Study Finds Alcohol, Not Marijuana, Is the Biggest Gateway Drug For Teens 459
An anonymous reader writes with news of a study out of the University of Florida which found that alcohol is the biggest "gateway" drug, the use of which increases the likelihood of other drug use. Quoting:
"In the sample of students, alcohol also represented the most commonly used substance, with 72.2 percent of students reporting alcohol consumption at some point in their lifetime. Comparatively, 45 percent of students reported using tobacco, and 43.3 percent cited marijuana use. In addition, the drug use documented found that substance use typically begins with the most socially acceptable drugs, such as alcohol and cigarettes, then proceeds to marijuana use and finally to other illegal, harder drugs. Moreover, the study showed that students who used alcohol exhibited a significantly greater likelihood — up to 16 times — of licit and illicit substance use."
Wow (Score:5, Informative)
Somebody please tag this "obvious".
Re:Wow (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
The "Elephant in the room" is caffeine. Why is society not prepared to deal with this menace, that makes drugs socially acceptable from an early age?
99% of heroin addicts admit to having used caffeine in some form before they were sixteen.
Re: (Score:3)
Nonsense. It's dihydrogen oxide.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
My first thought exactly.
Also, Alcohol is a lot more dangerous than Marijuana, causing aggression (in some), loss of control, impaired motor functions coupled with a sense of still being in control, liver cirrhosis, cancer and brain damage.
On the side of Marijuana, there is a slight lung cancer risk and a moderate risk of depressions. In fact, the damage law enforcement does is probably more significant then what the stuff itself does.
Re: (Score:3)
let me correct that for you, "On the side of Marijuana are some risks dependent upon the method upon the method of consumption, there are some psychological problems but these are largely associated with predisposition and using it under an atmosphere of illegality and threat of extreme violence from authorities."
Illegality seems largely driven by greed, from competing artificial fibres, perversely enough the alcohol industry with it's sectors of extreme profitability, pharmaceutical corporations due to t
Psychological problems and legality (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Psychological problems and legality (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes but that's kinda the point. Alcohol fucks people up even worse, yet it's legal. It's inconsistent to claim that marijuana is illegal because of outcome A when alcohol is legal but causes outcome A in even more people. We need to either ban alcohol, or legalize marijuana - and banning alcohol just doesn't work.
Re:Psychological problems and legality (Score:4)
Quite a lot of people do this to themselves with alcohol. And generally, alcohol has far more severely negative impact on the abusers themselves and on innocent bystanders.
People that do not deal with their issues do not have a drug problem, they have a personality defect in the first place. If not one drug, they would just use another. Legalizing Marijuana would reduce the severity of the negative effects, as it is more benign than alcohol, but still provides the escape these people seek. And there is no way in hell to successfully remove alcohol from society. The US prohibition failed. Even Islamic countries with medieval, drastic penalties have large numbers of alcoholics. That approach does not work.
And on a related note, criminalizing responsible, recreational use of mild drugs by adults is not justifiable ethically.
Re: (Score:3)
yep. look at australian aboriginal communities. the alcohol is much much worse than the weed. cops usually don't bother enforcing weed because there's so little risk of violence occurring as a result of it. alcohol on the other hand... well, quite a lot of places in australia actually have prohibition for that reason.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
My first thought exactly.
Also, Alcohol is a lot more dangerous than Marijuana, causing aggression (in some), loss of control, impaired motor functions coupled with a sense of still being in control, liver cirrhosis, cancer and brain damage.
On the side of Marijuana, there is a slight lung cancer risk and a moderate risk of depressions. In fact, the damage law enforcement does is probably more significant then what the stuff itself does.
The main negative side effect of marijuana is the incredibly smug self righteousness it causes in its users and fans.
It is the Apple of drugs.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Informative)
I smoke a ton of weed and wouldn't care if they made baby food out of it, but it can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people.
Everyday life can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people.
