FDA Tells Google-Backed 23andMe To Halt DNA Test Service 371
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Bloomberg reports that 23andMe Inc., the Google-backed DNA analysis company, has been told by US regulators to halt sales of its main product, the Saliva Collection Kit and Personal Genome Service, or PGS that tells users whether they carry a disease, are at risk of a disease and would respond to a drug because the kit is being sold without FDA's marketing clearance or approval. 'FDA is concerned about the public health consequences of inaccurate results from the PGS device,' says the agency. 'The main purpose of compliance with FDA's regulatory requirements is to ensure that the tests work.' 23andMe was founded six years ago by Anne Wojcicki, who recently separated from her husband, Google co-founder Sergey Brin. The FDA decided in 2010 that services claiming to evaluate a customer's risk of disease must be cleared by regulators if the companies sell directly to consumers. Most FDA-cleared genetic tests are for a single disease while 23andMe's would be the first to test for multiple conditions. 23andMe submitted FDA applications in July and September of 2012 for the least stringent of two types of medical device reviews but the FDA said the company failed to address 'the issues described during previous interactions'."
Entirely Reasonable (Score:4, Insightful)
Now cue all the Slashbertarians ranting about how restricting unproven medical testing is an assault on freedom...
Re:Entirely Reasonable (Score:4, Insightful)
Suppose I started marketing an HIV test, or a Hepatitis C test, or a tuberculosis test without demonstrating the test was effective?
Is anyone claiming these tests aren't effective? I don't see it in TFS, only claims that they don't have the right paperwork from the government.
Re:Entirely Reasonable (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe that's exactly what the problem is. 23&Me is selling the test but never submitted evidence to the FDA that it works. Why should they just assume it's good because they said so?
I think likely the test is fine, but they haven't shown it to be so, so why should the FDA approve?
Re:Entirely Reasonable (Score:5, Insightful)
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Is anyone claiming these tests aren't effective?
Yes. I am claiming these tests aren't effective.
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Then you're an idiot, because that is the only way to make any claim regarding effectiveness (positive or negative) at the individual gene level when we don't know all the genes, all the interactions of genes or the impact of "Junk DNA" (which we now know isn't junk but metadata).
23&Me do not diagnose. They identify SNPs that have a given (often very low) correlation with a condition. They state the current best guess at that correlation. That is it. There are no "tests" except for the SNPs themselves.
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"don't have the right paperwork" is a big deal. That's like not having a reliable source in a Wikipedia article.
You wouldn't want to go to a doctor who didn't have the right paperwork.
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Now cue all the Slashbertarians ranting about how restricting unproven medical testing is an assault on freedom...
I own my DNA!
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My brother is working for a company that is in the prototype stage for something similar, but for use in non-developed countries.
Their test you first create a cartridge that has the dna sample doped with a radioactive substance you want to match against. You insert the patients test sample, it gets treated by different chemicals in the cartridge, and if the dna is a match the radioactive substance is released and a faint glow occurs which the machine reads giving you a nearly instant result to let you know
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There is a distinct difference between a test for a specific disease and a test that tells you if you have DNA that may make you susceptible to possibly, maybe getting a disease compared to someone else's.
Also it isn't Food or a Drug or Medicine that involves ingesting/injecting/inhaling and can't cause physical harm if misused. It is a non diagnostic test that as at no point will it say 'you have disease x' or 'you don't have disease y'.
Its only a super advanced version of taking blood pressure and pulse..
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It's pretty simple. This is a screening test. It's supposed to be inaccurate as silly as that sounds. The point of it is, if there are ANY markers for the disease it's supposed to easily test positive. Then the user is supposed to go to a DOCTOR and verify the results. Even the initial tests they do in hospitals can sometimes give false positives as high as 80 to 90% of the time. So even if you do test positive, you still only have a 10% chance of actually having the disease.
Government regulation should be
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They ARE NOT telling you you have X, Y or Z. They are telling you that gene G is ASSOCIATED WITH an N% increased risk.
For chrissakes (or, as my kindle spellchecker insists, cheesecakes), at least bother to do basic research. Oh, that's right, the serious COMPETENT Slashdotters abandoned the site because of the overwhelming sheer stupidity out here.
I don't know why I bother. Anyone with an ounce of brain capacity can figure out that raised odds of 0.23% do not equal an absolute certainty of instant death. Bu
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Here is a nice slide show [aacc.org] which shows you the regulatory framework. You can, if you really have nothing more entertaining to do, look up the enabling legislation in the CFR [gpo.gov] (Code of Federal Regulations).
I do really hope you have something more enlightening to do....
