Permanent Undersea Homes Soon; Temporary Ones Now 122
MMBK writes "Dennis Chamberland is one of the world's preeminent aquanauts. He's worked with NASA to develop living habitats and underwater plant growth labs, among other cool things. His next goal is establishing the world's first permanent underwater colony. This video gets to the heart of his project, literally and figuratively, as most is shot in his underwater habitat, Atlantica, off the coast of Key Largo, FL. The coolest part might be the moon pool, the room you swim into underwater."
Cousteau (Score:3, Informative)
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With 1960's technology. He said in the video that it was impractical to do it back then. But using modern technology it could be.
While I wouldn't want to live underwater myself, if this is done responsibly I am all for it. We talk about colonizing space, this is actually a step in that direction, and a lot cheaper and will push the same types of technology if we are ever going to colonize space.
ob. Futurama quote (re: same tech for space & (Score:5, Insightful)
Leela: "Five thousand feet!"
Farnsworth: "Dear Lord! That's over one hundred and fifty athmospheres of pressure."
Fry: "How many athmospheres can the ship withstand?"
Farnsworth: "Well, it's a space ship. So I'd say anywhere between zero and one."
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No idea why you were modded insightful. Big deal that the hulls are subject to different design ideals. A hardcover book will resist bending more than the paperback version. Still the same story on the inside.
There couldn't possibly be any crossover for oh.. I don't know.. say sustainable atmosphere recycling, waste management, or food production.
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With 1960's technology. He said in the video that it was impractical to do it back then.
You mean, if you give the people Internet access and Slashdot, they will happily forget that the view out of the window isn't that great?
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And porn. Mustn't forget the porn.
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He already said internet access.
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*Possible*, perhaps, but not practical. To be practical, there would have to be some benefit to it besides novelty. You'd have to be able to build whole cities down there and, importantly, these cities would have to support themselves economically in some fashion. That's just not going to happen now or soon.
I suppose you could build an exotic resort down there, and charge rich people an arm and a leg to visit for a week at a time. Beyond th
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Since you are immersed in salt water, any sort of agriculture will either involve serious halophiles or highly efficient closed loop freshwater stuff. Hey, look, if you have the tech to manage that in a more or less cost-effective way, you can have your pick of the earth's presently unfarmable deserts, without the cost of pressure resistant naval architecture or the risks of running out of air. Plenty of wind and solar power, too.
The desert would require buildings/houses that can reflect quite a bit of sun rays. If it doesn't, houses will start to cook people. Having that much heat, sand, and wind will make having open houses impractical as well.
Having water to make farmable land isn't enough. The plants need to be able to survive the extreme temperatures in the desert.
All in all, undersea housing and desert housing will probably balance out, due to the fact that it is much cheaper to create heat than to remove heat. At the ve
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White paint, doors and windows have been around a long, long time. Humans have lived in the desert now for a long, long time.
Have you ever been to Palm Springs, California or Phoenix, Arizona? Both of them are in the desert, with pretty much nothing but desert between them. Driving betw
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With 1960's technology. He said in the video that it was impractical to do it back then. But using modern technology it could be.
>
It's still impractical. Even with newer technology, living under the sea is hugely impractical. This is a neat idea that's a lot like rocket packs or flying cars; perhaps doable, but so impractical as to ensure that it never becomes widespread.
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The real tricks are in things like small-scale closed loop recycling of important biological materials, local energy generation, and the like. That territory isn't wholly unexplored; but it is likely wher
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one possibility: Carbon nanotubes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube [wikipedia.org]
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One interesting problem that they encountered was human waste disposal.
Their first approach was to vent it into the surrounding water directly. They had to stop doing this after the turds started floating to the surface and lingering. Most people don't realize this, but the Red Sea is actually quite calm due to it almost being a lake. These lingering turds posed a health risk, so they had to find an alternative method.
Their next approach was to store the feces and urine in plastic bags. This proved to be a
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So, this could be combined with this research into sewage disposal bags [slashdot.org], to create fertilizer for their farms and so on.
