Gut Bacteria Exert Mind Control 221
sciencehabit writes "Hundreds of species of bacteria call the human gut their home. This gut 'microbiome' influences our physiology and health in ways that scientists are only beginning to understand. Now, a new study suggests that gut bacteria can even mess with the mind, altering brain chemistry and changing mood and behavior (abstract)."
Already knew that... (Score:3, Funny)
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Well (Score:2)
I, for one, welcome our microscopic overlords.
Re:Well (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well (Score:5, Funny)
I think these are more like innerlords.
This too shall pass away.
--
Never let a computer or a cat know that you are in a hurry.
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vastly outnumbered by our bacterial overlords (Score:3)
There are more bacteria in our intestines than cells in the body, by some estimates. I was disappointed by this comment:
The findings "open up very exciting speculation" about using probiotics to treat mood disorders in people, says Emeran Mayer, a gastroenterologist at the University of California, Los Angeles.
The types of bacteria in one's intestines are highly dependent on the substrates available. A person who eats a vegetable-rich diet every day - especially grated carrots with salt and vinegar or jerusalem artichokes (rich source of the prebiotic carbohydrate inulin) - will have a totally different types of bacteria in their intestines than those who survive on Big Macs, Fries and carbonate
Interesting. (Score:3)
I've always thought of Big Macs as being quite similar to fertilizer. Do you think they have some benefit?
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depends on what kind of bacteria you want to feed. If you want to cultivate bacteria that produce "signs of stress and anxiety", big macs are exactly what you're looking for. :)
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More like a super preservative [yahoo.com].
Re:Interesting. (Score:4, Insightful)
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"Gassy and ADD?"
But, it's the best rationalization for his already being gassy and ADD.
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No, the human body has evolved to eat whatever kind of food it can fit into its mouth.
We're dogs. We're pigs. Your stomach upset is caused not because of genetics, but because your body is accustomed to a high-quality diet. It is no longer able to digest garbage.
That is, unless you think you could find a day-old carcass laying around, cut it up, warm it over a fire and eat the half-cooked results without shitting out your lungs.
Your belief that fast food contains no real food is a bit misguided, anyway.
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Your belief that fast food contains no real food is a bit misguided, anyway. Do you believe EVERYTHING you read? Do you have power crystals laying around? Christ..
If he had actually read about them, he would know that you NEVER, EVER leave power crystals just lying around! Someone could lose an island!
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There's virtually no natural food in traditional food, either. Almost all meat is cooked, roasted, fried or otherwise treated. The same is true for a lot of plants. Most plants and animals we eat are not in their natural form anyway, but modified by centuries-long bioengineering (called breeding).
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Artificial Fertilizers tend to distort the natural soil microbiology
Not on the land they're not applied. Consider what the ability to produce more food on less land does for the overall environment. People act like artificial fertilizers are this big horrible thing, but they're actually a pretty decent trade-off.
cause stunted root development
Uh, yeah, plants grown in high nutrient environments grow less roots. Those in need of more nutrients grow longer roots to seek out more nutrition, those already with enough don't.
balance and moderation is the key.
The same holds true in inorganic and organic (and by that I mean the real definitio
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So you are saying that Vegans are crazy because they don't eat meat and those microbes exert a greater influence because of it?
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So you are saying that Vegans are crazy because they don't eat meat and those microbes exert a greater influence because of it?
Which microbes?
All the vegans i've ever known (and i've know a lot of them and i was one myself for 14 years) showed much less sign of food-related craziness than habitual junk food eaters do.
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What's a "food-related craziness" and how does one define the difference between other types of crazy?
And it's odd you say that, many of the vegans I've known have been quite odd people. I always attributed the vegan choice to the oddities, rather than the other way around...
I do know that vegans have to be insanely careful about what they eat to be healthy and I've known a few athletes who tried to go vegan and their body just couldn't handle it, responding like they were short on important nutrients, thei
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What's a "food-related craziness" and how does one define the difference between other types of crazy?
Dunno really, maybe you should ask the gp what they meant by "crazy". I was using "food-related" to exclude other more obvious sources of craziness.
