Herschel Space Observatory Finds Precursors of Life In Orion 142
ogre7299 recommends an announcement out of Caltech on a milestone for HIFI, the Herschel Space Observatory's Heterodyne Instrument for the Far Infrared. "The Herschel Space Observatory has revealed the chemical fingerprints of potential life-enabling organic molecules in the Orion Nebula, a nearby stellar nursery in our Milky Way galaxy. ... This detailed-spectrum, obtained with the Heterodyne Instrument for the Far Infrared (HIFI) — one of Herschel's three innovative instruments — demonstrates the gold mine of information that Herschel-HIFI will provide on how organic molecules form in space. The spectrum, one of the first to be obtained with HIFI since it returned to full health in January 2010 following technical difficulties, clearly demonstrates that the instrument is working well. ... [The HIFI instrument had previously been offline since] August 2009 when HIFI experienced an unexpected voltage spike in the electronic system, probably caused by a high-energy cosmic particle, resulting in the instrument shutting down. On 14 January 2010, HIFI was successfully switched back on using its spare electronics, with science observations commencing on 28 February."
Nuke it! (Score:3, Funny)
It's the only way to be sure!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The orion nebula is (very) roughly spherical, with a radius of 12 ly. It's about 1344ly away. Developing the technology to deliver millions of nukes across hundreds of parsecs might well be the sort of stimulus are planet needs to crawl out of this recession.
Re:Nuke it! (Score:5, Funny)
pedant:
are = The second-person singular and plural forms of the verb "to be",
our = Our is the possessive determiner of the personal pronoun "we".
Rrr = What a pirate or old sea captain says.
Re: (Score:2)
Hmm. Perhaps, I should of used the preview function.
Re: (Score:2)
Should HAVE used it this time round, too.
Re: (Score:1)
"Hmm. Perhaps, I should of used the preview function." :^)
Hmm. Perhaps, I should have used the preview function.
ftfy
*whooosh*
Re: (Score:1)
The correct formulation is "can't see the wood for the trees".
No it isn't! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It's, "..can't see the forest for the trees".
It's "plenty of fish in the seas". I suppose there is some audible similarity, but let's not loose sight of the big picture by focusing on the details.
*Yes, I threw that "loose" in their instead of "lose" to annoy the pedants. Can you find the other one? Mail a letter to Lord British at Origin Systems detailing your accomplishment!
DNA in spaaaaace. (Score:3, Funny)
Can pigs be far behind
Re: (Score:2)
My dad was out driving in country Western Australia once where the roads are seriously straight, remote and flat. He passes this line across the road. One kilometre ahead there is a second line with a sign, something like police aircraft speed detection.
Some smartarse had updated the sign by appending "pigs in space".
Definition of "working well" (Score:1, Funny)
"The spectrum [...] clearly demonstrates that the instrument is working well."
Yep, we got a result that's good for some headlines, so clearly the system is working well! Otherwise, we'd have had to conclude it's still not working.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh no! They make headlines with the device! It's obviously corrupted and not pure Science!
Re: (Score:2)
Not Science? Not Science???
I'm doing a series of papers on the Procedural Generation of Headlines in Science Journals, you insensitive clod!
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, we got a result that's good for some headlines, so clearly the system is working well!
The "Headline of the month club"?
That's one giant leap below the "Publication of the month club". Less effort, too.
So that's where he went! (Score:2)
God isn't dead, he just moved to Orion!
M.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
But, did God need a starship to get there?
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:So that's where he went! (Score:5, Funny)
He went in an attack ship, but it caught fire. I've seen it.
So, what next? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:So, what next? (Score:5, Insightful)
We send a probe? We rejoice in the fact that there is life outside of Earth, that there is strong possibility we are not the only intelligent life in this Universe?
Also prepare for our new overlords.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
We send a probe?
... which we don't sterilize properly or which picks up life earth has scattered around the solar system. Then this type of life, which has a hundreds of millions of years head start, kills all the native life. But that might explain the Star Trek nose-ridge aliens.
I would really want to leave another planet with no interesting life alone so see what other molecular bases support life.
Re:So, what next? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who ever said the probe had to land on the planet?
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, more likely NASA will get their feet and meters mixed up again and the probe will spectacularly crash on the planet.
In the process of crashing it will probably also wipe out a budding otter civilization.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Do you know something we don't know about advances in beam-up technology? Of course the probe has to land to get access to the butts to be probed. And butts need probing. Aliens always do that. And in this case, the aliens are us!
Re: (Score:2)
You're a rather silly person to assume they have a "butt."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What if they excrete through their entire body?
