Fear Detector To Sniff Out Terrorists 342
Hugh Pickens writes "Evidence that the smell of fear is real was uncovered by US scientists last year who studied the underarm secretions of 20 terrified novice skydivers and found that people appear to respond unconsciously to the sweat smell of a frightened person. Now the Telegraph reports that researchers hope a 'fear detector' will make it possible to identify individuals at check points who are up to no good. 'The challenge lies in the characterization and identification of the specific chemical that gives away the signature of human fear, especially the fear in relation to criminal acts,' says Professor Tong Tun at City University London, who leads the team developing security sensor systems that can detect the human fear pheromone. The project will look at potential obstacles to the device, such as the effects of perfume and the variances in pheromone production and if the initial 18-month feasibility study is successful, the first detectors could be developed in the next two to three years. 'I do not see any particular reason why similar sensor techniques cannot be expanded to identify human smells by race, age or gender to build a profile of a criminal during or after an incident,' Tong added."
Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
... or people who are afraid of being suspected of terrorism
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or people who are afraid of flying?
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Or people who are nervous about their big business meeting, or meeting their possible future in-laws, etc etc
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Funny)
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Like this comic: http://alexandersarchive.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/72-virgins-family-guy.jpg [wordpress.com] Or this photo: http://www.redout.org/members/uploads/72virgins.jpg [redout.org]
Actually I don't care if they've slept with 20,000 men if they all look like this (young and cute) http://www.truthordarepics.com/sexstoryarchive/nakedgirls/images/nakedgirls4.jpg [truthordarepics.com]
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Funny)
Lesbians.
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
In away your right, from what I understand suicide bombers aren't even remotely afraid or even consider what they are doing to be anything but gods holy work. They probably wont even register in the slightest on these detectors. Whereas the people who are worried about receiving securities own special "enema" will be.
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is exactly what I would assume to be the case. Though there may be the fear of getting caught but... I doubt it. I think the false positive rate on anything like this is going to be through the roof.
Frankly, I will laugh and hoot the first time someone is awarded a huge sum because of the trauma they experienced when their panic disorder brings on the start of an attack and trips off the sensor. Because, as we all know, being suddenly pulled aside by a person in uniform is exactly the sort of thing that a person having an uncontrollable panic attack needs to calm them down. The sort of ham handed treatment typical of people who feel that someone paying them and putting them in a silly uniform gives them the right to harass other people is exactly the sort of thing that will really move their treatment forward.
Terrorism is a largely imaginary threat. Panic disorder is a real and debilitating disorder.
I am seriously against damaging real people to catch imaginary ones.
-Steve
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Terrorism is a real threat, it's just nowhere near as large a threat as some would make it out to be. You're likely to be killed in a domestic terrorist attack in the same way you're likely to die of exposure in the winter: Something to be conscious of, something to keep an eye out for, something to take precautions against, but not something to live in constant fear of.
We shouldn't be hurting people with false positives, and like you, I think that a system such as described in TFA is going to have an unacc
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And sooner or later a micro-meteorite is going to slam through someones skull and end their life. However, we should do absolutely nothing about this.
We should still do what we can, within reason, to reduce the likelihood of their success. It's that "within reason" that most people seem to have lost sight of.
Exactly what is "within reason" here? Terrorism as a risk falls miles behind "diabetes". Its even far below "accidental incident with fire a
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrorism is a real threat, it's just nowhere near as large a threat as some would make it out to be.
Yeah, well, we're talking about airport terrorist screening here. Terrorism on airplanes is pretty much over. The idea that we need to protect against guys getting on with box cutters is absolutely ludicrous. If anything, the shift in public perception of hijacking should have allowed a relaxing of security at airports, as the passengers will immediately hogtie, pummel, and sedate [wikipedia.org] any idiot dumb enough to try anything. Really, the only thing left to look out for is explosives, and that's a fairly simple chemistry problem. All this shit with taking off shoes, smelling us for fear, and peering through our clothes with machines is expensive security theater to mitigate a problem that's already been solved.
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Stop with the "THEY ARE EVIL!" propaganda (Score:3, Insightful)
In away your right, from what I understand suicide bombers aren't even remotely afraid or even consider what they are doing to be anything but gods holy work.