And it's odd you say that, many of the vegans I've known have been quite odd people. I always attributed the vegan choice to the oddities, rather than the other way around...
Everyone's odd to somebody - even you!
I do know that vegans have to be insanely careful about what they eat to be healthy [......]
You don't have to be insanely careful at all, you just have to know what you're doing and have your shit together. People who don't understand nutrition and can't keep it together don't last very long as vegans.
[......] and I've known a few athletes who tried to go vegan and their body just couldn't handle it, responding like they were short on important nutrients, their energy, stamina and recovery speed were notably diminished.
I'm going to say what I always say. Doing something "hardcore" is probably bad for you. Why not have a balanced diet? We are evolved as omnivores and it's challenging to try to hotwire that.
Athletes have very different nutritional requirements from normal people. It may be possible to be a vegan athlete
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litre of soya milk
Wow, I don't think there is a more offensive phrase to republicans than that.
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but perhaps they are weird because they are vegans!
Are you sure the microbes weren't controlling their mind and causing them to be and become vegans?
Which came first... the veganism or the bacteria that likes their host to be vegan?
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Yeah or maybe vegans are the only ones to have sane bacteria and there is some germ pulling meat-eaters ropes to make them feed up on the ol' red meat.
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Yep, as the old saying goes, you are what you eat.
But something else that has a major influence on your gut flora is antibiotics - which quacks hand out like lollies ("sweets"/"candies", for the linguistically challenged). So just changing your diet may not be enough, because the necessary bacteria may simply not be there any more.
There have been reports (in New Scientist among other sources) of the success of what are euphemistically called "fecal transplants". Getting the right microbes into your gut - an
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I had a really difficult root canal after which the dentist prescribed really strong antibiotics because the roots were so curvy and deep he wasn't sure he could get it all. At the same time, he prescribed acidophilus... but it didn't help, and my digestive system got completely out of whack. I had to eventually take massive doses of all different kinds of probiotics to get "normal" again. Years later I started taking probiotics as part of my routine (yes, I'm old), and it's worked really well for me.
As
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"I was disappointed by this comment:
The findings "open up very exciting speculation" about using probiotics to treat mood disorders in people, says Emeran Mayer, a gastroenterologist at the University of California, Los Angeles."
Me too. I'm surprised this is news to a gastroenterologist. I though it was well known that other, non-biotic, inhabitants [wikipedia.org] influence the mind too. Very nasty if you have candadiasis, which is an out of control growth of this critter.
Are you pondering what I'm pondering? (Score:2, Funny)
Or maybe the mice just felt good after having taken a really satisfying dump.
Brain:
Unnerving (Score:4, Funny)
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I think you were right in you initial assessment. If the vagus nerve is intact signals of well being could be transmitted to the brain and reduce stress. There is a difference between no signal and good signals.
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Yeah, I considered that bit too. But I still say it's a decent start at trying to sort out causality.
Says you.
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Causality is a useless attempt at simplification in any reasonably healthy ecosystem. Including the internal ecosystem of any mammal that is not actually in the last stages of dying.
This stuff is better handled by thinking of it as Skinner type black boxes. Give the gut a stimulus, look for a consistent response. You can do lot of good science at that level. But try to get any more mechanistic than that and there are too many possible alternative pathways and, at this point, by far too little established
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Oh.
What's funny is that I didn't hear the "Woosh". Usually I hear the "Whoosh" just after I push the Submit button, so I get the full benefit of self-humiliation from the earliest possible moment.
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I don't know. I think cutting the vagus nerve could be kind of cool.
I'm going to try it as soon as I'm done trepanning myself. Problem is, I keep breaking drill bits and then running out of coconut-flavored rum. So then I gotta wrap my head up and drive down to the hardware store and then the liquor store. Last time I went the guy who owns Crater Liquors on Milwaukee Avenue was pissed that I bled on hi
Potential Zombie Virus (Score:2)
Impossible! (Score:3)
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Free will is just as incompatible with a random universe as it is with a deterministic universe. Random events are statistically deterministic. We know that quantum events are truly random, and not affected by hidden variables (such as "will"), due to Bell's theorem. Free will is simply incompatible with what we know about physics.