So can odd noises, squirrels, religion and the voices that only they hear.
Re:Wow (Score:5, Funny)
Don't even get me started about the day the squirrel went berserk.
I remember it well.
We were in the First Self-Righteous Church, in the sleepy little town of Pascagoula...
Re: (Score:3)
Everyday life can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people.
So can odd noises, squirrels, religion and the voices that only they hear.
I have a close family member who suffers from mental illness, and I have to say that you are absolutely correct. He struggles constantly with things that he knows should be no big deal, yet evoke a debilitating paranoiac reaction, anyway.
Over the years, he's gotten a lot better at recognizing the early warning signals that a panic attack is coming, and changing his environment to hopefully avoid losing control. But man, is it ever a constant struggle for him, and his immediate family (he's a first cousin of
Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)
I bet the list of things that can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people includes pretty much everything.
The only honest to goodness negative reaction I've ever seen with marijuana use (outside of the physical effects like smoking too much and getting the spins/nauseous) is increased anxiety, and that was only a couple times, both times involving someone that probably didn't want to smoke in the first place and was just doing so to "go along with the crowd" and hadn't really gotten high before, so the effects freaked them out.
In those cases, though, I find it hard to blame the weed itself for that; nobody should consume an intoxicating substance just to "fit in", but then we've all been to high school and now how THAT goes...
Re: (Score:3)
I tutored a guy who developed reasonably severe paranoia after heavy marijuana use.
THC is a psychoactive drug and just like any others it has potential negative side effects. Alcohol does too, of course, and some severe ones, but it's irresponsible and counterproductive to pretend THC doesn't have any. Anybody taking a drug, particularly a recreational one, should be aware of the possible negative side effects, make an informed decision, and use in moderation.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, is "paranoia" a mental disorder?
It isn't "paranoia" if they really ARE out to get you.
I'm about as laid back as they come and bother no-one. The other day my lighter ran out of fluid, so I went out in the garage to my car's lighter, then sat there in the driver's seat with the window rolled down smoking my joint in peace. Right as I was finishing up I noticed a cop drive by. There is no way he could have possibly seen me smoking but I got a bad feeling right then so I tossed out my blunt, rolled up the window, locked the car, then calmly walked in the house.
As I rounded the corner leaving the garage I saw that the cop had pulled into the next driveway down, kinda creepin along and riding his brakes, just like he was scoping out his rearview and thinking of getting out to walk my way. Thank God he missed his chance. I think he must have either smelled it as he drove by, or some anonymous do-gooder somewhere (no clue who it could be because I saw nobody else around) called him. Either way:
You see now why stoners are paranoid? Just like that one can get arrested, put in jail, and life ruined, even when one is totally and completely minding one's own business and hurting nobody.
Re: (Score:3)
Could be. HE attributed the paranoia to the pot. When he eased off, he said it went away.
Interesting. I can't say I'm totally surprised, given my experience with high-THC marijuana. It was some pretty intense stuff.
If it's abused, it can be addictive, and can cause problems in your work and personal lives.
Interesting story: I was contacted about 5 years ago by a former college roommate. He had been off of weed for about 18 months after having hit rock bottom. He lost his job, his girlfriend, and I forget what else. He reached out to tell me that through is ordeal with drug abuse, a particular offhand comment that I once made had stuck with him through it all.
Apparently (I don't rememb
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
I bet the list of things that can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people includes pretty much everything.
The only honest to goodness negative reaction I've ever seen with marijuana use (outside of the physical effects like smoking too much and getting the spins/nauseous) is increased anxiety, and that was only a couple times, both times involving someone that probably didn't want to smoke in the first place and was just doing so to "go along with the crowd" and hadn't really gotten high before, so the effects freaked them out.
In those cases, though, I find it hard to blame the weed itself for that; nobody should consume an intoxicating substance just to "fit in", but then we've all been to high school and now how THAT goes...