Can't be true (Score:2)
Someone in another story was just telling us how wonderful the FDA are.
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The FDA actively work with drug companies known to be carrying out unauthorized tests on unwilling human subjects in Africa. They have accepted results from US prisons, where again no consent was ever given. They encourage the suppression of negative results in journals. Corrupt? They are better than certain historical medical authorities, but not significantly.
(No, I don't give a damn that 1960s and 1970s America had no restrictions on non-consensual biological and chemical experiments for medical purposes
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There is nothing to evaluate, except perhaps the lab conditions. The SNPs do not diagnose a condition, 23&Me do not offer any diagnosis, all that is given is a set of percentages relating to the correlation of an SNP with an effect. Correlation is NOT causation.
Upsetting the Apple Cart (Score:5, Insightful)
I've done the 23andMe testing and it has been of value. I'm not in close contact with much of my extended family and have almost no contact with the family on my father's side. It doesn't claim to diagnose or treat diseases or traits. What it does do is tell you if you're at elevated odds for a few select conditions, along with heritable traits. This is can be invaluable if you don't know that much about the medical history of your family.
Re:Upsetting the Apple Cart (Score:5, Insightful)
And you are apparently perfectly ok with the possibility that they could be completely wrong.
Nobody is saying that inexpensive dna testing is bad, just that the process needs to be verified that it works before it should be sold to the individual.
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> And you are apparently perfectly ok with the possibility that they could be completely wrong.
Yes. It's not a diagnostic tool. It's a "Hey 5 out of 7 people wearing red shirts die in star trek. You're wearing a red shirt, you've got good odds you might die"
Any test can be wrong (Score:2)
Any diagnostic test can be wrong, and the public and medical community is OK with that.
The problem isn't the test, it's that there's no way to verify that the recipient of the results has any idea what the results mean. If a human being is involved, at least you can pretend that someone attempted to make sure the person in question understood the results.
Personally, I think 23 and me is fine as it was. OTOH, the FDA has to deal with "the public", who is invariably stupid.
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What about those drug tests for worried parents? How do we verify that parents understand that it's just a screening test? How do we verify that they know a positive for 'opium' could mean the kid ate a poppy seed bagel?
We don't, and the FDA decided that was OK.
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Trust, but verify.
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A high level of confidence of a correlation between an SNP and a condition means that two independent genetic studies have produced the same results AND members of the site who have agreed to allow their data to be used for research purposes (not all do) show the same correlation.
Ok, I wouldn't do it that way, I would indicate reliability as a percentage asymptotic to 100% (you can never be certain) where their high confidence would be somewhere around 50%. But it's a good indication of reliability. Most as
Re:Upsetting the Apple Cart (Score:4, Insightful)
The FDA has a point, though. If the test isn't accurate and gives false negatives or isn't clear about what the results really mean, it can lure people into overconfidence and that can be dangerous if they really are at risk for one of the diseases.
Granted, they probably wouldn't have known about these conditions in the first place, but if, as an example, the rest of their family is known for heart disease due to a genetic defect and they get a false negative, they might be overconfident in their chances for heart disease, leading to possible death because they didn't go to a doctor to get checked out.
Unlisted subtext (Score:2, Insightful)
The FDA states that false positives & false negatives are a major part of the reason that they are outlawing direct sales of these tests to consumers. Because a false positive on the breast cancer gene could lead to "prophylactic surgery, chemoprevention, intensive screening, or other morbidity-inducing actions". Yeah, because Physicians using the existing tests never have false positives & even were there to be one, malpractice suits always punish doctors guilty of errors of interpretation...
Becaus
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The thing is, doctors using these tests know and understand the possible erroneous results, how to screen for them and how to confirm them. I've rarely had a doctor prescribe treatment for a complex condition based on the results of just one test, there's usually two or three additional tests to confirm the results. Negative results are checked against symptoms, and if the symptoms clearly contradict the test results then additional tests are run to find out why. This isn't what happens with 23AndMe's tests
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There is most likely a corporate play in action here but I can see if the test in some way makes someone who can't afford medical testing/treatment off themselves because they know how terrible X disease can be then it's probably worth review. Or the inverse, someone not treating a very serious issue because the test came back ok (which is probably more likely).
Just look how many people show up at the doctor because they have convinced themselves their (low blood sugar) symptoms are 100% a brain tumor acco
FDA is doing you a favor (Score:3, Informative)
Turning over your DNA to Google is just plain stupid. Believing you have some semblance of privacy with them is even more stupid.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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But now I have a backup in case I die...
