Newly Released Einstein Brain Photos Hint At the Anatomy of Genius 130
scibri writes "Photographs of Einstein's brain taken shortly after his death, but never before analysed in detail, have now revealed that it had several unusual features, providing tantalizing clues about the neural basis of his extraordinary mental abilities. The most striking observation was 'the complexity and pattern of convolutions on certain parts of Einstein's cerebral cortex,' especially in the prefrontal cortex, and also parietal lobes and visual cortex. The prefrontal cortex is important for the kind of abstract thinking that Einstein would have needed for his famous thought experiments on the nature of space and time, such as imagining riding alongside a beam of light. The unusually complex pattern of convolutions there probably gave the region a larger-than-normal surface area, which may have contributed to his remarkable abilities."
Stop deifying this guy (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously.
He was just a scientist among many others.
Re: Stop deifying this guy (Score:2)
Might also explain his obstanance regarding the cosmological constant which he didn't abandon until observing red shif. Might not. I'm uncertain...
Re: Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe this is because Einstein studied equations, he needed that constant so the model would hold mathematically, his discoveries might have been simply observations he saw in those formulas, you can move and swap variables left right in the energy equations to get exciting and unexpected relationships that involve time, mass velocity and energy.
Re: Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Interesting)
Might also explain his obstanance regarding the cosmological constant which he didn't abandon until observing red shif. Might not. I'm uncertain...
Keep in mind that when he introduced the cosmological constant everyone still thought that our galaxy was the only thing in the universe. Hubble figured out that that was wrong about a decade later (and half a decade before noting the correlation between red shift and distance).
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks Muon and Black. That's some insightful stuff I hadn't fully considered. Sadly no mod points
Re: (Score:2)
Never heard this before but not refuting it. Was it really the hubble that changed that perspective?
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Yes, "The Hubble". Edwin Hubble to be precise. His discoveries were so important that even decades after his death, NASA named a space telescope after him.
Re: (Score:2)
Awesome, thanks a bunch. Also thanks for not being a jerk in regards to my ignorance. There's hope yet! :)
Re: Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the relevant bit on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hubble#The_universe_goes_beyond_the_Milky_Way_galaxy [wikipedia.org]
It's hard to imagine how different the universe must have seemed to them before that.
Re: (Score:2)
I was thinking that too. It just never occurred to me where that turning point in perspective would have been, but always neat to know.
Re: (Score:2)
Keep in mind that when he introduced the cosmological constant everyone still thought that our galaxy was the only thing in the universe. Hubble figured out that that was wrong about a decade later (and half a decade before noting the correlation between red shift and distance).
Ya know I was about to tear you a new one, and point out that at the very least andromeda and the whirlpool galaxy where known about in the 1700s.
Except holy crap your right! It seems there was a huge debate in astronomy over exactly this in the 1920s with most astronomers being unwilling to accept the distances needed for the multiple galaxy hypothesis. It wasnt until hubble & co's work with redshifts that the utterly mindboggling distances that really where in the universe, became hard to contest....
Re: (Score:2)
The equations only worked for an expanding universe, as the prevailing wisdom at that time that the universe was static, Einstein inserted a 'cosmological constant [wikipedia.org]'. Later on he said this was the biggest blunder of his career.
Re:Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. He was just a scientist among many others.
It is entirely possible that special relativity would have been formulated by someone else - with the problems with EM speed of light and reference frames, it could be said to have been in the air, so to say. That also goes for the photo-electric effect. General relativity was something else though, it was new, it was brilliant, and it completely shifted the way we think about the universe. He might not have been as great as Newton, but he's up there with the Very Select Few.
Re: (Score:2)
As for Newton, odds are good that he wasn't that special either. He had the founder advantage. There was a lot of new data to explain and not much in the way of competition for doing the explaining.
Re: (Score:1)
As for Newton, odds are good that he wasn't that special either. He had the founder advantage. There was a lot of new data to explain and not much in the way of competition for doing the explaining.
I don't think that the fact calculus hadn't been invented, and he was there to invent it - or, if you're take the extreme view he stole it from Leibniz, that he had the opportunity to use a new kind of math, at the time completely unfamiliar to the scientific world - when he was 24 has been an advantage in developing a theory of motion and developing a theory of gravity. If you do think so your argument is quite valid, I - and a whole lot of other people - just disagree with the premise.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Stop deifying this guy (Score:4, Insightful)
How is noticing he was rather smart deifying him? Personally, I never fully understood any of the stuff in his actual field of work, but always rather enjoyed stuff like letters or essays he wrote. I would never have heard of those however if he hadn't also been such a famous physicist. So I'm not sure what's there to moan about.. what's your angle? That nobody will bother to take a photo of your brain when you die?
