Spray-On Liquid Glass 293
bLanark writes with news of a new substance that can be sprayed on for a durable, easy-to-clean film on almost any substance, hard or soft. The liquid glass is essentially pure silicon dioxide, and it goes on in a layer 15 to 30 atoms thick. It is breathable and flexible, but waterproof and resistant to bacterial growth. The patent is held by a German company, Nanopool, which is in discussion with many parties about a wide range of uses: keeping public spaces sanitary, keeping restaurants clean, and keeping cars or trains clean. "The spray forms a water-resistant layer, meaning it can be cleaned using only water. Trials by food-processing companies showed that sterile surfaces covered with a film of liquid glass were equally clean after a rinse with hot water as after their usual treatment with strong bleach."
winshield repair? (Score:4, Interesting)
Can I now avoid costly windshield replacements by simply spraying this stuff on my windshield after a ding storm, or crack?
Because that'd be nice.
Re:winshield repair? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:winshield repair? (Score:5, Funny)
Commando baby, it's the only way.
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Can't you just spray more then?
Actually, this quite possibly could be useful. (Score:3, Interesting)
I know this was meant as a joke, but the way wind shields are repaired is essentially spraying in some clear liquid which hardens. It might be difficult to use this spray to get a clear windshield, but the key thing which causes cracks to run is the sharpness of the crack. If this could be sprayed in soon after the crack forms, it may keep the crack from running by blunting the crack tip.
Re:winshield repair? (Score:5, Informative)
Can I now avoid costly windshield replacements by simply spraying this stuff on my windshield after a ding storm, or crack?
The problem with having a crack isn't the divot where the crack started, it's the leading end of the crack. When you apply stress to a material that has a crack, the force per unit area at the tip of the crack approaches infinity, so what you have to do to keep the crack from spreading is increase its area. That's why windshield repair people drill holes at the ends of the cracks and then fill them.
Even if your intent is just to fill the much smaller divots in the glass, 30 molecules thick isn't going to make much difference. What you need is a material that has roughly the same index of refraction as the glass, that you can spread over the divots like makeup.
Think bigger (Score:5, Interesting)
Forget your windshield, think YOUR ENTIRE CAR!
No more clear coats, no more waxing, no more "rubberized under coating". If it is cheap, and light enough, you could coat every body panel and frame member with the stuff, virtually guarantying a rust proof existence.
-Rick
Or even bigger (Score:2)
Or entire -train- cars. In europe, they all seem to be coated in stupid spray paint logos from lazy taggers.
Several organisations are said to be testing the product, including a train company in Britain, which is using liquid glass on both the interior and exterior of the train,
I'm guessing they're hoping this will prevent idiots from vandalizing trains, since why would you care about dirt being on your freight train. Then again, shipping companies might not care much about vandalism anyway.
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Weight. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the weight of all the dust and dirt on a large freight train added up to hundreds of pounds, possibly coming close to a ton on some of the largest ones. Hauling all that extra weight cross-country adds to the fuel costs. If the dust and dirt don't cling to this coating very well, it may well pay for itself quickly in lowered fuel costs in a very short time.
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One ton on a 1000 or even more ton train is nothing. Even on one wagon it's not really something to worry about.
Re:Think bigger (Score:4, Informative)
While it might make a nice coat for the paint job, it is likely that a glass coating is not very suitable for parts that undergo sharp mechanical stresses, like the suspension.
But more to the point: undercoats in general have been found to be a bad idea. They tend to encourage destructive corrosion wherever they are compromised, while parts without such an impermeable waterproof coating will rust more gracefully.
Re:Think bigger (Score:4, Interesting)
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I've often wondered if a sacrificial zinc would help postpone corrosion on land vehicles. I don't think there would be enough conductivity to create a closed circuit and protect an automotive chassis and body. After checking on wikipedia I think my skepticism is valid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_anode [wikipedia.org]
Meh (Score:2)
Cracks up to a few inches long can be sealed already with existing resins that windshield replacement/repair companies use, and most insurance policies (at least here in the US) cover repair for free with no deductible; only full replacements incur such.
Re:Meh (Score:5, Informative)
Theoretically, any strong material that will fill the crack and prevent moisture from entering should stop the cracking process. I don't see why a film of silicon dioxide would not work as well as resin.
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Your point? (I would assume that people would take precautions to avoid breathing the stuff as they spray.)
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Re:winshield repair? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, "play sand" is still almost entirely silicon dioxide, just like "regular sand."
