Iran Tried and Failed To Launch a Monkey Into Space 272
Medevilae writes with a recent report from PopSci's dedicated 'space monkey' news feed that "When Iran indefinitely suspended its plans to launch a monkey into space earlier this month, it was actually because they had already tried and failed. Iranian Deputy Science Minister Mohammad Mehdinejad-Nouri told state media that the Kavoshgar-5 rocket carrying a capsule with a live monkey launched during Shahrivar, which is the Iranian month spanning August 23 to September 22, but the launch was not publicized because it did not accomplish all of its mission objectives. Assuming one of the objectives was to safely carry the monkey to space and back, things don't sound good for the monkey."
Failed to launch a monkey? (Score:5, Funny)
They failed to launch a monkey?
Does that mean Ahmadinejad is still on Earth?
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Re:Failed to launch a monkey? (Score:5, Informative)
To the mods, that is not racist, Ahmanedijad, or however you spell that fucktards name, is the only Persian I have that opinion of. Given I've run into quite a few Persians (Iranians) with that opinion of him also, I wouldn't call that racism, just an idiot who likes to wave his arms around like a fool... and fling poo.
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Ahmadinejad is a puppet of the Republican Guard. He's there to spread their influence into the government, which was why the election was rigged (in a very comical way, yet with tragic results for the people of Iran.) Don't even begin to think Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is in any way the ultimate authority anymore - the Republican Guard have been replacing key figures in the circles of government with their people for years, sidelining the clerics.
Quite a lot of good information came out during
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Even the US space program, with a pretty darn good track record, still loses the occasionaly probe or shuttle.
And we did our share to deplete the surplus population of monkeys while we were developing it, too.
Know-how is only part of the equation (Score:3)
It's hard to understand how Iran or any other country with the same level of technology have trouble reverse-engineering and producing systems that were first built in the 60's. Iran like all the other 2nd or 3rd tier countries when it comes to developing technology have more than enough scientists and engineers (most of whom were educated in the West) capable of working on this type of technology.
Reverse-engineering and re-building up to specs (including testing in - duh - adequate testing facilities) is not cheap and it is extremely time consuming. There are a lot of qualified scientists in many countries, but they are forced by necessity to carry out experiments with a higher risk of failure. Without the wherewithal with which to carry their R&D to a degree sufficient to minimize error, one might as well ask them to re-build Persepolis with nothing more but spoons and silly putty mixed with bu
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I wasn't aware that comparing a Middle Eastern person to a monkey was racist. I was under the impression that comparing someone to a monkey was racist when the subject was black.
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Half way through your post I though you were going to say it is racist to the monkeys and I was like "Yhea, that's right, actually they are the offended party no matter to which particular human they are compared to"
Pray for Mojo ... (Score:2)
I can't wait to eat that (now toasted) monkey!
And (Score:2)
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I'm actually wondering why launch a monkey at all. Or even a chimp. I think we're pretty sure at this point that no one is going to die from the space vapors or the orbiting hordes of vacuum leaches. What sort of telemetry do they get from a monkey that you can't get from a sensor package?
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I'm actually wondering why launch a monkey at all. Or even a chimp. I think we're pretty sure at this point that no one is going to die from the space vapors or the orbiting hordes of vacuum leaches. What sort of telemetry do they get from a monkey that you can't get from a sensor package?
Shit return...
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Iran doesn't appear to be reusing old American or Russian vehicles (though they do seem to be using a Russian rocket), but actually building one of their own. A new vehicle needs to be tested; although there may not be "space vapors" or "vacuum leeches", there are still plenty of hazards in space that a vehicle needs to be able to handle.
Using a monkey is a basic safety check: can the vehicle deal with said hazards well enough that something with very similar physiology to a human can survive a trip to spac
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It always strikes me as funny that a state that has no problem imprisoning, torturing and murdering people feels the ethical imperative to put a monkey in space first.
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All the stuff that isn't published by the states that HAVE launched lifeforms successfully.
Oh, and all the stuff about the return. That's important too.