Re:Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Interesting)
Studying is brain is being used to define traits that make humans smart.
How is that anything short of deification?
No, it's the opposite of that. We're trying to figure out why he could make leaps others couldn't... there's nothing mystical about it. If we had other similarly interesting brains we'd study them too.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Studying is brain is being used to define traits that make humans smart.
How is that anything short of deification?
No, it's the opposite of that. We're trying to figure out why he could make leaps others couldn't... there's nothing mystical about it. If we had other similarly interesting brains we'd study them too.
That's the point. Others have similar capabilities, Einstein is being picked pretty randomly. Yes he was the one to discover general relativity, but if he hadn't someone else (or a couple of people) would have done it, perhaps more gradually. It would be better to select a group of the wisest or most intelligent beings and investigate them, rather than hunt peculiarities of cerebral geometries, even then I would question the usefulness of the study.
It's like investigating Neil Armstrongs feet.
Re:Stop deifying this guy (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it's the opposite of that. We're trying to figure out why he could make leaps others couldn't... there's nothing mystical about it. If we had other similarly interesting brains we'd study them too.
That's the point. Others have similar capabilities, Einstein is being picked pretty randomly
No, you don't get to say "that's the point" while you're missing the point. Einstein was a genius and we have information about his brain. If any other geniuses want to donate their brains I'm sure we'll want to look at those too. Sadly, no one will ever be interested in yours on that basis.
It's like investigating Neil Armstrongs feet.
O fuck, I have been trolled. That, or I've been wasting my time talking to someone about as intelligent as an Elizabot.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
No you're not; Neil Armstrongs feet refers to not looking at the entire picture
Thinking is done primarily with the brain, confirmed by scan. Walking is not done primarily with the feet. Paralyzed from the neck down, brain still works. Paralyzed from the feet up, can't walk. Keep trying, you'll get it never.
Re: (Score:2)
I still think that relativity, is relative
Hence, the name.
* Holographic information storage in two dimensions and multi-dimensional folding, yada yada yada
Now, if you could show that this holographic information storage stores in two dimensions in any number of dimensions, then you'd
Re: (Score:1)
Metonymy. Conflation. (Score:5, Interesting)
Compare Windows 8 running on an ARM processor tablet to MacOS 8 running on a Powerbook G3 laptop by comparing their visual display of the operating system. Now try to compare a transmission-electron microscope image of the ARM chip vs the PowerPC G3 chip.
Hell, to equalize things a bit, compare Basilisk running on an AMDx64 chip running a Linux OS vs Basilisk running on an Intel Core i7 with Windows OS (pick your flavor) vs MacOS 7 running on a 68040-bare-hardware Mac IIci. Now run the same program on the emulated MacOS. What does looking at the hardware traces and the PNP-transistors vs NPN-transistors vs. the amount of area used for level I vs level II cache tell you?
Hells bells, now run Linux debian on three chips: AMD, Intel, ARM, get into a terminal and watch what it does. Does the underlying hardware matter as much as what is running on it?
Sometimes, looking at the bare metal will tell you nothing at all about what the system does or is capable of when it is "alive" with electrons running through it and with a particular program in its memory.
I bet the brain is like that. Looking at the specific brain might tell you very little of the "mind" that ran on it when the neurons' chemical and electrical activities created the physiological system that was Einstein's mind.
:>) ::
That is what makes this analysis like phrenology:
- conflating the mind with the brain;
- conflating the body with the person that lived in it / inhabited it;
- conflating the running simulation for the architecture and hardware upon which the simulation is running;
- conflating the hardware with the running software program; ;
- conflating the container for the thing contained
Metonymy
Smartest thing said here (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Some wise people say the brain is more like a radio antenna, picking up frequencies that comes from more subtle layers. Until we've RUN the tests, we will never truly know. I agree, we've yet to see evidence neural nets are enough for creating our minds. I do agree it _seems_ pretty darn close, given the unimaginable power of the brain though, but still, cannot really see how "me" can be created by that alone. There's basically two options: a subtle link or ghost in the machine. Given the seemingly endless
Re: (Score:2)
WTF? Yes, Einstein is considered to have been very smart by many. However:
Saying "that person was really smart" isn't the same as saying "that person is a deity", it's nowhere near. Also, the brain is studied for many reasons, one of which is "why not?".