They are people, too. Humans who their religion, peer pressure, status in society (you don't see wealthy businessmen blowing themselves up), etc. has forced to do something horrible. While they are doing something really bad, they are still humans and have emotions.
What do you think that a person thinks before blowing himself up in the middle of a crowd? Among people, some of whom might remind them of their own familymembers, for example? Maybe they have doubts about whether what they are doing is right or
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FDR said it. Or was it Churchill? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially when we arrest the arabic man who was just nervous about introducing his girlfriend to his parents.
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No kidding - I'm doubting the effectiveness of this, since I am afraid of flying, but I see no reason why a suicide bomber would be.
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or young men who are afraid that their dreams for a virgin will be confused with somebody else's dreams of 71 virgins.
No... no, you won't... (Score:5, Insightful)
Detect terrorists, that is.
Not while there are anti-anxiety drugs out there.
What you will detect is a bunch of false positives that will keep you busy "detecting" while trucks loaded with bags of ammonium-nitrate explosive merrily (but calmly) pass you by.
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Even without anti-anxiety drugs, can anybody confirm that the kind of terrorist who actually pulls off attacks will be fearful? I could very well imagine them being as calm as can be, completely convinced what they're doing is the right thing. After all, standing there with a bomb strapped to your chest pretty much implies you believe in that "heaven with 71 virgins" delusion, no matter if you take out a couple hundred civilians or just two guards, it's martyrdom and it's spoils (mostly spoiled intestines h
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Or from a machine that will go off causing you a bunch of problems and missing your important flight. If are afraid of it.
Probably will NOT work on terrorists (Score:2)
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I dunno.. I'm sure those skydivers made up their mind how things are will happen.. and even knowing that they stand a very very very very little change of dying, they can still exhibit Fear.
Also, even if the person in question had completely made peace with the fact they are gonna blow themselves up, what about the fear of being caught -before- being able to do the act? If you rot away in prison and get shivved, you're not a martyr, so you 'wouldn't get your heavenly reward'.. assuming you believe such popp
Detects everybody... (Score:4, Insightful)
A number of false positives reported in the media, and everybody will fear that machine...
Re:Detects terrorists... (Score:5, Informative)
Y'know.... a man can change the scent/pheromones his body gives off as easily as taking a drug like cyproterone [wikipedia.org]. The effects are temporary, but taking it in doses of about 50mg/day for a week before flying will have a big enough impact on the way your body produces pheromones that most people won't be able to read you properly. Stop taking the drug, and your body resumes normal operation...
Not suggesting, of course, that the terrorists would think to use a drug that, in people with a Y-chromosome, is usually used to treat transgenderism (and occasionally used to treat prostate cancer), but there are a very large number of drugs out there on the market, some available over the counter, that will affect your body's hormone balance, and will in turn affect the pheromones that your body produces. With so many ways to screw with the results available, I'd be very surprised if they could get such a system to work properly with an acceptable false positive/false negative rate....
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False positives would be off the scale (Score:2)
Such a detector would also nab people who are afraid of flying, or who are afraid they will miss their flight, or are anxious about meeting a new relative, or god-only-knows-what.
Supercomputer involved to be named "Deep Sniff"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What if the fear they detect in you is the fear of missing your flight while you're held up trying to convince security that you aren't a threat?
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Like this guy. By the way, it's not illegal to cash $4700 in cash, nor do you have to answer nosy bastards questions about it, unless they obtain a warrant (signed by an impartial judge), or you are crossing an international border. This poor fellow just wanted to travel from St. Louis to Arlington Virgnia.
edited version- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM [youtube.com]
full recording- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEJpzVPmih0 [youtube.com]
I think I would have told these St. Louis police to read me my Miranda Rights, and the
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I just noticed this: "Your subject has negative warrants for arrest and negative prior history. He does have a valid oil land(?) that expires 2014." What the frak? They have a central computer to track all our history, even in foreign states that are 1000 miles away from where we live? Dang.
Other annoyances:
- "Why do you have this money?"
- "What's your occupation?"
- "It's not a matter of the law." - The Constitution is the law. It specifically forbids this type of detainment unless a judge okays it.
-
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This is why I drive a car almost everywhere I go. I haven't flown in an airplane since 9/11 - it was a hassle before and now it's even more so.
