Does 'Supersizing' Supershrink Your Brain? 283
Rambo Tribble writes "As reported by the BBC, the journal Neurology is set to release the findings of a study in Oregon on diet and brain shrinkage in Alzheimer's victims. The upshot is: a diet rich in vitamins and omega-3 fatty acids is beneficial; trans fat and fast food are detrimental."
split the difference... (Score:5, Funny)
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The way I like to think of it is, having a nice massage on waking, then going in to a gladiator match with lions that has sharp metal armor all over.
Gladiators got massaged to make them better gladiators, because that made them more entertaining to watch. I guess I'd rather watch a skinny person eat a burger than the alternative...
Remember kids: (Score:4, Funny)
Hemp has the perfect ratio of Omega 3, 6, and 9 fatty acids, so always eat your marijuana.
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It does if you're in the business of government, where prohibition rakes billions through your hands each year, putting you in the position to leverage that cash flow for personal gain.
In that case, why on earth would you give a damn about anything beneficial about marijuana OR hemp? (FYI, the US government doesn't recognize the difference, and for good reason. Money, money, and more money.)
I suppose you're going to blame DuPont.
And once again: correlation, not causation (Score:5, Insightful)
The study found that high vitamin levels in the blood correlated with higher mental abilities, while higher levels of trans fats correlated with lower. The study says nothing about fruits, vegetables, or fast foods. There was also no evidence to conclude that this correlation is causative. They did not take people with high levels of trans fats and put them on a fruit-and-vegetable diet. If that were done, and their scores improved, they yes, they would have been justified in making such a recommendation. As things are, they made no effort to even determine where those vitamins and trans fats came from. If you ate hamburgers and too vitamin pills, you'd have high vitamin levels in your blood too. Another possibility is that people with lower mental abilities tend to eat more junk food with trans fats. That would create the same results in the study.
So, repeat after me: correlation does not imply causation. If you don't know this, you have no business being a scientist.
Re:And once again: correlation, not causation (Score:4, Insightful)
So, repeat after me: correlation does not imply causation. If you don't know this, you have no business being a scientist.
...but are still well-qualified to be a journalist.
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The study found that high vitamin levels in the blood correlated with higher mental abilities, while higher levels of trans fats correlated with lower. The study says nothing about fruits, vegetables, or fast foods. There was also no evidence to conclude that this correlation is causative.
Indeed, there is every reason to assume that if there is a causative relationship, it runs in the other direction.
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It's well established the wealthy and more intelligent people eat better food.
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Further, TF Abstract only mentioned that there was 'a correlation'. I did not mention the strength of said correlation other than to start mumbling about 'multivariant analysis' which usually means they're trying to find a needle in a statistical haystack.
And I'm not paying $20 to get the article to read the whole thing.
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So, repeat after me: correlation does not imply causation. If you don't know this, you have no business being a scientist.
Actually correlation does imply causation, it may not be a correct hypothesis and it needs to be tested.
In my research (done in a laboratory with a bunch of scientists) if I see two things that are being tested correlate with each other, given a defined test scenario, the IMPLICATION is that they are related. I then need to go test this implication and find out if I was wrong or that I was right.
If I was to ignore every correlation as being a potential relationship, due to your stated rule, I be a pret
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That's right. Correlation is very useful when choosing subjects for research, but should never be used as justification for any action or policy. Correlations mean nothing by themselves; you have to find causative links before you can try causing the desired effect with the correlated cause. Oh, and once you find a causative link, it's worthwhile to determine the mechanis
Linking the results to Alzheimers seems dubious (Score:5, Insightful)
From TFA:
So they found that certain vitamins are beneficial to memory, but as none of their test subjects had Alzheimers there is no basis for any claim regarding the disease. Although I am curious what's in the actual paper (seriously, couldn't we wait a few days posting this until the actual paper is out?).
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So they found that certain vitamins are beneficial to memory, but as none of their test subjects had Alzheimers there is no basis for any claim regarding the disease. Although I am curious what's in the actual paper (seriously, couldn't we wait a few days posting this until the actual paper is out?).
No they did not find that vitamins are beneficial to memory! What they found is that people who have better memory also had more vitamins.