Medical claims (Score:5, Informative)
The problem is that 23andMe started making medical claims. As the FDA says, "your company's website at www.23andme.com/health ... markets the PGS for providing "health reports on 254 diseases and conditions," including categories such as "carrier status," "health risks," and "drug response," and specifically as a "first step in prevention" that enables users to "take steps toward mitigating serious diseases" such as diabetes, coronary heart disease, and breast cancer." Those are health claims. Those have to be clinically tested.
The history of their web site shows the health claims becoming more blatant over time.
Their advertising thus shows a progression from marketing to the technically curious to marketing to parents worried about their kids. That's what properly concerns the FDA.
Open source genome sequencing (Score:5, Interesting)
At the rate things are going it is likely to soon become cost effective to sequence everything for what 23andMe is charging now and simply hand customers a DVD with their fully sequenced DNA.
When that happens the cat is out of the bag all you need is software to do analysis for any and all aliments you want using nothing more than software which can be downloaded and used freely by anyone. Software no government is going to have much luck restricting people from getting their hands on it.
I am all for FDA regulations but they need to evolve or they will find themselves on the loosing end of a war they cannot win (See also drugs, smokes and alcohol)
A couple of suggestions:
1. Carve a space in regulatory regime allowing for speculative technologies provided any test outcomes must be validated by an FDA approved method before actionable decisions are made by a doctor. e.g. what is most likely to happen currently anyway as a result of any 23andMe diagnosis.
2. Setup a scoring framework and information system allowing people to get statistical information on the accuracy of tests as results are confirmed so they can make up their own minds whether tests are worth their time. Enabling the market to drive accuracy is a win for everyone.
The real problem is not the tests but the users (Score:2)
The real problem is that you people who buy these tests will incorrectly interpret what they say.
DNA is really only about 99.5 percent correct using PCR, for one thing.
Carrying a risk allele that is triggered by environmental conditions or requires other actions to trigger is another.
But the worst thing is you all incorrectly ascertain risk.
You overreact, and when you overreact, in medical studies without effective genetic counseling, and even in some of those cases, you almost always do the exact wrong thi
Sounds like 23andMe gave the FDA the finger (Score:5, Informative)
If even half of the FDA's letter is correct (and I see no reason to doubt it), they've been bending over backwards to work with 23andMe for years. The company made a deliberate decision to both ignore the regulators and (more damningly) fail to study the effectiveness of their own product, and now they're paying for it. Here's the relevant section of the letter [fda.gov]:
Reading this, I get the impression that 23andMe doesn't particularly care about the reliability of their tests as long as the money keeps rolling in. I don't see how 23andMe or its customers can determine the reliability without studies that 23andMe is refusing to do. The fuss is probably just because this is a new company with a new technology. If Pfizer or GSK were acting like this nobody would think twice about the FDA busting them.
Ironic Google Advertising. (Score:2)
I don't load plugins here at work, and I choose not to disable advertising here on Slashdot, so today I got this deliciously ironic gem while browsing this article:
http://superb-owl.com/images/mythosaz/23andmeirony.jpg [superb-owl.com]
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You can market all you want to the Bahama market then. Marketing related to health in the U.S. is faced with certain proscriptions.
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I think the black market potential of low-cost DNA kits can't really hold out where there are other legal DNA tests available.
Re:Change your place of business (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you have any idea how many things that are technically not legal to sell here that get through?
Have you ever bought "kinder joy" or any of the other similar chocolate candies that contain a plastic egg inside the chocolate? My wife enjoys them, so I get them for her when I see them. I know many shops I can buy them at, all over the area....yet, they are not legal products for sale in the US due to.... FDA regulations.
Hell, people have been buying mail order pot seeds and drugs and....you think customs is going to be a barrier to this?
So what exactly is so special here that means this time is going to be different?
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how is it not in their jurisdiction?
its a company performing a health and medical test. of course they should have research behind their you will get cancer promises
otherwise they need to put for entertainment purposes only
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Informative)
Regulating this seems reasonable to me, as does the logic in the FDA letter...