Re: (Score:2)
You're a rather silly person to assume they have a "butt."
So what you are saying, is that 'thing' that happend to me all those years ago was just the alien's way of shaking hands?
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
We send a large fleet of Death-Stars armed with Stellar-Converters to exterminate those Antareans,
Re: (Score:2)
Celebrate! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
No. That is the great thing about faith, it can not be proven wrong. Evidence will be ignored by certain groups, some more than others, we still have flat earthers, people who claim that cell phones make them ill and vegans. I could claim 1 + 1 != 2 all day long and still believe it even if you whip out page 379 of Principia Mathematica.
Re: (Score:1)
Arggggggggggggg the Principia Mathematica. Why did you mention that on a Sunday? I was trying to forget about Russell.
Re: (Score:2)
Can you show me the page in Principia Mathematica where it proves the assumed axioms? It seems you have to start with something to get something.
Scientists and Mathematicians aren't immune to blind faith.
Re: (Score:2)
Not off the top of my head, I believe they at least define addition. But its not exactly what I would call light reading.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Can evidence of even primitive life in galaxies so far away that they may not even exist now disprove all geocentric religions?
Probably about as well as the existence of native americans wiped out Christianity in 1492. Err, that's not quite how it turned out.
Considering how televangelists and shortwave broadcasters like to spend money, to blast people whom aren't interested with religious indoctrination, I'd suggest buying stock in companies that manufacture large satellite dishes and high power transmitters. Also expect at attempt at missionary activity (and by missionary activity, I'm not talking about the position).
Of course t
Re: (Score:2)
Don't forget your own arrogance in assuming the Aliens do not believe in Gods or have their own religions.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think that was arrogance. I think he simply assumed they would be smarter than humans.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Can evidence of even primitive life in galaxies so far away that they may not even exist now disprove all geocentric religions? (e.g. the Abrahamic faiths)
I frequently see people raise concerns like this. What I don't understand about it is simple: nowhere does the Bible (including the Pentateuch) say "Earth is the one and only place where God created life and there are no aliens of any sort". Or if it says that, I certainly cannot find it and have never received a reference for where it may be found. If it did say that, then I would understand the concerns about extraterrestrial life and the damage it might cause for various religions. So far as I can t
Re: (Score:1)
nowhere does the Bible (including the Pentateuch) say "Earth is the one and only place where God created life and there are no aliens of any sort". Or if it says that, I certainly cannot find it and have never received a reference for where it may be found. If it did say that, then I would understand the concerns about extraterrestrial life and the damage it might cause for various religions.
http://www.roseavenue.org/Who%20we%20are/what%20we%20believe/Bible/complete%20and%20perfect.htm [roseavenue.org]
The Bible is "perfect
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
nowhere does the Bible (including the Pentateuch) say "Earth is the one and only place where God created life and there are no aliens of any sort". Or if it says that, I certainly cannot find it and have never received a reference for where it may be found. If it did say that, then I would understand the concerns about extraterrestrial life and the damage it might cause for various religions.
http://www.roseavenue.org/Who%20we%20are/what%20we%20believe/Bible/complete%20and%20perfect.htm [roseavenue.org]
The Bible is "perfect and complete". If the Bible didn't mention it, it didn't happen.
The way I have always understood that, is that for a Christian, the Bible is "everything you need to know" and it is not "everything that could possibly be known." This is obvious, as the Bible does not mention the transistor, the internal combustion engine, integrated circuits, rock music, rap music, or many other things we now know of. In the sense that it's "everything you need to know" (i.e. to be a Christian) it is indeed perfect and complete. This neither affirms nor denies the existence of extrate
Re:Celebrate! (Score:5, Interesting)
The American Breed of Christian is something totally nuts. I'm a Christian, and I can tell you some of those religious Americans I've met scare me. Truly something else, really *really* narrow-minded, extreme fundamentalist and take the bible literally (WTF?).
I never understood the vitrol some people on /. show towards religion, until I met some of their Christians. It explained a lot, very irritating people, kept shoving god into every discussion or action.
Note: I'm sure there are very many normal Christians there too, just that a minority really really give the rest a bad name (I hope to god they are a minority).
And what's with tele-evangelism? It's like they turned religion into some sort of pay-for entertainment. I didn't get it at all.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
But isn't that because the US was originally founded by European Christians who believed that they were more serious about their religion than their peers?
Re: (Score:2)
But isn't that because the US was originally founded by European Christians who believed that they were more serious about their religion than their peers?