On the other hand, I have "high anxiety" in that I used to suffer from panic attacks, but marijuana actually calms me and mitigates the attacks completely. Many people with high anxiety self-medicate with marijuana--in my case because I trust a plant that has been in continuous use by humans for thousands of years over a for-profit company that invents drugs by trial and error. On the other hand, I have encountered plenty of people who can't touch the stuff because it makes them paranoid and anxious and many of them benefit tremendously from prescription pharmaceuticals--to each their own. The effects vary by dose, strain, delivery method, and person. It's not for everyone, but others absolutely adore it. One thing it is not is addictive as anyone who was once a broke college student knows. I'm sure someone has linked to this essay [marijuana-uses.com] already, but Carl Sagan summed it up pretty well.
On a side note, I have two younger step-siblings. One has been off of heroin for a couple of years and the other is in rehab. Both got hooked in their teens. When I was a teenager, "everyone" knew that pot was completely harmless and that heroin was horribly addictive. Meth was a different story; it was the "new" drug and I saw a lot of people ruin their lives with that stuff. My siblings, on the other hand, grew up in the era of "Drugs are bad, mmm-kay" where they were taught that marijuana is a "gateway drug" and it is just as bad as all the others--a Schedule I narcotic just like LSD and heroin. The message they seemed to have absorbed is "I tried pot and it was pretty mellow--so all these other drugs can't be that bad." I mean, look at the propaganda on whitehouse.gov [whitehouse.gov]. Sure, they don't out-and-out lie, but they try so hard to make marijuana seem dangerous: "In 2009, marijuana was involved in 376,000 emergency department visits nationwide." Yah, and I bet 100% of those cases also involved alcohol! The LD50 for pot is about the same as H20... The point is that informing kids about drugs works--but not if you lie to them. No one told us about meth and all my step-siblings got was fact-free propaganda.
Re:reduced short time memory and concentration (Score:5, Informative)
Weeks, yes, months, no.
A study at Harvard found no significant effects on memory, etc. after quitting for 28 days.
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html [harvard.edu]
Re: (Score:3)
but who's to say that's not a positive effect?
alcohol rips up your short term memory too and people get freaked up on alcohol way more often than from weed, even those with access to both.
anyways - alcohol is on a fucking totally different level than mary-jay. ever heard of anyone spending a week in the hospital from physical effects from weed? yeah, thought so. yet your local hospitals intensive care is filled (if you live in the west) 30% with people there due to drinking(pancreatitis, ulcer etc etc..). i
Re:reduced short time memory and concentration (Score:4, Informative)
Even though there might be a slight drop in what some might perceive as "short term memory" (more like: verbal memory), there are also huge gains in other areas, i.e. creativity. The overall effect is a gain in intelligence and mental ability, not the opposite.
That is exactly what alcoholics say, you know.
I'm all in favour of heavy drinking and drug use, but to pretend they give you enhanced insight, creativity or whatever is really just a load of bollocks.
Get someone to record your drunk or drug-fuelled ideas and then play them back to you when you're sober. If you're Ernest Hemingway or Jimi Hendrix, you might possibly have some gold amongst the dross, but that's only because you're an artist to start with. Most people will just have dross, which is fine as long as they're not kidding themselves it's anything else.
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry dude - I grew up with burnouts. You have do a lot of weed for a long time, but they SURELY weren't any smarter in any way that was obvious to an external observer. They did seem pretty happy though - just sitting on the couch was a great day for them.
In my experience this is a psychological reaction to the sense of well being that marijuana gives. I have also known a lot of long time cannabis users who display this behaviour, and have even experienced it personally. The drug gives you a feeling that all is well and dampens the desire for having more possessions, status, power, etc. This is nothing to do with intelligence or memory, only with motivation. It may seem on the face of things to be a negative or detrimental effect, especially in a society whe
Re:Wow (Score:5, Interesting)
It can trigger psychotic episodes in mentally ill people.