I recall when I had to make a business trip from Oklahoma City to Minneapolis. My coworkers thought I was nuts when I said I was taking my car, so we had a kind of race. We both left the office early in the morning, and arrived in Minneapolis at about 7 p.m. that night. There was only half an hour difference. Plus I got $700 reimbursement for "car wear-and-tear"
The signature of human fear (Score:5, Interesting)
Luckily airports are only ever full of relaxed, calm people who have no fear of flying whatsoever.
And being dragged off to be interrogated as a terrorist in some darkened back-room by three of four rent-a-thugs can only serve to ease their fears of flying...
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
This is so true.
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
All a fear detector detects is fear. Not intent or cause. Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
Unfortunately that is probably exactly what they want.
This device is 'scientific proof' (AKA the computer said so) for arresting any one of 90% of the people there that they might want to arrest for some reason.
Think dousing rods here. It's an enforcement departments wet dream.
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:5, Interesting)
Once they realize how many people are afraid in airports, they will quickly scrap this stupid idea.
No, it doesn't work like that. More false positives and inconvenience are never a problem for these people. That just means they can apply for more stolen^H^H^H^H^H^H^H government money to deal with the extra people.
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
Who said they'd be limited to airports?
will make it possible to identify individuals at check points
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Yep, let's start at the generals and work our way down... surely that won't kill this in its infancy?
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Nobody said they'd be limited to airports.
It's just that a fear of flying isn't normally a problem when the checkpoint is at the railway station or a border crossing. ;-)
Re:The signature of human fear (Score:4, Insightful)
And there are people who can be calm under any circumstance. If you're full of opiates you don't care about (or fear) anything. Then there's "liquid courage" at the airport bar.
This smells like failure.
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and also roasted nuts and cheap alcohol...
Yeah, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
* (I think statistically, "he" is a fair generalization here.)
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No, but the guy who's afraid that such a person is on the flight will be. These persons will be detected and prevented from boarding, thus they avoid the imagined risk. It's added value for the neurotic!
Re:Yeah, but... (Score:5, Funny)
So lessen the odds by bringing a bomb onto the airplane. Do you know what the odds of TWO people bringing a bomb onto an airplane are?
And if you can get someone else you trust never to explode a bomb to bring one on an airplane, your flight will be even safer, because do you know how much rarer it will be for THREE people to bring a bomb onto an airplane?
Heck, have the captain, the co-pilot, the flight engineer, and the head stew also bring bombs on board. the probability of an EIGHTH person bringing a bomb on board is soooo small ....
Now, where's my grant money?
(no, it's not original - it's adapted from Isaac Asimov's Joke Book - which is now probably on some sort of watch list because certain people with no sense of humor act like they have a baguette shoved up their ass, so don't trot down to your local library to read it)
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According to my grandfather it's quite common for a plane to take off with dozens of bombs on board. Or rather it was [wikipedia.org].
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Perfect, it just picks those who are NOT afraid!
Actually it would work - you are not afraid - interrogation - next time you will be.
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".. especially the fear in relation to criminal acts"
So yes, more so than most criminals I would imagine. A normal criminal only fears getting caught and perhaps going to jail if their lawyer sucks.
A terrorist has far more to lose from their point of view, so if this figures into it at all, I would expect elevated fear levels. Unless of course their religious belief includes a rock-solid belief that their deity of choice will get them on board safely. Basically, in my opinion the whole religion thing is a bit irrational. I assume terrorist n
Fear Of Flying = Fear Of Being Caught? (Score:2)
Or fear of bad airline food? Or fear of having a screaming kid on board? Or fear of being stuck next to a passenger with hygiene issues?
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That's not the smell of fear ... that's the stink of miserable certainty.
Oh well - look at the bright side. Anything that reduces air travel is good for the environment, so you KNOW they're also going to be applying for carbon tax credits for the reduction in air travel. One bad scam deserves another.
But worry not! (Score:4, Insightful)
People that are afraid of flying (or more accurately, crashing) will not need to worry about being picked out of the line for 'smelling suspiscious'! Not at all...
and those freaking out (Score:2)
after being pulled over by a cop.
Yeah, this will work. Suddenly we will have lots of suspicious people locked up and their items confiscated all because they are presumed guilty for simply being afraid or worried.
Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
You'll also get the whole set of seats to yourself.
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Good advice even if you aren't flying.
Up to no good? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd be more alarmed to find someone who wasn't afraid to pass a checkpoint like this. How can you defend yourself from the allegation of some machine saying that you exhibit fear, and therefore is a terrorist? Furthermore, sociopaths and psychopaths will have little trouble passing these checkpoints.
So you'll get plenty of false positives, and plenty of false negatives.
Oops (Score:5, Insightful)
Now the Telegraph reports that researchers hope a 'fear detector'' will make it possible to identify individuals at check points who are up to no good.
What about us law abiding citizens who are only afraid that our governments checkpoint workers are up to no good?
It is already a very real possibility for one of those people to make up any type of claim they want and detail you without letting you speak to a lawyer nor involve any courts.
The reason given can be as ridiculous as 'He had terrorist looking hair' and still be valid. Plenty of legit reason to be afraid of those people.
Not to mention the fact I have no doubt at least a subset of these checkpoints will be at places where fear is natural (IE airports, fear of flying, or fear of falling out of the sky in a fireball)
Will deodorant and perfume be classified as a terrorist munition now?
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Will deodorant and perfume be classified as a terrorist munition now?
They already are.
Have you tried carring deodorant and perfume in your hand luggage recently?
Fearolin? Criminofearolin? (Score:5, Insightful)
The idea that there's a special chemical signal for "fear in relation to criminal acts" seems to come out of absolutely nowhere. Shouldn't there be some research into whether such a chemical signal exists before device development occurs? If it's not a magic detector of latent emotion or the cause of emotion so I'm not sure how much better it would be than noticing which people "look a bit afraid". It's going to be just as susceptible to picking up people who find flying difficult or are worried about being falsely accused of being a terrorist because they look funny.
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The idea that there's a special chemical signal for "fear in relation to criminal acts" seems to come out of absolutely nowhere.
No, it comes from somewhere: It comes from the fact that billions of dollars in federal research grants are being spewed out for anything that can be remotely tied to terrorism prevention and/or response. I can only guess how much money this particular scheme raked in.
Obviously, the rate of false positives that you'd inevitably get with something like this makes it worse than useless in a crowded airport (I wonder if they addressed that issue in their grant application?). But then, in a nation where delay,
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The idea that there's a special chemical signal for "fear in relation to criminal acts" seems to come out of absolutely nowhere.
It comes from studying skydivers. What more can you ask for. We know they're up to no good [imdb.com].
Underarms?! (Score:5, Funny)
"And in the news today, hundreds of teenage boys were arrested under the Prevention of Terrorism Act. They were later released after it turned out they were simply wearing Axe deodorant"
The only thing we have to fear... (Score:5, Insightful)
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waste of time (Score:2, Insightful)
No (Score:2)
I would be far more concerned about false negatives. I suspect that a terrorists who has already made up their mind to die is probably not quite as fearful. The true religious fanatics that have convinced themselves that either 72 virgins or Jesus or virg
Profit!!! (Score:4, Funny)
2. Create artificial "fear hormone"
3. Bottle hormone in spray-flask
4. Spray "on your car" outside airport (and wash car with a piece of cloth) - make sure to spray passers-by
5. ???
6. Profit!!!!
Re:Profit!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
If this is really put into use I guarantee you that pranksters will be doing exactly that. They don't even care about the Profit!!!! They'll do it just for the lulz.
Re:Profit!!! (Score:5, Funny)
More profiling... (Score:3, Insightful)
Great, just what we need, more profiling in place of real security. And just how is this supposed to work with psychopaths who do not experience the emotion of fear?
Positive Feedback Loop? (Score:5, Insightful)
1: Develop System to detect when someone is "afraid"
2: Let citizens know that those who are "afraid" will be detected, detained and questioned for "citizen safety".
3: Citizens are now afraid to go through on the idea that maybe they will somehow set off the alarm.
Tons of false positives. After the first story of a false positive, some people become afraid of being a false positive as well. As more and more stories of false positives arise, more and more people become afraid and become more false positives.
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4. All citizens are now afraid of the detector. Except terrorists.
5. Set detector to "if you're not trembling, you're guilty" mode.
6. Citizens learn that detector is now only interested in people who aren't afraid of getting stopped
7. Citizens no longer afraid. Back to square one!
8. Foxes and rabbits! XD
Bogey (Score:2)
The /. quote right now...
