Cold War Standoff Over ISS Toilet 417
Hugh Pickens writes "The International Space Station, once a place where astronauts would share food and facilities, is said to be embroiled in a Cold War-like stand-off after a Russian cosmonaut complained he is no longer allowed to use a US toilet or the US gym machine. Gennady Padalka, a veteran Russian cosmonaut, says that space officials from Russia, the United States and other countries now require cosmonauts and astronauts to eat their own food and follow stringent rules on access to other facilities, including lavatories. Padalka, who will be the station's next commander, says the arguments date back to 2003, when Russia started charging other space agencies for the resources used by their astronauts and other partners in space station responded in kind. 'Cosmonauts are above the ongoing squabble, no matter what officials decide,' says Padalka. 'We are grown-up, well-educated and good-mannered people and can use our own brains to create normal relationship. It's politicians and bureaucrats who can't reach agreement, not us, cosmonauts and astronauts.' While sharing food in the past helped the crew feel like a team, the new rules oblige Russian cosmonauts and US astronauts to eat their own food. 'They also recommend us to only use national toilets,' says Padalka. 'What is going on has an adverse effect on our work.'"
This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
On the other hand, this sort of playground childishness isn't exactly unusual in politics.
Americans Get the Short End of the Stick, As Usual (Score:5, Funny)
This is particularly unfair when you consider that, even before this dust-up, Americans couldn't use the other nations' toilets anyway. You see, their normal-sized pee tubes would not accommodate our large American junk.
Had to be done, sorry. :-]
Re:Americans Get the Short End of the Stick, As Us (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
They're politicians. It's their *job* to be assholes and douchbags.
Oddly enough, politicians say the same thing about people posting about politicians on the internet.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I saw this movie. US and Russian astronauts who would otherwise get along are forced to treat each other like cold war nations in space?
I think it was supposed to happen in 2010. Fucking idiot politicians.
Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Funny)
Remember, the ISS is now recycling urine for drinking water. Allowing cosmonauts to use our toilet would risk the contamination of our precious bodily fluids. Twice, no less.
No, the problem is that the American filtration system can't process that much metabolized vodka. After five days it would become the International Party Station.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, you americans are really afraid of communism? =P
I don't think it spread thru urine ..
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:4, Informative)
Not at all, it was a reference to a movie, Dr. Strangelove.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"Twice, no less."
"Two astronauts, one cup?"
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Informative)
Whoooosh! (and that's not the sound of a toilet flushing)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/ [imdb.com]
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Informative)
Gah... Get the quote right if you're going to quote something!
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here! This is the war room!"
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not stupid at all! (Score:4, Funny)
I was thinking you could poop in a plastic bag and throw it outside. However, a frozen turd traveling at over 7km/s might pose a serious hazard.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
>>>What fucking idiot politician thought this up?
Unfortunately nearly ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots" so I can't really name a specific induhvidual. They couldn't even balance a typical home budget with ~$40,000/year income, much less a national economy. Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Funny)
So you're a Republican?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Funny)
Wooosh.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Bush is that you?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, that worked during the Bush admin...and when the Republicans had both houses.
I think at this point, you'd have to say he was a Democrat, since they are in charge.....
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
>>>>>Unfortunately ALL of them qualify as "fucking idiots"
>>Fixed that for you. You had an extra word in there
I originally had that, but then I remembered Dr. Ron Paul who I happen to like, so I changed it to "almost all". If Mr. Paul were president, AIG bonuses would be a non-issue since they'd already be bankrupted and split-up into pieces. We'd not need to borrow 3000 billion from China for bailout bills, and the economy would already be on the way to recovery (basically a collapse
Re:America as we know it (Score:4, Insightful)
Its forefathers intended it to be a nation run by and for wealthy white men. Which, for the most part, it still is.
Its forefathers intended it to be an agrarian, rural nation -- Jefferson, for example, believed that large cities were "pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man."
Rebuilding the U.S. "as its forefathers intended" would mean a lot of regression; "accounting for current situations" leaves little relevance to many of their ideas.
The Founders had a few good ideas -- the U.S. ought to avoid foreign wars and mind its own business, government ought to be representative and its powers limited, and those limits should be fixed in writing. And I have to give Washington serious props for doing the Cincinnatus [wikipedia.org] thing.
But by and large, they were slave-owning aristocrats, and we ought not worship them or their ideals.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
We've gotten more greed, more violence, more sense of entitlement, less drive, less personal responsibility for ones own actions, less entrepreneurial, more broken families, and general falling apart of things that used to unite us all in the US.
It certainly hasn't been getting better over the past 20 years, that's for sure...
