'Space Vikings' Spark (Unfounded) NASA Waste Inquiry 147
sciencehabit writes "For Ved Chirayath, a graduate student and amateur fashion photographer, a photo project that involved NASA researchers dressed as Vikings was just a creative way to promote space science. 'I started this project hoping maybe one day some kid will look at it and say, 'I want to work for NASA,' ' says Chirayath, a student at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, who also works nearby at NASA's Ames Research Center. He never suspected that his fanciful image would put him in the crosshairs of a government waste investigation triggered by a senior U.S. senator."
The project was funded by an outside art grant. The best part: the investigation into the non-existent waste probably cost more than the "waste" would have were it funded by NASA in the first place.
why not? (Score:2)
heck might as well get alex baldwin too...
NERRRRRDDSS!! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Robbaz here, King of the Mun (Score:1)
Who else thought of Viking Space Program? I can't be the only one.
Re: (Score:3)
I thought of Lost Vikings.
We can't have this... (Score:4, Insightful)
This money could be better used for banker bonuses like our bailout money was.
Predictable (Score:2, Troll)
Remember folks its all about Bread and Circuses. Seriously I wonder why we bother to pretend that society still exists.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember folks its all about Bread and Circuses.
I suppose that in the context of science geeks, that would be "breadboards and cyclotrons".
*Grassley* is complaining about waste? (Score:5, Informative)
"This year [2008], the government-watchdog group Citizens Against Government Waste named Grassley the fourth biggest GOP earmarker. The senator has proven himself a champion spender of other people’s money." http://spectator.org/archives/2008/06/10/chuck-grassley-king-of-pork [spectator.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Senators and House of representatives are the ultimate Government waste. I suggest we tackle waste at the root: by removing the entire Congress from the US political system. I mean, it's not like they're doing anything right now anyway.
What's that? They perform important, and things like government salaries, pensions, cadillac health care, corporate-sponsored outings to the Bahamas are just things that make government possible? I'm shocked at that news. Maybe we can come to a similar understanding for think
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
We have a witch hunt from someone who hates spending money on communist, tree-hugging garbage like space exploration, when it could be spent in his home district helping him stay elected.
Given the facts, it's actually much worse than it seems. And, if there genuinely was misuse of funds, an investigation that costs more than the origi
Re:*Grassley* is complaining about waste? (Score:5, Interesting)
They are waste. They are basically ways to buy votes. Bills should be voted on for their merits, not because if you vote "yes" you'll get a bridge in your district.
Re:*Grassley* is complaining about waste? (Score:4, Insightful)
They are waste. They are basically ways to buy votes. Bills should be voted on for their merits, not because if you vote "yes" you'll get a bridge in your district.
It really depends then on what bill the earmark is attached too. There is generally a big omnibuss spending bill. Earmarks on it are just about deciding what bridges should be built. Earmarks on federal law, wars, supreme court justices are unethical.
Waste vs Abuse (Score:2)
I'll disagree somewhat. We have constant campaigns against 'Fraud, Waste, and Abuse'. An earmark that actually results in a bridge(that will be used) being built would be Abuse, not waste.
Fraud: Selling/buying counterfeit Chinese parts rather than the real ones that will actually last through use.
Waste: Contracting construction of a building, screwing up the work document such that they end up tearing it down due to safety concerns.
Abuse: Claiming porn/alcohol/pay per view on your travel voucher.
Vikings? Really? (Score:1)
I got no beef with the financial side of this because I have no reason to doubt the claim that no taxpayer money was used.
But is the stereotypical image of a viking really the one we want to present to the rest of the universe? Do we really want to frighten them by basically saying that we are going to invade their planets, kill whatever mostly resembles males, rape whatever mostly resembles females, and burn whatever mostly resembels crops?
I for one propose that we take a more humble and peaceful tone with
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
When the vikings came to North America they didn't commit genocide... just sayin'...
Re: (Score:2)
Even if european colonists had been friendly, honest, fair and caring neighbors the native americans would have been largely wiped out by european diseases.