Everybody has something to conceal. -- Humphrey Bogart
Doubleplusgood? (Score:5, Insightful)
Isn't this a step towards thought crime?
"He's scared, arrest him!"
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Let's Be Serious (Score:5, Interesting)
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I must not fear... (Score:5, Funny)
... fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death that brings airport security...
Great (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been suffering on anxiety disorder now for the last 15 years, does that mean I will get an anal search every time I cross the border now?
I love it! (Score:2, Funny)
I really like the idea! Preferably it should be combined with US patent 6970105 (Passenger control system during a plane flying) http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6970105.html [freepatentsonline.com]
So we fit all passengers with large collars containing big needles with sedatives. At the first smell of fear we inject a propper dose of sedatives in their necks. The problems with terrorism and fear of flying solved at the same time.
I really must run and patent this idea right now... And get the movie rights!
OK... (Score:2)
While I think the "smell out terrorists" idea is absurd and deserves no further discussion, smell-profiling itself may prove to be a valid idea. And as often all the *other* uses of such technology may have a real impact. Drug use, gender, emotional state, age etc. being detected by some smell detectors opens new fields in surveillance and control. And I'm not sure I like that at all.
And if you look at how dogs can follow and search people by their individual smell I see no real reason why "smell fingerprin
Future airports doubleplussafe! (Score:2)
IANAP but aren't there ways around this? (Score:2)
I've also heard that paxil can turn a small segment of the population into cannibals if pumped into the atmosphere.
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Love these comments... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Because of the incidence of anxiety disorders in the general population, there has been a great deal of research on the treatment and control of anxiety and fear. The techniques aren't perfect; but they are clinically validated at this point, and fairly easily available.
Sure, if you grabbed to guys off the street, handed one a bomb and the other a briefcase, the guy with the bomb is going to be sweating bull
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Why is the terrorist supposed to be afraid? Many of them have trained for years to do the hijacking, and fear is not what those who survived described. Besides, many of the terrorists here in Europe have been taking drugs to ensure top performance. So what you are looking for is not somebody scared out of his pants. You are looking for a calm professional on benzedrine.
Re:Love these comments... (Score:4, Insightful)
A terrorist is going to be a LOT more afraid of getting on that plane and detonating a bomb on it,
And there is the fallacious assumption of your entire argument. You assume that there even are people trying to get on planes with bombs these days. Further more, you assume that there are enough of those people, in comparison to innocent travelers, to pose a significant risk. Honestly, how many airplane hijackings/terrorist acts have you heard of since 9/11? Any 'terrorist' (or activist or freedom fighter or whatever) that has any shred of intelligence whatsoever is not going to be trying to use airplanes for terror attacks after 9/11. It is unoriginal, and therefore risky. I would wager (no, its not fact, I know that) that the next significant report of terrorism (meaning X many people died) is going to come in some form of an attack that was completely unexpected and unaccounted for.
Beefing up airport security to extremely high levels (some security is necessary and should exist) is a very flashy attempt to close a barn door, lock it, nail-board it shut, and put a bomb shelter around it after the horse has already left.
So what happens? (Score:2)
The project will look at potential obstacles to the device, such as the effects of perfume
And completely ignores the premise that a religious fanatic about to die for his god might not be afraid at all!
This will work really well... (Score:2)
...for identifying people who are frightened of being identified as being frightened.
> ...especially the fear in relation to criminal acts...
Bullshit. Someone whos is afraid that customs will catch him smuggling lizards will smell no different from someone who is afraid of flying (the lizards might, though).
Know what's a bigger problem than terrorism? (Score:5, Insightful)
so, how about... (Score:2)
we just ground all aircrafts? get working on high speed rail and ships damn it!
Good! (Score:2)
Where is the standard response? (Score:2, Insightful)
Usually for these loss of freedom stories, we get the bleated "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of" response. Where is it? Wait, what's that I smell? Scared sheeple?
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Terrorists will just learn to be fearless (Score:4, Insightful)
It should stop the rogue unprepared school shooting type person.
Or cause them to shoot the guard manning it. I've never felt 'safer' in a building with a metal detector. I've certainly felt less free.