The only difference is that the play sand has been washed and screened so that it has less dust and a more uniform grain size. The fact is, "toxic" silicon dioxide is all around us, and we all breathe some amount of it in every single day. Silicosis only becomes an issue for people that breathe in large amounts of it on a regular basis - i.e. people who work 40+ hours a week in fine-dust-generating industries. If the silicon dioxide found in "regular sand" was truly a health hazard, then every beach in California would be outlawed (or at least coated in warning stickers) telling you to keep away. Hasn't ever happened, and never will, since casual exposure from playing in sand is not a silicosis hazard in any way.
Another thing to consider is that given the typical chemical makeup of rocks and sand is that if it were even possible to remove all the "harmful" SiO2 from sand all you'd be left with was a fine dust of metals and trace elements which would be harmful if played in.
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There's another difference between "play sand" in a sandbox, and "regular sand:" The urine content.
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Actually, the fine dust is what causes silicosis, not the grains you find on the beach. The more fine dust there is in it, the worse for you it is. That's why sand blasting requires protective gear and throwing sand around in the sandbox doesn't.
A nano-particle spray is going to be much worse than the dust from sandblasting.
That's the elephant in the room for the various nanoparticle consumer products, just about any solid turned into a fine dust will destroy your lungs. The only thing special about asbesto
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YOU TAKE YOUR KIDS TO THE BEACH?!
What about the:
pedophiles
dragons
terrorists
sex offenders
gangs
thieves
nudism
potential broken glass
jellyfish
wet material probably filled with all sorts of bacterial life, possibly even HIV, hep or any others.
needles
drugs
BRIGHT FIRE BALL IN THE SKY
Damn, beaches are dangerous. /paranoid parents
I hate these past few decades, they need to die. :(
Too Bad (Score:4, Funny)
Too bad "ManInTheWhiteSuit" is too long of a tag.
What a great movie.
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diamond (Score:2)
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Well, in theory it wouldn't really be that hard to do; we can already synthesise very small diamonds.
Although, from my limited understanding of the field, you'd really want the glass instead, at the 100-300 molecule level.
New? Really? (Score:2)
I'm not so sure this is any different, or new for that matter.
Bill
Re:New? Really? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:New? Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm curious about the strength of such a coating; there doesn't not appear to be any suggestion that the glass is bonded to the surface by anything stronger than van der Waals forces.
If the short-chains bond to each other, some of them might bond to the surface (if its structure is appropriate).
Even if not, unless the surface is mirror-smooth it will have irregularities. A liquid that cross-links into a solid will wrap such irregularities and form a mechanical interference bond - like a surface wrapped under a rivet, a mushroom-shaped extension into a void, or a root into a crack.
Van der Walls forces are not trivial - especially between form-fitted irregularly-shaped solids. And if the "glass" and its substrate have any charge asymmetry the setting glass will also tend to settle into place with opposite charges nearby, forming something like a hydrogen bond.
This might stick on to many surfaces very well.
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That should either be "doesn't" or "does not," and not my indecisive combination of the two, which alters meaning somewhat. On another note, I can't figure out how this liquid glass stuff is supposed to work as a product. The "liquid glass" manufacturers suggest it can be made into a spray in water or ethanol, but it apparently dries to form a waterproof coating. They claim to use no additives, but I'm not sure how aggregation of suspended silica is prevented
Silicosis? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Silicosis? (Score:4, Insightful)
If it's that thing of a layer, wont it be prone to breaking off and becoming airborne? Sounds like silicosis-fun-times to me.
Yeah. Silica-based glass is not very hard. Although this coating is reportedly flexible, I'm betting that it will be readily breached with a sharp edge, so that the example application, on food processing surfaces, at least ones that come in contact with knives, tools and containers, won't be that useful. Stainless steel works by more-or-less the same idea (a thin, hard oxide forms at the surface), except that it has the advantage that when -- not if -- the oxide layer is damaged, a new one automatically forms.
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Cutting boards made of glass are quite common. To be fair, though, I believe they are of somewhat different composition.
And they're thick. Scratch the surface, and there is still glass beneath. With the waterproof coating, once the silica layer has been breached, all of the nice properties are lost and, as the great grandparent posting suggests, the coating will likely start to flake off. While the waterproofing characteristics are very interesting, I'm betting there is a lot of hard work left to make the coating durable enough for an industrial food processing setting.
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first thing I thought of too... these guys are going to have a fun time with European regulators.
Breatheable? (Score:2)
I always wanted waterproof lungs.
touchscreen (Score:2)
Ah now i can finally keep my touchscreen from getting greasy...
(Or does it interfere with its operation?)
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Somehow I doubt spraying a glass coating on your glass touch screen is going to do you much good. Probably the opposite since glass touch screens are supposed to have oil repellant coatings.