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This is standard "potential applications" justification for basic research. It's intentionally speculative. There's probably a line or two in the discussion section that says future experiments should be done on alzheimers patients. Journalists just pick these things up and run with them.
Live like an ape (Score:2)
Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just tell people to model their behavior after other great apes.
Do gorillas spend all day on a couch? Do chimps eat hamburger? Do orangoutangs worry about their weight?
If we have a better picture of how pre-civilized humans lived, we would probably have a better idea of what's good for us.
Of course, there is a complication in that the stone age begins well before the advent of homo sapiens. So we actually have evolved since the time of basic civilization. But I
Re:Live like an ape (Score:5, Funny)
I don't go into the woods too often but there's a pretty fat squirrel lounging under our bird feeder in the back yard...
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He's just trying to kill off his squirrels so he can get enjoyment from watching his birds feed. Hmmm. That brings up an interesting thought. Ever see a fat bird? They're eating the same stuff ...
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The Neolithic life expectancy at birth was 20 [wikipedia.org]. Granted that had a lot to do with the fact that living past 5 was extremely difficult.
So the point? Your health gains from eating nuts, berries and wild rabbit while roaming the plains will be outweighed by the lack of medicine, basic hygiene and your ability to not being eaten, impaled, stomped, infected or worse by something. To your point... by how much? How long would cavemen have lived with modern medicine and hygiene while still roaming around the woods w
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Oops, you're in for it, mate. You said "designed", not "evolved".
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"Do gorillas spend all day on a couch?"
Yes, gorillas spend most of their day sitting around, particularly the adults.
"Do chimps eat hamburger?"
Chimps are enthusiastic predators and eat meat whenever they can catch and kill something.
"Do orangoutangs worry about their weight?"
I don't know. The life expectancy of an orang in the wild is 30-45 years though.
"fast food"? (Score:2)
I code better eating less meat (Score:2)
I LOVE meat. Steak, hamburgers, brats, chicken wings - you name it.
My wife, on the other hand, has shifted to a pescetarian diet (like vegetarian + fish and dairy products). Which means *my* diet has shifted as well, in a much healthier direction.
Frankly - when I go a few days eating tuna and other healthy meals - I am happier and have much better concentration.
So, FWIW, that's been my experience... but don't come between me and a great rib-eye!
Breaking news! (Score:2)
Breaking news : junk food is junk!
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Insightful)
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By the same token, not getting enough of certain things can have bad consequences. It's a complicated balance and it's different for every person.
It is my personal theory that the correct diet for an individual is similar to whatever tribe they came from back before modern times when we had to eat whatever was available. Some ate a lot of meat, others mostly grains, some had only fruit, and still others had access to a variety of foods, etc. What is healthy for you depends on what type of tribe you are d
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My daughter has it much worse, though, because my wife is Scottish, Irish, French, and German, as best they can tell. Her family has been in Texas since the annexation, though, so there's a good chance all that has been absorbed and is now just Texan, or so I have come to understand.
Blood Sugar Spikes and Dementia (Score:3)
I believe that there is growing scientific evidence of a link between blood sugar spikes and dementia. I have read of scientists who hypothesize that one of the reasons older people get dementia is that their ability to moderate their blood sugar levels decreases as they get older. This seems perhaps to link in with TFA. Here is a preliminary survey [google.ca] of the scientific literature.
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Except democracy. You can't have too much democracy.
Except maybe the case of two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner...
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Exactly. Pure, literally unbridled democracy is just a form of tyranny. If a hundred million voters passing direct judgement on every item of business in the government never unjustly oppress some minority, it would be not only pure luck, but a denial of human nature. A constitutional republic is one way of limiting the democratic power of The People to protect individual persons.
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:4, Funny)
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You mean like Congress today?
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Good thinking! If we all just eat junk food and do whatever we want, there can't be any negative consequences! I'm glad there are people like you to show the way.
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Depends. If you exercise, and vary which places you visit for a dining experience, it can be quite healthy.
If you eat the exact same thing every day from McDonalds, for a month, do not move from the couch, except to use the bathroom, then yes, it can be quite unhealthy.
I think everyone is aware that fast-foods tend to be somewhat lacking in micro-nutrients.