Re:why launch a monkey (Score:2)
Because it's a macho thing to "ignore/cover-up/fake sensor data". With a monkey you can "sorta pretend it is really an astronaut", it makes people get just a tad more serious if someone signs off and then it still goes wrong. If you think someone was playing games you simply say "Show me the monkey!" Bonus Points if it listens to Peter Gabriel on the way up.
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You would hope that PopSci, and all the other major news organizations that reported on this would know that a chimp is not a monkey.
I think even the dumbest journalist should know that a chimp isn't a monkey.
However, I don't know that Iran ever said what species they were launching. It could be there is no difference in translation and monkey/ape don't have seperate words.
In Iranian, monkey/ape/woman are the same noun. Even mullahs care about cute little monkeys - they might not have risked one of those.
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Gosh... (Score:5, Funny)
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Everybody hopes it's Davey. That guy is a supreme fucking prick. I'd strap him to the top of the rocket.
recycled joke time. (Score:5, Funny)
Where'd the monkey take his vaction? All over Tehran!
What color were the monkey's eyes? Blue. One blew north, the other blew south....
Iranian NASA. Needs Another Simian Astronaut
monkey see, monkey do (Score:2)
Who's the Jerk who sold a bunch of monkeys to Iran ?
Bad News (Score:2)
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Iran's goal for space exploration, and all of their technological innovation for that matter, is to force everyone in the universe to convert to their horrible religion or die... I for one hope that they keep on failing.
Cue Robot Chicken! (Score:2)
Anybody monkeying (groan) with the software? (Score:3)
Just wondering if some embedded controller somewhere had been hacked. It seems the Iranian space program would be an obvious target for some unfriendly foreign government to try to cripple. Even if (when?) the Iranians get the bomb they'll need some means of delivering it.
I would imagine it'll be too big to send via diplomatic pouch and their air force is completely outclassed by their main adversaries in the region (Israel and Saudi Arabia). (I don't know if those countries air forces could knock down a low-flying cruise missile, I'd think the cities and oil installations on the gulf might be indefensible). Despite having a few subs, I'd imagine the U.S. Navy tracks them very closely, still a short range attack by mini-subs or suicide speedboat might be possible.
So that leaves space. With their "military" space program being watched very carefully, it appears there will be some sort of ABM system covering U.S. Allies and Europe before they have an intermediate range missile capable of delivering a nuke. That's where their "civilian" program could conceivably come into play. A nuke placed IN ORBIT could go the "long way around" thus avoiding the theater defenses currently being built. Of course the U.S. has anti-sat weapons but they may not cover every approach especially if the weapon deorbits before completing even one revolution. (And it's pretty clear that the U.S. doesnt have the specially equipped F-15 fighters all over the world to cover its allies.).
Finally, who's to say that the U.S. will even know what to shoot down? The Iranians may say they've just launched a monkey into space only to reveal later (maybe MUCH later) that the capsule carrying the presumably now-dead monkey actually has a nuke instead. Even if the U.S. decided to shoot on sight any Iranian "satellite" that started acting funny over the U.S. mainland, it could be too late. An EMP blast before the ASAT weapon gets to it could prove pretty devastating.
That, by the way, is why the Outer Space treaty was put into place; having nukes in orbit was far too destabilizing and would have led to the world being just seconds away from WWIII (instead of the current approximately 30 minutes). Of course if the Iranians are going to ignore the non-proliferation treaty, who's to say they'll honor any others?
So there's a real incentive to deny the Iranians access to orbit. Anybody writing a James Bond script about this?
How many monkey virgins does he get? (Score:2)
I'm not sure what the exchange rate is.
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Re:But fear the nukes! NOT! (Score:5, Funny)
Austrailia, if there is one location that if an Old/Elder God were to actually exist it is that god forsaken continent. The continent where even rabbits can turn into an ecosystem destroying menace, dogs become child eating beasts and spawned creatures so outlandish that professionals refused to believe were real till a specimen was captured alive (platypus).
Mark my words, that military spending is well deserved. Australia will laugh when the giant stone cover (Ayers' Rock) lifts up off of the casket of Vampire Cthulhu.