Being a daily user of over 10 years (both illegally and now legally) and having suffered a triggered psychotic episode, the problem is certain people like myself can be very sensitive to high THC levels. Many grower-bred strains, particularly Sativas, are bred for high THC levels as it's an active, energetic high and can be very pleasant. However, under the right conditions and a vulnerable individual, it can cause severe anxiety, racing thoughts (exacerbated even by paranoia of doing something illegal) and even outright delusions. Another substance in marijuana is CBD, which has the opposite effect, and is more prevalent in Indicas. Research has actually shown it to act as an antipsychotic, neuroprotectant, inhibit tumor growth in both brain and lung cancers, and generally makes you feel sleepy and sedated. On the street, you generally never know the levels in what you are getting, and even at some dispensaries, unless you know the strain and the of THC and CBD of that family. If you get a THC dominant strain and a vulnerable individual uses it, yes, it can trigger a psychotic episode. That said, now that I have access to safe, reliable and professionally grown marijuana where I know exactly the contents of strains, I can choose carefully and it has worked wonders for my chronic pain and anxiety.
Re:Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
So the argument that pot is no worse then smoking or drinking, or that it is less harmful. Isn't much of an excuse to legalize it.
It is actually. Many think that alcohol and tobacco are not drugs and they're not on the same level as marijuana. It's this misperception that's maintaining the prohibition.
Re: (Score:2)
done
Re: (Score:3)
It doesn't necessarily have to be related to trauma. I have one friend who self-medicates his General Anxiety disorder with marijuana. He was never beaten or abused or anything, he just happens to have the condition, and marijuana helps keep him calm, and it doesn't require him to take psychoactive drugs.
Luckily for him he telecommutes so he doesn't need to worry about covering it up (we're not a medical marijuana state)...
Re: (Score:3)
My point was informed primarily by the overall harm of each drug. While I'm sure you may enjoy a glass of something now and then and are at little risk for falling into alcoholism and letting it control your life, not everyone can. Nobody's ever beaten their wife to death while stoned.
I'm not an alcohol drinker myself, aside from the
Makes sense (Score:2)
Re:Makes sense (Score:4, Interesting)
Over a decade ago, I used to get my weed through a guy who wasn't yet 21. He was dealing to pay to go to college without having to hold down a job at the same time. Every time I'd go to pick up from him (and I found he did this to several other over-21 clients as well), he made us go to the liquor store and buy him beer as part of his payment. His mother knew he was dealing, and why so many people came around, but I think she had decided that was better than joining a gang or failing his classes because he was working all night flipping burgers. She also didn't seem to have a problem with him drinking, but she refused to buy alcohol for him. (She did, however, smoke his weed.)
There was another guy who I bought from, who liked to shoot the rats that ran across the cables outside his balcony. Since it was just a BB gun, all it ever did was knock the rats off the wire. It was only about a 10 foot drop, and they'd bounce off the ground and climb back up again. Then he'd shoot them again.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
the gapeway to addiction
Is that like being addicted to goatse? If so, then no thank you!
Re:Makes sense (Score:5, Funny)
Goatse addiction-now that's an illness that I hope nobody else has to go through.
A couple years ago some of my "friends told me about this nasty website called goatse. They told me to never go there because no amount of brain bleach will make you unsee it. So I avoided it. Whenever I saw a suspicious link I left it alone so as to keep my mind pure. Yet all this time I spent wondering how something could be so disgusting that it would be unforgettable.
One day I broke. I was bored. There was nothing on TV. My favorite message boards were dead. I was about to go insane from the lack of anything to do. Then the thought popped into my head "why not go look at goatse; it can't be THAT bad." Initially I resisted. My friends had warned me well, but eventually I broke. I slowly typed goatse.cx into my browser bar trembling with fear and anticipation. When the page loaded I was horrified. It was even worse than my friends said. I found myself retching because it was so repulsive. Yet I could not tear my eyes away There was something hypnotizing about that distended rectum with hands gripping the sides.