"Some of the uses for which PGS is intended are particularly concerning, such as assessments for BRCA-related genetic risk and drug responses (e.g., warfarin sensitivity, clopidogrel response, and 5-fluorouracil toxicity) because of the potential health consequences that could result from false positive or false negative assessments for high-risk indications such as these. For instance, if the BRCA-related risk assessment for breast or ovarian cancer reports a false positive, it could lead a patient to undergo prophylactic surgery, chemoprevention, intensive screening, or other morbidity-inducing actions, while a false negative could result in a failure to recognize an actual risk that may exist. Assessments for drug responses carry the risks that patients relying on such tests may begin to self-manage their treatments through dose changes or even abandon certain therapies depending on the outcome of the assessment. For example, false genotype results for your warfarin drug response test could have significant unreasonable risk of illness, injury, or death to the patient due to thrombosis or bleeding events that occur from treatment with a drug at a dose that does not provide the appropriately calibrated anticoagulant effect. These risks are typically mitigated by International Normalized Ratio (INR) management under a physician’s care. The risk of serious injury or death is known to be high when patients are either non-compliant or not properly dosed; combined with the risk that a direct-to-consumer test result may be used by a patient to self-manage, serious concerns are raised if test results are not adequately understood by patients or if incorrect test results are reported."
Fuck these government pricks (Score:2, Insightful)
Assessments for drug responses carry the risks that patients relying on such tests may begin to self-manage their treatments through dose changes or even abandon certain therapies depending on the outcome of the assessment
In other words, the FDA wants to be the sole provider and arbiter of this information. The scientists are 23andme are too fucking stupid to possibly get anything right unless they have the FDA bureaucrats looking over their shoulder.
I am a 23andme member and my genetic test showed that I am sensitive to warfarin. That's something I never knew before. If I ever get into a situation where that drug is used, having informed the doctor of this potential problem just might have saved my life. There is no possibi
Re:Fuck these government pricks (Score:5, Insightful)
my genetic test showed that I am sensitive to warfarin. That's something I never knew before. If I ever get into a situation where that drug is used, having informed the doctor of this potential problem just might have saved my life. There is no possibility that this information could result in any harm, because if the doctor gives a lower than normal dose and it's not effective, he can simply give more.
Weird that you think there can be no ill-effects from under-prescribing something intended to save your life. Unless you're gunning for a stroke/heart attack, that is.
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I don't see how the doctor being aware of a potential need for extra caution is anything but a good thing. If the doctor goes off the deep end and treats it as an absolute contraindication, that would be a problem, but not with the test.
Re:Fuck these government pricks (Score:5, Insightful)
Being aware of false information can have a negative impact, in the same way that bogus leads can hinder a police investigation.
That said, I think the FDA should be allowed to put their stamp of approval on things, but they shouldn't be allowed to prevent people from deciding what medical tests and procedures they do to themselves.
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I agree.
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I am a 23andme member and my genetic test showed that I am sensitive to warfarin. That's something I never knew before. If I ever get into a situation where that drug is used, having informed the doctor of this potential problem just might have saved my life. There is no possibility that this information could result in any harm, because if the doctor gives a lower than normal dose and it's not effective, he can simply give more.
What if the test is incorrect? You claim that there's no risk because the doctor can just titrate the dosage up, but if you have a time sensitive condition then the extra time required to adjust the dosage up could result in irreparable harm to your health. E.g. you get a stroke or thrombosis while the dosage is being adjusted.
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Do not make medical decisions about which drug to take by yourself, it's a bad idea.
That's a horrible stance. Get as much information as you can from whatever "experts" you can consult. But the decision about what to put in your body should be entirely and solely your own.
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How do you know that 23andme isn't simply making these results up with no scientific basis whatsoever for their claims?
Re:Fuck these government pricks (Score:5, Insightful)
Assessments for drug responses carry the risks that patients relying on such tests may begin to self-manage their treatments through dose changes or even abandon certain therapies depending on the outcome of the assessment
I am a 23andme member and my genetic test showed that I am sensitive to warfarin. That's something I never knew before. If I ever get into a situation where that drug is used, having informed the doctor of this potential problem just might have saved my life. There is no possibility that this information could result in any harm, because if the doctor gives a lower than normal dose and it's not effective, he can simply give more.
First, it's not that the FDA wants a monopoly on genetic tests. Their interest is in the safety and education of the populous (queue conspiracy theorists). They focus on making sure the public is getting accurate, validated information on treatments/drugs that do only what they advertise.
Second, you are putting your trust into something that may or may not be peer-reviewed and ensured to be accurate. Just because your genetic makeup says you may have a sensitivity doesn't mean you actually do. Would you really risk not having a surgery if you discovered through a mail-order cheek swab that you "may be sensitive" to penicillin?
Third, sensitivities and allergens are certainly not something to be played with. The difference between mild rash to anaphylactic shock can be pretty small for some people and some allergens. I know people that are resistant to the standard anasthesias, and in some cases the only way to get them numb is to get dangerously close to an LD50 injection (sometimes an alternative doesn't work or is not available).