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I thought that was Guam. Darn, they really were just frogs?
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Fear the container ship... it doesn't move as fast, but it can conceal plenty of shielding....
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No, they're just sending a message. Every since that stupid "Axis of Evil" speech from George Dumbass, Iran has been freaking out over the possibility of U.S. invasion. Developing nukes and launch capacity is their way of saying to the U.S. and Israel "Don't even THINK about it."
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Yeah, that's the ticket, the Iranian regime isn't evil, the West MADE them be evil. Those sneaky Westerners with their emphasis on human and women's rights, freedom from slaughter of homosexuals. Why next, they'll even be making it legal to be any religion they like...dirty sneaky Westerners.
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When GWB made his speech in 2003, the President of Iran was a reformist moderate named Mohammad Khatami [wikipedia.org]. Khatami had made many reforms in the country, had sent official condolences to the U.S. after 9-11, and was even talking about establishing regular diplomatic relations.
After GWB's moronic Axis of Evil speech, all diplomatic ties were cut off, Iran began to actively pursue nuclear weapons, and in the next election, anti-U.S. hardliner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was elected.
Good work George.
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The Iranians were trying to develop nuclear weapons long before GWB came on the scene. They've been terrified of an American invasion since the 1979 revolution.
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and yet, 'The West' (I'm a westerner) fears Iran can strike Europe and the US with nukes?
LOL!
They are indeed able to strike the west with nukes. However, their ability to strike with monkeys is seriously in doubt.
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Saudi Arabia, also nominally an ally of ours- and don't forget they just had one of the ambassadors of that country slain.
Tried. Allegedly. Not succeeded.
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And they'd do it once, because if Iran ever actually launched a nuclear strike against anybody, within 12 hours, Tehran and Qom would be glowing craters.
And I think they know it. At the moment, the growing crisis appears to be between Khamenei and Ahmadinejad, in no small part because of Ahmadinejad's extremist language surrounding foreign policy. It's got to the point where Khamenei is even proposing to do away with an elected president [cnn.com].
I have a feeling that Iran is very soon going to be too busy with in
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How many countries just rely on someone else to do the space thing for them?
The monkey space thing? Roughly 200.
Re:Congratulations for trying! (Score:5, Insightful)
Orbital rockets can easily be repurposed to ICBMs
Home brewed nuclear reactors are a good step on the way to manufacturing nukes.
Having a dictatorship ruled by religious fundamentalists of the worst kind is, when combined with the above, a good starting condition for world war 3 or at the very least an actual nuclear war.
Not to be paranoid or anything, but it's pretty damn obvious that they want some serious military tools as a byproduct of their Glorious National Proudness Programs.
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I would not call another country getting nukes a precursor to WW3 if anything it is a preventative measure.
Sure one country having nukes could start WW3, since it now holds all the cards and can do whatever it wants to other countries without fear of losing but in a very real way multiple countries having nukes prevents WW3 because either everyone is afraid of using them and there is no war or everyone/some of them use them and there is no war just mass genocide.
"Having a dictatorship ruled by religious fun
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I know you're trolling, but:
"Having a dictatorship ruled by religious fundamentalists of the worst kind"
Yes I also worry about the USA, a very frightening country.
GWB is not in office any more...
Also, honestly I must agree with the GP. There is already enough deterrant in the world. The US is not the only possessor of nukes. Iran wants nukes, has a stated goal of wiping Israel off the map (who also has nukes, whether or not it's an official position). WTF do you think is going to happen? The only real reason Israel has not been overrun is because they have a MAD device. If Iran gets one they almost certainly will attempt a first str
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Eh? If nukes didn't exist we'd just go back to the old way of doing that much damage. Massive firebombing.
People get all weird when it comes to nukes.
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Cause we don't have the ability to firebomb 1000 cities in 30 minutes.
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I think that, given modern standards for how many civilian casualties are allowed before its considered a war crime, as well as modern precision targeting technology, Dresden-style indiscriminate firebombing would be just as unacceptable as nuclear bombing.