Soon I was spending hours a day on that site doing nothing but staring into that gaping maw. I could not figure out why, but I was hooked on it. The hole had me transfixed. Before long I started adorning my possessions with goatse paraphernalia. While I hid it initially from my friends and family, once I started doing that they knew. Slowly they started to drift away from me one by one. Eventually the only person I saw was my roommate, and that was rarely. After some time I walked back to my computer to gaze at the spread buttocks for several hours when I found my roommate blocking access to my computer. He looked me squarely in the eyes and said "You've got a problem." Initially I protested, but deep down I knew he was right, so after a heated discussion I deleted all the images off my hard drive, peeled the stickers off the lid of my laptop and took the posters down from the walls.
I've been goatse-free for three years now and I do not want to revisit that part of my life ever again.
Re: (Score:3)
Not how the board game works. (Score:4, Funny)
duh (Score:4, Funny)
I was drunk first time I ever smoked.
Re:duh (Score:5, Insightful)
I was sober the first time I ever tried alcohol.
Re:duh (Score:5, Funny)
Sobriety, the gateway drug to all the others!
Re:duh (Score:5, Funny)
Well, believe me, I won't make that mistake again.
Additional story tag (Score:5, Insightful)
the reason is racism, exoticism, fear of unknown (Score:5, Informative)
granddaddy's granddaddy was a proper wifebeating drunk in ireland or germany. alcohol is a familiar. therefore it's ok
meanwhile, look at these mexicans and their loco weed! scary otherness! outlaw that stuff!
seriously. this is the reason marijuana is illegal in the usa:
http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/dpf/whitebread05.html [druglibrary.org]
Re:the reason is racism, exoticism, fear of unknow (Score:4, Informative)
Also 1920s: “Makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.” —H.J. Anslinger, Bureau of Narcotics
http://www.uccs.edu/~rmelamed/Physics%20of%20Life/Homepage/Marijuana%20and%20Racism.html
Re: (Score:2)
I couldn't gt [ast this sentences:
" When Professor Bonnie and I set out to try to track the legal history of marijuana in this country, we were shocked that nobody had ever done that work before."
That's complete bullshit. As such, I can't trust the rest.
Re: (Score:2)
"Give one of these Mexican beet field workers a couple of puffs on a marijuana cigarette and he thinks he is in the bullring at Barcelona."
Heh .. the average stoner who found himself in the bullring in Barcelona would go fetal and cry. It is not a "proactive" experience.
Re:Additional story tag (Score:5, Insightful)
If we're going to assume conspiracy, put down the DEA, prisons, and drug cartels as behind it too, since they all benefit (speaking of which anyone who talks about 'securing the border' but opposes legalization is an absolute tool).
I think the real reason is simply that too many people think that legalizing cannabis is condoning drugs and criminals and reefer madness and stupid potheads like Carl Sagan and will cause an unacceptable increase in crime and all this negative imagery, while outlawing alcohol is anti-freedom because it is your right to get drunk and its acceptable some people get flattened by drunk drivers in a free society. I'm not saying it makes any sense whatsoever, but I think it is a more plausible explanation than blaming alcohol and tobacco companies (and I've heard pharmaceutical companies blamed too) companies, unless you have evidence that it is actually happening. Not saying I'd be surprised, I know some of the original push involved paper industry money IIRC that didn't want competition from hemp fiber, just that I'd like hard proof it is corruption as opposed to politicians simply catering to irrationality.
Re:Additional story tag (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm certain there's a lot of insider influence, but I'd also agree there's a lot of "stupid" and "tradition" going on as well to maintain the status quo.
Re:Additional story tag (Score:5, Interesting)
I highly recommend Catherine Austin Fitts's three-part series called "NarcoDollars for Beginners" found on the Narconews.com web site (it's also mirrored all over, without permission, as "NarcoDollars for Dummies").
