Simulated Mars Mission 'Returns' After 520 Days 201
On June 3, 2010, a team of six volunteers began the Mars500 experiment: they were locked into a cluster of hermetically sealed habitat modules for the duration of a simulated mission to Mars lasting 520 days. "During the ‘flight,' the crew performed more than 100 experiments, all linked to the problems of long-duration missions in deep space. To add to their isolation, communications with mission control were artificially delayed to mimic the natural delays over the great distances on a real Mars flight." The simulated mission has now come to an end. The crew managed to stay healthy and sane, and they've emerged from isolation to be reunited with their families. The ESA's Mars500 page has further details on the experiment, and they've posted a video summarizing the 'trip.'
Zero G (Score:2, Informative)
How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
OK, replying to myself. The first article shows a pic of the crew floating around on April 1st, but the second articke states "minus the weightlessness."
Oh, my brain will explode now!!!
Re: (Score:3)
Weightless on 1 April
Yeah, might wanna think about that date a little :)
Re: (Score:2)
Is that May Day?
Re:Zero G (Score:4, Funny)
It's Ascension Sunday.
Re: (Score:2)
What about the stress of hazardous flight? (Score:4, Interesting)
How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??
Mir and ISS have done that. This seems to be a psychological test regarding isolation. However without the extreme risk of actual interplanetary spaceflight the psychological data might be limited. The stress of such a risk has to have an effect.
Which make me wonder if candidates for a Mars mission should be "old school" astronauts, those with experience as test pilots and who probably flew combat missions as well, or who did night carrier landing (*), etc.
(*) Maybe its a myth but I once heard that during the Vietnam war the US Navy wired up some pilots to record vital signs related to stress. Pilots were more stressed during night carrier landings than on combat missions near/over Hanoi (a very hazardous area for these pilots).
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.
As bad as health degredation from being in space a short period of time is- wonder if they'll all come back from Mars blind, bent bones, muscles atrophied and carrying the mutant virus from "Species II"
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.
Valeri Polyakov, launched 8 January 1994 (Soyuz TM-18), stayed at Mir for 437.7 days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
I don't think anyone stayed in a space station for 520 days though.
Valeri Polyakov, launched 8 January 1994 (Soyuz TM-18), stayed at Mir for 437.7 days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight_records#Ten_longest_human_space_flights [wikipedia.org]
Also of note: Sergei Krikalev has spent 803 days, 9 hours and 39 minutes, or 2.2 years in space over the span of six spaceflights on Soyuz, the Space Shuttle, Mir, and International Space Station.
Re: (Score:2)
None of those professions have any experience with long term isolation and any resulting stress. Their coping mechanisms are based around dealing with missions at most a few hours long the effects and after effects of adrenaline for brief periods. On top of that, a Mars mission includes very little
Its not the piloting skills ... (Score:2)
So why should astronauts be pilots at all?
I could have phrased things better. I didn't really mean to suggest they should necessarily all be test pilots, that was more of a reference to what old school astronauts were. I think they should all have some sort of experience in extremely high risk activities where things go wrong and someone has to deal with it really really quickly. Preferably having actually experienced such situations. I think having experienced such situations and having dealt with them is what is the more important characteristic
Re: (Score:2)
Disclaimer: I am a former SSBN crewman, a missile fire control technician to be exact.
But that's the thing - pilots aren't the only people to have those reflexes a
Re: (Score:2)
(*) Maybe its a myth but I once heard that during the Vietnam war the US Navy wired up some pilots to record vital signs related to stress. Pilots were more stressed during night carrier landings than on combat missions near/over Hanoi (a very hazardous area for these pilots).
Makes sense. It's easier to dodge AA fire or a missile than to fix a bad carrier approach.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How did they simulate zero gravity and its adverse effects on the human body??
Why would you need to? On a long duration journey such as this you would design the craft to spin in order to simulate gravity. You would start off at a rotation rate that would give an Earth normal gravity. Then, over the course of the trip to Mars, you would reduce the spin rate, so that when the craft arrived at Mars, the crew would be acclimatized to Mars normal gravity. During the return trip, you would start off at a spin rate that emulates the gravity of Mars, and increase the spin rate so that w
Re:Zero G (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Zero G (Score:4, Insightful)
In that I mean that the participants still know that they are on earth, so why do I need to wait 6 minutes (guessing at a time delta here...) to get a response from 'earth' when I know that it shouldn't take that long.