In summary, I don't even know what you just said.
Re: (Score:2)
There is the difference between being smart and being the reference of what smart is.
Re: (Score:2)
Who said he is "the" reference? Did I miss something? Also, even if you were right; that difference isn't deification. Even if all IQ tests were made out relative to Einstein (which they're not), or if Einstein's views were regularly brought up in conversation to determine if something is smart or not (which they're not), yeah, that'd *still* not be deification. I agree that looking at his brain in isolation is an exercise in being silly, but I don't see how Einstein is being "deified" here, at all. It's ki
Re:Stop deifying this guy (Score:4, Insightful)
Using Einstein's brain as a metric is nothing short of religion, for the simple purpose that a single man can not be used to define what intelligence is. There isn't an even an objective answer to that.
Re: (Score:1)
WRONG. In some cases, structural differences in brains can have huge cognitive effects. Look up Kim Peek. The "science" that you are presumably referring to (phrenology) was very different and using it to argue that brain structure NEVER affects cognitive ability is just dumb. Also, phrenology was based on the idea of brain SIZE, when this study looks at something completely different. You conflating the two different types of studies shows that you really have no idea what you're talking about.
Threatened easily, I see. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
It's because I understand things that I know there is no "gift", just regular people that happen to have good intuition and ideas sometimes.
Re: (Score:2)
It's because I understand things that I know there is no "gift", just regular people that happen to have good intuition and ideas sometimes.
That's like saying "there are no good drivers, just people with fast reflexes." I mean, what? Hello! What else does "gifted" mean that having your brain generate the right ideas at the right time?
Re: (Score:2)
Gifted implies there is something special, almost magic, which makes things entirely different.
Re: (Score:2)
And Einstein was the Sebastien Loeb of thinking.
Re: (Score:2)
Gifted implies there is something special, almost magic
"implies"? ROFL. You're watching supernatural TV drama too much. Get real.
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't understand what gifted means, I suggest you look up its etymology.
Re: (Score:2)
If you don't understand what gifted means, I suggest you look up its etymology.
I did. [etymonline.com] So what? It's not related solely to weddings anymore.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh my god.
You're not even trolling are you?
gifted is originally "given a gift". That implies that something, be it god, nature, or the laws of the cosmos, *gave* the person something to make him exceptional. Can't you see the religious or supernatural - or whatever superstitious make-believe humans have invented to cover up their lack of understanding of our world -- implications when they're right in front of you?
Re: (Score:2)
Can't you see the religious or supernatural - or whatever superstitious make-believe humans have invented to cover up their lack of understanding of our world -- implications when they're right in front of you?
Yes, some of them might have. But 1) that
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's natural for homo sapiens with average intelligence to fear the gifted. After all, if you admit they exist, then you may have to accept that their insights into things you don't understand may be true
Or maybe God not only plays dice with the universe but throws them where we can't see them (to quote another gifted person who may have more than one thing genetically different about his nervous system).
Re: (Score:2)
It's natural for homo sapiens with average intelligence to fear the gifted.
I must be unnatural, since gifted people turn me on (often just intellectually, mind you, but still...)
Re: (Score:2)
There are several hundreds scientists which made major contributions to science. None of them were average, but that doesn't make Einstein that extraordinary and godlike.
Re: (Score:2)
To develop this further, Einstein is mostly used today as a symbol and an icon used to represent "the bright scientist".
But like most icons, posthumous studies are making him larger than life.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember. He did his best work with his ex-wife. There is the possibility that as a patent clerk, it was Einstein and his wife that worked on the theory of relativity.
After the divorce, he never did anything that matched the quality of that work. Much like George Lucas with Ex, Marcia Lucas.
Re: (Score:2)
Nobody's deifying him. Einstein was an extremely gifted scientist and mathematician, the same way Michael Phelps is a gifted athlete. Neither are flawless or religious icons, but their abilities do make them stand out far beyond average human beings and we like to study how they got that way.
Re: (Score:1)
Seriously. He was just a scientist among many others.
What a bunch of baloney. He was the forefather of modern physics, and a groundbreaking one as well. This ranks him up alongside with Newton. He was *not* just a scientist among many others, and every single piece of modern physics is based upon the foundation he made. Pleas think before you post.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Seriously. He was just a scientist among many others.
Right. So how many other great scientists share this "unusually complex pattern" of the brain. Perhaps we should take more brain scans of dead scientists to see if this is contributing factor to brialliant insight.
