Dentist Wants To Clone John Lennon Using DNA Extracted From Lennon's Tooth 224
dryriver writes "People fantasizing about a Beatles comeback tour might yet see their dream come true, all thanks to Dr. Michael Zuk. This dentist is the proud owner of one of John Lennon's teeth, and hopes to use it to clone the musician. By the looks of it, Dr. Michael Zuk came in possession of the tooth in 2011. At that time, he purchased the molar at an auction organized in the United Kingdom, and paid about $30,000 (€22,424) for it. According to The Inquisitr, the dentist is now working alongside scientists in the United States, who are helping him figure out a way to extract DNA from the tooth without damaging it in the process. This DNA would serve to bring back John Lennon. Apparently, Dr. Michael Zuk hopes that his project will snowball into a scientific and pop-cultural revolution. 'To potentially say I had a small part in bringing back one of Rock's greatest stars would be mind-blowing. I am nervous and excited at the possibility that we will be able to fully sequence John Lennon's DNA, very soon I hope,' the dentist reportedly commented on the importance of his work."
Imagine all the people... (Score:5, Funny)
... cloned from a little piece ... oOooo OOOO ooooOOooo...
Re:Imagine all the people... (Score:4, Funny)
I predict this dentist is just a copyright troll who's after the music royalties.
Oblig Sheldon Cooper quote (Score:5, Funny)
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Fascinating, Captain.
Dammit Jim! (Score:2)
Dammit Jim!
I'm a doctor not a DNA cloner! If you want to clone Spock, you had better find a "Genesis Planet".
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When do I laugh? I can't tell without a laugh track.
Fantasists (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like most people don't understand what cloning is. They think that they will get John Lennon, but actually they will get a baby that looks exactly like John Lennon but doesn't have his personality or memories, or any learned talents for that matter.
Re:Fantasists (Score:5, Interesting)
He also won't have the same finger prints and iris patterns and some other things like spots on the skin and I don't know what.
Re:Fantasists (Score:4, Informative)
Or perhaps even brain traits be a bit different and therefore this new person comes up with different set of capabilities. Besides different education and society will form his personality.
Eventually you will have almost similar physics but very different outcomes. Smallest differences in two systems will chain and combine during the run time and produce totally different results.
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Indeed. I have indentical twins (10yo now) and let me tell ya: They don't have the same abilities nor the same personalities, even though we did raise them approximately the same way. They won't get anywhere with this, except making a clone of JL that will obviously fail to live up to what he will be told he should be. So he will be miserable. Talk about a personality disorder ;-)
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They won't get anywhere with this, except making a clone of JL that will obviously fail to live up to what he will be told he should be. So he will be miserable.
If he's miserable, then he'd probably make a pretty good singer-songwriter. Success! Oh, wait.
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Or he'll encounter my crowd and decide to become a death metal musician, heh heh.
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Or at an early age he gets introduced to the accordian and joins the polka circuit. It could be nearly as detrimental to the music as it was when John was introduced to Yoko.
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What current biometric identification systems would fail with clones? Fingerprints are unique, irises are unique, speech traits are unique. We don't have door locks with DNA tests on them yet.
Re:Fantasists (Score:5, Informative)
The only thing they can be sure to be cloning is the body. And even that will only develop in the same way if it's used in a similar way as the original.
So the only people that should be cloned are either athletes, models and porn actors/actresses.
Re:Fantasists (Score:4, Interesting)
Porn "stars" probably should not be cloned because a lot of the value in a porn star is the novelty factor. The industry eats them up and spits them out. There's enough attractive people in the world willing to suck dick on camera for it to have next to no value.
Besides, there's no need for real bodies, within 20 years mainstream porn will probably be entirely simulation, something like Hatsune Miku. User gets to direct the action, studios will make money on the upgrades like outfits, and won't have to pay the actress except a one time scanning fee. Studios will also be able to keep "actresses" exclusive and build brand name stars like comic books.
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Besides, there's no need for real bodies, within 20 years mainstream porn will probably be entirely simulation,
I predict humanity will first inhabit a planet outside the solar system than have no need for real porn-star bodies.