Re: (Score:3)
No they're not. Marijuana is too easy to produce in finished form. They'd have to continue to outlaw the private production of it, and that would be incredibly difficult for politicians to rationalize (much less enforce) once the drug itself was legal.
Alcohol and tobacco are easier to control because production of a high quality finished product is much more difficult.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. (Score:4, Insightful)
Anyone who's grown up around people with substance abuse problems already knows this. Everyone I know with drug issues started out with alcohol issues.
Re:Thank you, Captain Obvious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Which doesn't necessarily mean that alcohol is some magic gateway drug, (correlation does not imply causation) but that people with substance abuse problems naturally gravitate first to legal (and hence more easily acquirable) substances.
Re:Thank you, Captain Obvious. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Thank you, Captain Obvious. (Score:4, Insightful)
Not really.
Some drugs are gateway drug. Marijuana got this accusation because it's illegal, and as such often found with other illegal drugs.
and you are stretching the term gateway drug out of it's contexts.
That said, the DARE program mad eit a gateway drug.
Dare pushed the All Recreational drugs a Equally harmful and will ruin you lesson.
As such, when these kids grew up and saw that most people who used marijuana lead perfectly normal lives, they made that assumption about all drugs.
That is why DARE is a failure.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone who's grown up around people with substance abuse problems already knows this. Everyone I know with drug issues started out with alcohol issues.
Alcohol Issues?
When I was 16, I was buying wine & hard liquor in upstate NY using a fake draft card (back in the day). I didn't have any alcohol issues until my family moved to the South, where the legal drinking age was 21 YO. When my ~ 12 bottle (fifths) of imported NY hooch ran out, I had mixed results getting others (strawman) to buy liquor for me. One of the classmates I drank with shared some cannabis with me, and I switched over. From that time to this, I drink alcohol (always in moderation) on
Re:Thank you, Captain Obvious. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Sadly, sense like that contained in your post is entirely too uncommon.
I say this as someone who is completely against recreational drug use (including the drug alcohol) personally, but believe societal prohibitions on them are pointless, merit-less, and entirely without justification. I do, however, support mandatory treatment or punishment (depending on the circumstances) for people who commit crimes as a result of impaired mental function. The reason one cannot control themselves is irrelevant. If they c
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah,try crack and then let me know how your outdated hypothesis works out for you.
Some drugs change the brain chemistry. Some can go from quit functional in society to homeless crazy in short order.
This doesn't apply to pot, and some personality are more susceptible to abuse(based on dopamine and serotonin) but it isn't a catch all.
It's brain chemistry.
Re: (Score:2)
gateway (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:gateway (Score:4, Informative)
Bearing in mind that I *agree* with decriminalizing marijuana, you apparently don't understand how studies like this work. If 10% of people who use Substance A end up with Problem X but 80% of people who use Substance B end up with Problem X, there's reason to suggest a link. Yes, correlation is not causation and those aren't actual statistics; I'm speaking hypothetically here. My point is they didn't just randomly pick two events and abitrarily decide they are connected.
They could still be totally wrong, of course, but that's what they do the studies to find out.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
No. That's a completely uneducated view on how science works.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:gateway (Score:5, Interesting)
Case in point: in my home country of the Netherlands, marihuana is (semi-)legal and freely available. Guess what: while there are more people in the Netherlands who have at some point tried marihuana (per capita), the number of regular users is actually lower than in the USA. Furthermore, we do not have a significantly higher number of users of hard drugs either. Which makes sense: the American pushing pot is breaking the law at the risk of a stiff prison sentence. He'll be more likely to cheerfully sell you something more potent as well. In the Netherlands, licensed coffee shop proprietors enjoy a legal and profitable trade in soft drugs; they are unlikely to risk all that by selling hard drugs on the side (besides, they are checked on a regular basis).