Wouldn't the indigenous (we won't call them "native" since they were merely the first to travel here) American peoples have killed all the European immigrants through their own diseases just the same? Aside from a handful of cases where they were sold products intentionally infected with Smallpox, your argument doesn't hold.
Re: (Score:2)
Wouldn't the indigenous (we won't call them "native" since they were merely the first to travel here) American peoples have killed all the European immigrants through their own diseases just the same?
They did. Syphilis is widely thought to have originated in the Americas, and the introduction of it to the rest of the world caused more deaths than diseases introduced to the Americas. It causes about 100,000 deaths a year now worldwide, and that is half the number of only 20 years ago.
Aside from a handfu
Re: (Score:2)
No, he is stating the fact that most of the killing of the natives took place accidentally. It is the modern revisionist who calls the unintentional killing a genocide.
Re: (Score:2)
Hunting with dogs, infecting with disease via blankets, and then a policy of the Federal Government awarding cash for killing injuns? Here's an actual letter from Col. Henrey Bouquet to Jeffrey Amherst:
P.S. I will try to inocculate the Indians by means of Blankets that may fall in their hands, taking care however not to get the disease myself. As it is pity to oppose good men against them, I wish we could make use of the Spaniard's Method, and hunt them with English Dogs. Supported by Rangers, and some Light Horse, who would I think effectively extirpate or remove that Vermine.
Accidentally. Like how belladonna berries are poisonous, and eating them accidentally will kill you, so of course if I put them in your food that's not murder.
Re: (Score:2)
" we are going to invade their planets, kill whatever mostly resembles males, rape whatever mostly resembles females, and burn whatever mostly resembels crops? "
------
And don't you think that's EXACTLY what we're going to do when we find another planet with life? The USA invaded Iraq on false pretenses, and basically shot at everyone who wasn't an American. And that's with oversight and real-time news reporting. Can you imagine the havoc we'll create when politicians and the media are 220 million light yea
Re: (Score:2)
And that's with oversight and real-time news reporting. Can you imagine the havoc we'll create when politicians and the media are 220 million light years away?
Are you kidding? Half of that havoc was because of the media coverage making soldiers want to show off and look tough, and politicians sending screwed up orders based on their personal (and highly uninformed) biases. (The other half was just because that's what "organized" militaries do. The unorganized ones are even worse.) That's okay though, any exploratory/colonial/invasion force sent out by earth will likely carry politicans and media with it to turn things into a messed up circus as well.
Re: (Score:2)
I for one propose that we take a more humble and peaceful tone with alien brethen.
There [youtube.com] you have it.
How do you know in advance? (Score:1)
Seems perfectly valid to inquire as to why NASA employees are participating in a non-work activity during working hours. Since the photographs are identified as having been taken on Friday Dec 14, 2012 and the photos appear to have been taken during the day, it's completely valid to determine whether the NASA employees took a vacation day or whether they just slipped away from the office.
Re:How do you know in advance? (Score:5, Insightful)
A little fun can boost moral and increase efficiency far more than the loss of time. You will notice that most companies with knowledge workers take time for parties, outings etc.
The real waste in large organizations isn't from spending on photos, silly movies, or conferences in nice locations. The big waste is from spending on unneeded projects, or in starting large projects that are then canceled.
IRS Star Trek Video (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:IRS Star Trek Video (Score:5, Informative)
Re:IRS Star Trek Video (Score:5, Informative)
The video was made as a training exercise for the new facilities. The studio wasn't built to do the star trek video, the star trek video was done to train people for the studio.
In other words they used the existing training budget to do a fun exercise instead of filming 70's style PSAs that would never see the light of day.
Training videos (Score:5, Insightful)
This reminds me of the CDC's Zombie preparedness memo.
Some people bitched about the 'waste of funds' and such. The CDC pointed out that from their metrics it was viewed OVER 100X as much as their normal releases, for approximately equal preparation cost. Plus, well, if you're prepared for zombies, you're prepared about as well as you can be for many natural and unnatural disasters. The advice in the release was still standard disease/disaster prep stuff.