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Free will is just as incompatible with a random universe as it is with a deterministic universe. Random events are statistically deterministic. We know that quantum events are truly random, and not affected by hidden variables (such as "will"), due to Bell's theorem. Free will is simply incompatible with what we know about physics.
That's not what Bell's theorem says. It say that quantum physics must necessarily violate either the principle of locality or counterfactual definiteness. Free will could violate locality if it was the result of agents external to the universe. Conversely, free will could violate counterfactual definiteness if the universe was being made up as we go along. The latter seems not only compatible with free will, but a necessary consequence of it.
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Except that the Copenhagen interpretation dismisses the principle of locality as an inescapable observer bias that is not binding on the Universe (it is instead a limit to our capacity to perceive or understand the Universe). Without the principle of locality, Bell's theorem pretty much falls apart.
The Sugar Beats summed up the whole quandary quite well, I think: "I can't believe I used to think that what I thought was happening was really going on." If you can get your head around that, then you are one
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The assumption that I posses a mysterious "free will" that is somehow divorced from cause and effect(except in that it causes me to act) is simply too convenient to abandon!
It's not an assumption. It is a continuous first-hand subjective observation. I was going to post a sarcastic reply, but then I decided I really shouldn't be so mean -- after all, by your argument it wasn't your decision to post that.
chemicals (Score:5, Interesting)
There is far more serotonin present in your gut than in your skull.
I wasn't going to post anything (Score:4, Funny)
but I just had this gut feeling that something bad would happen if I didn't.
No Futurama love yet? (Score:2)
OK, it's worms [wikipedia.org] instead of bacteria, but still....
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Oops. Did a search for "futurama" and didn't see anything.
That's very different. Never mind.
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but I just had this gut feeling that something bad would happen if I didn't.
See what happens if you let your ass think for you?
So the spleen is the seat of emotions after all? (Score:2)
So the spleen is the seat of emotions after all?
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/anxietydepression/a/EmotionsTCM.htm [about.com]
Then forget the Zoloft, gimme my strawberry-banana yogursicle.
So, when I eat French Fries... (Score:2)
...I feel like an American!
No wait...
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If it makes you feel better, you can call them frenched fries.
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Also, calling them frenched fries prevents the Belgians being insulted.
LOL! Excellent comeback. :)
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Hmm, Vlaamse frieten! Delicious! Especially with the sour mayo they have!
Was this unexpected? (Score:3)
There are millions of people every day dependent upon manufactured medications to maintain mental function, and millions more who are taking medication because someone else thinks they need mental function adjustement. Those medications are, for the most part, administered orally.
What, does it surprise anyone that a bacterium producing a mind altering compound in the gut would have that compound absorbed and transported via the bloodstream, when we depend on exactly that transport method for manufactured drugs?
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This was unexpected?
What, does it surprise anyone that a bacterium producing a mind altering compound in the gut would have that compound absorbed and transported via the bloodstream, when we depend on exactly that transport method for manufactured drugs?
I think you may have missed the part about cutting the vagus nerve. With the nerve cut there was no mood enhancing effect. Therefore it is not a compound produced by the organism being transported to the brain.
Who Farted? (Score:2)
For years we've been taking the blame for our farting. Now, with this research, we can blame mind control!
And I'm not even kidding. These critters are indeed controlling our minds in flatulence. What more - or less - subtle means do they exercise?
Another sensationalistic headline (Score:3)
When did /. become a tabloid? This has nothing to do with "mind control". Control implies intent and I am pretty sure that a bacteria in the digestive tract have no intent to "explore narrow walkways".
The bacteria makes the stomach feel better and the vagus nerve transmits this feeling to the brain thereby reducing stress. There is a funny thing about stress. The response to stress is not linear it is exponential. If someone under no stress has a little stress added they can deal with it. A person under a lot of stress has the same amount add it can push them over the edge. A good example of this is losing keys. If you are about to leave the house to go for a walk and cant find you keys it is not a problem; most people just delay the walk until they find their keys. Now lose your keys when you are trying to get to the airport with 4 excited children. That small stressor can drive you insane. Same stressor, different initial stress level, different response. So the stomach feeling good lowers stress levels and allows the rodent to handle added stress better. Animals under stress avoid stress.
