Spanish Conquest May Have Altered Peru's Shoreline 94
sciencehabit (1205606) writes "The Spanish conquest of the Inca had a profound effect on Peru's indigenous people, but a new study reveals that it also had an unexpected impact on the land itself. Before the Spaniards arrived, inhabitants of the arid northern Peruvian coast clad massive sand dune-like ridges with an accidental form of 'armor': millions of discarded mollusk shells, which protected the ridges from erosion for nearly 4700 years and produced a vast corrugated landscape that is visible from space. This incidental landscape protection came to a swift end, however, after diseases brought by Spanish colonists decimated the local population and after colonial officials resettled the survivors inland. Without humans to create the protective covering, newly formed beach ridges simply eroded and vanished."
Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast? (Score:5, Insightful)
Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast (in a way that would not be allowed in US wetlands) and when the Spanish came the coast was returned to nature?
Re:Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The indigenous peoples didn't get the permission of regulators appointed by politicians elected by giant concrete canyon cities choking with people desirable of dictating what happens in states and regions that do not belong to them because yay democracy.
If this brutally honest description upsets, oh well.
Re:Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast? (Score:5, Informative)
Nothing against the white man, and full disclosure would reveal that my mother actually married one, but I'm just simple.
Anthropogenic anything is still nature's, and the universe's, hand at work...
Our super-sized egos aside, we are not separate from the rest of existence.
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Our super-sized egos aside, we are not separate from the rest of existence.
Now you've done it...
Me, I'm waiting for the ABE (Anthropogenic Beach Erosion) crowd to scream and belittle "deniers" who will question the assertion that those evil Spaniards were actually at fault, or if they just introduced better foods...
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Infiltrate yourself into every little nook and cranny that can sustain you.
And, if evolution has given you the right mix of large brain and clever hands, you can alter the nooks and crannies to suit you.
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And, if evolution has given you the right mix of large brain and clever hands, you can alter the nooks and crannies to suit you.
It's worth extending this thought a bit further to recognize that virtually all human life is based on altering the nooks and crannies. If you were to require humans to live in the world as-is -- no buildings, no farms, heck, even making clothing is arguably altering the environment to make it more livable -- there's very, very little area of this planet that could support human life. And even in the few regions that could support human life, that life would be harsh, dangerous and unpleasant.
We live by a
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But anyone who thinks our goal should be to avoid altering our environment really hasn't thought it through, because the only way to achieve that goal is for us to cease existing.
There are people who believe that those espousing "avoid altering our environment" have thought it through, and their goal really is for humans to cease existing. I'm currently leaning toward believing these people.
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But anyone who thinks our goal should be to avoid altering our environment really hasn't thought it through, because the only way to achieve that goal is for us to cease existing.
There are people who believe that those espousing "avoid altering our environment" have thought it through, and their goal really is for humans to cease existing. I'm currently leaning toward believing these people.
If there are any such people, it would seem appropriate for them to start by removing themselves. I don't wish anyone ill, but it would be the logical step.
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But anyone who thinks our goal should be to avoid altering our environment really hasn't thought it through, because the only way to achieve that goal is for us to cease existing.
There are people who believe that those espousing "avoid altering our environment" have thought it through, and their goal really is for humans to cease existing. I'm currently leaning toward believing these people.
If there are any such people, it would seem appropriate for them to start by removing themselves. I don't wish anyone ill, but it would be the logical step.
See, they know you won't follow through after they're gone. That's why only they can be trusted to manage the process.
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See, they know you won't follow through after they're gone. That's why only they can be trusted to manage the process.
But how do I know they will follow through?
Actually, I probably don't have to worry about that, since their ability to survive without supermarkets and the global supply chains which stock them is basically zero. They'll die even if they change their minds. So, I suppose I have to bow to their logic. Except that they can bite me, of course.
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isn't the point of the article that it was altering the ecosystem? Now how do we differentiate between harm and alter?
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I agree with your premise but will say this regarding human alterations to the environment:
-- Slow changes allow the local flora and fauna to adapt, aka the oyster shell accumulation occured likely over many decades if not centuries allowing different plants to make their way in and establish themselves resulting in an environment that animals can then inhabit.
-- Fast changes are more likely to cause local flora and fauna to disappear, aka plowing up the prairie in North America in the space of a few decade
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Who said anything here about OK or bad?
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Despite the research it doesn't seem conclusive that man made "Costal Change" is anything other than a liberal misinformation conspiracy. Yes, some beach ridges have vanished or eroded, but the same thing happened during natural ice ages.
Re: Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast? (Score:1)
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They also altered anthropogenically modulated processes of shoreline change that had functioned for millennia.
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Disastrous - well, that's a loaded term. One organism's disaster is another's dinner. The world / universe just is.
But humans, along with all sorts of other plants and animals, have been changing the environment for a very long time.
For quite a bit more detail on South America, read 1493 [npr.org] and some of his other books.
TL;DR - there is no such thing as purely 'natural'.
Re: Weren't the Peruvians altering the coast? (Score:1)
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By definition, some types of wetland cannot form along coats.
You clearly have not been out in a good strong rain in Seattle. That wet land most definitely can form along - and through - coats.