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As someone who ends up eating more fast food that I would prefer, I agree with you to some extent. If you count calories and are generally active, you can eat fast food regularly. But you do have to watch out for the high sodium and high fat content in that food and that can make it very difficult to balance your meals on a daily basis. I also found that by cutting soft drinks down to "merely" three times a day, I lost ten pounds over a few weeks. So, the trans fats and salt is not the only culprit.
If y
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"sustain many vitamins and minerals with supplements,
most supplements do exactly nothing. Besides, the fast food you eat is fortified.
Eat more then you burn, you gain weight.
If you ate only 1500 calories a day, and you are a man, you will probably loose weight with no exercise.
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Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Insightful)
FALSE:
As it turns out, fast food is loaded with nutrients. That's not the problem... hell for the vast majority of Americans they get more then enough 'micro nutrients'. IT's the fat and sugars that are the problem.
But go ahead and believe what the unregulated, low quality controlled, vitamin industry tells you.
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Interesting)
Fast food, last I checked, had adequate levels of macro nutrients, but suffers from a lack of micro nutrients (the levels are too low to be considered 'good' enough as the sole source of food).
Here's a study detailing fast food / its lack of micro-nutrients and its effects on rats -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18718129
Granted, these are lab rats, which ave plenty enough problems as they are, but it does support my argument.
As for the 'vitamin industry,' I can assure you that I am a scientist, and view their claims with less credibility than you do (goes in the same pile as homeopathy or various cures for cancer via Royal Rife machines).
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"His two rules of eating: if it tastes good, spit it out."
That's why everything out of his power juicer is so delicious, eh?
The *REAL* phrase is "If you enjoy it, you can’t have it; if you don’t like it, you can eat all you want."
And it was penned by Mike Royko.
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If we all just eat junk food and do whatever we want, there can't be any negative consequences!
Yes, that was exactly the point of my comment. It's like how someone saying "It's okay to drive a car" is also *really* saying "It's okay to drive at 140 mph and disregard all other cars, FUCKIN' AY!!!!" Thank you for so eloquently clarifying what I really meant.
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If we all just eat junk food and do whatever we want, there can't be any negative consequences!
Yes, that was exactly the point of my comment. It's like how someone saying "It's okay to drive a car" is also *really* saying "It's okay to drive at 140 mph and disregard all other cars, FUCKIN' AY!!!!" Thank you for so eloquently clarifying what I really meant.
through a playground?
I don't see the connection. Anyway it has been proven that research causes cancer in rats and people with Alzheimers develop cravings for fast food.
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Funny)
Reminded:
Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing.
--Redd Foxx
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All I ask for is some proof that a healthy lifestyle will let me outrun Death, and I will prescribe to it. To date, no one has met my challenge.
I'd give up smoking (and the chance at cancer), only to drop dead from a heart attack after running for several miles.
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Giving up smoking can add ten years of being old to your life.
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Not only that, but not smoking a single cigarette in your life is no guarantee at all that you won't get cancer at age 10.
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Not only that, but not smoking a single cigarette in your life is no guarantee at all that you won't get cancer at age 10.
And never leaving your house is no guarantee that you won't die in a plane crash. (Not sure what the point was there but the logic was so pure that I felt the need to elaborate.)
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I think the enjoyment of life vs. length of life issue is an important one. Quality of life does matter, but sometimes getting what you want all the time doesn't actually improve your quality of life either.
If you get a burger now and whenever you want, you will probably enjoy it. However, people can be perfectly happy with less as well. Happiness tends to be a function of your relative situation, not your absolute situation. That means you can train yourself to be just as happy without fast food as wit
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:4, Informative)
No one? who the fuck do you ask, they guy in the mirror?
There is mountains of evidence that eating a healthy life style and reasonable exercise leads to longer life.
Does it mean you won't be hit buy a bus? no. Does it mean you WON"T have a heart attack? no. IT doesn't mean you are less likely to. And if you aren't running get a check up before you start, and start slow and short.
Smoking just doesn't substantially increase the odds you will get certain cancers, it also weaken the tissue in your spring, injures your heart, and a variety of other effect.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&term=physical%20exercise [nih.gov]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=eating%20healthy [nih.gov]
And that's just a start.
