Paper Airplane Touches Edge of Space, Glides Back 158
itwbennett writes "Brits Steve Daniels, John Oates and Lester Haines just became the envy of geeks the world over. The trio 'built a one-wing glider from paper, lofted it to the edge of space at 90,000 feet with a helium balloon, and posted sound and video recordings from the plane as it glided safely back to the ground,' writes blogger Kevin Fogarty. The Register newspaper sponsored the stunt and reported each step of the process. And British defense-contractor Qinetiq supplied the cameras and testing chambers, says Fogarty."
DUDE! (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:DUDE! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, it's cool. But balloon stories are a dime a dozen right now, don't you agree?
And to be honest, it would have been more impressive if they didn't try to make it sound more impressive by using the word "space", but instead used the now neglected word "stratosphere".
Cause it wasn't even a third of the way up to the lowest common definition of the space "boundary", but a stratospheric paper plane? That's way cool!
Re:DUDE! (Score:5, Funny)
Split the difference?
Spaceosphere!
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Funny)
...Stratospace sounds much more cool.
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Wow, it does. Make it so!
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Balloons and gliders predate powered flight.
Alexander de Seversky proposed an ionic drive that would need most of that altitude to work.
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Informative)
Balloons and gliders predate powered flight.
Alexander de Seversky proposed an ionic drive that would need most of that altitude to work.
http://www.rexresearch.com/desev/desev.htm [rexresearch.com]
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[citation needed]
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not even that cool. Say "paper airplane", and everyone thinks of the folded paper planes we all made so many of as a kid.
This is just a traditional model airplane with a ton of work done to substitute paper for balsa, _just_ so they could say "paper airplane" in the headlines. It's totally disingenuous.
Vulture 1 team, turn in your Geek Badges. You are Junior Marketing Assistants now.
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Yeah, I was pretty disappointed, too, when I saw the Vulture and it was a full-on aeroplane. I didn't know what I expected, maybe a huge paper plane that could somehow carry the camera, or maybe a microcamera, something besides a regular camera and what appears to be the same kind of plane radio hobbyists fly. If they had been a bit more honest there wouldn't have been this feeling of loss. Meanwhile, there's still the opportunity to one-up them via honesty, and put a real folded-paper airplane up there wit
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Do you have a link to pictures of the "airplane" I couldn't find any on the three links, only pictures took from the airplane.
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And to be honest, it would have been more impressive if they didn't try to make it sound more impressive by using the word "space"
Or "paper airplane" when most people think of a piece of folded paper.
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Come on now. It's an airplane made entirely of paper (and glue)... how is that not a "paper airplane"???
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Not saying it wasn't, just that people have a different reaction to the term "paper airplane".
They could have used wood just as easily with this sort of structure.
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More to the point, when was El Reg ever a newspaper!?
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...(thus some Blackbird pilots are actually Astronauts). Why do these articles keep, with such huge inaccuracies, keep getting posted?
X-15. Pot, kettle, et al ;) (I guess too many, to use the description from the headline, nerds like to think they're doing something similar to space agencies)
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SR-71 Blackbird, service ceiling of 85kft:
http://www.sr-71.org/blackbird/sr-71/ [sr-71.org]
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Correction. This appears to be what he is talking about, but he says above 80km which is much more then 85kft. Sorry to pull a NASA level imperial/metric screwup.
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But it's still "another month, another helium balloon story"...
Also: http://www.members.shaw.ca/sonde/ [members.shaw.ca]
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Yes. That is damn cool. The naysayers and nitpickers will swarm on this story soon enough. But it's still cool.
It was absolutely frickin' badass... the first ten times. Now it's just plain getting old. Hey look, someone used a weather balloon and sent it up into the atmosphere. Hey wow, someone uses a balloon and sent it up into the atmosphere, and THIS TIME it was a father and son. Whoa, look, someone used a balloon and sent it up into the atmosphere, and THIS TIME it has a glider made of paper! Really I'm at the edge of my seat, but it's getting repetitive.
Now I know where I am. This is Slashdot (say it l
Re:DUDE! (Score:5, Funny)
Would it be any better for you if we made a Beowulf cluster of them? So that you can enjoy your petrified Natalie Portman with hot grits?
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Funny)
Would it be any better for you if we made a Beowulf cluster of them? So that you can enjoy your petrified Natalie Portman with hot grits?
