Spaceworms To Help Study Astronaut Muscle Loss 73
Hugh Pickens writes "The Telegraph reports that 4,000 microscopic worms were onboard Space Shuttle Atlantis when it launched today. Their mission: to help experts in human physiology understand more about what triggers the body to build and lose muscle. The worms are bound for the Japanese Experiment Module 'Kibo' on the International Space Station, where they will experience the same weightless conditions which can cause dramatic muscle loss, one of the major health concerns for astronauts. 'If we can identify what causes the body to react in certain ways in space we establish new pathways for research back on earth,' says Dr. Nathaniel Szewczyk."
muscle loss (Score:1, Interesting)
Why don't we just give steroids to the astronauts, that should help them a bit with the muscle loss problem.
re: muscle loss (Score:5, Insightful)
Hyper-competitive former fighter jocks + confined space + roids. Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hyper-competitive former fighter jocks + confined space + roids. Whatcouldpossiblygowrong
The most possible option for that to go wrong is:
Hyper-competitive fighter jocks on roids whose minds are being controlled by intellectually superior microworms - confined space.
Loss of peace (Score:4, Funny)
Hyper-competitive former fighter jocks + confined space + roids. Whatcouldpossiblygowrong?
Make sure there's only one female in the crew, and the problems will be clear enough.
She's often a fighter jock too. (Score:2)
Make sure there's only one female in the crew, and the problems will be clear enough.
She's a ruthless fighter jock too. If Eileen Collins was up there, she'd have all the men quacking in their boots before too long and install herself as queen bee.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
She'll have them acting like ducks?
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Bad idea (Score:3, Funny)
Am I the only one who feels like this is a bad idea? We all remember what happened to the ants...
I for one welcome our new medium sized giant spaceworm overlords!
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, nothing's wrong with worms. You want some worms? Have worms. Glory to the many! I mean, we can feel your fear! I mean, what is a voice, to the choir?!!? Worms! Worms do a body good!
Re: (Score:2)
I think you're making a mistake there. These things [zgeek.com] aren't exactly medium-sized.
that was homer simpsons fault. Now he works for Br (Score:2)
that was homer simpsons fault. Now he works for Brazil's power system.
Inspired by Hollywood? (Score:3, Funny)
Rather than having proper Snakes On A Plane, NASA investigated the concept, did a risk assessment, ran some simulations, modeled it, tested it in a swimming pool, and then decided that it was better to have Microscopic Worms On A Space Station.
I was going to make more jokes about Worms Armageddon, but I think I'm done. Hope they left their banana bombs in Florida.
Surprisingly fast (Score:5, Interesting)
I broke my right arm in a cycling accident on the 30th of july. The arm was pretty much immobilised for two months. To this day I still can't lift my right elbow above the level of my shoulder. The muscles in that arm are gone. Hard to think what shape I would be in if I spent six months on the ISS.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That doesn't sound like quite the same thing, a lack of range of motion is not the same as a weak muscle. Can you raise the arm fully while submerged? When upside down? If that isn't the case then it's more likely physiological damage to muscle/joint etc. than muscle degradation.
Re:Surprisingly fast (Score:4, Informative)
Yeah lying down I can swing that arm to the vertical then back above my head. But working against gravity it can't go nearly as far. The joint seems okay and I have had to stretch the muscles on the bottom of the shoulder joint to get that amount of movement.
I have had about a month of physiotherapy now and the advice I have is that the limiting factor is the strength of the muscles which lift the arm.
Give it time (Score:2, Informative)
> I have had about a month of physiotherapy now
I don't think you should lose hope for at least another 11 months and probably more. I broke my wrist and its functionality improved for many months after I was free of the immobilization framework. Of course, it probably would be best if you continue doing physiotheraputic exercises even after the period which is usually believed to be the window of opportunity by conventional medicine (if your physiotherapy is anything like the one I got for my wrist, you
Re: (Score:2)
I got electrocuted (ok ok, shocked... but it was several hundred volts with the potential to push a couple amps, resistance allowing) in a way that the electricity passed through my shoulder. I wasn't able to lift it up against gravity either.
Eventually, this got better... months later. It's still a bit creaky sometimes, occasionally it 'snags' and feels quite "interesting" if I push it without dropping it again.
So, what you are seeing may not necessarily be atrophy from the immobilization, but actual damag
Re: (Score:2)
That seems like a rotator cuff injury, when you can't raise your arm above your head. The fall that broke your arm, or the immobilization of the arm after the injury, may have resulted in your rotator cuff being damaged or atrophied. Go to an orthopedic specialist to check out your shoulder. You may need surgery and/or several months of physiotherapy to repair the damaged rotator cuff muscles/tendons.