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http://hentai3d.xxx [hentai3d.xxx] (Totally NSFW)
Re:Fantasists (Score:5, Insightful)
And we are not even sure of that.
There are a lot of steps between fertilized egg to a adult that we are still unraveling. We know that some genes are expressed differently deepening on the conditions within the womb – nutrition, diet, etc.
And if you want an argument that cloning would not work, look at his son Julian Lennon. He looks, sings, and plays like him. If the Beatles were ever to reunite – more likely prior to George Harrison passing, Julian should have taken the place of his father. Yet Julian albums were never his fathers. Kind of a blessing and a curse.
Nature v. Nurture (Score:4, Insightful)
However, artists draw strongly from their cultural background, that would certainly be very different so even if his musical talent is genetic his music would be very different. That's irrelevant though, it would be extremely cruel to clone an individual with such high expectations - especially one likely to be surrounded by media all his life.
Ethics of cloning (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Ethics of cloning (Score:4, Funny)
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What "happened" to Dolly? Died of a normal disease that is common to that species, and even that very flock? What does that have to do with the ethical implications of cloning?
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Dolly must have caught that virus during the cloning procedure. There's just no other way she could have become infected.
Re:Nature v. Nurture (Score:5, Insightful)
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Pre-natal environment can also have a huge effect on development. A small change in hormone levels can alter physical development, including the physiology of the brain. Just having Lennon's DNA is a nice start, but it's unlikely to produce another musician like him, no matter how hard they try to force it.
For me, that is the real crux of the ethical issue with cloning. I don't care if someone copies Lennon's DNA, but I'd consider it a form of child abuse to try to "sculpt" the baby into another great music
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Re:Nature v. Nurture (Score:5, Funny)
That'd be the most depressing job ever. A clone of someone. Pretty much a second chance to live, but with a completely clean slate. And he'd be mooching off his previous self's talent, always wondering why he couldn't ascend to the same level of recognition nor fully comprehend this figure that people expected him to be. And every song he'd ever compose would be measured against Imagine, setting him up for failure. In time, he'd grow to hate Lennon. It would start subtly, with him only agreeing to play Revolution #9 at concerts, but pretty soon he'd hatch a plan to clone Yoko Ono MY GOD SOMEONE MAKE THIS MOVIE NOW!
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> And every song he'd ever compose would be measured against Imagine.
He should make one and name it "a beowulf cluster". He'd have some niche following.
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Not with John Lennon, but there was a similar story-arc in ReGenesis.
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... doesn't have his personality or memories, or any learned talents for that matter.
Thank you, captain obvious.
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Indeed. Non-scientists routinely overvalue the influence of genetics. Identical twins can be very different in personality, for example.
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A time-displaced genetic twin of John Lennon growing up in a later century would look a lot like John, but would not be John in any meaningful sense. You could even place him with foster par
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Even though identical twins spend the first several years of their lives in much the same environment, the difference between being "the one who sleeps by the window" vs. "the one who sleeps by the door", or "the one who got nipped by the dog" vs. "the one who didn't" can lead to all sorts of personality differences.
There are even much more extreme differences caused by one single event. Take for instance Arnold Rimmer versus Ace Rimmer. One is a failed chicken soup vending machine repairman(deceased) and the other is permanently lubricated.
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We will teach him the accordion and raise him on a diet of raw chicken and oompa music.
Mwaaaa, Ha, Ha, Ha!
Re:Fantasists (Score:5, Interesting)
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Exactly. In addition to lacking personality, memories and learned talents, he's also going to be under tremendous pressure to live up to an impossible standard. Very few musicians stay as relevant as they used to be. A clone now could make Lennon-like music almost perfectly, and wouldn't be the pop culture phenomenon Lennon was because the music industry has changed. I cannot imagine circumstances in which a clone can have a healthy upbringing with no abnormal expectations.
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I cannot imagine circumstances in which a clone can have a healthy upbringing with no abnormal expectations.
You'd probably have similar troubles with any human child, but those expectations tend to get more abnormal than usual when the parents think they're bring the band together again.