It's not the drug itsef that's the gateway to the nastier stuff. It's the person that is selling it to you. Legalising soft drugs doesn't mean allowing a gateway drug into the hands of your youngsters, it means that you're controlling the gateway and making it less likely that kids come into contact with hard drugs.
Re: (Score:3)
But there's little rational thought involved in these decisions. The minister pushing this legislation is part of a c
Re: (Score:3)
studies also show that nearly 100% of hardcore drug users have previously tried water before moving on. the connection is there is no such thing as a gateway drug but every hysterical person on the planet seems to believe that there is.
But nearly 100% of non-users have also previously tried water. This means there is no correlation between water consumption and hardcore drug usage. That's not at all the same sort of relationship that this study finds between alcohol and drugs.
Re: (Score:3)
You have it completely wrong! It is bread that is the problem! Even terrorists have been known to eat bread before their attacks!
So, ban bread and all will be fine.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Just rhetoric, huh?
How are you posting this without using a gateway?
*ducks*
Re: (Score:3)
"Gateway" theory is still irrelevant (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Gateway" theory is still irrelevant (Score:4, Interesting)
98% percent* of people have taken caffeine at least once in their lifetimes. Clearly, it is the true gateway drug.
(* statistic made up for illustrative purposes.)
Re: (Score:3)
I would say that tobacco should be listed as a "the gateway drug" due to it being highly addictive and due to it's place in society and how society uses it. Due to it being highly addictive it changes ones psychological makeup prepping one for further addiction.
Alcohol can be very addicting, but marijuana is only as addictive as masturbation.
In my experience, pot heads who have never smoked tobacco do not go on to harder drugs, while those who have smoked tobacco have a higher rate of addiction to harder d
Re: (Score:3)
...and all of those could be said of masturbation as well. Or sex. Or eating sugar/chocolate/food. Or browsing the web. The basic fact is that anything that brings pleasure (and quite a few things that don't) can be addictive to those who are prone to addiction.
Such addictions have little to do with the inherent properties of their object, rather they are due to the manner in which they are used by the addict.
It is obvious to the educated (Score:5, Insightful)
It may be obvious that marijuana is relatively safe to anyone who actually knows about marijuana and alcohol, or cares to research it, but it isn't to those who don't. People who don't know about it are bombarded with media from the war on drugs and conservatives on how bad marijuana is. They really think smoking pot actually does cause harm to those around them, and it should be easy to understand why, with all of the top-down deception happening in the U.S. and other countries.
Re: (Score:2)
Pedantically speaking, smoking or burning anything causes some harm to anyone nearby. Lungs weren't really designed to inhale particulates.
Re: (Score:2)
Marijuana has not been shown to cause cancer, and has a much lower correlation with lung disease than cigarettes. While you are correct that there are some potential harms in smoking weed, they are no where near significant enough to demonize marijuana over. No one brings up the fact that car exhaust can c
Re: (Score:2)
What's with all the "Captain Obvious" Comments? (Score:3, Insightful)
Science is all about formulating a hypothesis, designing an experiment, performing it, and drawing reasonable conclusions which shape new hypotheses. We shouldn't be saying "WELL DUH," as if they shouldn't have bothered to do the study. Instead we should be happy that we have one more sample of interesting data than we had yesterday.
Also, this isn't the smoking gun that anti-prohibition activists might want. One potential conclusion is that prohibition is working, and that logically we should go ahead and outlaw alcohol and tobacco as well to prevent even more teens from becoming filthy marihuana smokers prone to reefer madness.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
alcohol legal at 21 (most states) / marijunana not (Score:2)
alcohol legal at 21 (most states) / marijunana not.
ok, c'mon... (Score:3)
Look I'm as willing as anyone to stipulate that the "war on drugs" has been a total bust and a criminal waste of resources. I've told my teenage daughter "the worst thing about pot -- the absolute worst thing -- is what the government can do to you if they catch you with it".