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But will it get you high when you snort it? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:But will it get you high when you snort it? (Score:5, Insightful)
OP was pointing out that spraying a thin layer of a substance that is known to damage the lungs when inhaled over everything you own is a good way of ensuring said damage to your lungs.
EROSION, people. Most mountains are made of solid granite a harder substance than glass a glass shell, yet they are scoured into sand over time by the simple act of the wind blowing particulate against them. A glass shell over your counter-top is going to be silicon dust in the air in a few months of use, if it lasts that long.
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A glass shell over your counter-top is going to be silicon dust in the air in a few months of use, if it lasts that long.
My house is full of windows. It's not full of silicon dust.
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But I do toss stuff onto my counters all the time. Abrasive stuff like my keys, heavy stuff like cast iron pots, and even just sharp and pointy stuff like a pile of silverware.
You mean similar to the way people slam cast iron pots and piles of silverware onto glass cooker tops, cutting boards, etc?
We use glass a hell of a lot, and silicosis is not a problem. You're going to need evidence to back up your statement.
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You really seem to be getting caught up on not being able to tell the difference between something that is 30 atoms thick and something that is a quarter of an inch thick and made of tempered glass [wikipedia.org] rather than raw silica.
Unless you think this process includes popping the coated object in a forge, again I say: Apples -> Oranges.
Re:But will it get you high when you snort it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not that this is really relevant (your point stands), but you've got some geological details wrong (IAAG).
Most mountains have a lot of granite, yes, so I'll start with that - first, your assertion that granite is harder than glass is perhaps technically true, but there are several things to consider. Granite is composed primarily of quartz (hardness 7) and feldspar (hardness 6) while plate glass is traditionally considered to be hardness 5.5. Fine. But - glass is structurally solid and homogeneous, while granite is composed of a bunch of different mineral crystals stuck together, some of which (like biotite) might be considerably softer. This heterogeneity likely weakens the overall structure of granite (though this is far outside my areas of expertise within geology and material science).
Most erosion in mountains comes from water, not wind. Wind is significant but only in certain areas in certain types of rock - think Arches National Park in Utah, with those wind-blown formations in sandstone, a very weak rock. For water to do anything, you need either something that will react chemically (which pure silicon shouldn't as far as I know) or you need mechanical action. This can be freezing and thawing like what cracks the roadway, or water carrying particulate over the surface (like in a stream). Again, with such a smooth, homogeneous surface, I don't see this being a problem... you don't really see erosion on glass windows, for example, even sloped ones.
Erosion over hard surfaces (such as granite) is a big part of my research. It is extremely slow. How much erosion happens to rock counter tops, for example? Not all of those are granite, by the way, though they may be called that at home depot - there's a very wide range of minerals that goes into counter tops, many of which are soft enough to be eroded quite easily.
And anyway - the "particulate" you mentioned as eroding mountains is particles of rock and mineral. Hard stuff. Unless you cook with sand, I really don't see this being a problem.
What I'd be worried about is what happens in an impact. If you drop something heavy and sharp-edged on it, is it going to break? Even small breaks give you the opportunity for erosion as discussed. If this stuff fractures easily, then my points are partially invalid. It doesn't seem like that's the case, though. Seems like pretty great stuff.
Anti-graffiti? (Score:4, Insightful)
I wonder if this could help make graffiti removal easier. Spray this on a clean road sign, and then just wash it with water if it gets tagged. Sure could help new drivers in Los Angeles.
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I wonder if this could help make graffiti removal easier. Spray this on a clean road sign, and then just wash it with water if it gets tagged. Sure could help new drivers in Los Angeles.
The New York Subway system has been reportedly using teflon coating for exactly this reason for a very long time. Urban pinheads -- ah, I mean artists -- determined to make their mark despite the paint-shedding properties of teflon discovered that you can scratch the surface instead, thus creating what's called scratchiti, a horrible, far more defacing version of graffiti.
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This could lead to graffiti competitions!
Set up some wall, complete with owner's permission, spray this product on it, have the graffiti contestants go at it. Pictures taken, scores noted, wipe it down and then the next contestant does his/her thang.
There could be sponsorships, regional championships and the ultimate Graffiti Bowl (TM)!
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This could lead to graffiti competitions!
Gah, and you got my hopes up. I was hoping for a competition where people try to graffiti a wall as fast as possible while another guy tries to wash the same wall. Give the painter a half-wall head-start and see who wins :D
You've got me? Who's got you? (Score:2, Funny)
It reminds me of the old joke: a young man comes back from his first year as a college chemistry major. His father asks him what he is working on. "We're trying to create the universal solvent."
"What's that?"