Re:America as we know it (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, God, where to start?
We didn't seem to have as much violence
Murder rates were about 25% higher in 1989 than they are now. Google "US homicide rate by year" and you will find a ton of documentation.
parents weren't afraid to let their kids play outside
The mid-Eighties were the height of the "Satanic ritual child abuse" witch-hunt hysteria. By the late Eighties, the idea that the world was a horrible scary place waiting to eat the poor innocent children was firmly implanted in the public consciousness.
Heck, only a few short years before then...you could fsck all you wanted, and the worst you had to fear was getting a shot from the Dr. to clear up any STD you had.
AIDS was first identified in 1981, and HIV was identified as the pathogen responsible in 1983, IIRC. By 1989, the risks of heterosexual as well as homosexual transmission were well known ... and the drugs available at the time would kill you faster than the disease itself would, as opposed to the current generation of AIDS drugs which, while they still have some pretty nasty side effects, do allow HIV-infected people to live relatively healthy lives for a number of years after infection.
we weren't being overrun by our neighbors from the south as badly as now
America has always gone through ebbs and flows of immigration, and corresponding bouts of hysteria about it. The current anti-immigrant dustup is no different from that which greeted the Scots-Irish, the Germans, the Irish Irish, the Chinese, the Italians, the Poles, etc. Note that most of those people's grandkids and great-grandkids now speak English and call themselves Americans. As for the specific issue of immigration from Mexico, anyone who lives in the Southwest can tell you that it's not exactly a new phenomenon.
Sure, the tech today is SOOO much better, but, it wasn't being twisted and used by the govt. against us quite so badly.
There was this little thing back then called the "Cold War." Ever heard of it? I sure as hell did. I was stationed in Europe when the Wall came down. You want to talk about governments using technology against their citizens, well, holding most of the world's population in a giant game of nuclear "chicken" pretty much takes the cake.
You're not remembering the Eighties. You're remembering a mythical Golden Age, which always seems to occur somewhere between two decades and two centuries in the past. No matter who you talk to, in any country, in any era, there's always The Time When Things Were Better. Except if you go back and look at the facts, you'll see that it hardly ever was.
Re:America as we know it (Score:4, Informative)
Ryan White [wikipedia.org] and Arthur Ashe [wikipedia.org] send their love. (Go ahead, I double-dare you to suggest those are exceptional cases).
I'm just saying that how people treat each other, society in general, and how the govt. is working against us, was not as bad back then. I feel that life and the very minimun, was much more civil, polite and relaxed then.....and decades before.
Hey, remember that time the US government purposely gave 400 of its black citizens, hell, 400 of its MILITARY men, syphillis, then watched them die? [npr.org] I could be cynical and say "I guess *snicker* this is what cayenne8 considers the days when the government was better!," but I really doubt you think the gov't-sponsored-and-ordered execution of 400 black men was really a good thing. Really, you're just describing what one of the GPs accurately describes as gleeful remembrance of the "good ole days."
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Nobody was purposely infected with syphilis.
The Tuskegee Study did not involve purposely infecting anyone. The study started on black men who were infected with untreated syphilis. Not to minimize what did happen which was still pretty bad. There was no effective treatment for syphilis when the study started in the early 1030s and the treatments that did exis
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
IAAD (I am a doctor), and dude, don't act like I didn't dare you. You should have known I already had the stats to back myself up.
"As of December 2001, an estimated 14,262 persons have been diagnosed with AIDS as a result of transfusing contaminated blood or blood products. [ucsf.edu]"
To you Cayenne8, Ryan White, Arthur Ashe and 14,260 other "isolated incidents" with names, with real families and real loved ones a
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
>>>1989....I liked it.
You have to go much farther back then that. 1910. I obviously don't remember it, but my grandfather did when he was still alive. The one most obvious difference - No income tax. He was allowed to keep every dollar he earned, except for incidentals like sales tax.
Second difference - no RIAA suing you because you played a song on your piano without permission, because even though copyright laws existed, they were designed to favor the people not the corporations. And they h
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
>>>Jefferson, for example, believed that large cities were "pestilential to the morals, the health and the liberties of man."
He was correct. He was also correct about the corporations being a powerful force that could take-away the freedoms of the citizens, mainly through the power of wealth, and secondarily through the subjugation of the People's government. Ref: RIAA. Ref: The various blacklists corporations use to make finding a job nigh-impossible.
>>>Its forefathers intended it to b
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Why do we elect these bozos as our leaders?
Because everyone else doesn't want to be in politics?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Its a good idea but implementing it has a few problems.