Haha. I salute you, fellow long-time Slashdotter.
Of course, the hot grits need to be poured down someone's pants. And someone should link to an XKCD comic or something. Preferably the GNAA will not be involved.
Re:DUDE! (Score:5, Funny)
Two six-digit accounts talking about the good ol' days of Slashdot. Precious!
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You know, some of us were lurking a bit for a few years...too bad really, considering it started perhaps in the times of 5-digit UIDs.
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Isn't it mean to say that without providing a link? ;)
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Two six-digit accounts talking about the good ol' days of Slashdot. Precious!
I started reading slashdot within months of its going online, but I registered only about 5 years later because I didn't think I'd have anything to contribute back then. At the time I came to read the articles, not the comments. So it's entirely possible to talk about the 'good old days' of /. with a high ID.
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Two six-digit accounts talking about the good ol' days of Slashdot. Precious!
I thought they said you was dead...
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Well, at least, nobody should say they must be new here.
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Phew! I thought you were going to mention the nazis.
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But of course that must include the fact that in Soviet Russia, a petrified Natalie Portman with hot grits enjoys your Beowolf cluster of these things.
Something like that, I think something got lost in translation.
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Within the last 24 hours I was watching some anime where someone was petrified, and I thought "Damn, it's been too long since someone mentioned a petrified Natalie Portman on Slashdot."
I started suspecting the meme had died. Thanks for proving me wrong!
Also, I have poured hot grits down my pants. Thank you.
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In the Soviet Union, Natalie Portman packs Hot grits up your goat.cx!
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that a day doesn't go by when someone sees a "Soviet Russia", "sharks with lasers", etc meme for the first time. I discovered the joy of "all your base" many years after everyone else. And all three of those, when done well, still give me a smile.
You speak of the 'Slashdot crowd' like we all joined at the same time and we're all the same age and of the same background but it's simply not true. It's not even a valid generalisation.
And the fact that someone modded something funny means that they enjoyed reading it enough to give it a mod point. And that's how this thing works. Don't be a back seat moderator. You use your mod points on whatever the hell you want and let everyone else do the same.
Now i'm not judging anyone here, but you're all idiots :p
Re:DUDE! (Score:4, Insightful)
The concept you're missing is called "gestalt". It's not quite the same thing as a generalization. If you don't want to appreciate that, then you won't, and that's not really my concern. Incidentally I used the repetitive memes as a lighthearted analogy. The subject of my post was the overabundance of "balloons floating" stories out there. Deliberately or accidentally, you missed that.
Me writing a post to try and point something out does not prevent anyone with mod points from using those points as they see fit. It's possible I might pursuade someone to reconsider how they moderate, but only if they want to be persuaded. If they don't agree with me then they will moderate however they please no matter what I say.
I will use my own mod points however the hell I want, I always have, this isn't your idea, and I really don't care whether you approve. Likewise, I am not preventing anyone else from doing the same. Other mods don't need me to "let" them do anything. I am not their master. Meanwhile you're just upset that I might convince them of something you dislike and you veil that quite thinly. That's frankly not my problem. Worrying about this is beneath you, and if it isn't, it should be.
Oh, one more thing. By your very own standard there, several moderators found my comment "Insightful". They enjoyed reading it enough to give it a mod point. And that's how this thing works, or so I've recently heard. I'm sure you can demonstrate the "use your mod points on whatever the hell you want" portion of your little philosophy there. Can you model for me the part about "let everyone else do the same"? Or do you feel a need to complain about that when it doesn't go the way you like?
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FWIW, if I hadn't posted I would have spent one of my 15 mod points modding your posting interesting, even though i disagreed with it.
What I disagreed with was you complaining about people modding an ancient meme up to +5, which is where my 'backseat moderator' comment came from. There is already a system in place to keep the moderation in check and complaining that people didn't use their mod points the way you would have liked them to just isn't getting it.
My post got Informative, Insightful, and Flamebai
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Your right, it's getting old... someone should do it with their house next!
All Your Base (Score:2)
All Your Base!
Hamsternaut (Score:2)
I'm waiting for the first balloon-launched Hamsternaut. Complete with cute hamster spacesuit.