Re: (Score:2)
The doctors and physiotherapists both checked for a rotator cuff injury. They didn't find anything wrong there. I just have to work on these muscles In think. It has only been three weeks since I took the brace off the arm.
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There is "perhaps" a chance you can either a) increase the size of the muscle cells, or b) increase the number of muscle cells in the proper conditions. Check out : http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html [hypertrophy-specific.com] for some basics. the forums are filled with interesting discussion which might help you out.
Re: (Score:2)
(see my other reply)
I am working with a physiotherapist to get full movement back but it takes a lot of effort working on the joints, muscles which needed to be stretched, and the muscles which need to get their strength back. Around the office I have made a concious effort to use my right arm again (opening doors, etc) and in the last two weeks it has improved significantly.
Two type of muscle (Score:5, Informative)
2. They are not immobile on the ISS, they can exercise, and unlike you, they are not lazy.
That's (almost) no help. You have 2 types of skeletal muscles fibers.
One, Type II fibers (what's commonly named "red meat") is able to contract fast with great strength over short period of time.
That's what you use when you exercice or do efforts. It's used for impulse-type efforts.
The other Type I fibers (what's commonly named "white meat") is slower, less powerful, but can contract over long period of time.
You are continuously using them whole day long just to stay upright, against gravity.
By doing sport, you (preferably) build up type II fibers.
What melts in zero-G and what you need to recreate once back on the ground are type I fibers.
In short, to give an exaggerated image :
By making sports on the ISS you create astronautes who have the muscle mass of a Terminator-era Arnold Schwartzeneger, who could lift half a ton.
But can't stand upright more than 20 minutes.
Of course, I'm exaggerating. Endurance training (running on a fitness machine) has better effect on the gravity-dependent muscle mass. Nonetheless the current situation is not the most efficient.
3. I really don't see any benefit in this particular experiment, muscle atrophy is very well known, if you don't use it, you lose it. It's as simple as that, sure exercise on the ISS helps a bit, but without the constant gravity tugging on everything and straining the muscles 24/7, you're bound to begin to lose muscle density in 0 G.
First, it's not "as simple as that". See above.
In addition, in Science there's a certain difference between "We know it exists" and "Here is an exhaustive map of absolutely all chemicals involved in the whole process from begin to end".
(and then further difference with "here are a couple of drugs which can influence it and slow down the muscle melting").
From an ethical point of view, the advantage of the space-worms is that you can sacrifice them, and dissect-them and analyse all the proteins and other chemical they contain. (Whereas with human astronaut, you're ethically limited to blood samples).
The benefit is to have a better understanding of the minute details involved in muscle loss (as opposed to just know that it exist).
The hope is that, on the long term, such knowledge could bring benefits :
- Space Medecine : better treatments to help astronauts avoid losing muscle mass (current hGH is the only used one, according to a quick look-up in wikipedia).
- Surgery : better handling of patients with muscle atrophy due to long immobilising
- Degenerative disease : New clues for treating muscles degenerative disease
- Cosmetics : Instant budy building in a pill for Arnold "Terminator" Schwartzeneger wannabes.
- Military : Instant super soldier-in-a-pill
- (Illegal) sports : Even more doping.
Well, in short having more data about a problem is always useful.
Re: (Score:1)
> Whereas with human astronaut, you're ethically limited to blood samples
I can't for the life of me see why it would be unethical to let the astronaut agree to have a muscle tissue biopsy. Or at least why it would be less ethical than blood sampling. Do you know something I don't?
More mass needed (Score:2)
Or at least why it would be less ethical than blood sampling. Do you know something I don't?
Given the fact that the scientist are growing 4'000 worms, they might be interesting in having big quantity of material :
They are not interested in analysing what the bulk of muscle is made of (we already know : it's mostly actin & myosin). They are probably more likely investigate the sublte change in chemical pathway / messenger / hormones, etc. - Perhaps a massive proteomics study ?
These molecular intermediates happen to be in much lower concentration. Our biological systems are really good at detect
Re: (Score:2)
Whats your point?
White hat worms (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Eh? The worms in my garden do a lot of good.
An Experiment for a Known Cause and Effect? (Score:1, Interesting)
We see this atrophy in hospital patients who are confined to bed for years in a coma. These patients never exercise their muscles, and they simply atrophy. Being in space is worse than being in bed. Lack of gravity means that your muscles are not constantly being exercised. Your muscles will waste away.