I'm not belittling the information that you received from them or that it may have been useful to you. What the FDA is doing is making sure that the claim of someones sensitivity to something is accurate and informative for that individual. Too many people out there will find out they are sensitive to wheat, then go out of their way to make sure not only do they not eat wheat, but they purge their houses of wheat, refuse to touch flour or wheat products, then start some non-profit organization to start feeding fear to the populous that wheat is a poison that must be purged.
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The FDA isn't entirely free from distorting incentives. Suppose you're the FDA boss. Do you want some scandal about some guy dying due to a false test? Of course not. Simpler just to ban it. But what if the test is sound? Well, nobody will know that some other dude died due to not being diagnosed because the test wasn't administered.
It would have made more sense to make sure consumers understood that the FDA had not yet finished it's product approval, while letting them continue. People can decide for thems
Expect this chain to be modded offtopic (Score:2)
And correctly done at that. This would be better fodder for it's own Ask Slashdot.
Fork and Exec (Score:3)
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Interesting)
If doctors were actually using these mail-order tests to make medical decisions, that would be a concern.
I don't think it's realistic to expect that anybody would for example get a double mastectomy/ovarectomy on the basis of this test. No licensed doctor in the US would operate on a woman on that basis.
(In fact, a doctor in Australia wrote an article about that in the New England Journal of Medicine. A woman had gone to a "free screening" at a "health fair" and the "alternative medicine practitioner" told her that she had cancer, and sold her a few thousand dollars worth of "alternative medicines" to treat it. This woman went to this real doctor, an oncologist, demanding to be treated for cancer. The oncologist kept telling her, "but you don't have cancer!")
Similarly, I can't follow the FDA's argument that this test could affect a patient's use of warfarin (although I give them credit for trying to make a case).
The FDA seems to give a free hand to companies selling some dubious tests http://www.hairanalysiskit.com/glink/1a.htm?gclid=COTshpbjgLsCFQbNOgodGUMAbQ [hairanalysiskit.com] so there are some legitimate questions.
Regulators protecting us from dangerous health fraud? Or jack-booted thugs restricting our freedom? You decide.
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You're probably right, no doctor would perform a mastectomy on the basis of the test. On the other hand, what if the test said you did not have the gene for breast cancer, when in fact you do? Are you and your doctor going to trust that result? If you do, you are no better off than you were before you took the test (in fact, you may be worse off if you forgo other testing). If you don't trust the result, then what have you done besides waste $99? And that is exactly what the FDA is trying to prevent -
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No doctor would make a decision on the basis of this test.
The main benefit of BRCA testing is that some women have breast cancer in their family. BRCA has such a high likelihood of developing into breast and ovarian cancer at a relatively young age that many women decide that they'd rather have a bilateral mastectomy and ovarectomy first and (probably) escape that risk. But if they don't have the relative's gene, then they don't have that risk of breast or ovarian cancer, so they don't have to worry about i
bullshit (Score:3)
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Show that the level of false positives/negatives is higher with genetic testing than with conventional testing, and you might have a point.
I think you have that backwards. It is up to the company performing the tests to demonstate what the false positive/negative rates are. That is, in fact, what the FDA wants them to do.
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Re:Democracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is it a health or medical test? Or are they just an information provider? I mean they are not telling me if I have diabetes or heart disease – Just that my genes mark me at a greater risk to get those diseases – in combination with lifestyle and environmental factors.
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Which is just the same as carrying a BRCA mutation that increases your likelihood of breast cancer. Yet almost every medical authority would agree you should only get BRCA testing done alongside counseling from an appropriately trained genetic counselor.
Are members of the public equipped to interpret a 55% or greater chance of their child developing Alzheimer's Disease? [fastcompany.com]
It's not about withholding the test. It's about making sure the test results are accurate, that the recipient understands what the test may
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Which is why you want test results on things like this handed over by an expert, not an email.
There are some areas where government regulation is appropriate. This is one of them.
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It definitely isn't a food or medicine. I don't think this is a health test (phenotype versus genotype) unless you think that genes are unhealthy. (I recall some fascists once thought like that.) It is arguably a medical test -- but so is measuring weight, BP, temperature, pulse, and examining an individual for albinism, eye color, and gender. I guess all companies who state, "You have high BP and you are male; you are at higher risk of cardiovascular disease" and back it up with research should be shut
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There is research behind it. It's just not research that the FDA likes. For example, the FDA is worried that people receiving positive DNA tests are going to run out to demand additional tests from their doctors. Those tests may well make sense from an individual point of view, but the FDA doesn't like them because they don't make sense in an a
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
They being 23andMe. If they market it as a diagnostic service then they are providing a medical test regulated by the FDA.