Some of the earliest settlers (colonist period) perhaps but how many of the total number of migrants were puritans as opposed to economic migrants ? When you look at the early US history the attitude towards religion seems to be very enlightened. The current insanity to me seems to coincide with the latter stages of the american imperialist period (post-JFK) and it has been written into the official mythology and rites of power.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You answered the question yourself, I've just emphasized the relevant bit.
Re: (Score:2)
Note: I'm sure there are very many normal Christians there too, just that a minority really really give the rest a bad name (I hope to god they are a minority).
You are wrong. Most Republicans receive the majority of their support from these people. Democrats also receive their support, but to a lesser extent. That there are so many Republicans in government says that at least half the population is like this. Half is not a minority.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Can evidence of even primitive life in galaxies so far away that they may not even exist now disprove all geocentric religions? (e.g. the Abrahamic faiths)
Not any more than evolution has managed to disprove the same religions, I'd wager. Oh there might be life elsewhere, but only man is created directly by God in his image and had Jesus Christ die for our sins. That's the true arrogance in those religions, not whether there's some überpowerful guy who runs the universe but that we humans are so important to him. If we were 7 billion whiny ants to him, God would still be God but religion wouldn't have nearly the same appeal.
Re: (Score:2)
It depends how far, far away they are...
Re: (Score:2)
Not rats but 'Space Herring' (Score:2)
I like the idea of space herring for a couple of reasons. It would lend credence to the poem 'Wynken, Blynken and Nod' which mom read to me as a child and it would give the Discovery Channel something to look forward to other than another case of crabs.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:So, what next? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want to rank life forms according to some arbitrary scale from most to least advanced, you'll find that rats are just as advanced as humans. Their body chemistry is almost identical to ours, they exhibit high intelligence and ability to solve problems. They outnumber humans worldwide, and their high reproductive rate allows them to evolve much faster than us, they probably go through 100 generations for each human generation.
Re: (Score:2)
Humans kill rats at will... if we really wanted to we could wipe them out, its just a matter of them being good at hiding and your average human having other things to worry about or not caring that much. I would say that ability (although hypothetical, try imagining rats wiping humans out on purpose...) makes humans more advanced.
Re: (Score:1)
Well maybe rats is not a good example.
Now think about ants. Good luck wiping those out!
Re: (Score:2)
If you put 1000 humans out in the wilderness, naked and without any tools, you'd soon see how advanced we are as a lifeform.
Indeed we would. Notice how you didn't pick a 'wilderness'. Did you mean to say Savannah, Rainforest, Alpine, Coastal, Arid, Temperate Forest wilderness? Because there is a good chance that 1000 people would quickly adapt to their situation as long as it wasn't immediately lethal to unprotected bodies (Arctic, Desert, etc). I can virtually guarantee that if you dropped ME off in t
Re: (Score:2)
yea I guess youre right... the real criteria should be which species gets into space first thus allowing the multitudinous spawn of mother earth to spread ever farther throughout the solar system. I guess in that case, though, bacteria may have still won out just because they're more hardy, diverse, and adaptable... but if there are crazy comet based earth descendants of earth bacteria or whatever, they didnt bring any other life along with them, or at least not as many as humans probably could.
Seriously th
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, so lets say we do find life even as advanced as, say, rats. What do we do with that information? Especially if its so far out that we can't possibly make it to that planet?
We reduce our ignorance as a species. You see, science is about discovering the truths of the universe, regardless of whether or not certain truths are applicable to profitable business plans.
Re: (Score:1)
Great point. We should probably stop any and all science that doesn't have direct, actionable results. Like stop sending robots to the bottom of the ocean. It's not like we'll ever move down there...
Re: (Score:1)
Hmph! (Score:2)
Everyone knows there isn't a galaxy on Orion's belt!
Reverse optical psychology (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds extremely oversimplified to me... I don‘t think that organic material necessarily has a different spectrum.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Umm, no.
1. You are assuming that all life works in the same way, that it will be based directly on absorption of solar energy.
2. Even if it was happening as such, the amount of light absorbed by life in any part of the spectrum represents an unbelievably small fraction of the total solar output. On Earth, the total radiations received is ~1% of total solar output. And of course, plants use a fraction of that energy. To detect this over cosmic scales, you would need an instrument with sensitivity that is
Re: (Score:2)
I have done infrared spectroscopy so I understand what you are saying about the ability to identify specific bond types or umbrella scattering. I am al
Re: (Score:1)
Why did they wait 5 months? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
To make sure that switching over would not cause problems of its own. One does not make changes to spacecraft operations lightly.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Five months is an awfully long time to spend scratching your head if you've got a redundant string ready to be switched on.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
OK so their instrument had an upset. That sort of thing happens in space. Why did it take them 5 months to switch over to the redundant string?