That's all well and good but.. (Score:4, Funny)
That's all well and good but what did his brain actually taste like?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It probably tastes like chickens. Wait, are you a zombie? :P
And very likely... (Score:1)
...Ronald Reagan, Bill Gates, Andrei Chikatilo and other people famous for various forms of stupidity and mental deficiency, have the same traits.
Re: (Score:3)
All we need to do is to compare them against our gold standard, Mr. Abbey Normal.
No control group (Score:3)
Re:No control group (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, some kind of quantification is definitely missing. How unusual? How unusual among people of the same profession? How common are major physics discoveries among people who don't share such features (i.e., is it a necessary feature?). Attempting to draw conclusions about complex cognitive functions from small-n measurements of a handful of macroscopic features feels a little bit like phrenology.
or maybe genius moulds anatomy (Score:5, Insightful)
we are quick to attribute a causal relationship: a certain anatomy causes genius; but this is, strictly speaking, an interpretation. we can not dismiss out of hand that a sense of genius works into a given environment, and moulds and forms the brain from habits that result from genius, rather than genius resulting from habits — the brain the enscribed result of the history of your thinking — the history of your perception of thoughts and mental effort (or lack thereof).
2cents from sunny and cold toronto island
jp
Re: (Score:2)
Basically, TFA is correlating cortex surface area (or volume) with intelligence. While intuitively appealing, I'm unsure if this has been subject to any sort of real analysis. Anybody out there with some data?
Dr. Frankenstein?
Re: (Score:1)
I have a particularly crenulated scrotal sack and I'm a genius when thinking with that.
Re: (Score:2)
Falk and her colleagues also noticed an unusual feature in the right somatosensory cortex, which receives sensory information from the body. In this part of Einstein’s brain, the region corresponding to the left hand is expanded, and the researchers suggest that this may have contributed to his accomplished violin playing.
It is already quite known that experience can cause expanded representation in various cortical areas, so failing to address that this "unusual" feature might have been caused by practicing the violin, rather than being the cause of violin skill, does little to boost the credibility of this article.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
That was just the hippocampus (according to the Wikipedia article). TFA here talks about cortical enlargement.
Re: (Score:1)
His convolutions is also not a new observation. My mother told me they were aware of this, and that was at least 35 years ago, so they probably knew the moment they pulled it out.
Other brains which have been saved? (Score:1)
First thing the title made me think of, sorry about the Godwin: They Saved Hitler's Brain [wikipedia.org].
Basic stupid question (Score:2)
Same thing with molars. I keep reading article about finding a 100000 year old human molar in the rift valley or something. All the complex pattern on the molars... are they the same for all human beings? Or are they as distinct as finger prints?
Re: (Score:2)
Einstein did not want this. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And to deny others exactly what he spent his life doing (studying to learn) is rather rude to be honest. People remember the man, not his organs.
John Holmes's fans shed a tear.
Re: (Score:2)
Einstein specifically requested his brain not be analyzed or end up as a grotesque and bizarre display stoking morbid curiosity.
Well, let this be a lesson then. You 'after I'm dead' wishes might not get granted.
Funny, it looks just like my brain. (Score:1)
Funny, it looks just like my brain.
No Place For Racism (Score:1)
Statistical fallacy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
If using a significance level of 0.05, then if you have 20 independent parameters and the null hypothesis is true for all of them, then the probability of all 20 statistical tests showing no difference is 0.95^20 = 0.36. Therefore the probability of getting at least one false positive is 64%. (I think I'm doing that right, anyway. Feel free to correct me)
Of course not all the measurement are independent, etc, and perhaps the authors already corrected for multiple comparisons. I don't really know, I'm not th
Cause and effect (Score:1)
Surface area? (Score:2)
Does a person think with surface area? Without comparative data from a large number of individuals and some known relation between brain surface area and intelligence, there is no significance to the shape of a man's brain compared to that of another man.
Phrenology (Score:2)
This whole thing smacks of the crackpot science of phrenology. (i.e. a psychological theory or analytical method based on the belief that certain mental faculties and character traits are indicated by the configurations of the skull. In other words, reading the bumps on a person's head.)
Sure there are very broad indications that certain parts of the brain are associated with broadly defined functions. There may also be a valid general inference that more wrinkles in a brain are better. But those things
A study using a population of one (Score:1)
Clement Stone (Score:1)
"You are a product of your environment." --Clement Stone
Einstein's Unique Brain? (Score:2)
Fishing (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)