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Cousteau, the inventor of the first commercially successful Aqua Lung did it in '43. "Sea Hunt came on in '58 when I was 11 and I watched it religiously and was fascinated by the undersea world. One assignment in grade school was to write a business letter ordering something. I was about 7 or 8 and ordered a Porpoise Model CA single hose scuba tank, regulator, fins, weights, dive knife etc. The poo
Finally! (Score:2)
thousands of years doing it already (Score:5, Interesting)
Poor Hennessey. (Score:2)
Asimov? (Score:1)
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Waterclap
Doesn't get too interesting untill they find Adam (Score:1)
Rapture? (Score:2, Funny)
Where's my frickin... (Score:1)
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Funny. (Score:2, Interesting)
I've dove in that lagoon and checked out the labs they have there. One is used as a hotel that you can book a room in, the other is a lab. It cracked me up that through the window of the research lab I could see a small fish tank with a fish in it.
Unda da sea (Score:5, Funny)
Thank you for that lame song in my head all day.
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Glad I'm not suffering alone. The first thing I though was "I wonder if they can build them pineapple shaped?"
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Gah! Now you've infected us all!
Good luck calling 911 (Score:1, Insightful)
Water cooling your servers might be easier--as long as the saltwater doesn't corrode your fittings.
Best leave this to plant growth labs instead of primary living quarters.
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You're kidding me right?
Deliveries go to a PO box at a nearby port (for now, otherwise in the future you can bet UPS will have subs -- business will adapt). Service calls would be handled by the local techs in the /community/, fresh water will of course have to be shipped in or desalinated, poop will feed the plants (or the kelp, it's the freakin ocean, plenty of things poop in it as-is (including us)), electric comes from whatever the handiest source happens to be (there's always tidal but I would say geot
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Yes, and then?
> (for now, otherwise in the future you can bet UPS will have subs -- business will adapt).
Just like they've adapted and started delivering to the various research bases in Antarctica?
The thing is, as impractical as an undersea colony would be, it would still be useful -- as a demonstration of some of the reasons why the moon colonies people keep proposing aren't practical.
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thats easy "isolation pods" ,sarcophagus or whatever you want to call a box with a stretcher (which could be attached to floats)
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Is there any info on what depths we are talking? it seems that would have a huge impact on the difficulty of evacuation.
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Yeah I'm torn between "visionary" and "crackpot." Besides the beautiful scenery, what exactly is the purpose of living underwater? You can't go outside. You won't have any neighbors per se. The whole house has got to be completely self-sufficient, which means expensive and perfect, and you can't make improvements to it. So much for teaching your kids to play baseball or mowing the lawn. And the lack of sunshine is a psychological disaster waiting to happen.
In short, I think you're going to spend the en
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In the video he specifically addresses these concerns.
It's not an exile. You can go outside into the surrounding sea and to the surface (either by swimming there directly or taking a vehicle).
Not everything needs to be made underwater. Trade between land and sea will be important. The goal is merely to make that capacity available. Furthermore, even if everything is made underwater it won't be a single habitat that is self-sufficient, but rather a whole community of habitats. Friends, jobs, shopping, etc. w
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The only difference between "crackpot" and "visionary" is the degree of of appeal the crack/vision holds for you.
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The only difference between "crackpot" and "visionary" is the degree of of appeal the crack/vision holds for you.
I am with ya, a few years ago I stated that people would at some point, start living under the water due to cosmic rays and solar radiation concerns. People thought I was a crack pot for suggesting it, I still stand by my statements and think it is a valid line of research.
Crack pot or no, think of the view from your porch.
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Yeah I'm torn between "visionary" and "crackpot." Besides the beautiful scenery, what exactly is the purpose of living underwater? You can't go outside. You won't have any neighbors per se. The whole house has got to be completely self-sufficient, which means expensive and perfect, and you can't make improvements to it. So much for teaching your kids to play baseball or mowing the lawn. And the lack of sunshine is a psychological disaster waiting to happen.
So basically you're saying that this will make an almost perfect selection process for future astronauts.
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>perfect selection process for future astronauts
Well yeah, exactly. It's when he mentions having kids underwater that I got creeped out.
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The more I think about it, the more I come to actually like this scenario.
I live closer to the city, and with some of my neighbors - barking dogs, yelling drunken fights etc. It gets old pretty quick, and having something underwater means it can be as quiet as me and my wife want it to be.