Re:IRS Star Trek Video (Score:4, Insightful)
They paid for the video facilities to make internal videos for years to come. In training the staff to use the equipment that was purchased for training videos, they chose to do something that isn't as dry as teaching the tax code.
The programming equivalent is complaining how much that 'hello world' program cost to make because it requires a 1 grand computer to make.
Re: (Score:2)
The set didn't cost anything?
I personally didn't car about the trek videos but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking it cost nothing above what was needed.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:How do you know in advance? (Score:5, Informative)
It is like a general from the pentagon making a special flight to Okinawa to see if PFC Perkins pilfered a stapler.
The inquiry will easily cost more than the photos would have if NASA had paid for them.
Of course the senator has been called the king of pork on more than one occasion. He probably would have been fione with it as long as they had the photos developed in Iowa.
Re: (Score:2)
If I were a government employee it would be entirely appropriate for you to be concerned about whether I was using tax payer funds to post on slashdot. Since I'm not a government employee it's of no concern to you at all. Any interaction between you and my employer is en
"100 year starship" study in same category? (Score:2)
YEAH... (Score:3)
Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
Claiming that the waste investigation costs more than the loss from the waste is meaningless. In order to see if the cost is worth it, you can't compare the waste that was caught to the cost of the investigation. You have to compare the waste that there would be without any investigation, to the cost of the investigation. As investigation discourages waste, the latter number is larger than the former number.
Re:Nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
> Claiming that the waste investigation costs more
> than the loss from the waste is meaningless.
Sometimes, but not in this case. The first question should have been "What?!? Space vikings?!? Who paid for this crap? ... Oh, not us? OK then." The "investigation" should have been 1 or 2 phone calls.
Rule #1: Verify that your premise and assumptions are correct before proceeding. If you go into something thinking "This seems like a waste of tax dollars!", your first questions MUST be "Was it paid for with tax dollars?" To not do so is... wasteful.
Re: (Score:2)
Being SEEN to do something about "waste" is far more important to your bottom line at the pollbooth than is actual waste, if any. Same as nearly all legislation today -- it's all about being *perceived* by the voters as having "accomplished" something, anything, no matter what the consequences or actual costs, because THAT is what gets you RE-elected.
Re: (Score:2)
Just like I can't sit here and complain about my coworker on facebook as I type this response in
Re: (Score:3)
This is not the first time the senator has called for a wasteful waste investigation. We need to investigate his wasteful spending immediately before he wastes on waste again.
When the potential cost of the waste is small, launching an investigation over a single incident is always a waste.
Re: (Score:2)
The issue is, Having people dressing up like Vikings is probably a few hundred buck. You look at it and you see that well it can't cost that much. Sure it may have cost tax payers money. But so does having you coffee pot filled daily. Or the refrigerator to keep their lunches cool.
Now you have NASA design a replacement shuttle, give them near impossible specs, have them create a bunch of working prototypes then cancel the project because they decide space is no longer politically interesting, is much di
Re: (Score:2)
Sure it may have cost tax payers money.
It didn't.
Re: (Score:2)
If it took NASA employee time it certainly took more then a few bucks.
Total up peoples hourly rates. Adds up fast. Best argument against meetings.
Re: (Score:2)
Claiming that the waste investigation costs more than the loss from the waste is meaningless. In order to see if the cost is worth it, you can't compare the waste that was caught to the cost of the investigation. You have to compare the waste that there would be without any investigation, to the cost of the investigation. As investigation discourages waste, the latter number is larger than the former number.
it was just a hunt after the pictures had already been taken.. ..and you know what, the investigation would never have needed to be official if they had just asked where the money came from.
Re: (Score:2)
Which is impossible, since you don't have access to alternative timelines where you didn't do the investigation.
This is a non-sequiter. Even if investigation discourages waste, it does not follow that waste is reduced by more than the investigation costs.
Also, in my experience, stick-based waste discouragement l
Re: (Score:2)
Wrong,
Waste without investigation: $? (You wouldn't know if NASA spent anything on it or not or how much if they did.)
