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NASA Sci-Fi Space Science

The Downside of Warp Drives: Annihilating Whole Star Systems When You Arrive 235

Posted by Soulskill from the minor-details dept.
MrSeb writes "The dream of faster-than-light travel has been on the mind of humanity for generations. Until recently, though, it was restricted to the realm of pure science fiction. Theoretical mechanisms for warp drives have been posited by science, some of which actually jive quite nicely with what we know of physics. Of course, that doesn't mean they're actually going to work, though. NASA researchers recently revisited the Alcubierre warp drive and concluded that its power requirements were not as impossible as once thought. However, a new analysis from the University of Sydney claims that using a warp drive of this design comes with a drawback. Specifically, it could cause cataclysmic explosions at your destination."
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The Downside of Warp Drives: Annihilating Whole Star Systems When You Arrive More

The Downside of Warp Drives: Annihilating Whole Star Systems When You Arrive

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  • Not the destination that matters (Score:5, Funny)

    by discord5 ( 798235 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:28PM (#42004387)

    It's not the destination that matters, it's how you get there. Nothing stresses this as much as blowing up your destination when you get there.

  • Downside? Sounds like a perfect weapon system (Score:5, Funny)

    by Nadaka ( 224565 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:28PM (#42004393)

    Downside? Sounds like a perfect weapon system for interstellar conflict.

  • Dupe story (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:28PM (#42004397)

    This is old news, discussed in March:
    http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/03/02/1741252/warp-drives-may-come-with-a-killer-downside

  • Duh (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:30PM (#42004427)

    That's why you drop to impulse _before_ you go into the star system

  • Theoritical fix for theoritical problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by FilmedInNoir ( 1392323 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:32PM (#42004449)
    If we have enough tech to make a warp drive we can probably disperse energy on route as opposed to all of it at the end of the trip.

    • Re:Theoritical fix for theoritical problem (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MozeeToby ( 1163751 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:42PM (#42004637)

      If we have the technology to make a negative gravitational gradient (which all the FTL theoretical engines require, incidentally) you can do a lot of neat stuff. Make a ball of negative mass matter and let go and watch it shoot straight up just for kicks. Of course, there's absolutely no reason to expect that such a material is possible; oh sure, the math works out if you assume it can exist, but that doesn't mean that it is physically possible.

      • oh sure, the math works out if you assume it can exist, but that doesn't mean that it is physically possible

        If it can't actually exist, then the math is lacking. Some day we'll get this figured out.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )
          No... all it means that reality isn't math.

          Many things in math don't exist, and can't exist. That doesn't mean the math is wrong or incomplete... it just means reality can't contain the things that math can cope with.

    • Or make the trip in a series of much smaller jumps, so you don't build up enough energy to do any damage. Still might have to drop out a few hours from your destination, but it is by no means an unsurmountable problem.

      • Creative maneuvering might help too. I'm assuming the wave projects along your vector and not in a spherical manner.

        Eg, warp to a point above the galactic ecliptic, so your wave shoots off into deep space. Then, for the final leg, warp down into the plane and exit warp on the far side of the destination system, again shooting the wave off into deep space.

    • Re:Theoritical fix for theoritical problem (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Samantha Wright ( 1324923 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @03:04PM (#42004951) Homepage Journal
      Failing that, you could make a collector that ships need to aim their build-up into. All it would take is a static warp bubble at the destination, which could then be relaxed under more controlled circumstances to recover the high-energy particles.

      • All it would take is a static warp bubble at the destination, which could then be relaxed under more controlled circumstances to recover the high-energy particles.

        quoting from WP:

        The origin of the technology is unknown; all races learned to make jumpgates by examining already-existing jumpgates. For example, humans got jumpgate technology by buying it from the Centauri. Some ships are large enough to contain a jumpgate device, enabling them to enter and exit hyperspace at will. Minbari warships have been kn

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by eth1 ( 94901 )

      If we have enough tech to make a warp drive we can probably disperse energy on route as opposed to all of it at the end of the trip.

      Or perhaps use said energy to power the warp drive? Would be really cool if you just had to "jump start" the warp, and use mostly energy you collected afterwards. Sort of a warp speed Bussard ramjet.