However, you are just making mental excuses so you don't change.
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Funny)
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Obviously it only took one to supershrink my brain.
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Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Informative)
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It's been well established that trans fats are bad, but what I'm wondering about is the omega-3s. There's a lot of dispute over whether all omega-3s are healthy, or just EPA and DHA. That is, are ALA-rich foods like flax, hemp, nuts, etc providing a valuable nutrient, or just fat?
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You can't live on walnuts, but you can live on acorns. That doesn't mean that walnuts aren't providing anything useful but it is interesting. Atkins said that if you were on a ketogenic diet you should eat avocado and macadamia as those foods have oils that are particularly needed then. Coconuts are also quite healthy for you.
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Moderation and limits (Score:2, Insightful)
N, the medical profession doesn't think that way. This is just a study.
What we don't see is people talking about moderation and limits. This society is all about extremes: binge or deprive oneself. Nothing about moderation. Nobody says, "Sure, it's alright to have a cheeseburger, fries and that orange cream shake (McD's are AWESOME) every once in a while; just not everyday.
It's the same with drinking alcohol. The only exception would be smoking (anything). Smoking is something that one should never do.
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Some things, like trans fats, are just bad for you. Others, like sugar and fats, are fine in moderate amounts, but we have evolved to really like them, and find them really nice to eat, so naturally now that we as a species are able to get a lot, we tend to overdo it. This over consumption of course is bad for you (but it tastes good). I love soda and greasy burgers and fried everything, but the fact is, they tend to have a lot more sugar/fat than you should be getting. And not everything that tastes go
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there is no such thing as western medicine.
Oh great, now you've made Hippocrates cry.
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Huh? This seems to be promoting eating smoked salmon and a nicely dressed salad –what's not to love?!
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I do not believe you. Could you please do us a favor? Conduct a study about it and share the results with us. ;)
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By eating organic cardboard and drinking distilled water you will not live any longer...
but it will seem like forever!
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That's why I usually skip the fries and soda when I eat at McDonalds.
Not only that... it's usually fun to watch their faces when you say you don't want fries. A lot of them look like they're debating whether to call security.
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I read somewhere once that fries are where most fast food restaurants really make their money. I guess that makes sense. Potatoes are a lot cheaper and easier to raise than cattle. They don't have as much personality, though.
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I bet they make more on the soda...with fries a close second.
(hence all the upselling when you order - note that the burger stays the same size, only the fries and soda get bigger when you 'upgrade')
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I bet they make more on the soda...with fries a close second.
That depends on how you do the accounting. Soda companies own the fast food franchises. The soda is set up to actually cost something in a franchise model and to cost nothing in a chain model...
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Excuse me, but have we determined, to any degree of certainty whatsoever, that actual cattle are involved in the production of McDonald's hamburgers?
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McDOnald hamburgesr are 100% beef.
Stop believe the hate and nonsense.
Try facts and critical thinking for a change.
Warning:
Critical thinking means never being abducted by UFOs, haunted, scared by big foot, or seeing the Loch Ness monster*. Also, May induce vomiting when watching 'documentarys' such as Fast Food Nation or Gasland.
*probability close enough to zero to you 'Never' in a colloquial form.
Re:Yeah, yeah...everything enjoyable is bad for yo (Score:5, Informative)
I've been out of the restaurant management business for about 5 years, but things couldn't have changed that much. It costs about 3 cents for the cup and about 10 cents on average to fill it (various size cups, not every refill is a full cup, etc). People get their initial fill, most people get one refill, few people get more than one. So, if we just assume everyone gets 2 refills, it costs 23 cents for your beverage, which they sell to you for anywhere from $1.50-$4 depending on the restaurant. That gets you a ~500% profit margin.
Fries also have a good margin, though there is a higher labor component, the cost of cooking them, keeping them frozen, lowered yield (waste, broken fries, etc). In fact, most fryer side orders are pretty profitable (a half dozen mozzarella sticks might sell for around $5, but you can buy a 4.5 pound case for around $11, which will yield about 10 orders).
