Where Has All the Xenon Gone? 225
LucidBeast writes "Xenon, the second heaviest of the noble gasses, is only found in trace amounts in the atmosphere. Atmosphere contains less xenon than other lighter noble gasses. Missing xenon has perplexed scientists and it has been speculated that it is hiding in the Earth's mantle. Now, a group at the University of Bayreuth in Germany thinks it might have found the answer. It turns out that xenon does not dissolve easily into magnesium silicate perovskite, and thus it cannot hide there. Because it had no place to hide, it is now gone forever."
Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
Found it! It was in the couch.
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95% of lost items are just stuck under the pillow.
Strategic Xenon Reserve (Score:2)
There is probably a massive government Xenon reserve somewhere, like there is for almost everything else; oil, corn, wheat, your private information, and so on...
Canadians Reserves (Score:5, Interesting)
Canada has a Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve [theatlantic.com].
Re:Canadians Reserves (Score:5, Funny)
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..but somehow we lack a strategic bacon reserve. I think bacon really should have the priority there.
What strategies are based on bacon?
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What strategies are based on bacon?
Dunno.. the only ones that immediately spring to mind involve things like suicide or murder via, say, bear attack.
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You might be funny.... but make some Brownies but replace the cooking oil with Bacon fat. ZOMG far better than the "healthy" crap.
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We do have one, Its called "Iowa".
Re:Strategic Xenon Reserve (Score:4, Interesting)
Problem is, the U.S. is getting out of the rare gas business:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/11/AR2010101104496.html [washingtonpost.com]
So one can't even convincingly joke about it.
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Sure you can. That the government created the National Helium Reserve and its attendant bureaucracy for dirigibles and is still holding onto it in 2012 is ludicrous, whether or not they're finally getting rid of it. It's an exemplary case of how government bureaucracies always far outlive their original mandate and purpose.
Re:Strategic Xenon Reserve (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, by insisting on getting out of it ASAP, they're driving prices down so they don't get a return on the investment and they are driving wasteful use of a finite resource. The only way they could be any dumber about their market exit would be if they just opened the valves and walked away.
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>Sure you can. That the government created the National Helium Reserve and its attendant bureaucracy for dirigibles and is still holding onto it in 2012 is ludicrous,
It's like you totally missed the story about the helium shortage affecting MRI scanning.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/23/theres-a-helium-shortage-on-and-its-affecting-more-than-just-balloons/#the-government [time.com]
--
BMO
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Look everyone, it's another Rand Conspiracy nutjob...
I miss the days when the nutballs were easily identified by the tinfoil skull caps and end is near signs.... No they had to find a horribly written book by a incredibly untalented author that was universally panned as horrible in her time and all time after that and start their new religion on that piece of Science fiction..
You guys know that is how Scientology started right?
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I miss the days when the nutballs were easily identified by the tinfoil skull caps and end is near signs.... No they had to find a horribly written book by a incredibly untalented author that was universally panned as horrible in her time and all time after that and start their new religion on that piece of Science fiction..
I'm actually trying to figure out what you meant here. Are you trying to suggest that Objectivists are a religion along the lines of Scientology? The book may be five times too long an
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Must be the Democrats doing that since the Republicans are planning on reducing the debt by selling off Federal land.
[John]
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Anonymous Coward for President!
[John]
It was blown away in a Megablast. (Score:5, Funny)
This will make the Xenonphobes happy.
Where it'll be found (Score:5, Funny)
It'll be found in a country that by coincidence is in need of liberating.
"gone"? did it ever exist? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm confused: did it go out into upper atmosphere or space like helium (seems unlikely @~10x weight of nitrogen & oxygen), did alchemists turn it into gold or did we overestimate the amount there initially was? not seeing how the "conservation of mass" loop is being closed here...
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I'm confused: did it go out into upper atmosphere or space like helium (seems unlikely @~10x weight of nitrogen & oxygen), did alchemists turn it into gold or did we overestimate the amount there initially was? not seeing how the "conservation of mass" loop is being closed here...
it's assumed it was here after earth formed, by assumptions that the material which earth was formed from had x amount of it.