Because it's part of the experiment, and they know it. Usually, factors like that are minimized in studies, but there isn't much you can do in this case.
Still, I agree that this isn't a very good test. One of the biggest factors on our sanity wasn't part of this test: fear. Even in low orbit, you know that a relatively thin layer of metal is all that protects you from death. If you have a major health issue, there are no ambulances to take you to the ER. Death literally surrounds you every moment you're out there, and living with that for nearly two years would likely take its toll.
In this study, you know you're monitored. If you lose containment, you're safe. If you have a heart attack, they will open the door and come get you. If your wife has a stroke, they'll let you out. Etc. I'd imagine that without knocking a random passerby on the head and waking them up on a fake spacecraft, it is extremely difficult to recreate the feeling of being out there.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I'd imagine that without knocking a random passerby on the head and waking them up on a fake spacecraft, it is extremely difficult to recreate the feeling of being out there.
FUN
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they could, without telling the occupants ahead of time, have mission control tell them there has been a nuclear war and not to leave the compound until they can get a team out to safely extract them. Or zombie apocalypse. Actually a more believable scenario could be contrived by building the habitat down a mineshaft and claiming there has been a cave-in.
Re:Zero G (Score:5, Interesting)
I was thinking just drop them in the Ocean at a deep depth to add to the simulation. There's no-one coming for you in an emergency in that case, and there's a very real possibility of system failure.
Yo Grark
Re:Zero G (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
I think being a submariner is probably way closer to the type of danger involved then you're giving it credit for. There are many different grades of space-craft puncture - it's not like one nick and the whole thing blows up explosive-decompression style.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I think that space is much more forgiving that deep pressures. In a submarine, your vehicle is under huge pressures and a small leak could turn catastrophic due to high pressure water streams coming through into the ship. A space vehicle however never really has to deal with more than 1 atmosphere pressure, and usually a lot less as the atmosphere in a spacecraft is made thinner with higher oxygen content to maintain proper partial pressure. Due to th
Re: (Score:3)
My memory is a little hazy on the specifics, but I will share this too. Every now and then, the boat would send some people over to the flooding trainer. they covered the basics on how to apply various flood stoppage techniques. If I recall correctly, they certainly didn't recommend putting your hand/body into any fluid streams. I think the primary con
Re: (Score:3)
Why do you think that? Do you yourself panic when you might be out of range
Re: (Score:2)
Do you yourself panic when you might be out of range of an ambulance in case you have a heart attack? I personally have spent 30 days crossing an ocean alone in a small boat, separated from the sea by 3mm of steel. If I had had a major medical emergency I would have likely died but I was not afraid during that time, and I would not be afraid to do it again..
I suppose there is an element of control to it. I've been camping in places where death is a real possibility, and you're right- I didn't fear the entire time that if I were to break a leg, I would certainly die before somebody found me.
Perhaps its similar to how one can be perfectly fine driving a car, but flying in a plane can be harrowing. I've also noticed personally that I'm more tense while riding as a passenger in a car than while driving. Stop signs seem to approach so much faster when it's not m
Re: (Score:2)
Of course it can. There are bathrooms.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
" Space veteran Sergei Krikalyov, who has spent a record 803 days in orbit, told Reuters: "It's useful but, sitting here on Earth, it won't solve real problems of long human exposure in space." "
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/03/us-russia-mars-isolation-idUSTRE7A22YD20111103 [reuters.com]
Life thretening situations? (Score:2)
I totally agree with you!. The psychology of the situation is flawed. Consider the following situation...
One of the test subjects has a serious life threating situation, say a heart attack or a stroke. He needs much more care than can be provided in the test environment. Do the people running the experiment just let him die or stop the experiment to help him? I'll bet they would not let him die, it's just human nature to do something if it is possible.. The subjects of the experiment know that the ex
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's still different though. It's not like a space missions is totally uncontrolled. The Apollo astronauts knew it would take 3 days to get to the moon as long as the ship was functioning correctly. And it had been done enough times before that as long as the ship was functioning correctly this would be the case.
