Ancient Mars Ocean Found? 71
astroengine writes "With the help of rover Curiosity, we now know that ancient Mars had large quantities of liquid water flowing across its surface. However, evidence for large bodies of water — i.e. seas/oceans — has been hard to come by. But using high-resolution orbital data, Caltech scientists now think they've found a long-dry river delta that once flowed into a very large body of water. Welcome to the Aeolis Riviera — the strongest evidence yet for a Martian coastline. "This is probably one of the most convincing pieces of evidence of a delta in an unconfined region — and a delta points to the existence of a large body of water in the northern hemisphere of Mars," said Roman DiBiase, Caltech postdoctoral scholar and lead author of the paper that was published (abstract) in the Journal of Geophysical Research."
Water, or liquid. (Score:1)
Re:Water, or liquid. (Score:5, Funny)
Not all that flows is H2O. Not sure how they could determine the chemical composition of what formed these.
Yeah. But they also found blueberries. And blueberries need water.
3..
2..
1..
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If Mars used to be Class M, then sure it had roddenberries.
Re:Water, or liquid. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not all that flows is H2O. Not sure how they could determine the chemical composition of what formed these.
Well, for that matter, the delta-like feature could have been sculpted by aliens. However, it's generally safe to rule out any absurdly unlikely reason when a far more likely one is available. There aren't a lot of candidates for alternate liquids to occur in large enough quantities at that location. In fact, I'm only aware of the one candidate, unless you want to resort to bonkers-level improbabilities (the chemical equivalent of "aliens did it")...
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Perhaps they are thinking of lava flows such as we have seen on the moon.
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Alluvial deposits look nothing like lava flows.
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Agree. i was just trying to answer the earlier question which was what other than H2O produces large flows. Personally i believe it was water but the only other large flows i have seen is lava. I agree it was not lava that did this.
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There's a bunch of hydrocarbons that form liquids at the temperatures found on mars. The atmosphere still contains traces of methane.
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There's a bunch of hydrocarbons that form liquids at the temperatures found on mars.
At what pressure? This matters as much as temperature in determining the phase of a substance.
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Given the similarity of mass between the moon and Mars, probably 1/6th pressure, assuming there was an atmosphere in the first place to keep it all there, which, as we see........
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Planet mass doesn't have much to do with atmospheric pressure. Venus is around the size of Earth, yet the pressure is 90x higher on its surface.
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What ever the pressure was before the atmosphere was torn away by the sun when it lost its magnetic field, providing it used to have one.
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We send a rover to Mars. It picks up some rocks and does a few tests on them. Analysis can reveal the most likely liquids in which certain minerals will dissolve, re-crystallize and what sort of metamorphosis we are likely to find.
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Like the other poster said, not at the pressures you see on Mars, and not at normal temperatures. Ice can't even exist on the surface of Mars without sublimating away. If it occured in the past when atmospheric pressure was higher, then the temperature would have been higher from the greenhouse effect, meaning that it wouldn't be cold enough anyway.
Also, Mars has an oxidizing atmosphere, hence the red color. That isn't compatible with free hydrocarbons on the surface. That and you'd need a lot of hydrocarbo
Marvelous news (Score:3)
This is great news, not surprising, but great none the less. It's just that more evidence that Mars was a living, breathing planet, and might still be that way in some limited forms. Or perhaps not even all that limited if life on Mars never went beyond the microscopic form. But I'll get really excited and piss in my pants with giddiness if we learn that the transpermia theory has been confirmed and that life on Earth started on Mars. But that's a long, long way away.
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We escaped from Mars to earth for a simpler life after removing all evidences of technology, as we realized how it was destroying society.
Or at least that's what people WANT you to believe.
Xenu clearly used a death ray on the planet in an attempt to get rid of us once, turning it into a dust ball!
Long live Xenu! Earth is next!
Re:Marvelous news (Score:4, Interesting)
If it were up to me, I'd prefer that Martian life had no relation to life on Earth. Two results from this:
1) It will give us new information on the kinds of life that can exist (Is it carbon-based? Does it need water?). Similarities add constraints on how life must be; differences remove them.
2) It will all but prove that life is plentiful in the universe. If life independently emerged twice in the same solar system, then wherever it is possible for life to exist, it will be found.
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But I'll get really excited and piss in my pants with giddiness if we learn that the transpermia theory has been confirmed and that life on Earth started on Mars.
What will you do if it's the other way around (life on Mars started on Earth)?
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"It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles."
Hate to rag on someone's sig but there are worse places than LA that I've lived in...
If I had lived on Mars, I'd likely say something far worse towards it than anything LA could throw at me.
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Re:"we now know" or "we hypothesize" (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. Just off the top of my head:
Gypsum sand and gypsum inclusions in rock strata.