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Now I know where I am. This is Slashdot (say it like King Leonitus and kick something if you need to). It's nothing to be ashamed of, but Slashdotters have a problem. After seeing the ten millionth repetition of "in Soviet Russia" or "sharks with lasers" and modding it up to +5 Funny for the 9 trillionth time, they have a very hard time admitting when something has gotten old and it's time to move on. (Someone is tempted to reply with one of those memes thinking "hah, that'll fix him, he'll NEVER see this coming!")
I for one welcome our karma-whoring +5 Funny comedian stratospheric critics!
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"others have to wash their hands eight hundred times a day,"
If we strictly followed the guidelines that is - its called 'infection control' in the healthcare industry. ( disclaimer: IAOACNA) (I am only a CNA)
Well, I do draw a distinction between obsessive-compulsion disorder and institutional requirements grounded in a medical basis. But maybe that's just me.
wtf (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wtf (Score:4, Informative)
When you said "the edge of space" I thought you meant the border of the universe, so I was all WTF.
Apparently a little buoyancy goes a long way.
$13,000 (Score:1)
I found the $13,000 in funding a letdown as the synopsis led me to believe the whole thing was a more home grown affair.
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I guess you'd prefer this one? http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/10/03/1945228/Brooklyn-Father-And-Son-Launch-Homemade-Spacecraft [slashdot.org]
Maybe those in need of karma can start copying the +5 comments from that story to here. I'm sure most would still apply... :)
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The amount of effort and precedences counts, too... This one is nice [members.shaw.ca], and more than a bit similar to TFA (though better)
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That is "homegrown". Some hobbyists spend that much building a single RC-aircraft. Get together with 5 or 6 like-minded friends, and you can put together a similar project no problem.
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Most hobbiests don't have the backing of a newspaper and a defence contractor.
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Most hobbiests don't have the backing of a newspaper and a defence contractor.
Well, newspapers have slow news days and (though it's their own damn fault) defense contractors are always in need of good PR. Sounds like this hobbyist was ready for a little exploitation, er I mean assistance.
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"...Qinetiq supplied..." (Score:2, Insightful)
Cheat.
That's pretty cool. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:That's pretty cool. (Score:5, Insightful)
I would hope that we would rather consider the meaning of the fact that the general public has an interest in reaching space again, and by doing it themselves. Sure, maybe a balloon to the upper reaches of the atmosphere is not anywhere close to launching an Atlas rocket, but I for one am glad that people are still dreaming, and experimenting!
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The problem is, that's not a fact - it's an opinion.
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Sure, you're right. Perhaps it's a bit of wishful thinking showing through. Nitpicking aside, is it not a positive trend that we are getting annoyed by stories of people trying to send up these balloons? There has to be some reason multiple people have been motivated to do more of these "experiments" or whatever you want to call them. I'm HOPING it's because they are interested in space, science, and fun.
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> but I for one am glad that people are still dreaming, and experimenting!
Until your plane hits one of those experiments. Or something drops on you from 20 km height.
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I would hope that we would rather consider the meaning of the fact that the general public has an interest in reaching space again, and by doing it themselves.
People have always wanted to get into space ever since they knew that it was possible to do so.
What really seems to have happened is that people have finally realized that our government lacks the will to do it any more and so they've done what people have eventually always done in this scenario, which is to do it themselves. I'm just waiting for one
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Well it's not an Atlas but how about a 1/10 scale Saturn V [popularmechanics.com] with eight 13,000 Newton-second N-Class motors and a 77,000 Newton-second P-Class motor, that stands 36 ft tall and weighs 1648 pounds and flew to an altitude of 4440 feet?
Re:That's pretty cool. (Score:5, Funny)
Well, now it just depends on what you drop from that height. Think international Lawn Darts.
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with slashdot reporting, the headline will probably be 'father and son build and launch orbital weaponsplatform for two weeks allowance'
When I first read that headline... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Maybe not impossible, if some Japanese (who else?...) have their way. [wikipedia.org]
I smell a strange trend (Score:3, Funny)
What's next, Slinky down side of Everest?
Jet streams? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Jet streams? (Score:5, Insightful)
A bit similarly to how you can, in fact, breathe inside a speeding bullet-train or an airplane. Speed relative to the ground isn't everything...
Re:Jet streams? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you really think it's a wall of speeding air, without quite gentle (especially for a very small object) transition?... (plus, think: dainty balloons survive it routinely - in fact, the story mentions one)
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"It's not dangerous or anything" looks an agreement with the point I was making.