Do bacteria in the digestive tract affect animals? Yes, by making them feel better and having less stress. Do bacteria in the digestive tract control the mind? No, that do not make animals do things they do not want to do.
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You have a very strange definition of "same".
Not being able to find the keys isn't the stress inducer, they're just reasonably cheap replaceable objects. The stress in the first case is "damn it where are those keys". The stress in the second case is "damn it where are those keys", and "shit, we are going to miss the plane", and "I can't leave the house unlocked for the entire trip". Completely different things.
Doesn't refute your exponential idea, but that example doesn't provide any evidence for it either
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I interpreted it as house keys, after all why would you be looking for your car keys to go for a walk?
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It's an issue of adaptation, not intent. Lots of parasites alter their hosts' behaviour, which is mind control by definition. The control may be crude but that's not the point.
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Parasites alter mood which allows people to do things that want to do. That is not control. Are you saying that antidepressants are mind control drugs? Re you saying a pulled muscle exerts mind control? It defiantly alters behaviour in that one is less active. Look up Mind control and you will see that it is synonymous with brainwashing. The term "mind control" has a specific definition and the only reason it was used in the headline was to sensationalize the article.
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Or to go a little further "I get grumpy at work if I miss lunch"
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A couple digits before you got here, Sonny.
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When did /. become a tabloid? This has nothing to do with "mind control". Control implies intent and I am pretty sure that a bacteria in the digestive tract have no intent to "explore narrow walkways".
The bacteria makes the stomach feel better and the vagus nerve transmits this feeling to the brain thereby reducing stress. There is a funny thing about stress. The response to stress is not linear it is exponential. If someone under no stress has a little stress added they can deal with it. A person under a lot of stress has the same amount add it can push them over the edge. A good example of this is losing keys. If you are about to leave the house to go for a walk and cant find you keys it is not a problem; most people just delay the walk until they find their keys. Now lose your keys when you are trying to get to the airport with 4 excited children. That small stressor can drive you insane. Same stressor, different initial stress level, different response. So the stomach feeling good lowers stress levels and allows the rodent to handle added stress better. Animals under stress avoid stress.
Do bacteria in the digestive tract affect animals? Yes, by making them feel better and having less stress. Do bacteria in the digestive tract control the mind? No, that do not make animals do things they do not want to do.
Really? Your positive about this, huh?
Let me tell you a little bit about stress and me. Stress doesn't start in my stomach. Stress starts in my brain. Ya, I know that is that is probably the weirdest thing you've ever heard, but, at least with me, it's true. And that stress, goes from my head, to my stomach. I know your thinking, what? that's bullshit, stress starts in your stomach because I said so. Well, sorry, but stress starts in the brain. Ya, i know, that really fucks up the post you w
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Are you saying that when your stomach is upset due to hunger, illness, etc that it does not cause stress? How about when you stub your toe? Does that not increase stress? How about when you get a massage? Does that not decrease stress? What I am trying to say is that positive and negative sensations from the rest of the body induce or relieve stress. There are nerve pathways in both direction between the brain and the digestive tract. Yes, stress causes stomach issue but stomach issues also cause stress. I
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When did /. become a tabloid?
Let me take a stab at this: About maybe 8 years ago?
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Darn right! We're^H^H^H^H^HThe bacteria are not controlling anyone or acting with intent.
Neuropeptide Y or S or CCK (Score:3)
This bacteria must interfere with possibly a combination of the Neuropeptides Y, S and CCK pathways. The CCK-4 neuropeptide is pretty nasty, it cause instant panic attack reliably at 75ug.
Charles Dickens nailed it (Score:5, Insightful)
"You don't believe in me," observed the Ghost.
"I don't." said Scrooge.
"What evidence would you have of my reality, beyond that of your senses?"
"I don't know," said Scrooge.
"Why do you doubt your senses?"
