Ancient Teeth Bacteria Record Disease Evolution 97
An anonymous reader writes "DNA preserved in calcified bacteria on the teeth of ancient human skeletons has shed light on the health consequences of the evolving diet and behavior from the Stone Age to the modern day. The ancient genetic record reveals the negative changes in oral bacteria brought about by the dietary shifts as humans became farmers, and later with the introduction of food manufacturing in the Industrial Revolution."
Re:humans (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:humans (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be interesting to study dental health across humans with various diets i.e. vegetarians, vegans, etc.
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My dad developed a vertical hairline crack in his front left tooth in his mid 40's, my own front left tooth did exactly the same thing. As for diet my 80yo dad was a war baby, a UK war baby's diet was peculiar, for example he still loves lard* sandwiches if anyone will let him have lard (Yuck!!).
In Poland they call it smalec and its absolutely delicious on bread with some sour gherkins. The best smalec has crunchy bits of pork scratchings too. Fat with embedded fat. Totally delicious.
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I think people get a little too OCD about it.
The most healthy man I've ever known ate fatback, lard, butter and scrambled pig brains like they were going out of style. He lived to be 102.
The most sickly man I've ever known ate wheat testicles, oat scrotums, tofu ice cream, and tons of herbal supplements. He's always sick. Maybe it's the oat scrotums.
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That's because the idea that fat is bad for you is bullshit. Google the Seven Countries Study that was carried out by Ancel Keys. He cherry picked the data to fit his hypothesis, rather than doing any actual science.
Re:humans (Score:4, Insightful)
I should point out that transfats (in some types of processed food) and hydrogenated fats (margarine) have been scientifically proven to be bad for you. But saturated fat hasn't.
Transfats do exist in nature, but we mostly get them from processed foods. From the wikipedia article: "They can only be made by cooking with a very high heat, at temperatures impossible in a household kitchen." So frying isn't bad for you either.
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I should point out that transfats (in some types of processed food) and hydrogenated fats (margarine) have been scientifically proven to be bad for you. But saturated fat hasn't.
You might be interested in these two videos (they're both 1.5 hours long, but really informative):
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The most healthy man I've ever known ate fatback, lard, butter and scrambled pig brains like they were going out of style. He lived to be 102.
The most sickly man I've ever known ate wheat testicles, oat scrotum, tofu ice cream, and tons of herbal supplements.
You might be interested in these two videos (they're both 1.5 hours long, but really informative):
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*lard = solidified fat from the bottom of the roasting pan
That's dripping. It still has a lot of meat flavour in it. Lard is the purified fat, never heard of anyone enjoying a sandwich of that.
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Ah well, by some definitions I am a Northern Englishman :-) My Dad is from the South though, and he too has fond memories of dripping butties. Considering the post-war diet it probably was quite a treat.
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we still like lard butties in the north (of england)
Re: humans (Score:2, Informative)
Weston A. Price already did. Check out 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration' for a first hand account of what happens when previously 'primitive' societies are introduced to refined flour and sugar.
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Re:humans (Score:5, Insightful)
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Depends on the coarse food. I've seen some people with absolutely destroyed teeth due to chewing tough sugar cane. (The sugar probably doesn't help, but by itself I don't think it accounts for incisors which are as pointed as canines).
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TFA doesn't really say anything about efficiency of oral hygiene, just that oral flora has become less diverse. I doubt eating coarse roots is more efficient than electric toothbrushes and chewing gum and all the other marvels of the modern age. If my assertion is correct and as you postulate that biodiversity is somehow affected by hygiene practices, this should have resulted in an increased biodiversity of the mouth, but that is apparently not the case (unless we are too effective these days).
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Re:humans (Score:4, Insightful)
Plants and animals generally have a lifespan long enough to procreate - then they are a waste.
Human animals are pretty well designed to live to age 30 or 40, maybe 50, then they are a waste. Teeth, bones, whatever, are just not designed to last a whole lot longer. Women show this even more than men. They spend the first ten to fifteen years growing into sexual maturity, they spend the next twenty years or so reproducing, then they face the onset of osteoporosis and a multitude of hormonal problems. Nature simply didn't design us to live forever.