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Is a bathroom scale a diagnostic device?
Because that's what 23andMe is doing. They're making something that was once part of the expensive and costly medical world and bringing to the masses. They're turning genetic testing into the equivalent of a fancy bathroom scale.
I for one think their service is amazing, particularly because it costs $99. I'm also under no delusion that it's not particularly valuable regarding my health. Part of that is because I have several molecular and genetic biologists friends,
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This is what regulatory agencies do. They 'decide' if the product or service or what not falls under their jurisdiction. They are typically (and in this case, the FDA specifically) given legal powers to compel companies to follow rules and regulations.
Of course, the companies are not without recourse. There are detailed rules on how the regulations are enforced (go ahead, read them, that should keep you occupied for some time, be sure to stock up on adequate quantities of Doritos and Diet Dr. Pepper). T
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
So a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats decided whether same un-elected bureaucrats had the power to regulate a product or service? Mind you, I'm not questioning whether this is a good product or not-- just whether the FDA should be deciding what's in its jurisdiction. Where are the progressives clamoring for "checks and balances"?
I think you have a badly misguided understanding of how government in the US operates... and was explicitly designed.
There's a reason the "founding fathers" intended that your voice carried no weight at the national level -- or even largely at the state level. The "public" doesn't have the knowledge to have their opinions really matter on most topics. The US form of government was explicitly set up so that you'd elect local officials -- on the basis of local matters that you, presumably, have some understanding of -- up to the level of Governor of your state or commonwealth, but beyond that *those* officials voted on national matters.
And its a DAMN good thing that the dimwit "will of the masses" is not involved in the vast majority of things the government does, because the will of the masses is both ignorant and easily controlled. In fact, IMO, the majority of the problem we've got with the federal government today stems from the fact that the separation between the will of the people and the federal government has eroded over time. Instead of good people being elected, the slime balls who can most effectively sway the opinion of the ignorant masses gets elected -- and then has to spend their time playing politics to keep that position.
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And its a DAMN good thing that the dimwit "will of the masses" is not involved in the vast majority of things the government does, because the will of the masses is both ignorant and easily controlled. In fact, IMO, the majority of the problem we've got with the federal government today stems from the fact that the separation between the will of the people and the federal government has eroded over time. Instead of good people being elected, the slime balls who can most effectively sway the opinion of the ignorant masses gets elected -- and then has to spend their time playing politics to keep that position.
So the only problem with democracy is that the people are allowed to vote. Take that away and you can accomplish anything -- even making the trains run on time.
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Not what he said at all. Just that it was founded as a representative republic, not a democracy. You choose people you trust for a term to collectively make decisions rather than voting on every issue. In kind, of course, the national level government didn't have anywhere near the power it does today, so it wasn't as big a sacrifice.
Take California's ballot initiative system. Raising taxes will always be unpopular, and cutting services will be unpopular and both fail as individual measures. And yet, you nee
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The Founding Fathers never imagined or desired a federal government that regulates every aspect of our lives and runs 25% of the economy. They certainly did not imagine or want anything like the FDA, DEA, or other such institutions. The federal government is supposed to defen
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The "public" doesn't have the knowledge to have their opinions really matter on most topics.
Nor do our representatives. They get briefed on important issues by lobbyists who care for nothing but their own self interest. They exchange their time for money, so that the only policies they are even able to contemplate are those that favor the extremely wealthy. If someone did have a clue, those monied interests would not support his candidacy, because they could not control him.
its a DAMN good thing that th
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I figure that a product which makes claims about its ability to predict (note that they won't say diagnose) your potential for developing certain diseases later in life should fall under the FDA's purview. I've been interested in 23andme for a long time. The first time I heard about them, the test and resulting reports ran something like $500. I added it to my "wish list" way back then and nobody bit. It's apparently down to the $99 mark now and is being marketed on television in time for the holiday season
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Except they HAVEN't done anything about the boner pills. While less frequent, I still see the commercials pop up from time to time, including the old Enzyte commercials.
Should Tarot cards be regulated by the FDA? What of crystal balls?
I haven't seen any commercials for 23 and me.
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So a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats decided whether same un-elected bureaucrats had the power to regulate a product or service? Mind you, I'm not questioning whether this is a good product or not-- just whether the FDA should be deciding what's in its jurisdiction. Where are the progressives clamoring for "checks and balances"?
The FDA bears the brunt of all public outrage of anything even tangentially related to medicine. They are bureaucrats who want to avoid responsibility at any cost. The FDA also bears none of the costs of testing new products.
What outcome did you expect?
