to reporting by men, who are, by stereotype and therefore societal norms, "supposed to be" on the other end of the power equation.
Really? (Score:2)
Poindexter is more likely going to get his ass kicked by Helga, the research assistant who can pick up a tyrannosaurus thighbone.
NERDS! (Score:2)
Nerd: Look at the terrible NFL and how they treat women.
Woman: ORLY?
Re: (Score:2)
Where can "sexual assault" be defined as "an offensive comment"?
Not in this study. There had to be physical contact for it to be assault.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And that's a recurring problem in these discussions. That the sexists will imagine a strawman version of the methodology in order to dismiss it. Strawmanning these kinds of concerns is one of two tools in their toolbox. The other is "ignore this, there's [other vaguely comparable problem] so it's balanced" as if the correct thing to do isn't addressing both issues.
Re: (Score:2)
No. It's a recurring problem in these discussions because radical feminists will redefine terms. So it's hard to know at any one time whose definition you are dealing with. Are you dealing with something sane or are you dealing with something that's been "trumped up" in order to push an agenda?
You can't trust any random study to be free from such biases.
Then you end up with the basic magnitude problems that occur when dire claims fail to meet basic sanity with respect to numeracy.
If you're actually numerate
Re: (Score:2)
No, we clearly saw the OP redefine the terms, and the first reply chastise the liar.
You can make up a narrative like that for yourself, if you wish, but I was clearly correct in this particular case.
So, shut up.
Re: (Score:2)
And so you use that strawman, in response to me saying people like you strawman, and you cite no evidence it's real.
Good fucking job.
You can impugn my character all you want. Calling out people who are perpetuating lies on the internet is seen as perfectly reasonable in other discussions, but so you random ACs will bring the wrath of god if you ever dare to call misogynistic shitfucks on it.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
In science, we call that a biological need to reproduce with the fittest specimens available.