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I would not call being slightly sarcastic as trolling, and you very well might have a president even more fanatically religious then GWB in a fairly short time.
And besides there is only one country I know of that has ever proven that it is irresponsible enough to not only use Nukes but to use them against civilian populations.
But if Israel and Iran are fighting and only one of them has nukes then there really is not much of a deterrent where they are concerned.
I too would prefer nukes did not exists but as
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What evidence do you have that Iran would almost certainly attempt a first strike?
Iran's rulers are well aware that any attack they launched on Israel would receive an overwhelming response. I don't buy into the idea that Iran's rulers are a bunch of manic religious nuts that will suicide their entire country just to kill a bunch of Israelis.
Sure, they don't like Israel, but their biggest concern is maintaining their own position of power. They see nukes as a deterrent to keep outside forces from removing t
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I think you should take some time, live in Iran for 5 years, then switch and live in the US for 5. I'd be curious if you'd consider the US a "dictatorship ruled by religious fundamentalists of the worst kind" after that.
Your other argument is highly flawed - having 1 nation with enough Nukes to destroy the world.. yeah that's bad. However we don't need Iran to step in and make sure the other guys don't nuke. We already have France, Britain, US, China, Russia, Pakistan, India, etc etc. At a point there's
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Yes but would France, Britain, US, China, Russia, Pakistan, or India step in to save Iran from its enemies?
I would not consider a country simply trying to not have to rely on other countries and be at a huge disadvantage against them anything other then logical, even if we would be better off if they simply accepted their inferior fate or all nukes simply did not exist.
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In the format of one of the other posters who couldn't take his remark in perspective: I think you should take 5 years, go an live with someone who makes a living keeping women hooked on heroin and offering them out for sex and then see if you still think he's scum. In other words, think first and comment later.
His point was to highlight a typical western, especially American, view that they can accurately and fairly define who should or shouldn't be allowed to own WMDs. No one, including du
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You've got it backwards.
ICBMs can easily be repurposed to launch something like Sputnik.
Generally, this sort of thing is the side effect of military projects. If they try to tell you different, they are probably lying.
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And well, ballistic missiles doesn't need to go into orbit, just achive a ballistic trajectory, if you however have orbital capability you suddenly can develop weapons that goes under the fancy name of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment_System [wikipedia.org] which to be fair, scares the shit out of me even though I live in a region that would never be a nuke target, an
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Suuuure - religious fundie muslims are going to nuke the holy land.
You DO know it's holy to them, too, right?
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Suuuure - religious fundie muslims are going to nuke the holy land.
You DO know it's holy to them, too, right?
They take a long view - sure, it'll be hot for a few centuries, but then we'll move right in. Not necessarily us or our children or our children's children, but our descendants will and that's all that matters.
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Suuuure - religious fundie muslims are going to nuke the holy land. You DO know it's holy to them, too, right?
Nothing holy to them about Tel Aviv...
Re:Congratulations for trying! (Score:5, Informative)
How many countries just rely on someone else to do the space thing for them?
Well, they certainly have some catching up to do. The first 5 US missions of this type didn't exactly end well for the passengers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkeys_in_space#United_States [wikipedia.org]
and the first 'successful' Soviet dog in orbit trip didn't even include 'bring it back alive' as a mission objective:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laika#Controversy [wikipedia.org]
Re:the monkey was quoted as saying (Score:4, Informative)
Like Norway! (Score:3)
Where, by default, you get baptized as Luthern!
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You've just called the UK a shithole. Thanks.
Also, Canada, Costa Rica, Liechtenstein, Malta, Monaco, Greece, Denmark, Iceland, Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion [wikipedia.org]
Furthermore, although I do disagree with state religion, it's not all that defines a country. I'm certain Iran has some areas of outstanding natural beauty, magnificent architecture, foot, culture etc.
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Well, nowhere's perfect. You yank derps execute innocent people.
Although the in the most recent UK case of a homeowner killing an intruder, the homeowner was released without charge.