I'm fine with people, but I'd rather come home and not have to deal with neighbors. I know, I could move, but financially right now is not the time to do it.
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Submarine hardware is presumably rather worse. Particularly with the speculative crash in some of the formerly pricey exurban developments, it'll be a cold day in hell before submarines are cheaper than suburbs if you want peace and quiet(and, for everybody who isn't a field marine biologist, the commute will still be better).
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That's a false dichotomy. It's entirely possible to be both.
Pioneers... (Score:2)
I'm not much of a pioneer, so this 4-person habitat doesn't sound like my thing, but wake me when they've got it up to a few thousand people and internet access and it could be fun to live there.
Moon pool? (Score:2)
This underwater colony sounds awesome. Would you kindly reserve me an apartment there?
Incidentally - will the moon pool be filled with moon milk [wikipedia.org]?
Anybody Remember Seaquest (Score:2, Informative)
There was a SciFi series called Seaquest DSV Starring Roy Sheider. TheSub of the title went round patrolling among undersea colonies.
The second season was called Seaquest 2032.
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Woah, I didn't know he killed himself aged 27 because of the flak over that role (or other reasons). That's really unfortunate. I liked him in it! (and the other two characters I mentioned).
Beneath the surface.. (Score:2)
lies the future! SeaQuest FTW
Cool show.. except for when it went (way) off the rails on occasion.
About damn time we started colonizing the ocean one way or another.. there's a whole lot of space out there!
below sea level (Score:2, Funny)
Having lived below sea level in Holland for the most of my life: duh.
"A new generation of children will be born there & (Score:2)
$there is "space" on even decades, "ocean" on odd?
Except for $there, the mantra seems to have been reiterated unchanged ever since Jules Verne or so.
Rapture? (Score:1)
I am Andrew Ryan, and I am here to ask you a question: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?
No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor.
No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God.
No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone.
I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...
Rapture!
A city where the artist would not fear the censors.
Where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality.
Where the great would not be constrained by the small.
With the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well.
Yay! (Score:2)
... no more having to mow the lawn.
But... (Score:2)
You still have to trim the kelp and de-barnacle the roof.
Global warming solution. . . (Score:5, Funny)
Here we go - just start replacing current coastal buildings with these, and when the sea level rises 8 or 10 feet, everyone will be ready.
[JohnHodgemanVoice]You're welcome![/JohnHodgemanVoice]
Letting Leviathan loose 1st,and growing from there (Score:2)
A page right out of the Illuminatus! trilogy. Eye optional? ;-)
So for once they let someone work for NASA [slashdot.org] who knows his conspiracy literature.
Best tongue-in-cheek mission name ever since the obviously Doom-playing Russians calling theirs Phobos [slashdot.org]-Grunt [slashdot.org].
Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
.
Some people have brought up sea-steading or escaping tyrannical governments, but wouldn't a cruise ships fill that role more effectively at a fraction of the cost? (That's assuming the thinking of the movement is sound. The French are not exactly tyrants, but they had no problem bombing that green-peace vessel in the 80's. If you're rich enough to live in an underwater city, you're probably better off buying your way into to a nice Western Country...)
Maybe I'm missing something. Feel free to fill me in.
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Once you pass outside of 25 miles off of the coast of the US, you are in international waters. You can do whatever the hell you want to, as long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself. Funny, that's how the US proper used to be...
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Basically, it's not allowed to "own" parcels of ocean far off the coast, and everything you do is subject to the International Tribunal of the law of the Sea or the International Seabed Authority.
The whole "International Waters as a free-for-all" thing is really a bit of a myth.
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Like moving to another, living underwater might keep you safe from certain mass extinction events on the surface of the Earth.
We could also build a city a few hundred feet under the surface. Wouldn't be able to sustain it without the resources on the surface for quite a while yet, though.
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I know, preview... bah, I still wish I could edit slashdot posts. *another planet, of course.
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Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Oblig Simpsons (Score:3, Funny)
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How is this being financed? (Score:5, Funny)
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Giant Sea Monsters! (Score:2)
mm memory serves me (Score:2)
James Bond has already dealt with this menace
You have to look with better eyes than that. (Score:3, Insightful)
There have been underwater habitats off of key largo for a while now, since the sixties, at least, and from what I've seen (in ads for UW vacations, and a discovery special about a UMD research vessel) they're pretty cramped. Also, they're saturation dives albeit shallow ones.