Now while it's true that a Mars mission would be a definite "first" it's not like the trip is not well understood, given the volume of probes we send there.
Which is quite different to "you are tra
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Of course it's a simulation and thus there are differences to the real thing.
However, things like this tend to look differently from the inside than they do from the outside. The emotions of being trapped in a confined space for an extended time are not entirely rational, and if you are inside something for months you can lose track of where exactly you are, even if some part of your brain still "knows" that you are all safe.
It's as close as you can get with all the various other conditions (like the consta
Re: (Score:2)
As much as I want to get a mission to Mars going, I have to agree.
There's a HUGE difference in the stress involved in being locked in a room where you know if you freak out the experiment will end and you can get out and go home, and being locked in an actual spacecraft where if you freak out opening the door kills you and everyone else on board.
That said, this IS about as close as we're going to get to such a simulation without doing something mad-scientist insane (ie, rigging the experiment so that it can
I know there will be a lot of jokes... (Score:5, Insightful)
520 days is definitely enough to complete a round-trip Mars mission. This experiment suggests that you can successfully go "there and back again" without making your astronauts lose their mind.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, these specific astronauts. I wonder if they'd all be prepared to do the real thing now, or if once was enough?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
This is not the first time they made this experiment. The first two times it failed.
Re: (Score:2)
On one side, the stress of knowing that if anything breaks you'll evaporate in space could break your sanity. On the other, knowing you'll be the first person in another planet should help on not breaking your sanity. On the third side, deciding who'll be the first to touch down on Mars and becoming a world symbol can produce a murderous individual.
So swinging between paranoia and megalomania. Sounds healthy.
Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes... (Score:5, Insightful)
While I agree, there's one important psychological factor this study left out, and that's the potential fear that you may not make it back. I don't know how they'd be able to successfully simulate that.
Re: (Score:2)
That risk existed on every space shuttle flight. Doesn't seem to have been a problem.
Re: (Score:2)
How many space shuttle flights have lasted over 500 days? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the total is 0. It is very possible for stress to build up over time, for fears to increase over time. In the case of the Mars trip, I would think the farther you got from Earth (and any chance of help being sent to you), the more it would weigh upon your mind.
Is there a list of what they tried to do?. (Score:2)
As in, how to invoke panic in the team? Like how many times if any did they suffer electrical/comm/breather outages? And do it unscheduled?
With 520+ days I can assume you could totally not have any contact with them for three weeks or more on purpose to see the effects. Cruel perhaps, but we don't have a great understanding of how people react. This looks a like a nice first step.
Re: (Score:2)
But the participants still know it's a simulation with help on the other side of the door if something potentially dangerous occurs.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Man, that was a good one. If I hadn't already posted on this one, I'd mod you up. ;-)
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps if they had to deal with LSD randomly being put in their food they might be able to simulate the potential fear that they might not make it back.
Actually think they should have drugged one person every now and then to simulate someone loosing it.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure that wouldn't reasonably be countered by the adrenaline/motivation of the significance of the mission. First humans on another planet? Does it get bigger than that ever?
In fact, I'd almost think that the long term effects of this motivation/stress might be even greater than the fear-factor.
We know that from history (Score:3)
Through history, there were a LOT of voyages where the potential not to make it back was strong. We already know humans can handle that kind of thing.
What has not been done as much before is a very small group of people confined to a small space for a long time. Even on old sailing ships you could look at the sea. Submarines are not out at sea that long.
I personally would jump at a chance to go even if the chance of making it back was 0%. I'm sure there are many others like this...
Re: (Score:2)
I personally would jump at a chance to go even if the chance of making it back was 0%. I'm sure there are many others like this...
There probably are... ... but it is easier to think you'd be fine going when there is no chance- then when there is a chance.
I'm sure a lot of people would want to go- but if they were given the chance and had to wait a while before going- it would sink in with every pleasurable even on earth "I may never get to do this again".
I suspect a lot of people willing to go on such a mission would develop cold feet long before training for the mission would conclude if there were no chance of getting back.
- but sti
Re: (Score:2)
IMO the most important study is the combination of the two.
Re: (Score:2)
While I agree, there's one important psychological factor this study left out, and that's the potential fear that you may not make it back. I don't know how they'd be able to successfully simulate that.