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Yes. See the entire US isn't a shithole. The shithole part of the US is over there [/waves hand]. I'm over here [/waves other hand] where it's all better and we are enlightened*. But really when you think about it [/flails arms] the whole world is a shithole compared to us, and that's because we had George. George was a great man. He made people happy. George saved the world, then he died and the world turned back to a shithole. George also was an awesome narrator for Thomas the Tank Engine.
~
-nB
* ok
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I'm certain Iran has some areas of outstanding natural beauty, magnificent architecture, foot, culture etc
Foot?
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Canada has a state religion? That conflicts with the following map (where gray represents "no state religion") as well as the very content of the page you linked to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_state_religions.svg [wikipedia.org]
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Maybe he's confusing it with being part of the British Monarchy? But I guess just because the Queen is the head of religion in the UK doesn't make her the head of religion in Canada - only the head of state.
Re:the monkey was quoted as saying (Score:5, Interesting)
Canada has a state religion?
Yes. The main sacramental objects are beer, sticks, a hard rubber disc, and beer.
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I stand corrected :-P
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Not sure about the others, but Canada doesn't have a state religion.
The wikipedia article you linked to notes that certain religious schools, most notably Roman Catholic, receive public funding, but so do various other specialty schools, including some Islamic ones.
Your point is well taken though - there's a difference between a technical state religion that hangs around for historical reasons and what the GP meant by "state religion" implying more of a theocracy.
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Re:the monkey was quoted as saying (Score:4, Informative)
Places with a "state religion" (which particular religion doesn't matter) are, by definition, shit holes.
Most places actually have a state religion, including some that I'd question if you actually intended to call them shit holes. I'll leave the naming of them to the other replies in this thread. Some even have several state religions going at once. American-style separation of Church and State is, relatively speaking, actually quite an unusual state of affairs.
That said, many of these places have both a state religion and religious freedom. These are not incompatible.
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Agreed. GP should have said it has nothing to do with their particular state religion.
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"While it may possibly be a shit-hole, it has nothing to do with their state religion"
This sounds even more stupid the more I read it. Whoosh.
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You lack discernment. If the place is a shit-hole, it is due to the authorities or lack thereof. Since Iran has authorities, it's on them. And since the authorities are religious, it is the state religion at fault.
If I were referring to another state, I would be referring to that state's authorities.
You assumed I was making a generalization. Wrong.
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But it may have something to do with the state of their religion.
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Re:Ahmadinejad / Monkey jokes (Score:5, Informative)
OK, I hold an Iranian passport and have been in and out of Iran many times.
People in Iran do not like Ahmadinejad. One of the many insults is to call him a monkey because he is a half-wit. Same as how George Bush got the monkey insults.
Nothing to do with race. Just that he's a simple fool in charge of an entire country.
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OK, accepted.
I was going to say that "monkey" isn't a common insult doled out at white idiots. But then I remembered Steve Bell's cartoon version of George Bush. [blogspot.com]
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Sounds like you've been a bit of a monkey!
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I'd rather they like Ahmadinejad than the Supreme Leader. Ahmadinejad is a moderate compared to that guy.
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I'm still waiting for him to throw poo at the UN.
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Yes, I'm pretty sure everybody in Iran hates that guy. Leaders with zero support tend to stay in power for a long time, I don't know how they do it but it happens. I guess even Ghadaffi had more supporters than this Iranian guy.
In general, I don't like to judge world leaders based on whoever the US says is bad or the educated minority base of these third world countries, which most likely have studied/lived in the "West" and also speak English. Those countries sometimes deserve leaders like that since they
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I'm pretty sure we spent most of 8 years calling our own (US) president a monkey in political banter.
I do in fact have a mental image of his ranting being like a crazy monkey.
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If I'm making the Ahmadinejad/monkey jokes, it's not racist. It's an intentional personal insult. I trust that the overwhelming majority Iranian people want to live peaceful lives and prosper in their land. It's the religous types and the government that whip up a frenzy to kill and dominate. I'm assuming. If I'm wrong, that will become clear soon enough.
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