I wouldn't want to live in anything with a moon pool for the saturation reason alone, leaving out the small space and constant danger. It certainly wouldn't be a good place to raise a family (what would extended saturation dives do for children's developing bones, I wonder.)
Considering the expense and danger, these things will always be just a curiosity. A pretty neat one, though. I wish they'd kept the Abyss set open for dive tourism. That would've been a pretty awesome dive.
That IS a curiosity... (Score:2)
Yeah, that's gonna get built.
Dubai is way over-extended, credit wise, and palm jumeira is undersold, let alone the "Dubai World" artificial archipelago. You think there's money for a giant submarine?
In fact, checking the web site, http://www.hydropolis.com/ [hydropolis.com], it looks like they haven't even broken ground on the brochure.
Hygiene (Score:5, Interesting)
The thing they didn't cover very much, is the one thing that is actually most important: hygiene.
Bacteria and especially fungi absolutely thrive under pressure, and a mild case of Athlete's Foot can rapidly become severe, even hazardous as the infection gets worse. Fungal infections were one of the most serious problems onboard the previous endeavors, as they were impossible to eradicate once established in the living areas. Bacterial infections were even more dangerous, as the partial pressure ratio of gases in the atmosphere-and also the bloodstream-effectively doubles, giving the bugs plenty of fuel.
They did touch on the hygiene issue with the shower, but didn't say why other than the obvious reasons? But if you're going to live underwater, under more than one atmosphere, hygiene becomes absolutely vital.
he's patented the key technology (Score:3, Interesting)
Dennis Chamberland: "So, the key problem is carbon dioxide scrubbing"
Interviewer: "And you've solved it?"
Dennis Chamberland: "Yep!"
Interviewer: "So, what is it?"
Dennis Chamberland: "I'd lose my patent if I told you."
So, basically, he wants us all to live underwater, paying patent royalties to him. You'll be paying for two gas bills- one to heat your underwater habitat, the other to breathe.
I'd really like to know how someone working on this for NASA managed to get a patent. That patent should be public property.
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Lose his patent? (Score:2)
Dennis Chamberland: "I'd lose my patent if I told you."
Can that actually happen?
My understanding was that the whole point of patents is that you could tell everybody about your invention and still keep a claim to exclusive licensing power.
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Indeed. In fact in the patent itself you are supposed to describe the invention in enough detail that an expert in the field could implement it from that description. That's the deal - you get a government-mandated, limited-time monopoly, we get the full details of your invention so we can utilise it when that monopoly ends.
I am not a lawyer or a patent examiner, but it sounds like bullshit to me.
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If so, it means it's a patent application he's "thinking about" but hasn't actually filed yet.
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If he does have a better CO2 capture method, he should use it to capture CO2 from the air, as CO2 + Hydrogen = gasoline.
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He’s a total idiot:
Dennis Chamberland: "I'd lose my patent if I told you."
All patents are by definition published openly! Or else nobody could check if it’s patented. Here’s one I found in a 5 second Google search: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090054763 [faqs.org]
A new life, under the sea (Score:2)
Under the sea,
under the sea.
No accusations,
just friendly crustaceans,
under the sea.
Another source for the video? (Score:2)
The video isn't playing for me. Is there another version out there? I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMCtzuEoOlM [youtube.com] , but it's only a short ad.
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Here's a little more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihoWNnEZ5zg [youtube.com] Again, it isn't a full doco, but it shows what the place looks like.
Aquarius habitat has been doing this for decades (Score:1)
It's very peculiar that nowhere in the discussion here or Chamberland's video does anyone mention NOAA's Aquarius habitat, in operation since 1988: http://www.uncw.edu/aquarius/ [uncw.edu] . Aquarius has been in operation as a civilian research station underwater off Key Largo for years. Before that it was in the Virgin Islands. It is operated by NOAA (the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) for marine biology research and NASA training. It's an amazing place where researchers get to do 10-day research pr
Like 2012 (Score:1)
I saw the movie where everything is almost underwater in the movie 2012, and i think learning to build big mobile underwater habitats is a wickedly good idea, just in case...i'm just saying