A different model might take the utility of public safety into account. Instead of "safety at any cost", it might be "more good than harm".
The current diagnosis model is probabilistic fitting, where a self-confessed list of symptoms is matched against a list
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
The FDA bears the brunt of all public outrage of anything even tangentially related to medicine. They are bureaucrats who want to avoid responsibility at any cost. The FDA also bears none of the costs of testing new products.
What outcome did you expect?
A different model might take the utility of public safety into account. Instead of "safety at any cost", it might be "more good than harm".
That's not true. I've read the FDA regulations, and I've read transcripts of FDA hearings, which are now online. They have to weigh the benefits of the new drugs against the dangers. They have long debates in the hearings over the benefits and the potential harm. And some of the people on the panel are sympathetic to the industry. It's a difficult balance http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/18/us-ariad-cancer-idUSBRE99H0BP20131018 [reuters.com]
There were lots of drugs, like erythropoetin, that the drug companies over-promoted and made lots of money on, even though they were killing people. Their excuse was, "We didn't get a statistical signal." Every time a pro-business administration takes over, the FDA loosens up its regulations, and the bodies start dropping, so they tighten up the regulations again.
The FDA is not allowed to take the financial cost of the new drugs into account. That's not in their legal mandate.
A brief history of the FDA (Score:2)
So a bunch of un-elected bureaucrats decided whether same un-elected bureaucrats had the power to regulate a product or service?
Science based legislation is enforced through science based administrative law and procedures.
The history of the FDA can be traced to the latter part of the 19th century and the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Division of Chemistry. Under Harvey Washington Wiley, appointed chief chemist in 1883, the Division began conducting research into the adulteration and misbranding of food and drugs on the American market. Wiley's advocacy came at a time when the public had become aroused to hazards in the marketplace by muckraking journalists like Upton Sinclair, and became part of a general trend for increased federal regulations in matters pertinent to public safety during the Progressive Era.
The 1902 Biologics Control Act was put in place after diphtheria antitoxin was collected from a horse named Jim who contracted tetanus, resulting in several deaths.
In June 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt signed into law the Food and Drug Act, also known as the "Wiley Act" after its chief advocate.] The Act prohibited, under penalty of seizure of goods, the interstate transport of food that had been "adulterated". The act applied similar penalties to the interstate marketing of "adulterated" drugs, in which the "standard of strength, quality, or purity" of the active ingredient was not either stated clearly on the label or listed in the United States Pharmacopoeia or the National Formulary.
The responsibility for examining food and drugs for such "adulteration" or "misbranding" was given to Wiley's USDA Bureau of Chemistry. Wiley used these new regulatory powers to pursue an aggressive campaign against the manufacturers of foods with chemical additives, but the Chemistry Bureau's authority was soon checked by judicial decisions, which narrowly defined the bureau's powers and set high standards for proof of fraudulent intent.
In 1927, the Bureau of Chemistry's regulatory powers were reorganized under a new USDA body, the Food, Drug, and Insecticide organization. This name was shortened to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) three years later.
By the 1930s, muckraking journalists, consumer protection organizations, and federal regulators began mounting a campaign for stronger regulatory authority by publicizing a list of injurious products that had been ruled permissible under the 1906 law, including radioactive beverages, the mascara Lash lure, which caused blindness, and worthless "cures" for diabetes and tuberculosis.
The resulting proposed law was unable to get through the Congress of the United States for five years, but was rapidly enacted into law following the public outcry over the 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide tragedy, in which over 100 people died after using a drug formulated with a toxic, untested solvent.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed the new Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FD&C Act) into law on June 24, 1938. The new law significantly increased federal regulatory authority over drugs by mandating a pre-market review of the safety of all new drugs, as well as banning false therapeutic claims in drug labeling without requiring that the FDA prove fraudulent intent. Soon after passage of the 1938 Act, the FDA began to designate certain drugs as safe for use only under the supervision of a medical professional, and the category of "prescription-only" drugs was securely codified into law by the 1951 Durham-Humphrey Amendment.
Food and Drug Administration [wikipedia.org]
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So if they'd like to check that the cheek swabs aren't toxic, that would be within their mandate.
Re: Democracy? (Score:2)
Its not a democracy, it's a republic. If, we, the people, don't like what they are doing we simply need to elect people who will change the law. The check on the fda, is congess and the courts. In this case, I think it's actually good policy.
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The FDA jurisdiction over medical tests (as opposed to therapeutic drugs) is interesting.
I once researched this. The manufacturer has to give the FDA enough information that the FDA has to certify that tests used for medical purposes are accurate.