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Sounds more like having sex with 10 out of 11 to me.
The Spaniards probably did that, too.
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Devastate is a perfectly good word.
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You sound like a moron when you write 'kill one of ten" when you mean "kill most of."
I could accept the changing use of the word if the damn prefix for one-tenth iwasn't part of it!
September, October, November, and December must drive you nuts then.
For some unknown reason, my favorite though is the divergence of Awful and Awesome.
Completely offtopic but I think 13 months each exactly 4 weeks long (or practically anything else)
would make more sense than what we currently have. We could just have the extra day or two
fall on a holiday so that the months/days/weeks always stay lined up.
Hey that's not bad.... (Score:2, Insightful)
This incidental landscape protection came to a swift end, however, after diseases brought by Spanish colonists decimated the local population
Can't be too bad since decimate means reduce by a 10th....
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Not necessarily. [oup.com]
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Not necessarily. [oup.com]
People could say "decimate" means "blue" but that still doesn't make it right, nor contravene its etymological origins. Hard to get around "deci" in there.....
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Actually, if enough people use "decimate" to mean "blue" such that it's commonly understood that when you say "decimate" you mean "blue", then it would indeed make it right! Likewise, if someone were to say that "decimate" means "reduce by a tenth" when it is almost never used that way, that person would be incorrect. Language is defined by usage.
I mean, unless you value language more for its ability to serve as a class/racial/national marker than its ability to facilitate communication.
And if half the people mean "blue" and the other half don't? What does that do for communication?
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Not necessarily. [oup.com]
People could say "decimate" means "blue" but that still doesn't make it right, nor contravene its etymological origins. Hard to get around "deci" in there.....
You mean like September, October, November and December? Words change.
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Are you sure? In latin, "decima" means 1/10, so I figured to decimate means to reduce TO 1/10, so BY 9/10.
The Spanish Inquistion (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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Visible from Space (Score:4, Funny)
Protip: If you are going to submit an article about something "visible from space", you should have a picture of said something taken from space.
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Show me a satalite that was around back then and I will find you a pick. Wait...
--=-..-=-- There is an artist's rendition for you.
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Since you can get a readable snap of a license plate from space with the appropriate satellite I'd say odd are pretty high "visible from space" is accurate.
Yeah, that phrase doesn't really mean much these days. Basically anything that is macroscopic.
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But visible from space in the 16th century was *very* impressive.
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you can get a readable snap of a license plate from space with the appropriate satellite
Cite?
Now I'm conflicted (Score:1)
I've been trained to loath dirty Europeans and their expansionist ways.... yet here they can claim allegiance to Gaia by stopping the coastal disruption of thoughtless natives altering the land for their own benefit.
What's a libtard to do!?
Loath everyone. As usual.
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So ... (Score:2)
Slashdotters to the rescue! (Score:1, Flamebait)
Instead, the intrepid slash dotters apply their personal biases to declare a completely contrary meaning, The stoopid treehuggas, Global warming denial, leeebu
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Dude, have a glass of wine and relax. You'll live longer (especially if it's red wine).
Sorry OM, I'm Tequila fueled.
Your Tequila is showing (Score:2)
Especially on that post.
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Chief accepts your challenge, Good sir (or Ma'am).
When the American Native started getting "illegally obtained" firearms, they started getting a little more respect; not much, but enough to suppress complete annihilation.
Not bad, not bad.
Care to go for the gold and relate the Peruvian's downfall to gay marriage? 500 bonus points to be had.
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Naw, screw that. Those points are only redeemable for an NPR coffee mug.
Screw you, MeeShell Norris (Norris!) and you too, Ira Plato. (but now lets all tune in to Diane Rehm)
I wonder whatever happened to Nina Totenbag?
I blame the mollusks (Score:2)
I they were tasty enough that the people travelled back to the shore to eat them, the shoreline wouldn't be eroding.
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Very shellfish of them. ...thank you, I'll be here all night, try the veal!
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I think it might only be you.
The last time I was in Spain ( ten years ago), a bunch of drunken youths were sitting around in the town center throwing bottles, yelling loudly, and annoying everyone.I'm sure they would have fought us if we hadn't ignored all the shit we were saying as we walked by.
An older local I knew believed that nothing was done because nobody wanted to go back to the days of Franco-Fascist-Can't-Do- Anything, which everyone hated with a passion,and as a result were tending to lean too f
I think it's racist (Score:3)
To consider what the non-white natives did worldwide as "natural" means giving them the same dignity as ants or beavers. "Then came the 'civilized human' (AKA white) and trampled it.
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To consider what the non-white natives did worldwide as "natural" means giving them the same dignity as ants or beavers. "
Beavers maybe, not ants. Even shamen (yeah that word is specific, but you know what I mean) don't claim to understand the ant mind, the world over. But what's wrong with the noble beaver? They create lakes. The natives certainly wouldn't mind the comparison, except for how you mean it.
That's Right, Blame the Spaniards (Score:2)
Since the slowing or cessation of dune / ridge formation started about 2800 years ago (according to one paper), one might want a little more evidence before blaming it all on the Conquistadors or the following Spanish occupiers.