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Isn't Gene Expression [wikipedia.org] equally as important as which genes you have in the first place, and isn't expression often a response to external events, so even if you were to make a perfect copy of John Lennon, the copy would be quite different? Especially as time goes on?
Or am I misunderstanding how all this works in the first place.
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Nope. He wouldn't even look exactly like John Lennon, just really close to it. Have you never met identical twins? Any that I have known I could easily tell apart after about a day of being around them.
Re:Fantasists (Score:4, Insightful)
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why not? his area of expertise is only in one facet of biology. cant expect everyone to know everything. be like refusing to use a waste water engineer who doesnt understand geological engineering.
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Its laughable that anyone would would think a clone would be just as capable as the genetic "parent". Cloned Lennon (CL) could turn out to be a carpenter who hates the Beatles, or a PHD physicist who listens to Death Metal. There is no guarantee that he will be able to fill his genetic parents shoes as what makes a person is more than just genes. Where he grew up, his parents, peers, teachers, period music, life experiences are what shaped and made John Lennon *John Lennon*. Hell he could also be born with
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It won't even look like John Lennon, though it will probably look like a brother.
There are identical twins, same DNA, same womb, same environment, who do not look identical.
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I'm not so sure about appearances being the same. Our bodies are pretty malleable through the early periods of our lives. Our regular habits have a tendency of shaping our bodies in subtle ways that add up to our overall appearance. Have you noticed that people whom grab their nose when thinking tend to have longer noses. People that wear hats often: if they place their ears outside of the hat they tend to stick out farther, if they tuck their ears in they tend to subdue towards the scalp. People that wear boots tend to have more compressed calves where people that don't more elongated. I'm by no means an expert, but it's hard to deny the impact our habits have on us.
Channeling 'ol Alexander Lysenko [wikipedia.org] are you?
Protip: You've missed the last 80 years in biology. Better luck next time.
And do what? (Score:3)
Re:And do what? (Score:5, Funny)
It would be hilarious if John Lennon II grew to become the head of the largest world banking corporation.
"Imagine there's no taxes. It's easy if you try. No crash below us. Above us only sky. Imagine all the people. Living just to pay..." - John Lennon II.
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It would be hilarious if John Lennon II grew to become the head of the largest world banking corporation.
"Imagine there's no taxes. It's easy if you try. No crash below us. Above us only sky. Imagine all the people. Living just to pay..." - John Lennon II.
You mean Pope John Lennon II ?
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It would be hilarious if John Lennon II grew to become the head of the largest world banking corporation.
If he has any innate personality that was reflected in our John Lennon, and society was constantly telling him he had to be a great musician, he'd probably do the opposite anyway.
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Even if this were possible, why should that new life be forced to play guitar for this nutcase? Maybe clone Lennon has other ambitions. Maybe work for 3 years on the moon... Clone rights people!
Amen, brother!
If he wanted gently weeping guitars he'd need George Harrison.
C'mon! Focus, people!
It's a slippery slope (Score:4, Funny)
First they clone Lennon. Then they clone Stallon. Soon enough, they've cloned Hittlor.
Re:It's a slippery slope (Score:5, Insightful)
Ad so all these folks now have much younger posthumous identical twin brothers raised in a vastly different culture. So what?
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Clone Sylvester Stallone? We can keep making new Rocky and Rambo movies forever!
Liverpudlian Park (Score:5, Funny)
Dr. Alan Grant: [finding egg shells] Oh my God. Do you know what this is? This is a Beatle egg. The pop stars are breeding.
Tim: But Grandpa said all the Beatles were men.
Dr. Alan Grant: Lady Gaga DNA.
Lex: What's that?
Dr. Alan Grant: Well, on the tour, the film said they used Lady Gaga's DNA to fill in the gene sequence gaps. They mutated the Beatle genetic code and blended it with that of a crazy bitch who dresses like a homeless person having a fit in a garbage can, but comes up with incredibly catchy melodies. Now, Lady Gaga has been known to spontaneously change sex from male to female depending on which angle she gets photographed from. Malcolm was right. Look...