Question: Exactly what do they accurately measure?
Take this test, for example: http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/at-home-drug-test,-marijuana/ID=prod375983-product [walgreens.com]
Is it enough to measure the presence of marijuana (with 99.9% accuracy)?*
Or is the medical question whe
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Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
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Just under what legal theory before the FDA was poisoning people a legitimate business ?
And just what stops people from selling something similar as a nutritional supplement ?
If you don't recall
http://www.nemsn.org/Articles/summary_tryptophan%20Fagan.htm [nemsn.org]
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Present and accounted for! The FDA has been on a power binge for far too long, expanding their domain at every opportunity and no excuse too thin. meanwhile they have been neglecting the core of their charter. They should be focusing on proper regulation of drugs (like making sure people don't get fungus injected into their spines) and other things that actually get put in to people.
Really, their regulatory authority should end with the swab.
As for progressives with any actual political clout, good question
The FDA is part of the executive branch (Score:2)
So the party that currently is in control of the executive branch would be to blame here.
Re:Democracy? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is why we can't have "Affordable" care.
This company provides a valuable service to their customers at a very inexpensive price.
Now that the FDA is involved, its likely 23 and me is done. The companies that run through their regulatory gauntlet will likely offer their services for prices that are an order of magnitude larger than 23 and me did.
It is literally the price of regulation. We're not really paying for health care. We're paying for this regulation and that regulation and this insurance rule and that restriction and the doctor's insurance and the clinic's insurance, and that administrator's porsche (because what good is an administrator that isn't payed the big bucks), and this drug company's kickbacks that lead to the regulatory hurdles and that companies kickback's to local politicians to keep new competitor clinics from opening.
No wonder health care costs a fortune. Pretty soon we'll be paying everyone EXCEPT the Doctors!!
Re:Democracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
Pregnancy tests are also regulated as medical devices. They cost $5.
23andMe can grow up and have their work validated clinically. Or they can find an industry where accuracy is not regulated.
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I think the wording of the law is "diagnose or treat."
Informing someone of a predisposition to a disease may not fall under that authority.
I'm glad that Sergy Brinn's ex-wife has enough money to take it to court to get a fully-argued resolution.
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A doctor does more than just prescribe drugs, they also diagnose illnesses. People could die from a misdiagnoses.
If I tell you that you have prostate cancer and you have your prostate removed and then you find out I was wrong, wouldn't you be a bit upset?
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Perhaps. But you miss his point.
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Was his point that the FDA should be called the FDA and everything else that involves medicine?
This is in their jurisdiction, just because the name is the Food and Drug Administration, that doesn't mean that they only handle Food and Drugs.
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Wow, so if you got the test results back and it said you had dick cancer, would you just be hacking it off yourself or would you be going to a doctor to have your dick removed?
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How did you deduce that, considering OP said "It is not like 23 and me are going to destroy traditional medicine?"
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How did you deduce that, considering OP said "It is not like 23 and me are going to destroy traditional medicine?"
Um, from this.
Off the top of my head the layers cut out would include: Doctors, HMOs, Lab techs, companies that distribute the tests, the companies that make the tests, and most importantly the various government departments that deal with all these people
Sounds to me like he is a very DIY kind of guy when it comes to his health. Doesn't want any of that nasty regulation getting in his way.
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You clearly don't understand what the service provides, but I'm glad that doesn't inhibit you from responding as if you do!
Using your example, they don't test you for dick cancer. They check your DNA for indicators that you might be more likely to get dick cancer. The appropriate response to the results is to keep that in mind and every so often have a doctor check to make sure you don't have dick cancer.
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What I understood from reading his comment was that he wanted to be very DIY when it came to his healthcare.
Yes, the service only diagnoses problems, but considering he was talking about removing doctors and everyone else with an education from his medical care I wanted to know how far he was willing to go.
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No, it's not because they are cutting out layers of the traditional health network. It's because the service falls into a category that they are supposed to regulate. You can argue that 1) The categorization is over broad or unreliable or has other issues 2) The FDA SHOULD NOT do these sorts of things (in which case you can lobby your congresscritters to de enable the FDA's jurisdiction over such tests or 3) the FDA is being over harsh / demanding of 23&me compared to other companies with similar serv
Troll Food (Score:2)
The original article, which is talking about the FDA pulling the plug on a medical service due to its operator not addressing some red tape with respect to safety standards, is a good illustration of the interventionist form of "statism". Subsidized health care doesn't necessarily dictate what the medical industry can do in the same way, but taxing people and spending the money on certain kinds of health programs is definitely an economic intervention that pushes the medical industry in a certain direction