Specifically, on topic, not only do we live longer today, but we don't eat the way nature intended. We put sugar in everything, for starters. Corn syrup, mushy processed foods, foods without their natural enzymes, foods with little if any fiber, foods bleached of their primary nutritional content, foods with artificial junk in them, foods filled with useless and possibly detrimental colorings - the list goes on.
Want to beat the problems we have with our teeth? Get closer to nature. Eat your meats fresh and rare. Eat your veggies raw. Don't eat processed foods. Don't eat sugars and corn syrups. DON'T SLURP ON SWEETENED AND FLAVORED DRINKS ALL DAY LONG!! Those damned drinks are probably the single leading cause of dental problems. Drink your 6 to 12 cups of water throughout the day, and MAYBE have a single flavored drink with your meals, whether that be coffee, a soda, or whatever.
In short, we've outsmarted Mother Nature, we outlive our intended lifetimes, and we fail to care for our teeth properly. It's a wonder that we are keeping our teeth for as long as we do!
And, no, I really don't think that we are going to "evolve" better teeth. We will only keep what we have, for so long as we keep outsmarting Mother Nature. If we lose our edge with technology and modern medicine, then we are going to lose our current life spans, and we'll lose our teeth even sooner.
Now - do you want to compare oral problems with other animals? Read the story of the man eating lions, in the story of 'The Spirit and The Ghost'. As I recall, the elder lion had a broken canine, which was extremely painful. Because it hurt so damned bad to bite through the tough hides of almost any animal, he resorted to killing soft skinned people. Apparently, people aren't the tastiest game available to lions, but they are among the easiest to kill. One quick chomp on a leg, and they are down, ready to be killed and consumed at leisure. An entire region was terrorized for months because of a lion's dental problems. The younger lion? I think he just followed the elder lion's lead, or something like that. Maybe he was just lazy.
Animals have dental problems, but we generally don't hear them complaining about their teeth.
Re:humans (Score:5, Interesting)
...nice guess, but RTFA and learn a bit of actual dental hygiene. What you eat isn't the problem, it's what it attracts. With the exception of extremely acidic beverages, the food we eat does not directly damage our teeth. Getting lots of calcium is certainly important for preventing osteoporosis, in teeth and elsewhere, but that's the whole story. You can eat as much sugar as you want if you're in a completely sterile environment. It won't hurt you. (Not that such a place exists.)
Every exposed surface both inside and out of the human body is its own little bacterial world. The flora in the intestines have been in the news a lot lately because it's become apparent that some diabetes and obesity cases are tightly linked to disruptions in the compositions of these communities—the wrong bacteria get in and cause trouble.
The big discovery of the story is that the bacteria in the mouth used to be a lot more diverse. Just like the intestines of the obese, agriculture has put our mouths (with very few exceptions like the bushmen and uncontacted peoples) into bad shape. It's not natural for us to even need to brush our teeth—note no other animal doing this.
I also think you've misrepresented life expectancy a little by componentizing things... as well as being a tiny bit low numerically. The wealthy in ancient Greece averaged about 70 years, without anything resembling sanitation, and the average Roman commoner made it to 45. It's true that some components stop functioning earlier, but that doesn't mean Mother Nature would disapprove of us pushing past it. Many of the changes the occur in middle age can have positive outcomes [washingtonpost.com] on the social group by encouraging the individual to focus on other aspects of life, primarily looking after the family or tribe.
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We don't "evolve" or "are designed", if increased our odds to survive and procreate, then it probably is there. But is too close in time when we developed farming to make a difference in population, and for refined sugar diet, it even coincided with our increased lifespan because other factors, so won't become an evolutionary factor unless civilization falls and then refined sugar won't matter anyway (unless we improve our own genetic code, we are in the right moment for that).
In the other hand, what can e
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Not necessarily. Being alive (and relatively fit) when your grandchildren are born might increase their chances of survival and therefore the probability of your genes being passed on to the next generations. After all you are the only backup plan in case something happens to the parents.