"It's a liquid that will dissolve anything."
"What're ya gonna keep it in?"
Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
"What're ya gonna keep it in?"
In a magnetic field, as is done with plasma.
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What if the universal solvent is inert from a electromagnetic standpoint?
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's a solvent, dissolve some iron into it :-P
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Possibly Risky But Highly Useful Nonetheless (Score:3, Informative)
I saw this news item as well, albeit at PhysOrg [physorg.com], which has linked a few interesting related articles. From the comments, it struck me that a concern is indeed the possibility that stray particles from applying this stuff might get into your lungs or on your eyes, causing all sorts of problems since it apparently binds well to organic substances. Also, one wonders what happens if the coating is degraded on food-handling surfaces. Do fragmented microparticles rip up your insides after being carried into your body within contaminated food?
Even with these concerns, of course, I'd love to test this stuff on various less risky surfaces, such as bathroom tiles and shop tools, with appropriate respiratory and eye protection. Being able to use it on a kitchen countertop would just be a welcome bonus if it turns out to be safe for that use after all. (As an aside, I think that use wouldn't breed resistant bacteria since it simply discourages any bacteria at all from growing on the protected surfaces).
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This Almost Sounds Familiar (Score:2)
This product reminds of the one years ago that could provide a thin but very hard layer for vinyl records thus preventing wear (and the noise/distortion that goes with it).
If this material doesn't come off or splinter, maybe it would be good for protecting glasses with plastic lenses?
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Really? If this is so, I want to buy stock in this company. Not that I disbelieve you, but I've never heard of this and it's very exciting news. Every record should come with a coat of this on it...and if the technology is there it could potentially change a lot of the music industry. The only con to a record is that it wears out. If you can give me a record for life (i.e., it gets dusty and skips around? throw it in the dishwasher), I'll pay a premium for it. And I'm sure the professional audio indu
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So you have this recording medium that is based on the idea that you'll make groves in it and run a needle along the groove. Within the groove, you'll have a number of bumps and dips which cause a vibration in the needle, which in turn is transmitted either mechanically or electronically to an amplification device, from whence the sound is actually produced.
And you think it'd be a good idea to attempt to coat said medium with a protective layer of hardened substance, to prevent it from being scratched. Do y
No information (Score:5, Informative)
Anybody else notice that the article has essentially no information on what the stuff is? One thing that it isn't is "we extract molecules of SiO2, and then we add the molecules to water or ethanol," which is what the article tries to imply-- you can't just "add" molecules of silicon dioxide to water, nor to alcohol. So, just exactly what is it?
The actual press release from which this article seem to have been drawn is here [nanopool.eu].
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So, just exactly what is it?
I dunno, but it sounds pretty magical and revolutionary, if you ask me.
Chocolate hardening fat free coating for ice cream (Score:2, Funny)
it's not a conductor! (Score:4, Interesting)
Instant Whiteboard Anywhere (Score:2)
Finally, I can make my life size cut out of Colonel Sanders white-board marker safe.
Finally, Non-nutritive food shellac (Score:2)
Somewhere, Clark Griswold is smiling.
how breakable is it? (Score:3, Funny)
You can spray it? "They called it misted glass!"
Irving Mainway (Score:5, Funny)
I call it "Can o' Glass". Kids love glass, and kids love sprayin' stuff. We just give the kids what they want.
As the glass wears off/down (Score:3, Insightful)
I can feel my lungs beginning to itch, ahhh Silicosis [wikipedia.org] - how nice that EVERYTHING will be covered in a fine layer of silicon that *WILL* wear away and add some lovely fine powdered glass to my daily breathing.
Water resistant? (Score:2)
>"The spray forms a water-resistant layer, meaning it can be cleaned using only water."
Last time I checked, that is NOT the definition of water-resistant. "Water-resistant" means just that- it resists being dissolved by or being penetrated by water. It does not mean it can be "cleaned using only water." ("Water-proof", means it can NOT be dissolved by or penetrated at all by water.) Who writes this stuff??
I, for one,.... (Score:2, Funny)
Clean with distilled water I assume (Score:2)
This is a quartz layer (Score:2)
Pure silicon dioxide, in its glass form, is quartz. This is a scheme for putting a thin quartz film on other materials. That's useful, but not revolutionary. The big improvement here is that it's apparently applied as a liquid solution in air at room temperature, rather than having to be applied at molten quartz temperatures or in vacuum.
meh... (Score:5, Funny)
the concept of spray-on glass is mind-boggling
The concept of spray-on breasts is mind-boggling. The concept of spray-on glass is merely interesting.