Re:"gone"? did it ever exist? (Score:5, Informative)
RTFA. It says that it was probably in the early earth's atmosphere, and the earth's atmosphere was probably blown away by some event, and then re-established itself xenon-free from gasses bubbling up from the molten landscape.
They also wonder why Mars has no xenon.
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Re:"gone"? did it ever exist? (Score:5, Interesting)
I interpreted the poorly written article to mean. The forming rocks could absorb the other noble gases just fine, but not xenon. I infer this would have left an atmosphere (at the time) that was rich in xenon since very little of it was absorbed into the rock. The article speculated that some form of meteorite collision or solar event blew off the atmosphere. Leaving me to infer that the atmosphere we have today is the result of the rock releasing gas into the atmosphere. Since the rock was xenon poor, today's atmosphere is also xenon poor as a result.
Re:"gone"? did it ever exist? (Score:4, Interesting)
Which coincides nicely with the planetary impact hypothesis for the Moon's origin.
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Wrong question (Score:5, Informative)
TFS makes no sense at all; TFA is not much better. It seems that, rather than asking, "Why is there so little xenon in the atmosphere" and coming up with a purely speculative answer, the researchers might have questioned why anyone expected to find more.
Re:Wrong question (Score:4, Informative)
It seems that, rather than asking, "Why is there so little xenon in the atmosphere" and coming up with a purely speculative answer, the researchers might have questioned why anyone expected to find more.
I thought everyone (well, scientists anyway) expected more Xenon than we observe on Earth because of meteorite samples: apparently meteorites have more xenon than we see in our atmosphere.
Unless... did you mean why didn't the Bayreuth researches test (e.g. question) any those theories? I thought they did test one of those theories by trying to saturate a mineral (perovskite) with xenon, said mineral being found in the Earth's mantel. (IANAGS, so perhaps an actual geo-scientist could comment on whether perovskite was a good choice for a test like this; I'm willing to give the Bayreuth researchers the benefit of the doubt, given that they are actual geoscientists and probably gave some thought to candidate minerals for their test).
Interesting? Sure... I never knew about a "xenon discrepancy"; so mildly interesting.
Informative? Sort of... I would have liked to see another paragraph on xenon comparing content for extra vs. terrestrial rocks. I'm willing to give the geo-scientist community the benefit of the doubt of having thoroughly considered the "xenon deficiency" to the point where they actually gave it a name.
From TFA:
“This model is enough to explain the whole xenon deficiency,” says Svyatoslav Shcheka, a geochemist at the University of Bayreuth in Germany. He and Hans Keppler, also of Bayreuth, report the finding online October 10 in Nature.
Compared with meteorites that formed out of primordial solar system stuff, Earth and Mars have far less xenon in their atmospheres. Scientists have proposed many possible explanations, such as minerals that locked up xenon in the upper parts of Earth’s middle layer, the mantle.
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I am guessing that there is some pretty solid theory of exactly what radio of material is created in stars and then expelled in when they die. So we know that teh universe is made up of xx% cardon, x% silicon, xx% xenon.
So any mass as big as a planet would have that same percentage of Xenon unless something happened to it.
If Earth itself (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft is to blame (Score:3)
They used the Xenon to make XBox 360's
In Xenon/HID headlight bulbs (Score:2)
Seriously, all new cars come with HIDs now...
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most new cars I've seen over the past 5-6 years have come with LED headlights. First thing I did when I got the electronics for my bike in 2007 was replace the HIDs with LEDs. They're far more efficient and far more rugged.
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You are mistaken, LED headlights are just now becoming available from the factory. While aftermarket conversion kits may have been available (though I've never heard of anyone else replacing their HID headlights with LEDs) they certainly aren't common.