However, I totally agree on your views regarding the human diet. I try to eat paleo [wikipedia.org] whenever I can.
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Aristotle was contemporary with cavemen, and their ancestors? Really? I had always suspected that Aristotle was a "modern man". Geez - maybe you have a citation to offer, of your own?
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Hormonal problems in women are diet related, don't extrapolate western data(i.e., US centric) to other pops.
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=were+cavemen+human%3F [lmgtfy.com]
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Life tip for ya: don't be a whiny ape that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, you'll learn more that way.
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"Animals have dental problems, but we generally don't hear them complaining about their teeth." /.
You can speak to them! Your skills are wasted on
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But of course eating to much starch or sugar isn't helpful either.
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why do humans have more oral problems compared to other species in nature?
What evidence do you have that this is true? Wild animals with significant problems with their teeth/mouth die in short order, humans get it treated and live on.
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why do humans have more oral problems compared to other species in nature?
Could it be because we live longer than other species? By the time I had my first cavity my dog was dead.
It's not even clear that we have more oral problems than other species. My current cat has serious dental disease. And elephants, if they aren't killed by us or disease, usually die indirectly of dental deterioration; their teeth wear out, then can no longer chew, and they die of starvation. Usually around the age of 60.
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Correct; In the wild each set of teeth lasts about 10 years, because there's a lot of silica in the grasses that are an elephant's primary diet. Elephants in captivity can live longer because their diet is less abrasive to their teeth.
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Before sugar we didn't need dentures as our teeth did not rot
Nice try, Marketing! (Score:2)
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Bread. Bread is the enemy. Not salad. Good old high-density carbs. Low-density ones (sugars), aren't great either.
To me that doesn't sound much like something the fast food industry would want to encourage. Definitely more of an expensive restaurant agenda.
enemy of what? (Score:2)
Just curious, "enemy" of what? Keeping slim? Keeping healthy? Dental health? other?
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But We're Living a Lot Longer (Score:2)
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. (And we also have fluoridated water, which really works quite well.) .
Tell that to Dr Strangelove ;-)
Re:But We're Living a Lot Longer (Score:5, Interesting)
1/ Small amounts of topical fluoride have a beneficial effect on teeth
2/ Large amounts of ingested fluoride weaken both your bones and teeth.
3/ Ingested fluoride accumulates in the body, mostly in the bones. 50% of what is ingested is never excreted.
4/ There is a slight correlation between water fluoridation and dental health.
5/ The possible benfits of water fluoridation are hard to quantiry because they are swamped by the effects of fluoride toothpaste
6/ There is at least as strong a correlation between water fluoridation and hip breakage in the elderly.
7/ Both sides are pushing an agenda, everything reads like propaganda unless you read the actual journal articles.
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My take on Flouride: There is a warning on the back of toothpaste that says "If ingested, seek IMMEDIATE medical assistance." Toothpaste with out Flouride? No such warning.
Toothpaste contains a lot more fluoride then water. The acute toxicity is certainly not a problem with drinking water, so the warning on toothpaste has very little relevance to fluoridated drinking water.
Also, realize that Flouride is a byproduct of Phosphate mining
How is this at all relevant?
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It accumulates in the body so it is NOT safe in drinking water nor has it been scientifically proven to be effective in any other manner but topical.
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Also, realize that Flouride is a byproduct of Phosphate mining
How is this at all relevant?
The source of the fluoride isn't relevent, but it is an emotive anti-fluoride point.
(The amount of contaminants in the fluoride is relevent, but both sides avoid quantifying them.)
Toothpaste contains a lot more fluoride then water. The acute toxicity is certainly not a problem with drinking water, so the warning on toothpaste has very little relevance to fluoridated drinking water.
Acute toxicity is a concern with toothpaste. Cumulative toxicity is a concern with drinking fluoridated water. The pro-fluoride group conflate the two constantly.
One thing I forgot to put in the GGP list was that both sides seem to be cherry picking their data.
Personal views
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Kissability? (Score:5, Funny)
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When you was a baby, your mother passed you a good load of healthy bacterias [discovery.com] while feeding you. And not sure if were just intestinal ones.