A friend spent three years working in Antarctica. Some of the people he worked with didn't make it back after they got lost in a snow storm and were never seen again. None of them started chopping people up with an axe.
Re: (Score:2)
You can't even pretend. Not in any first-world country. Illegal without informed consent, which voids the usefulness.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Nonsense. It was not valid and even a waste of money.
British sailing Man-of-Wars would be out of contact with land for months at a time. American Whalers reported being at sea for three years in pursuit of the South Sea sperm whales. Those men did perfectly fine. These ships sometimes had hundreds of people and the men did not go bat shit insane.
No, there is far too much molly-coddling and concern for people's feelings in these matters. Get a small group of professional men together and Mars will be ea
Re: (Score:3)
These ships sometimes had hundreds of people
might possibly be the reason why
the men did not go bat shit insane.
When you get to hundreds of people, you now have a small community. Living in 'isolation' with 500 people for 3 years is night and day compared to the psychological experience of living in isolation with 5.
Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes... (Score:4, Informative)
I've actually lived in circumstances somewhat resembling those of this simulation - as a SSBN crewman. And let me assure you, people do indeed go bat shit insane under those conditions. The ships you so admire kept their crews under control with a combination of brutal discipline and extremely heavy physical work, something unlikely to be tried today, singly or in tandem.
Re: (Score:2)
What extremely heavy physical work can you do regularly on a sub? Did they make you haul heavy stuff from one end to the other and back, or put you on an exercise machine with orders to do 500 reps or what?
Re:I know there will be a lot of jokes... (Score:4, Interesting)
British sailing Man-of-Wars would be out of contact with land for months at a time. American Whalers reported being at sea for three years in pursuit of the South Sea sperm whales. Those men did perfectly fine. These ships sometimes had hundreds of people and the men did not go bat shit insane.
That is just wrong. Those ships were not riding the seas for three years with no contact with land. They had to stop and times to provision, unload cargo, perform repairs that would require calm waters and materials from land. So perhaps they were away from"home" for three years, but natives in the south pacific may from time to time had blue eyed babies. There was also rampant "buggery", discipline through fear and violence and death was treated a part of the risk, not the exception. Out of a hundred crew members, if you lose one or two on a cruise you just re-hire in port or just make do. Lose a crew on a 5/6 man space mission has way more impact on every aspect of the mission.
Someone else mentioned subs that go on patrol for 5-6 months as a closer example to this experiment. In that I slightly agree, but 5-6 months is not 520 days. Subs are equipped with some of the best food products for meals, vast media libraries, and a military structure that (on the surface) sets a standard of behavior. No navy has tried to run a sub for 2 years non stop underwater. Now that may could close to an ideal on earth experiment.
It would be easy to say "just send em up and see what happens", but when you are talking Billions of dollars invested with no direct return? I can understand a step wise approach. Whaling ships were a lot cheaper to build (thus lose) then a Mars spacecraft.
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, that's less likely to happen. Most likely is that one of them would go batshit insane and the mission gets aborted.
The primary reason is humans are social creatures, and interactions with others are necessary for survival (it usually happens often enough for most people that no on
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But where is the 'And how is my newborn test tube offspring doing?' when they came back?
cosplay (Score:5, Funny)
They so should have greeted the emerging "astronauts" wearing gorilla, chimp, and orangutan masks.
Re: (Score:3)
In Soviet Russia, damn-dirty-apes control YOU!
(guinea)Pigs Innnn Spaaaaaacee!!!! (Score:2, Funny)
>> they were locked into a cluster of hermetically sealed habitat modules... ...lined with newspaper, and full of wood shavings and exercise wheels.
international crew? (Score:3)
Unfortunately there's one big flaw in this experiment. The crew consisted of "three Russians, one Chinese and two [other] Europeans", which only demonstrates that Eurasians are capable of living together in that limited space for that period of time. We still don't know if an American could get along with them for that long. :)
Re:international crew? (Score:4, Funny)
Doesn't matter. You want the launch craft as light as possible, so you wouldn't send an American anyways. :)
Re: (Score:2)
We could send Barack Obama. Europeans seem to love him!
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, but that is because he isn't really an American.