Re:All glass is liquid (Score:5, Informative)
Re:All glass is liquid (Score:5, Funny)
Apparently, the parent's parent is a _bad_ chemist.
Re:All glass is liquid (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html
I quote:
<quote>In terms of molecular dynamics and thermodynamics it is possible to justify various different views that it is a highly viscous liquid, an amorphous solid, or simply that glass is another state of matter that is neither liquid nor solid. The difference is semantic.</quote>
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Re:All glass is liquid (Score:5, Informative)
Wikipedia disagrees. [wikipedia.org]
In particular, the myth that glass in older houses is thicker at the bottom because it flowed definitely seems to be just that -- a myth:
Glass is not a slow-flowing liquid (Score:3, Interesting)
Window glass used to be made by blowing giant glass discs and cutting rectangles or diamonds out of them to piece together to make leaded windows. The method of blowing the glass discs resulted in glass that was often thicker on one side than the other. The person building the window would naturally orient the thicker side of each piece to the bottom of the window, to work with gravity to make the window stronger and longer-lasting.
If the glass were really a flowing liquid, then the edges of the pieces wou
Re:All glass is liquid (Score:5, Interesting)
So I'm all for moderation not being aligned with agreement, but I'm not sure how a factually incorrect post can be "Informative"...
Oh, wait, I get it... the post informs us in that now we know chemists can fall for myths just like everyone else.
(The reason old windows are thicker at the bottom is that they were built that way, for structural reasons.)
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Aesthetic reasons actually, and that doesn't mean that glass doesn't creep. Just that it won't creep anywhere near as dramatically as seen in old windows in time periods as short as millions of years, which is significantly longer than the age of most buildings with windows.
Re:All glass is liquid (Score:5, Interesting)
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The reason old windows are thicker at the bottom is that they were built that way, for structural reasons.
That's just something fat old windows say to make themselves feel better.
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No, it merely demonstrates that those selected for moderation can be subject to various incorrect assumptions, biases or asshat inclinations.
Can we now get off the idea that moderation is anything but "Someone finds me interesting,informative, trollish" etc.?
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Nice trolling.
Re:bleach is great but focus on antibiotics (Score:5, Informative)
we pour a gallon of that crud down the sink to kill 16 germs. not that a strong base like bleach is great for mother earth either.
Uh... OK.
So, first of all, silicon dioxide (the subject of the article) is soluble in strong bases. So it won't take long for your "strong base" to dissolve this stuff away. Or any strong base. Heck bird poop would probably suffice.
Secondly, bleach is primarily an oxidizer, secondarily it is somewhat basic but not impressively so. Perhaps you're thinking of some other strongly basic solution you pour down the drain, like, maybe lye based drain cleaner?
Thirdly as far as mother earth vs sodium hypochlorite, its ridiculously unstable and decomposes away before it even hits the sewage treatment plant. I suppose that by Environmentalist Religion "original sin" doctrine it is bad, in that everything any human does is always inherently bad. But compared to most things poured down drains, bleach is rather harmless. You can drink it when highly diluted as a water purifier.
It "sounds good", but it indicates a lot of weird ideas about basic chemistry (basic, get that pun?)
Re:bleach is great but focus on antibiotics (Score:5, Insightful)
Bleach is the nuke that people who are serious about killing bacteria use to clean their counters with. Antibacterial cleaners are the things the amateurs at home use.
If you can satisfy the pros that they don't need to use bleach on their counters then the only remaining reason for anyone to use an antibacterial cleaner on his counter at home is superstition.
Re:bleach is great but focus on antibiotics (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, chlorine bleach (NaOCl - sodium hypochlorite) breaks down to NaCl (salt) and H2O (water), and O2 (Oxygen).
As far as industrial cleaners go, it's pretty much as good for the environment as you're going to get.
Re:bleach is great but focus on antibiotics (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:bleach is great but focus on antibiotics (Score:4, Funny)
He's pretty much credibly incompetent at it, in fact.
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Those chowderheads at the CDC must not have figured that out yet: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol7no3_supp/levy.htm [cdc.gov]
But give them time, and they will see the wisdom of your words.
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Antibacterial soaps and solutions will never create super-germs because they are the equivalent of a nuclear bomb to germs.
Current research would disagree with that point of view, see Disinfectant could increase antibiotic resistance of bug [irishtimes.com]. Also remember there is a big difference between a consumer grade "sanitizer" and a Hospital Grade Disinfectant, on an otherwise clean hard surface 1 cm^2 contaminated with 1M "germs" the consumer grade sanitizer kills 99.9% of the germs leaving 1000 on the surface, th
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Cooking birds, I had a pet turkey once and he was delicious. It was the cooking pot that killed her....
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