Waste from investigation: $?? Because knowing that no NASA money was spent on the unauthorized project has value in and of itself. You cannot claim the investigation is waste or that all of it is.
In light of IRS... (Score:4, Insightful)
In light of the IRS making Star Trek training videos I really don't see any problem with digging into all Government entities searching for waste. Glad they didn't find it here, but I'm also glad the checked.
Re:In light of IRS... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
You're a fool swept up in Republican lies and propaganda. That video was made while training in the use of their new video facilities and cost them next to nothing.
60,000 != Next to Nothing
Re: (Score:2)
The _video_ cost them next to nothing, the video facilities weren't built explicitly for this damned video. How we end up here arguing over a kitschy video made for peanuts while so many other places in government (defense, social security, health care) or the private sector (how about goldman sachs and metals price manipulation) are costing the public substantially I'll never know.
Re:In light of IRS... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
It should also be noted that they spent over twice that much money on speakers for a single conference.
Re:In light of IRS... (Score:5, Insightful)
Call 1: Head of the department the participants work in - "Nope, wasn't during scheduled meeting times, cost us none of our money and I'm a freakin space viking! One guy made us sound cooler than anything you guys have done since the moon missions".
Call 2: Photographer - "No, I didn't interfere with their work and it cost you nothing. I have a grant to make NASA look awesome and sound freakin badass! Space Vikings! Just in case here is the number to verify freakin vikings in freakin space money"
Call 3: Grant people - "Yes we gave photographer a grant to take pictures of space vikings, glad to see you aren't living up to your reputation as one of the biggest wasters in congress with your sensible approach to verifying the facts and not ordering a full blown investigation into the space viking thing".
Re: (Score:2)
There is a problem though if any investigation is going to cost more than any waste that could have possibly happened. Especially if said senator could have just sent a polite letter to the administrator to ask about where the funding for the photo-op came from.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
FTG (Score:1)
Wrong pond (Score:2)
If you want to go fishing for corruption, why not go look in more obvious place like where 24% of the budget gets spent? That would be a much better payoff if you want to clean up corrupt funding. Otherwise, I would file this under "because, space geeks" and stop spending money on the witch hunt.
[*] http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_actual [usgovernmentspending.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Now, that said, I think the US needs to stop being the police force of the world. It's stupid, it's wasteful, and it's not our job.
Re: (Score:2)
In the same way, a deep reform of unemployment benefits criteria, or social security, or government sponsored health care would have a ben
"Government Waste" is just an excuse (Score:1)
Grassley has to pander to his base. Verifiable facts, science, and technical achievement make them feed inadequate. He knows exactly what he is doing. Generally the places where the GOP is in control are the places where stupidity is considered a virt
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.
Have you been listening to Bobby "something called volcano-monitoring" Jindal again? Been sucking up the far right's climate denial campaign?
Why Vikings = Space? (Score:2)
FTA:
Last year, Chirayath began working at ARC, where he helps develop small, compact research satellites known as “CubeSats.” The technology, developed in part at Stanford, reminded him of Viking explorers who, from the eighth through 11th centuries, “travelled farther and saw more in much smaller ships than had been used before their time.”
Re: (Score:2)
*cough*Space Viking [wikipedia.org] published in 1962/63.
Re: (Score:2)
Shit. I had a whole collection of Astounding Science Fiction that I left behind when I moved.
Chirayath's name may have been multiply determined.
For the Republicans, NASA"s only legitimate (Score:3)
mission is to try to send a rocket to heaven and find Jesus.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh. Global warming/climate change is real. Intelligent design isn't. Teaching abstinence doesn't work. Faith in Jesus hasn't kept us from being the most gun-crazed, violent country (without a local war) on earth.
The republicans have made their policies on science quite clear for a long time. You need to watch something besides Fox "news" once in a while, and listen to someone besides Rush Limbaugh.
Most cries of government waste are red herrings (Score:2)
They violated NASA procedures (Score:4, Funny)
Clearly they have violated Standard NASA Ames Procedures [archive.org] for dealing with this sort of thing.
They failed to fill out a both the DARC-820AD -- 'Identifying a Barbarian Attack' and FF-1066AD -- 'Report of Viking Raid' forms.