One of the first new cars that was equipped from the factory with LED headlights was the 2008 Lexus LS600h. That's the Hybrid version of the flagship Lexus sedan. It is a $100,000+ vehicle and is pretty rare. Five years later, we are starting to see LED he
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the Caetano coaches that National Express use have LED main beams. They're all at least ten years old, and while the chassis might be built by either Volvo or Renault, the coachwork is all Spain.
Source: I rode in one yesterday and I'll be riding in one again tonight.
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Some high-end euro cars do have LED headlights (not just sidelights/indicators) but they're nowhere near as common as HIDs on new cars AFAIK...
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LED headlights in my Nissan Leaf, so they're apparently legal in the US. Though Nissan cheaped out and put halogens in for the high beams.
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A lot of new cars (Audi A8 and TT to name two, also the new BMWs, Citroens, and the Ford compacts have nothing but LED lightgear) have LED running lights using Cree or Luxeon (most likely Luxeon as they're slightly cheaper) elements. LED indicators have been around for years, at least as long as CHMBL (Centre High Mounted Brake Lights) became mandatory on every new car sold in the UK a decade or some ago. Some EU directive.
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Audi R8 and S8 are the ONLY ones that have LED headlights as an OPTION. They are not standard.
Or are you confused and think that the stylized strip of led's for DRL indicators are the headlights...
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But don't think I'm agreeing with Tastecicles, because they're almost wrong. They are only the dipped/low-beam headlights as LEDs are not yet legal in the USA or Europe for full or high-beam use. But as for this usage, even SEAT has them now on some of their models and that's one of VAG's "budget" brands.
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Cadillac has them on some models now, and Toyota switched the Prius from HID to LED recently. LED headlamps are becoming commonplace fairly quickly!
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eh? Last I checked Lamborghini don't make bikes. They started out making tractor units, went into sports cars, but never a bike AFAIK. ICBW.
Where? (Score:2)
So, where did it go?
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Ask the Lorax, dude. Ask the Lorax.
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Another terrible summary (Score:5, Informative)
"Xenon, the second heaviest of the noble gasses, is only found in trace amounts in the atmosphere.
So far so good.
[The] [a]tmosphere contains less xenon than other lighter noble gasses.
Could be read as meaning that the other noble gasses contain more xenon than the atmosphere, but as a sentence it's passable.
...it is hiding in the earths mantle.
It's called [the] Earth, and you forgot the possesive apostrophe.
Now a group at the University of Bayreuth in Germany think that they might have found the answer.
"The answer," given the context, can only seem to mean that they've found out where the xenon is hiding, but...
I[t] turns out that xenon does not dissolve easily into magnesium silicate perovskite, thus it cannot hide there. And because it had no place to hide, it is now gone forever."
Oh, okay, so "the answer" seems to be "we still don't know, but it's not where we thought it was"? Rather than "it is now gone forever" it seems (from reading one of articles, shock horror) that it was never actually there in the first place - perhaps substituting "come from" in place of "hide" would have made more sense.
Yours sincerely,
Captain Pedantic
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For what it's worth, actually it's "gases". "Gasses" is a present tense verb.
Sorry (Score:2)
"Possessive," but then, Muphry's Law [wikipedia.org].
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but no!! (Score:2)
<obligatory Jimmy Hoffa reference> (Score:2)
Xenon Rocks? (Score:2)
xenononline.com [xenononline.com]
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So this is a heavy noble gas band?
Interesting. Most of chemistry bands are metals.
I thought xenon was most chemically active (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas_compound [wikipedia.org]
Yes, see the link: of all the noble gases we've studied, it is the most chemically active, we've created many more compounds with xenon than any other noble gas. It's the most reactive.
Radon is heavier and has more complex electron shells and therefore is probably more reactive, theoretically. But it is also radioactive, so it isn't more chemically active when we take into account the concept the idea of sticking around and staying in the compound.
So xenon is the most chemically active noble gas, period.
I forgot to add the inevitable conclusion: (Score:2)
the xenon could be trapped in the crust, unlike any other noble gas, CHEMICALLY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon#Compounds [wikipedia.org]
The real question (Score:2)
Long time passing.