The fix for this problem is to us
Duh (Score:2, Insightful)
It seems likely to me that the worms will be subjected to various treatments ("test groups") to see if there is a way to reduce this muscle atrophy.
You seem confident that you know what the "fix" is, but without experimentation your suggestion is merely a hypothesis.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Common sense != Science.
Also, it doesn't explain why or how atrophy happens or how to prevent it.
Re: (Score:2)
From the summary (not even the article!) they want to "understand more about what triggers the body to build and lose muscle". Funnily enough, they're trying to understand processes critical to space travel. Those crazy NASA bastards.
Re: (Score:2)
You are absolutely correct, because al
there will be space suits involved? (Score:1)
Why hasn't anyone thought of this before? (Score:1, Funny)
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Asstronaut worms (Score:3, Funny)
The astronaut goes to see the flight surgeon, who tells him he has worms, but not to worry. There is a 100% effective treatment.
Visit One: The surgeon shoves an apple, a pear, and a banana up the astronaut's ass.
Visit Two:The surgeon shoves an apple, a pear, and a banana up the astronaut's ass.
Visit Three: The surgeon shoves an apple and a pear up the astronaut's ass, then stands there holding the banana like a weapon. The worm sticks its head out of the astronaut's ass and says "Hey! Where's my banana?"
Whap! The surgeon knocks out the worm and pulls it out.
Spice worms? (Score:1, Funny)
earthworms (Score:2)
This is all very well but... (Score:2)
Whatever the pathways involved, say we discover some incredibly complex mechanism that regulates muscle mass; it still won't solve the basic problem. Being in free-fall or "zero g" for long enough causes involution of muscle and deteriorates bone strength. Now perhaps some pharmaceutical company can be persuaded to invest billions of dollars, one this pathway is discovered, to invent a drug that blocks it and thus lets astronaut keep their muscles. Then they will sell the pills to NASA and other space pr
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Whatever the pathways involved, say we discover some incredibly complex mechanism that regulates muscle mass; it still won't solve the basic problem. Being in free-fall or "zero g" for long enough causes involution of muscle and deteriorates bone strength. Now perhaps some pharmaceutical company can be persuaded to invest billions of dollars, one this pathway is discovered, to invent a drug that blocks it and thus lets astronaut keep their muscles. Then they will sell the pills to NASA and other space programs, at $1 million per pill.
Frankly wouldn't it be better to understand the relationship between gravity and muscle mass/bone density, and work on ways to simulate gravity instead? Methinks it would be far cheaper, AND resolve the situation.
As with most space-related stuff, there are applications beyond the realm of 0 G environments.
Muscles atrophy here on Earth as well. Folks who are immobilized due to injuries or illness suffer muscle loss. In some cases it requires an awful lot of physical therapy to get that muscle back. In other cases it just isn't possible to fix.
Assuming we're able to discover "some incredibly complex mechanism that regulates muscle mass" - that information can be applied down here on Earth as well.
And if a pharmaceu
Seriously? (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds good in theory, but if you're rotating a small ship wouldn't the differences in "gravity" be awfully disorienting? Beyond that, small enough (i.e. around the sizes that we can currently construct) and you may find that the gravity affecting your feet is significantly different than that affecting your head. I don't know if anyone has studied the affects of something like that, but it could very well be more damaging then having the entire body at a lower gravity.
Wait. What? (Score:2)
I swear, you miss one day around here - ONE DAY - and you're completely lost.
Worms in space? Evolution is amazing... (Score:2)
Long years of pointless study (Score:2)
I wonder how many 10's of billions of dollars have been spent studying muscle and bone atrophy in microgravity? Enough, I think, to launch a 1G rotating section on the space station so we never have to endure this silly discussion again.
What radius is needed to simulate gravity? (Score:2)
The normally stated reason why it is tricky to simulate gravity using a rotating space station is that the curvature causes the generated gravitational field to be inhomogeneous and that this generally results in nausea. Thus I'm wondering a few things:
a) Is it known what radius of circulation is needed to avoid this?
b) Is the primary problem that the artificial gravity points in different directions in points separated by a small distance, or is it that the magnitude of the field changes with distance from
Same Worms from 2003 (Score:2)
These are the same worms who survived reentry inside their experimental cannister when Columbia broke up in 2003:
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/04/0334219 [slashdot.org]
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/01/1134217 [slashdot.org]