Calcium and sodium perchlorate salts
Hydrated silica clay
All three of those require not just water, but often standing pools of water. The perchlorates especially, which at least on earth, form when salt water is slowly evaporated under exposure from strong UV radiation. Gypsum is a hydrated calcium sulphate salt, and requires liquid water to crystallize.
The hydrated silica clay can from just from ambient soil moisture working its magic on feldspar minerals, but usually requies active weathering. Like, rain.
As the parent said, there is ample evidence of water having been on mars. Lots of water.
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That's the nice thing about a sample return mission like the one that's been proposed. It'll confirm your above opinion of the evidence. Something that looks like gypsum sand to a rover, may well be. But if it looks like gypsum sand in a lab on Earth, then that's a vastly more definitive piece of evidence.
That's not really necessary as your situation isn't really possible.
Crystals/chemicals/etc don't really have many options to form 'differently'. When they form differently, they aren't the same. Sure you
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Crystals/chemicals/etc don't really have many options to form 'differently'.
When you say 'differently', are you quoting someone? On Earth, we don't actually have this experience. There's a vast number of such chemicals and crystals formed under subtly different conditions and chemical composition. For gypsum, merely changing the quantity of water changes the mineral. We also can partly (not even fully) substitute other elements for calcium and sulfur to get new minerals.
For your premise, that all of those minerals formed via some process other than one that involves water, would require a huge coincidence that the rover could somehow find all of these minerals which happened to form without water even though all of our experience tells us is unlikely.
That's not my premise. We already know water exists on Mars. We see it directly in Mars's atmosphere. The polar c
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steep land masses where contentnets used to rise out of the ancient oceans?
Yes, but give them a few million years of wind erosion after things dry out and their slopes will come to resemble dry land features.
Re:"we now know" or "we hypothesize" (Score:4, Informative)
NASA Phoenix Mars Lander Confirms Frozen Water [nasa.gov]
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There are (Titan rains methane, and has large lakes of ethane), just not on Mars.
Martian atmosphere resembles a colder version of what happened to venus's atmosphere. Venus likewise lacks a strong geomagneric dynamo. Some planetary scientists speculate that this is not because venus isn't heavy enough, but because the atmosphere is so hot, that mantle convection is not viggorous enough to create the dynamo. Mars just wasn't heavy enough, or cooled too signifigantly. Not enough data is available at this time
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Re:Back to the future (Score:5, Funny)
Global warming is going to destroy the Earth's magnetic field or geodynamo? Is there anything global warming *can't* do?
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make ice cream.
Re:Back to the future (Score:5, Funny)
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Global warming is a lot like Jesus. True believers see them everywhere including things like toast, whereas normal people cannot.
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Ahem, I hope your toast Jesus reference is frivolous. We all know the only true representations of Jesus are on tortillas.
http://www.google.com/search?q=jesus+tortilla&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1CjmUby8FYm9iwLCmYGADA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1586&bih=1008 [google.com]
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Thanks Mars. Its back past gives a fair picture of the future Earth, thanks to global warming.
So you'll be riding a bicycle from now on?
Northern lowlands, result of ancient collision (Score:4, Interesting)
One would expect a large body of water there. How the Universe Works "Extreme Planets" mentions a theory of Mars
being hit by an object moving the Northern hemisphere crust to the Sorthern hemisphere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2t2VkDYOfYM#t=12m33 [youtube.com] (12:33 in, link starts there)
I would assume leaving the Northern side lower as a result.
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I would assume leaving the Northern side lower as a result.
Ah duh, rewritten and that was removed, then pasted the draft.
That's nice (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:That's nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Boots. Mars. Do it, NASA. This isn't rocket science.
No, unfortunately it's political science.
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No, I'm not kidding. It's really nice. It's the umpteemth conformation that Mars once had water. WE GET IT. MARS ONCE HAD WATER. Boots. Mars. Do it, NASA. This isn't rocket science.
Are you Cave Johnson? All you are missing is something about banging rocks together and lemons.
XKCD reference (Score:1)
Here's the obligatory XKCD [xkcd.com] reference.
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The joke wasn't even all that funny when it was new, and told by its originator.
7 centuries (or so it seems) of bastardization later, it's amazing that there are still those who think it makes them clever.
OK, so the next step? (Score:2)
Maybe a subsurface probe that drills down where we expect to find liquid water, then to tests there? Maybe just dig a deep hole and test. Hell, set off a bomb if you have to. Our best bets are under the dirt now.
Well, we know where that comes from (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, duh... (Score:1)
Sad, but it has really gotten to the 'well, duh' stage.
We get it NASA. Mars once had lots of surface water. Said water is now probably sub surface, having sunk in as the core cooled. Now go and drill some wells for oil, gas and water.
strange though (Score:2)
quit it (Score:1)
For extra points (Score:2)
Where's Helium around that delta?
mark "and is Dejah Thoris lounging by the Aeolian Riviera?"