It took them 5 months to switch over to the redundant system because they wanted to be sure that they fully understood what happened with the first failure. The problem was that there wasn't software protection for the critical systems.
They then had to put preventative measures in place to ensure that it didn't happen to the redundant system; otherwise they would be screwed. The HIFI instrument has some of the most discovery potential and its capabilities cannot be duplicated from earth or and only partly w
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Very Old News (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Dogon already knew of the existance of life in Orion centuries ago
Unfortunately (for it is a rather cool story) there is convincing evidence that it was cultural contamination (see Walter E. A. van Beek: "Dogon Restudied: A Field Evaluation of the Work of Marcel Griaule." Current Anthropology, 32 (1991): 139-167).
What we REALLY want to know (Score:4, Insightful)
Are they green, and if so - are they female?
Herschel's seen things you people wouldn't believe (Score:3, Interesting)
- Herschel Space Observatory's last transmission before deorbiting, November 2019
Oblig (Score:1)
no nerds here (Score:2)
A story about possible life in Orion and not a single comment about green slave women? What is wrong with you people?
Now, get off my lawn.
Diplomatic envoys (Score:1)
I was thinking maybe
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds good, but I'll recommend Sarah Palin in place of Bill Clinton. I think she uh, connects with people better, yeah. And this all sounds too America-centric, I think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should go along too, you know, for diversity.
Then they can all go in a "flawed" landing craft that burns up in the alien atmosphere in a "tragic" "accident." >:)
Why are headline so extereme? (Score:1)
Why is astronomy layman reporting (and global warming, and meteor science) all about the extreme case? Only so many characters in the headline field? Too much character in the headline writer? Thing is you're wearing out the reader - in a few more generations the only way for this story to get noticed will be "Aliens From Orion On Their Way To Eat You".
Re: (Score:2)
Thing is you're wearing out the reader - in a few more generations the only way for this story to get noticed will be "Aliens From Orion On Their Way To Eat You".
It looks like The Register is just ahead of the curve then.
Not Guildford after all (Score:2)
Find life or we're dead meat (Score:1)
I hope they find Life soon
It would be a bummer if Planet earth was on a list for demolition and since planet earth hasn't so far found life we haven't found out that our planet was scheduled for demolition.
and they say your planet has been scheaduled for demoliton you (planet earth) have not replyed there for your planet will be destroyed for an interglatic teleportation byway
Organic Molecules (Score:5, Informative)
---
Radio Astronomy [feeddistiller.com] Feed @ Feed Distiller [feeddistiller.com]
All That Precursing Going On (Score:2)
"Herschel Space Observatory Finds Precursors of Life In Orion"
I called Orion and let him know about this. He said he was well aware he had precursors of life inside, but failed to see how a telescope could be used in place of a microscope and an, um, sample to make this determination. When he asked where I got this from I told him. My son thanks you all for your concern, and promises to take due care when handling his precursors and resulting cursors, as long as you'll promise to point your telescope at som
Fund raising... (Score:1)
1. Researcher claims "possibility of life on X".
2. Publicity
3. President writes a letter. Bill Clinton (1997): “It speaks of the possibility of life. If this discovery is confirmed, it will surely be one of the most stunning insights into our Universe that science has ever uncovered. Its implications are as far-reaching and awe-inspiring as can be imagined.”
4. Profit.
5. Loop 1-4
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/03/06/0252237/California-Lakes-Arsenic-Hints-At-a-Shadow-Biosphere [slashdot.org]
http://science.s [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
But God is by definition "life elsewhere."
If you want to really shake a religionist to the core, find an extraterrestrial that doesn't age or die, lives in a paradise/heaven, and knows nothing of the LORD God or ole sweet Jesus. That will break their faith if anything will.
Re:Hurry already (Score:4, Insightful)
"The moment life is detected else where will once and for end the silly notion of god or religion."
Because?
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
My guess is the death rays.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
The problem is what if they're not advanced enough (at the caveman stage or earlier) or too advanced (past using fossil fuels (if they ever needed/had them) and have re-stabilized their climate) or some planet just heated up relatively quickly for some other reason (maybe an asteroid impact or large volcanic eruption that wasn't detected)?
Your test only works for a pretty narrow set of conditions and could give a lot of false positives, plus you'd be looking for temperature changes over hundreds or thousand