"Because," said Scrooge, "a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"
Gut Feeling to Eat Fried Peanut Butter & Banna (Score:2)
My Gut Reaction (Score:4, Funny)
For some speculative applications... (Score:2)
Try reading Vitals by Greg Bear.
So there is a secret world government after all (Score:2)
That Jives with my Experience with Crohn's (Score:2)
This was very much my experience with Crohn's disease.
Well actually, it turned out not to be Crohn's, but a rare type of cancer called an gastronoma, but that's kind of an aside.
What I found is that the mind-gut connection is a two way street. ... your mind starts to react as if stress were the cause.
You know how your gut gets all twisted and you get the shits, nausea, etc when you are *really* stressed out?
Well if that shit happens (no pun intended) on the regular
I had almost no stress (other than the heal
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Of course your gut and mind are connected.
If your gut isn't working right all the time, you're feeling unwell and in pain all the time.
If you're constantly gassy, uncomfortable and looking for somewhere socially acceptable to fart, it's not going to put you in a good mood.
If you're always hungry even soon after a large meal, you're going to be irritable because you're hungry.
If you have a disease that requires you to plan and monitor everything you eat, that causes stress. Especially if you're told that dis
Obligatory Star Wars quote... (Score:2)
"Great, Chewie, always thinking with your stomach!"
And they want to KILL HITLER (Score:2)
Did anyone see the latest Doctor Who? I mean, how timely is this?
Correlation, causation, and all that fun (Score:2)
Someone mentioned it already, but that old saying "you are what you eat" might have some really deep truth in it. It also reminds of those Asian "body & mind are one" teachings many practitioners of modern scientific medicine like to laugh about.
Anecdotal evidence as observed in people around me: lots of sweets > whiny, anxious; vegetarian > nervous, grumbly; lots of animal fats > aggressive, superficial; lots of fruit > funny, clown.
Its obvious (Score:2)
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No
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...and why you're in a better mood if you poison the bastards with ethanol.
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No, yes or no, no?
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No, no. No?
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Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
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It's true that they've made some very insightful connections long ago. But so have the Europeans. It's just that it's the current fad to be into Chinese medicine. And from experience I've found a lot of it to be flat out wrong or at least misguided.
I mean, if they had it all figured out China should have the longest life expectancy on earth, and they don't. Although, I'm not discounting Chinese doctors either, because much of what they do is indeed effective. But I wouldn't be surprised if more Americans go
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[......] and antibiotics to fuck your digestive system
FTFY
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But what would they know compared to our few hundred years of research in Western medicine?
Not enough to know that there's no such thing as chi/ki/prana apparently. As for this mind-gut connection, enlighten me, does it say anything specific or relevant to anything related to gut flora? Or is it just that eating good food makes you feel better (which falls firmly into the no shit category), mixed with a heaping helping of nonsense about 'yin foods' and 'yang foods'? I'm not making that up; TCM practitioners actually believe that some foods have magical heating (yang) or cooling (yin) abilities
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It is pretty common for humans to notice a trend that they don't understand, and explain their lack of understanding away as magic. We see that even in the highest reaches of
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Indeed. Marvel in awe at their [China's] advanced political system.
Does it really make much difference? In Australia, we get a choice of two parties who are virtually identical. We can vote, but it won't make any difference to anything much. It's the same in the UK and, as far as i can tell, the same in the US.
As far as differences between countries go, Australia and the UK don't have capital punishment, China and the US do. Australia and the UK have good social security and universally available health systems, China and the US don't. The Chinese government censors the in
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Funny you should mention those specifically. I remember hearing a story about Toxoplasma causing people to behave in higher-risk ways, like driving faster.
As for how that relates to how it makes mice (that may be harboring Toxoplasma) attracted to the urine of cats that will want to eat said mice (to aid its spread), I cannot imagine.
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Wookies.
I'd advise caution, though...
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Sure, but Google took 0.09 seconds to answer.
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I started taking a probiotic supplement yesterday (that contains Lactobacillus), how long until I'm under control?
You already are... you were under their control right before you got the probiotic supplement (which they caused you to get and take) <EG>
See... while it's true bacteria at the console (gut) can effect mind control, there is a SSH equivalent as well (remote mind control)