Where have all the Cowboy Neals gone?
Long time ago.
Where have all the Cowboy Neals gone?
Mommas grounded them one by one.
Oh, When will they ever learn?
Oh, When will they ever learn?
That explains this message I just saw. (Score:2)
Wha... (Score:2)
I'd like to say you can't make this up, but, apparently, you can.
Twilight of the Xenon (Score:2)
O Noble Gas, We Hardly Knew Ye! :(
First thing that popped into my mind (Score:2)
I need some Xenon!
I'm holdin' out for some Xenon 'til the mornin' li-ight!
...
Bad 80s movie? You're soaking in it!
Been looking for years... (Score:2)
...But, I still don't Xenon.
Used up in science demonstrations (Score:3)
At 169 m/s, the speed of sound in xenon gas is slower than that in air due to the slower average speed of the heavy xenon atoms compared to nitrogen and oxygen molecules. Hence, xenon lowers the resonant frequencies of the vocal tract when inhaled. This produces a characteristic lowered voice timbre, an effect opposite to the high-timbred voice caused by inhalation of helium. Like helium, xenon does not satisfy the body's need for oxygen. Xenon is both a simple asphyxiant and an anesthetic more powerful than nitrous oxide; consequently, many universities no longer allow the voice stunt as a general chemistry demonstration. As xenon is expensive, the gas sulfur hexafluoride, which is similar to xenon in molecular weight (146 versus 131), is generally used in this stunt, and is an asphyxiant without being anesthetic.
Fun times. :)
Seems unlikely to me (Score:2)
I agree with the critics of this model.
"Other scientists arenâ(TM)t so sure. ChrystÃle Sanloup, a geochemist at the University of Edinburgh, has studied other, shallower places in the Earth where xenon might be locked up. She says the new paper canâ(TM)t explain several aspects of xenon geochemistry, including how Mars could also be lacking xenon in its atmosphere when it has very little perovskite in its depths."
I've pondered this very question for decades (Score:2)
It died due to people just (Score:2)
going with Core i3/i5/i7 for their servers, underestimating the advantage of Xeon (support for ECC memory and hence protection from cosmic rays).
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I thought it went into all those disco strobe lights in the '70s...
Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:5, Informative)
Actually pretty close. A bunch went into display/effects laser systems in the 1990s, before cheap diode lasers because available in a variety of colours. If you ever saw non-red/non-green lasers at shows in the 1990s, they were either YAG (different tech altogether), or Argon/Neon/Krypton/Xenon blends for different colours. Now they're pretty much all solid-state, and cost $500 instead of around $100k.
Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:5, Informative)
Xenon is in QUALITY headlights. the blue and purple crap the posers put on their cars is not Xenon but actually low grade halogen bulbs with a color coating on them.
many install HIDs without special lenses (Score:2)
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Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:4, Insightful)
Sure, if you like replacing your headlights 1-2 times a year. That makes them even more expensive by comparison.
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Try them in a motorcycle. I replace them 4 times a roding season. But they are worth it due to motorcycle makers being epic dumb on headlight design.
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Vibration. high revving sportbikes will literally create a resonance in the bulb filament. I end up having to ride a few days with bright only aimed back down until I get a replacement.
re: Sylvania SilverStar series bulbs (Score:2)
Personally, I don't consider those Sylvania SilverStar series of halogen bulbs "really nice". Not saying their light output isn't good. It is, but everyone I've known on 3 different car enthusiast message forums has encountered the same complaints with those. They burnt out far too quickly!
On a lot of cars, changing out the bulbs is kind of a pain. The auto makers figured it wasn't a task you were going to do more than once every 4-5 years or so. But the Sylvania bulbs tend to last as little as 6 months i
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yeah, if car enthusiasts boards are complaining, finger oil isn't the cause.
Frankly the whole thing seems silly - on my older Subaru (RIP) I needed to do something about the anemic headlights, and I wound up having to install a harness with a relay which powered heavier gauge cable which then powered special-order bulbs which could use the higher current.