    • So...what I'm hearing is that you want to channel it through the deflector dish? And perhaps send it into subspace?

  • Duh... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:33PM (#42004475)

    FTA:

    "Although we often think of space as empty, there are loads of high-energy particles shooting through the void. The University of Sydney research [PDF] indicates that these particles are liable to get swept up in the craft’s warp field and remain trapped in the stable bubble."

    And

    "All the energetic particles trapped during the journey have to go somewhere, and the researchers believe they would be blasted outward in a cone directly in front of the ship. Anyone or anything waiting for you at the other end of your trip would be destroyed."

    Looks like SOMEONES never heard of Bussard collectors.... [memory-alpha.org]

  • They figured out how to weaponize it... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:36PM (#42004545) Homepage

    This will GUARANTEE it will be made. It is now a military project, warp cruise missle, set it to the destination via a nice long route and have it drop out of warp near the other planet or star...... KABOOM!...

    Freaking A, take that Omicron Persei 8!

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Actually, this would be a very good thing.
      You know those killer asteroids they warn us about? Well, seems we finally have a way of dealing with them that does not involve Bruce Willis.
      Full steam ahead I say.

  • Than turn around and come back. As long as the energy has the room to dissipate between the stars nothing should be hurt.

  • Seems to me that genocidal (in that any intelligent life in that star systems is wiped out) deceleration qualifies.

  • Maybe this is where OMG particles come from (Score:5, Interesting)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:48PM (#42004741) Journal

    Advanced civilizations might have this drive, and prevent too much particle buildup. It might not be perfect though, so every once in a while a handful of particles come along for the ride. How else do you explain a proton with the kinetic energy of a pitched baseball? [wikipedia.org]

  • "for generations" ? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Black Parrot ( 19622 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:52PM (#42004787)

    The dream of faster-than-light travel has been on the mind of humanity for generations

    I'm guessing that that's 1, 2, 3, or 4 generations, since we've only known that the speed of light is a problem for space travel for about 100 years.

  • Weir: You destroyed three-quarters of a solar system!
    McKay: Five-sixths, but it's not an exact science.

  • The "Vin Diesel."

    The "Chuck Norris."

    The "Houseguest."

  • From TFA

    As your faster-than-light ship sails through the cosmos, it’s not alone. Although we often think of space as empty, there are loads of high-energy particles shooting through the void. The University of Sydney research [PDF] indicates that these particles are liable to get swept up in the craft’s warp field and remain trapped in the stable bubble.

    That's why you have a deflector dish! Don't these guys even _watch_ Star Trek? ;)

  • Ether all Intelligent Life is aware of this problem and thus conclude they should't, or they use it wiping out so much potential life that no one can spot each other. Since the Earth hasn't been wiped out and Colonized in what... almost 700 million years... I'd say it's more likely they don't use it. Then again we might just be lucky.

  • What the hell?! (Score:5, Funny)

    by asmkm22 ( 1902712 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @02:59PM (#42004897)

    I swear there was supposed to be a planet here...

  • It's not the fall that hurts, it is the sudden stop at the end.

  • . The ring would have to be made of an as-yet unidentified kind of dense exotic matter capable of bending space-time.

    You can always warp somewhere where there isn't a star or planet in front of you, I thought sci-fi reiterated this fact on a per series basis, but here it is one more time. Warp outside the galaxy > discharge your beam of death into the void > fly into the galaxy. Now about that material... does Wal-Mart carry it?

    • Flying into the galaxy at non-FTL speeds is going to take quote some time, why were you bothering with FTL in the first place?

  • Outward gamma burst (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cachimaster ( 127194 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @03:07PM (#42005011)

    >All the energetic particles trapped during the journey have to go somewhere, and the researchers believe they would be blasted outward in a cone directly in front of the ship.

    At that energy levels particles will be converted to gamma radiation, expelled outward in a burst. Maybe sombody already invented those ships [wikipedia.org].

    • And, of course, we all know what happens when people are exposed to gamma radiation...

      Planet Hulk!

      Maybe that's why the alien women are green.

  • Did anyone else notice that they used a football as their central "pod" for the ship in the article's graphic? It looks like a bad copy/paste job involving circa 1998 Bryce 3D, MS Paint, and a TI-83.
  • ...it's nothing compared to Ludicrous Speed!