/ it's a joke guys- relax.
Re: (Score:2)
Ahhh, that's a good point. How do we know he's really human? Has he submitted to a DNA test to prove it?
Oh, I remember this episode (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Haha that's the first thing I thought of XD
Just ask Nelson Mandela how he got on. (Score:2)
But if you want a great example of how bat shi
We are fighting the last war (Score:2)
Robots are getting so good, that the need for manned exploration of places like Mars is past it's prime. We could be drilling for water on Europa and mapping Io and many more mission if we saved on manned exploration of Mars. We could have a nuclear powered glider swooping around Mars at low altitude gathering data. The need for humans in places that are dangerous to them is moot. Robots can do this for less.
It's a hoax! (Score:5, Funny)
I think this is all a hoax. I think they really went to Mars.
What about the food? (Score:2)
Everyone mentions zero-g given human psychological nature I think a bigger issue is food. They clearly had fresh greens and 6 massive freezers and as much again in another room if you watched the video. They had bread, etc. They wouldn't have ANY of this in space.
Food has a major impact on our psyche and mental state and I'm not just talking about the nutritional value. They should have been required to drink packet sludge through tubes.
All-Male Cast? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In addition going beyond the phsyical having a mixed crew for such a long duration introduces even more potential psychological factors that can result in failure of the mission.
You guessed right! A previous attempt was made with a woman on crew and...well the psychological factors caused a guy to snap.
Capricorn Two is a go... (Score:2)
Fake Mars mission and no one mentions Capricorn One???
I'm not sayin.. I'm just sayin...
The first Twilight Zone episode (Score:2)
"Where Is Everybody?"
The writers thought a solo person would go crazy in 484 hours, 36 minutes.
Disneyland (Score:2)
They should turn this into a "Mission to Mars" ride at Disneyland.
Although the wait in line might take quite a long time.
Re: (Score:3)
That's beyond the scope of this experiment.
Between Mir and ISS, we already have some pretty good data about the physiological impact of medium-term weightlessness.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You have to start somewhere, this is still a valuable data point. Integrated "test" is hard to do without actually doing the real thing so... Just my $0.05
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
That is quite presumptious of you- he could be a Kiwi. I think $0.05 (NZD) is approximately $0.02 (USD).
This is an international community.
Re:sorry, but no (Score:4, Insightful)
No, this really is how you "begin to measure the mental strain". First you test to see whether it's possible for them to survive a simulation of just the isolation and confinement, but without the weightlessness and danger. If-and-only-if that test goes well, you proceed to the next step (whatever that might be).
Re: (Score:3)
Re:sorry, but no (Score:4, Insightful)
And the Stanford prison experiment was nothing like actual prison, but somehow people were still psychologically effected in the same way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
I'm married.
I would SO volunteer to get locked away for two years.
Re:Newlywed? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, I don't get that either. When I was single I would've signed up for a one-way trip to Mars, or a year-long stay in Antartica, or whatever in a heartbeat. Now, I wouldn't even take a job with lots of travel unless she is okay with it. Why create strong emotional bonds with someone only to turn around and not see them for years?
But in a similarly thousands of military men keep popping out kids during "war time" knowing they will likely be redeployed shortly and won't see them for years, if ever. Why would you do that? Why would you put that kind of burden on your wife? Why intentionally create children if you aren't going be there to support them and enjoy them. I just don't get it.
Re: (Score:3)
if you aren't going be there to support them and enjoy them
You don't have kids, do you?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
520 / 28 = 18.6
I don't think the men would have survived,
Re: (Score:3)
* Reason for Science:
There are some thing a robot cannot do. Humans are more adaptable and can travel more than a few feet a day.
* Reason for money:
Being the nation(s) with a manned presence would probably help any claims to any potential resources found- more so than a robot- and a manned expedition would be more dynamic- no slow communications between so resources would be found easier.
* Reason for status:
Big national status symbol (which does help national pride and presitge with other nations).
* Reason
Re: (Score:2)
There is actually a big difference. Most of the slashdotters access the back pages of a sears catalogue.
Sears doesn't yet deliver catalogs to space capsules.
Re: (Score:2)
Tried it before, things got a little sexual assault-y, that's why there was an all-male crew this time.