Fund NASA, not NSA (Score:3)
I'm going to print myself a bumper sticker that says "Fund NASA, not NSA".
Amazing (Score:2)
A "senior US Senator" can sense waste like Yoda sensed the death of billions. The odor of PORK draws those strong in the dark side and no one is stronger in the dark side than the dysfunctional losers who run for political office in this country
Please! Take Pity On the Senator (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I had absolutely no trouble parsing the headline. It makes perfect sense.
Perhaps you did not finish high school?
Re:Most confusing headline ever (Score:5, Funny)
No problems parsing the headline. However, my twisted mental faculties imagined things much more entertaining than what eventually played out.....
Re: (Score:2)
FYI: If you check TFA, you'll find the Slashdot headline is merely a slight variation on the original, so please take it up with the folks over at Science Insider.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Most confusing headline ever (Score:5, Interesting)
*sigh*
'Space Vikings' Spark (Unfounded) NASA Waste Inquiry
{Adjectival Noun + Noun} | Verb | {(Adjective) + Adjectival Noun + Adjectival Noun + Noun}
Subject | Verb | Object
I can tell the US education system has gone to shit when I'm reduced to defending Slashdot editors' word choices by diagramming sentences for dunderheads who were allowed to sleep all the way through 8th grade.
Re:Most confusing headline ever (Score:5, Funny)
Funny thing, I didn't even have to read TFA to know it was a Republican congresscritter.
Correct response to Grassley: (in baby talk) "who's a braying ass? YOU're a braying ass, yes you are!
Re:Most confusing headline ever (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Don't fool yourself, the Republicans and small government parted ways years ago. They also parted ways with government staying out of people's lives. DHS, and the TSA weren't invented and over-funded by a Democrat (to be fair they haven't been de-funded by a Democrat either). The trillion dollar bank bailouts and the needless trillion dollar war weren't started by a Democrat either (again, also not ended by one). We did have a balanced budget under Clinton. I guessed it was a Republican because the complain
Re: (Score:1)
It's pointless to criticize if you don't offer an alternative. How about "Space Vikings Spark Unfounded Accusation of Wasteful Spending at NASA"
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The best part: the investigation into the non-existent waste probably cost more than the "waste" would have were it funded by NASA in the first place.
What kind of logic is that? Does the OP have knowledge of the future?
Doesn't have to, you can look at previous investigations and extrapolate. You'd be suprised how much 'simple' paperwork cost the government where investigations are involved. I used to be a Government contractor, seeing my taxes wasted first hand made each paycheck withholding sting a little more.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would you presume that a government investigation has documentation that exactly details the costs? More likely, the investigators were paid via salary, as is the original senator, and other overhead such as electricity and gas for travel are lumped into general budgets. Thus, while the investigation certainly had a cost, much of it is obfuscated.
Re: (Score:1)
NASA are not only used to such politics, they're the Jedi Fucking Masters of politics.
Re: (Score:2)
And they do a lot of fucking.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
My answer to that is to tell my superiors, "Too bad. Don't tell me what I can't do; tell me what the impedances are and I'll figure out how we're going to deal with them." If I have to spend a session putting boots in peoples' asses, I'll stomp all over someone's face no problem.
Sometimes shit is rough, and doing things right is uncomfortable. But I like the heat and I have two functional middle fingers to use in battle.
Re:6 offices (Score:5, Informative)
Note that all of them contain demands for detailed histories, rationales and future plans, all to be delivered with two weeks.
Maybe this grandstanding fucktard should start writing similar letters to the Secretary of Defense. I hear they get a slightly larger portion of the budget pie than NASA does.
Re: (Score:2)
Here [senate.gov] he's character-assinating the director of the Ames Research Center.
Heh, can't fool me again... I've clicked links like that on slashdot before. At least you didn't try to disguise it.
Just googled it, and it has a meaning [urbandictionary.com], apparently. You live and learn.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Was wondering when someone would post this. It's not a bad read, as long as you ignore the parts which are out of date scientifically.