Everything in the stores is spec'ed to run at the same current to avoid burning through the stock wiring. There's not really much of a difference between
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Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:4, Funny)
"Xenon headlights are a hazard, especially to older drivers."
⦠because drivers can see seniors on sidewalks sooner and have a better chance of hitting them for points?
Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It's in all those funny looking headlights (Score:5, Insightful)
Is this issue really the bulbs, or is it the asshole, the truck, or the tailgating ? My preference if someone is really close and trying to blind me is to turn my lights off, and let them light the road for me. Of course, this wouldnt be safe, so I keep coasting to a slower and safer speed. Eventually the asshole figures it out.
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Agree on slowing down for the scumbags.
When they get closer to my ugly steel liftgate and tri-ball Reese hitch (always leave the hitch installed as a standoff) it reminds them of their mortality and they back off.
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It's the asshole with the bulbs. putting them in a crap car that does not have projector style headlamps that is designed to use 100+ watt bulbs. Reflector headlamps without a cutoff shutter, (2007-2012 civic has a properly designed reflector for example) simply blind the hell out of everyone. And 90% of all trucks have craptastic designed headlights to begin with, so those by default are bad, adding the bulbs makes it worse.
I have 100 watt Xenon's in my Pontiac Fiero, but I also made a plate to repla
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It's also the perfectly reasonable driver in the opposing lane. Any aim that provides him with reasonable head lighting can place you in the focus of his headlights given the right road conditions. If his headlights are too intense you won't be able to see a thing after the encounter.
When it comes to headlights, more is certainly not necessarily better.
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on a mostly related note... I spent some time driving around the desert in arizona and new mexico. Every car that drove by at night blinded me in the worst way. It took me several days to figure out that it wasnt just a common thing for all drivers to keep their high beams on all the time ( they werent ), but that the issue was the amount of darkness out there is so great that the contrast to what is needed by urban cars to light a road at night is just painful.
The angle of the road can occur with any light
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5 percent tint also works wonderfully when the problem is the car behind you.
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No the answer to the asshole tailgaiting is a pipe bumper and standing on the brakes. It will make those light go out quickly.
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most slashdotters are net producers of gasses.
You're thinking CO2 and methane. I'm quite sure I don't produce very much xenon.
I have a fission reactor in my garage. So I am a net producer of radioactive Xenon.
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I just have a Tesla Coil I run 24/7 as a security device. so all I generate is Ozone.
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And I got a pet rock. Whenever there is a sudden release of radon in the living room, I can blame it on the pet.
Re:Wha?? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was confused as hell, but here is what I've gleaned:
1. Most noble gases were dissolved in/embedded in the early Earth's rock.
2. Xenon due to a variety of factors, did not behave in a similar manner, and thus was free floating in the early atmosphere.
3. A 'big event', like the event that caused Earth's moon to form also knocked the original atmosphere into space.
4. Because almost all of the xenon was in the atmosphere at the time of the event, it was literally lost (from the perspective of the Earth) to space and was either acquired by the other planets or sun, or blown by the solar wind out to the edge of the solar system and beyond.
5. Some small amounts of xenon were recaptured by Earth (like how the bits that formed the moon are still 'bound' to Earth) and those small amounts are what we measure in our current atmosphere.
In short:
Xenon exists in the atmosphere, not rocks. Impact event knocks off Earth's atmosphere (and the Xenon), Earth's atmosphere is replaced by outgassing from the previously saturated rock. The rock did not contain Xenon, so we have only trace amounts today.
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I didn't read the article but this cannot be their conclusion. Because something cannot be found it must be gone forever?
It's been dispersed into the near vacuum of interstellar space.
As far as we're concerned, that's gone forever.
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This looks like a Job for Roger Wilco Space Guy!
Sigh I wish there were more comments. We need Space Quest VII the return to roman numerals!
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I'm fairly sure confused Scientologists are responsible.
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