Even later in life, kissing increases immunity and reduce allergies, probably because of that passed biodiversity. But with our generation addicted to antibacterial toothpastes and antibiotics, most that will be passed will be antibiotic/antibacterial resistant bacteries, good luck with that.
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Same reason I prefer a woman without deodarant. If you stink you aren't feeding your body properly, coffee, cigarettes, nitrates and phosphates being the big offenders.
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The New Fad (Score:1)
I shall call it the Bacteriophilic Trials of the 22nd Century.
The Missing Link ! (Score:2)
Maybe they will now find that mysterious 5th dentist that would not reccomend Trident Sugarless Gum.
"anonymous reader" = blog spammer (Score:5, Informative)
Link to the source, not some asshole plagiarising it to get ad hits.
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With a 6-digit ID, it's hard to believe you're so new here.
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Paleotrash (Score:1)
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Paleo and primal diets work. Many practitioners’ improved health is simply self-evident. So why don’t you post a pic of you and your club? I highly doubt your likely flabby body can stand up to my rock-hard paleo-carved physique, club or no club!
I don't know what's more ironic.. my joke or yours.. :) I guess we're all cavemen still.
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Paleo and primal diets work.
Any diet will "work", in as much as it forces you to pay attention to what you're eating.
Whether you're just counting calories, avoiding bread or all carbs, or trying to recreate some mythical "pre-historic" diet doesn't really matter. The important part is limiting junk food, not over-eating. Basically, pay constant attention to what you're intaking and you'll be healthier and likely to lose weight.
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all that it implies
Oh, do tell. I'm more concerned with cutting carbohydrate than being properly paleo, but the overlap is huge, so I often end up poring over paleo sites for recipes. I've lost 80 lbs/ 35 kg in the past year with no other intervention. Is it right for you? Don't know. It's sure as hell right for me.
Not directed at ferrisoxide: if you are tempted to say "just eat less", then you are not the person who needs to hear this message. The experience of those who have never had difficulty losing weight is as releva
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I actually wasn't trying to take a stab at the Paleo diet - it was just a feeble attempt at humour in the vein of responding to like with like.
The Paleo diet makes a lot of sense, and I'm glad you've had such an excellent experience with it. More power to you.
What I take umbrage at is the idea that "everything was better in the old days" kind of mentality, implied in the original article. Enough said, I'll go back to my cave now. :)
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You are of course correct that grain-eaters will outnumber and thus conquer most H-G people, but that doesn't make any statement either way about the health properties of the diets. A real whole-grain diet doesn't look anything like what most Americans eat, for starters.
Evolutionary Advantage of Human Longevity (Score:5, Informative)
Most mammals live for a billion (10^9) heartbeats, humans live about 60 years, twice as long. One theory is the Grandmother Effect [theatlantic.com]. That is having older women share the burden of childrearing aided in the children's survival.
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That is why I have Grandfather duties alongside my wife.
Engineered oral hygiene (Score:2)
Many years ago (maybe 15) I read in New Scientist about a group in Sweden that had genetically engineered some mouth bacteria to hunt down and exterminate the bad bugs that cause tooth decay. One rinse of their mouthwash and you could kiss goodbye to the dentist forever.
I've never heard any more about it though, and I don't have access to the New Scientist archives, sadly.
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In response to this, I googled " Sweden that had genetically engineered some mouth bacteria", straight from your post.
The first entry was Wikipedia. The second entry, from ABC news, was as follows:
"A Bacteria That Could Keep Your Mouth Clean for Good - ABC News" [go.com]
Google is your friend. Enjoy your mouthwash.
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Good find, that page doesn't come up in Duck Duck Go. :-)
The paper seems to be from 2000. It says they've been working on it since the early eighties. It's possible that until today I hadn't thought about it since before Google was invented
But at that rate I'll have a flying car before I get my mouthwash.
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This is the company: Oragenics [oragenics.com]
The engineered treatment is 'currently in clinical trials' but they have a probiotic product which looks interesting.