[we see a trail of baby Beatle footprints]
Dr. Alan Grant: Life found a way.
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Wait, that's not Lady Gaga in the egg, that's Weird Al's head on Vlada Gorbaneva's body [youtube.com]
Just imagine... (Score:2, Funny)
Imagine reincarnation
It's easy if you try
Only one tooth is needed
No one ever needs to die...
My first thought ... (Score:3)
"Damn it, I hate Slashdot on April Fools day"...
Then I realized it was October. I think I have 4/1 PTSD.
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Dude, you're posting through a time window. Awesome!
Quick, which stocks do the best in the next month? I'll split the proceeds 50/50 when I catch up to you.
Einstein (Score:2)
Dentist and writer both fucking idiots (Score:5, Insightful)
People fantasizing about a Beatles comeback tour might yet see their dream come true
Only if they're morons and don't understand that cloning isn't miraculous resurrection of an individual.
there is no reason why the same technological advances could not be used to resurrect rock legends.
*facepalm*
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It's not even as if John Lennon is the only dead Beatle.
George Harrison died in 2001 and Paul McCartney died (pretty badly) during the opening ceremony of of the 2012 Olympics.
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I think you seriously underestimate just how much people don't understand cloning.
You're not getting Duncan Idaho here, you're getting some poor schmuck who is forever going to be pestered and annoyed by the comparison to John Lennon. Or he'll figure out he can make money off it, and you'll see the most cynical, jaded bastard imaginable -- "fine, I'll wear the glasses and do the accent, just give me my a
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You're not getting Duncan Idaho here
He was a ghola and you know it. Totally different ;)
you'll see the most cynical, jaded bastard imaginable -- "fine, I'll wear the glasses and do the accent, just give me my appearance fee".
That [wikipedia.org] has already been done [wikipedia.org] ;)
Coo Coo Ca Choo (Score:2)
He is the egg man.
Dentist is deluded (Score:2)
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To obtain a complete sequence suitable for cloning you would need a DNA sample that was obtained from living tissue and either processed immediately or suitably frozen in the interim. DNA starts to degrade pretty quickly.
Not true. DNA has been estimated to have a approximate half life of 521 years. John hasn't been dead very long.
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Calendar (Score:2)
Get one! This is not April 1st!
The real question is... (Score:2)
Naw, they didn't use a human egg for the clone.. (Score:2)
I'll get me coat.
.
Why announce it (Score:2)
I mean society is fundamentally stupid so the moment you announce this it's instant controversy.
Just do it, and in 20 years when a new John Lennon emerges in the music scene you can tell people to shut the fuck up and enjoy the music.
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To illustrate how Dentists are NOT scientists.... tooth mechanics who get respect.
Wrong one (Score:2)
Wouldn't cloning Lenin be more interesting?
Tupac (Score:2)
All of the obvious bad science aside... (Score:2)
There simply aren't enough drugs around to re-create the Beatles "talent" these days.
Clone Lennon's first cover song (Score:2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d-aWMQuoS4 [youtube.com] :P
And what will he get from it? (Score:2)
I mean, look at the difference in interests and abilities of millions of clones, er, twins, triplets, etc. And the clone won't, of course, have even *vaguely* the same background - parentage, location and environment growing up, friends, etc.
If he does it, I see a "great" career... as a John Lennon imitator.
mark
Surrogate (Score:2)
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...revive Jesus, assuming we can ever find any DNA we presume to be his)
The Turin Shroud is full of it.
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The Turin Shroud is full of it.
Interesting turn of phrase.
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and this would be an extreme version of Twin Syndrome (you could maybe possibly copy the physical body but not the "Spirit" portions)
The Value of The Holy BedSheet is not the artifact but the Faith focused on it.
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I believe that the use of someone's DNA for any purpose in the UK requires informed consent, as with other medical procedures. For example it was recently established that if individual's gametes are used in IVF, that person's consent is needed before implantation can take place, even if they consented to the earlier stages. (The case involved a couple who underwent IVF but later divorced, and the fate of the embryos that were kept in storage after the original procedure. Really tragic for all involved.) In
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Worked with Kahless.