The sandwiches aren't nearly as profitable, particularly the meat sandwiches, but the sandwiches are what get people in the door. A 1/3rd pound burger costs around 75 cents for the meat, 20 cents for the bun, 15 cents for the cheese, and up to another 25 cents if it is dressed. They need to be refrigerated, you lose yield (overcooked, fell apart, etc) and are relatively labor intensive (especially if you patty them yourself). For that $1.40 investment (not counting labor, yield, etc), you sell it for about $3.
Factor in that somewhere around a third of all of your revenue goes to labor and another 30-40% goes to food costs depending on your model. On top of that, you still have your overhead - mortgage/rent/property taxes, heating/cooling, gas/electric, etc. Profits are pretty thin in the fast food/diner/family restaurant market and without the profitability of the side orders, most of them can't stay in business for long (hell, most of these non-chain restaurants fail in the first year anyway). Upscale/fine dining is a whole different beast.
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That's why I usually skip the fries and soda when I eat at McDonalds.
Not only that... it's usually fun to watch their faces when you say you don't want fries. A lot of them look like they're debating whether to call security.
I do the same but never get such looks. I think the key is to say kind of the opposite, i.e:
"I'd like to have casgdbfu to drink and a plain sfsdhguio burger"
rather than
"I'd like to have a sbycukwa burger meal with a dzvhifdz drink, without fries".
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McDonald's fries have been trans-fat free for three years.
So in a couple more years, all of the ones that have been frozen in some warehouse for the past decade will finally get used up?
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Ironically, they went to trans fats to move away from, lard. thanks panicy health idiots!
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I've visited the USA and I can let you into the secret: Portion sizes.
Everything there is served in huge amounts compared to other countries.
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Oh, nonsense. If you go into McDonalds or Burger King or Wendy's, you will always find a 99 cent simple hamburger or cheeseburger on the menu. It's a pretty small portion representing a very limited number of calories. You can also get small helpings of french fries that are pretty parsimonious in amount, if not usually in price. Yeah, the super triple ultimo burger with collossal oveflowing fries is ridiculously huge, but that's not the only thing available.
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We have mistaken quantity for quality. Problem is, once you eat a lot of food you become addicted to eating a lot of food, and a small amount of quality food just becomes an appetizer. It's about learning good habits while young, and the reasons for them, too (so that you have some incentive to maintain them.)
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Not addicted.
It becomes a habit, There is a difference.
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Yes, and the difference is that your brain becomes resistant to glucose over time, which means it takes more to feel full, which means you eat more carbs, and then it takes more to feel full, so you eat more carbs... sugar rushes are addictive and wonder bread and sugar and the typical cracker are all essentially the same thing. Of course, the worst things you can eat that aren't just invented from stocks of chemicals made by putting other chemicals in vats and running currents through them are french fries
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Never had an English breakfast, have we...
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Everything? And to what other countries are you comparing? I'll let you into a secret: you only went to crappy chain restaurants.
Yeah, you missed 1% of the eating establishments entirely!
You probably went to the restaurants that everyone else goes to. You know, the ones that hire teams of psychologists that target two year olds to instil one thought in their brain, that their lives will be ever so much better if they eat lots of yummy french fries and drink gallons of coke.
You know, the ones raised by irresponsible parents that give in to the nagging demands of these young fast food connoisseurs. Those parents should be shot.
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Nope, everything. It's too fucking much.
Pretty much all plates in restaurant should be decreased 25%. min.
Or at least don't give lip to people who want to split a plate.
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"are supposed to be made of."
hahaha, what a stupid statement.
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Everyone has the right to be a retard!
If that's a revelation to you, then you're obviously new to /.
As for socialized medicine, I don't believe in it. I believe in faith healing, as I thought my original comment made clear.
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Post a pic.
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If being a vegan was so great, why did you quit?
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You can eat healthily and boringly for very little money, but if you want to eat quality food that is also interesting and healthy then it tends to get a bit more spendy. If you also want to eat a lot of it (when I'm doing a lot of manual labor I tend to really pack it down — and burn it off as quickly) then it becomes prohibitively expensive in a way that a carbohydrate bomb isn't.
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I feel better hearing your story, because chewing food every day with my jaw is regular exercise.