But.
Could the results have anything to do with alcohol being much easier to acquire than pot? This is not an apples - to - apples comparison, and wouldn't have been unless we had never repealed the eighteenth amendment.
Is alcohol really easier for KIDS to get than pot? (Score:2)
Sure, those of legal age can go into all kinds of stores, bars, or restaurants and get all the booze we want. But the fact that booze is regulated and sold by licensed establishments tends to keep sales to underage buyers fairly low. Sure, teens will still approach strangers to ask them to buy for them, but even that is being cracked down on these days.
The guy selling dime bags doesn't check IDs, and could easily be a friend or schoolmate that travels in the same social circles.
The only time when I have not
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree. Parents, or relatives, or parents of friends are much MUCH more likely to have alcohol at home than pot. Although this is only a single datapoint, I remember how old I was when I had my first drink -- 12 -- and what it was -- rye whiskey (I didn't like it) -- at a friend's house. Seriously, which is more likely in a randomly selected household -- that we kids had found a bottle or a bag?
It's true that weed is fairly easy to come by, and it's also true that people selling drugs probably don't
Re: (Score:2)
Cause it isn't grandma's first rodeo and she knows how much booze she has? (She's a grandma, not her first teen.)
Re: (Score:2)
Cause it isn't grandma's first rodeo and she knows how much booze she has? (She's a grandma, not her first teen.)
You're right. Furthermore, Grandma probably also knows about the trick of watering down the remainder. (Don't ask me how I know.) So you would need to make your samples small across multiple bottles (and mix it together, which I think was called "bilge water" when we drank it as teens -- nasty) or save up samples from Grandma's only bottle over a period of time, and then have a party. It helps if Grandma is gettin' a mite forgetful.
If you live in a state where alcohol is sold right off the store shelves
Re: (Score:2)
You may have a point there. I'm the only person in my family who has never smoked. My wife doesn't smoke, and my teenage daughter has so far -- without any coaching from us (we didn't feel it was necessary) -- resisted peer pressure to take up smoking. My sister, who has smoked non-stop since she was 13, now as an adult has a 13 year old foster kid who -- surprise -- just took up smoking.
Re: (Score:2)
1. Social science department gets grant from government and special interest groups to do a "study" which will prove something we know.
2. Scientists involved are careful to not make any logical fallacies of starting correlation is causation, but phrase it in such a way as to imply that to those who have difficulty with the concept, in order to get their name in the news.
3. When the study hits the media, all pretense of correlation is thrown out and it is touted as proving some
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Exactly. The proper definition of a "gateway drug" is whatever is easiest to acquire. Which usually implies that it's either legal or much less illegal (if you will) than alternatives.
Make caffeine illegal under penalty of death and legalize pot, and the picture would reverse.
Still Wrong (Score:2)
Chocolate.
Which reminds me... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Bullshit. (Score:2, Informative)
Lack of proper parenting, poor social skills, hopelessness, and bad luck are the real gateway drugs.
The substances are the symptom in most cases.
In my own personal experience, MJ was the *last* drug I tried.
pfff gateway drugs (Score:2)
Shocking... (Score:2)
Why hard drugs are hard. (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason the hard drugs exist is because of prohibition. If you have a black market you want the product to be as potent and easily concealable/transportable as possible. Back in prohibition times most alcohol was as high of a percentage as was easy to distill. The same with coke and heroin. Chewing Coca leaves or making tea are the preferred method of consumption in the south american countries where it is grown and legal. Smoking Opium is preferred over shooting heroin. In the US Caffeine is preferred in beverages. If caffeine was made illegal you can bet there would be a black market for it as a concentrated powder or pill. The reason it's easier to OD on hard drugs is due in part to how concentrated they are and how irregular the concentration of active pharmaceutic is.
Re: (Score:2)