Re: Live a little (Score:2)
Jesus did exist; of course he was not as described. He was just a man, and a con man at that.
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Obligatory C.S. Lewis reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma [wikipedia.org]
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Holy wars in this case are not exaggerations, what happens if he has the same symptoms as where associated with his "twin" and we can show they are epilepsy rather than just suggest from the symptoms described (as we can now).....
Nonbelievers continue to believe that He was just a philosopher/preacher who created a schism in the Jewish faith. Believers believe that God made him that way to better maintain his contact with the Holy Spirit while subjected to the distractions of a corporeal existence. Nothing much changes.
A far more interesting question is what happens when it's discovered that he was black? (Come on "hair like lamb's wool"? That's not an Aryan they're describing.)
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The clone will not necessarily have any musical talent at all. Take a look at any pair of identical twins as they grow up. They start with extreme similarities and end up completely different. As we go through adolescence we naturally seek our own identity. John Lennon sought his in his music and became an icon of his times. A clone of him would naturally seek his own identity with the same vigour and would likely choose not to play music as that would be to follow rather than to seek an individual ide
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Perhaps unsurprisingly though identical twins separated at birth often show far more similarities than those raised together. Presumably since they don't have a motivation to develop individuality in opposition to each other.
So, raised without knowledge of his ancestry little Johnny might well develop with many of the same interests and talents as Lennon. Not that he might not express them as YouTube cat videos instead. If aware of his ancestry from a young age then I see one of two things happening - ei
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You would think the Lennon estate would have copyright over the DNA
How would that be possible? You get copyright for *creative* works that *you* write. There is nothing *creative* about Lennon's DNA (it's a random recombination of other genotypes), nor is Lennon the one who caused it to exist in the first place.
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Why?
Re:DNA Copyright? (Score:5, Funny)
Why?
Just look at Slashdot. In 1998 they started a clandestine cloning program on a set of donor DNA tagged "Anonymous Coward" and fifteen years later, we still can't eradicate them.
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They could try the HuffPo Vaccine [slashdot.org] though on this crowd it may not be strong enough to cure...just contain.
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I've never met a dentist who wasn't just a third rate doctor with steady hands.
I'm not saying there aren't any - I'm saying they're very rare.
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Well it's a *little* closer than that. A clone is essentially an identical twin sibling conceived at a later date. And if there's anything identical twin studies have shown us it's that "the blank slate" is a bunch of malarkey - the similarities between identical twins separated at birth who meet decades later can be almost creepy. They named their children the same thing? How does *that* work? Of course there's plenty of differences too, so nurture is clearly playing a role as well. I believe the gen
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And if there's anything identical twin studies have shown us it's that "the blank slate" is a bunch of malarkey - the similarities between identical twins separated at birth who meet decades later can be almost creepy. They named their children the same thing? How does *that* work?
Names fall into and out of fashion, so parents of the same age having children at roughly the same time are m ore likely to name their kids something similar? Ever heard someone say "that sounds like an old person's name"? That's because certain names were popular during our grandparent's generation that are no longer popular today. Of course, I am assuming in your reference that the separated twins named their children something relatively normal and common and not something weird or essentially made up
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So the "mad scientist" stereotype has been amended with the "mad dentist"?
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Umm, yes [youtube.com].
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D) Someone who thinks the human gene pool would benefit from a bit more Lennon.
Honestly if cloning people ever becomes a "thing" I think I would be in favor of cloning many of the historical geniuses - artists, engineers, philosophers, etc. No, they won't be copies of the original, but will likely have many of the same innate aptitudes and talents. What they do with them would remain to be seen, but they would probably have more to contribute to humanity than most people. And who can argue against a littl
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Well, it would probably just be simpler to clone Lawrence Olivier a couple of times. Then we could make a movie about an evil dentist (Lawrence Olivier, 'Marathon Man') plotting to clone and re-create John Lennon (Ian Hart, already a Lennon clone in 'Backbeat' and 'The Hours and the Times'). Only one man (Lawrence Oliver, 'The Boys from Brazil') can stop him...