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What about the points when it entered / exited the jet stream? Won't there be turbulence at the edges of the jet stream? A bit like how jumping into / out of a speeding bullet-train could cause some damage.
Obviously it had an exit buddy [youtube.com].
"Remember: Rip it, Roll it and Punch it!!"
Newspaper? (Score:3, Insightful)
Do none of these people honestly know that The Register is one long lived, entertaining, and generally informative tech web site, and that it was the creator of the ever popular and true to life adventures of BOFH? [theregister.co.uk]
Oh right, their URL ends with
Re:Newspaper? (Score:4, Informative)
Do none of these people honestly know that The Register is one long lived, entertaining, and generally informative tech web site, and that it was the creator of the ever popular and true to life adventures of BOFH?
I agree with most of that, but the BOFH stories were around long before El Reg started publishing them.
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Wow I always what happened (Score:2)
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NEXT time.... (Score:2)
.
Register (Score:2)
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It's not a paper airplane (Score:2, Informative)
Headline is appropriate (Score:2)
The headline is completely accurate for large values of edge.
Yes, that's nice, but I want to know... (Score:2)
video and sound recordings? (Score:2)
I've only been able to find photo stills on the link provided (goes to flickr). Has anyone else found the video or sound recordings provided at that link?
I usually have more to say but.. (Score:2)
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I guess you are literally trolling.
The energy you save from helium lifting up is exactly the same amount of energy you need to spend to bring it back down to "reuse" it.
Not to mention, helium is really expensive. It takes about $100 of helium to lift 5 pounds (ballpark).
You'd do better just using specialized jet engines to take things up to 75,000 feet or so, even as inefficient as they are.
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Not exactly. The lift capacity of helium is how much atmosphere it can displace; Creative use of an air compressor in the lift vehicle would reduce it's volume, thus increasing density, and thus reducing lift.
Thus, to "Descend", you just turn on a solar powered air compressor, suck up the HE in the lift bag, and the whole show slowly sinks back to earth.
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Old message I know, but the energy you put into compressing the helium is probably more than you think.
The real first law of thermodynamics, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
I didn't even bring up the question of orbital mechanics. The simple version is that "being up high" doesn't actually get you much closer to being in orbit if your velocity in relation to the earth is still nearly zero. Getting into orbit requires a certain amount of delta V.
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Experiments are a great way to get people interested in science. We don't need to see it reported all the time, but it would be great to see the concept continued and expanded upon.
Re:Ok we get it already (Score:5, Funny)
Only if the stated goal is to deliver a screaming child ever higher into the atmosphere, with video and sound.
Bonus points if they come down in one piece.
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A balloon has some fundamental limitations, a...ceiling. To which your average helium balloon is quite close and overcoming it requires pretty high tech [isas.jaxa.jp]. Once you get the hang of proper handling (ever more difficult with higher tech), what limits you is the (lack of) atmosphere and slight manufacturing faults of the balloon.
That said - yes, it's fun. Yes, we don't need to see it reported all the time.
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they were outside. there's no ceiling outside.
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Hydrogen is actually the norm for weather balloon usage (because it's much cheaper). But makes only few percent of difference (in the absolute terms of buoyancy, and this means even less than it sounds like due to the rapidly dropping air density), and only theoretically - because what actually kills the balloon is disintegration due to structural failure (after being greatly expanded).
I just used "helium balloon" because the term seems to have become customary in EN (I don't call them like that in my langu
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Yes!
Get the children involved! [jaunted.com]
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Also, they aren't discovering anything really new, even though they are squandering the limited resource of helium,
Which brings us to how efficient it is to have people conserve resources by shaming them. These people might not even have known helium is somehow scarce since the prices are so (relatively) low. Let the helium prices become market prices or even tax them and people will use less right away. At the same time we remove any unnecessary stigma from using money. The same could work for oil etc.
I'm not one of those hardcore free market believers, but even Stalinists will buy less if the prices are higher.
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The edge is defined as 100Km or 100,000m or rougly 300,000feet.. So it was launched from a third of the way there. Not bad.
Yeah, the replies saying "That's not space!!" are always correct, it's just funny to see them over and over. It's almost like the /. editors post these things on purpose just to get readers' goats.