  • Just another little bit of history repeating. (Score:3)

    by senorpoco ( 1396603 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @03:13PM (#42005103)
    Man wonders what lies just beyond the horizon. Man develops ability to travel beyond horizon. Man annihilates whatever was over there.

  • Time Fuse (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ambitwistor ( 1041236 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @03:17PM (#42005159)

    is a short story by Randall Garrett. The crew of the first starship narrowly escape the supernova from their destination star by escaping back into warp. They realize that this isn't a coincidence: their warp drive blew it up on arrival. (They eventually realize that it blew up their origin star too: the Sun.)

  • The word you are looking for is jibe, not jive.

  • To one man this collection of energetic particles is a bomb that must be defused and destroyed. To another man this collection of particles is a source of energy.

    Would it not be cool to have a vehicle that starts the trip with half a tank and ends it with the full tank? The energy can be used on non-FTL vehicles or permanent installations.

  • You could just stop a few months / years ahead of your actual destination, and then continue using traditional propulsion for the last leg of the journey? Would still be much faster.

  • If this were true, then aliens would have wiped us out if they had ever visited us.

    As some others have noted, you could always hook into your destination and cause all those hitchhiking particles to be shot into the nearest black hole. Then no one gets huts unless that cross in front of that traffic while its heading to the black hole.

  • ......THAT's not very neighborly....

  • Join the Interplanetary Navy, where you travel to new star systems..... and blow them up!

  • This isn't really such fresh news. And, I already fixed it for you: simply take shorter warp jumps, so not as much energy builds up. You're welcome. Patent pending.

  • 1) I wonder if perhaps that explains life being hit here over and over.
    2) Perhaps that might explain the asteroid belt

    Not likely for either, but perhaps another civilization(s) have visited and made mistakes.

  • High energy particles (Score:3)

    by james_van ( 2241758 ) on Friday November 16, 2012 @04:39PM (#42006327)
    Not a physicist here, so maybe someone who is (or knows more than me could answer) - could we find a way to absorb the energy from these particles, and maybe pump that energy into the warp drive? one of those "the faster you go, the more energy you collect" kind of things?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jandrese ( 485 )
      Conservation of Energy (which hopefully still applies) suggests that if this is the case, then your warp drive must consume more energy than is collected in this shockwave, probably a lot more. In other words warp drives may be possible, but they may require way too much energy to ever be practical. Like: Sure you can go between planets, your little 1 ton ship just has to have a constant energy output every second equivalent to one weeks output from the Sun...

      • Not necessarily...

        You only have to produce energy in your core faster than the rate of conversion occuring on your warpfied.

        Fly through sparse intergalactic space, and the rate of versions on the shockfront will be low. Your core won't need to be cranking billions of gigajoules of energy for your trip.

        Fire that bitch up inside a nebula? Well... that's a whole 'nother ball game, now isn't it?

        Amusingly, you could probably make use of the "deadly wave" effect to clear a path through the nebula, though your eff

  • "Attention, Schrodinger's Cat is possibly arriving at gate 42 in five minutes..."

  • "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a big gun."

    http://schlockmercenary.wikia.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries

  • jibe

    verb (used without object), jibed, jib ing

    to be in harmony or accord; agree: The report does not quite jibe with the commissioner's observations.

    jive

    verb (used with object)

    Slang. to tease; fool; kid: Stop jiving me!

  • There's no reason this needs to blow up the arrival (or departure) port; it's loosely analogous to supersonic travel producing sonic booms from stacking pressure waves. Supersonic aircraft don't blow up the airports or home cities.

    Besides, we need to figure out negative mass before this is a big deal.

  • I *still* haven't seen any explanation of how this will avoid violating causality, in the way that *all* methods of getting from one reference frame to another faster than light does.

    Of course, maybe that just means the universe is acausal. Weird, and a bit troublesome for our puny simian brains to wrap themselves around, but I suppose the universe doesn't care.

    • Causality's in a local bubble.
      It shan't cause you too much trouble.
      So skip and hop and leap at will!
      Your time is safe. Go take a pill.

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