Answer: by the asshole in charge (Score:5, Funny)
All the organs of the body were having a meeting, trying to decide who was the one in charge.
After a while, the feet, stomach, eyes, and brain agreed that the asshole was in charge.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Though for some people, their dick is what's actually in charge.
Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge (Score:5, Funny)
Though for some people, their dick is what's actually in charge.
And those people are collectively known as "men".
Re:Answer: by the asshole in charge (Score:4, Funny)
"We're not assholes, we're dicks. And you... you're all a bunch of pussies!"
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Funny)
What fucking idiot politician thought this up?
They like pISSing contests. They reached boldly where nobody pissed before.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Funny)
/voice=Patrick Stewart
"Hello, this is Captain Picard. On the bridge of the Enterprise, I have no problems with Number One. Number two is a different matter. That's why I use Star Fleet Enemas. With a Star Fleet Enema, you can boldly go like no one has gone before!"
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Its actually not what it sounds like. Russia has been making money with space tourists and the US does not want to fund the extra wear and tear forced on the sparse resources.
Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No. The simple fact is, it is VERY expensive to repair/replace anything in space and Russia is increasing the wear on various components by bringing additional people aboard who provide no benefit what-so-ever. In a very reasonable and appropriate response, the US' position is, if the Russians want to place additional burdens on sparse resources, they need to do so only on their own resources. Contrary to the idiocy of the article, its a very reasonable position to hold. If Russia wants their complaint to be heard, all they have to do is start being reasonable and responsible. Until such time, they can STFU and burden their own resources. If they don't like it, they can start acting responsibly.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Its actually not what it sounds like. Russia has been making money with space tourists and the US does not want to fund the extra wear and tear forced on the sparse resources.
That is reasonable, but it's not what the article says. If the rule were "Tourists must not filch food or gym fees or waste disposal from (other nations') taxpayers" then I'd be for it. But what the hell is the point of an international collaboration if there is no international collaboration? If this makes the 'nauts' lives worse, it is a stupid idea. What is the cost of training an astronaut and putting her in orbit vs. the cost of buying a foreigner lunch every so often (or all the time) in order to foster an atmosphere of cooperation? We now have less effective teams in space. As a taxpayer, I feel ripped off.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What if Russia simply cannot afford to collaborate in ISS without that additional commercial revenue? If it's the matter of "we can only do it this way, or else not at all"?
Given the recent history of ISS and U.S. space programme, it would seem that it wouldn't get far without Russian involvement, whatever quirks it may have.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Will, if you want to pull that out, let's not forget the US is basically footing a huge part of the entire Russian space program to prevent their Russian rocket scientists from otherwise being employed by hostile nations wishing to develope their own ICBM programs.
It's safe to say my "free ride" comment is accurate. The charity they receive more than makes up for the rides the US has received. In the least, its a break even - especially since the US normally has to kick in additional dollars to pay for the rides too.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No.
US tax dollars are needed to bail out the billionaires from their mortgages.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Should US tax dollars really be used to allow for billionaires to play around in space? No. The simple fact is, it is VERY expensive to repair/replace anything in space and Russia is increasing the wear on various components by bringing additional people aboard who provide no benefit what-so-ever.
So you've spent in the 2 or 3 digit BILLIONs on something designed to foster international cooperation, and you're worried about a few tens or hundreds of thousands for some extra wear and tear on a toilet? Yeah th
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
Brought to you by the makers of the Cold War where supposed grownups threatened to render large parts of the world uninhabitable and gave a generation of children nightmares due to a disagreement over economic systems.
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The same one that wanted a manned space station in the first place
The russians? I mean the summary says quite clearly the russians started it and if they did I'd also start charging right back at them. It sounds a little crazy but I figure the cost of putting a sandwich in orbit isn't insignificant.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Insightful)
The russians? I mean the summary says quite clearly the russians started it and if they did I'd also start charging right back at them...
I doubt that that will be a wise move for any nation, considering that the Russians will be the only way to and from the station for several years; they also have the only regular cargo shuttle (the Europeans managed a single experimental trip that promisses a significant improvement in cargo capacity); and the emergancy evacuation shuttle is a Russian soyuze attached to the station.
I'd say that nobody is in a position to dictate terms to the Russians, at least for the next 8-odd years.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Insightful)
Unmanned missions can cover the issues that come up with manned spaceflight very well. Things like this need to be sorted out now. Like themovie 2010 astranauts need to be able to tell their governments to fsck off or we are going to die.
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is just sheer stupidity. (Score:4, Funny)
My first thought was... (Score:2)
What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?
Then it turns out it's just petty politician squabbling. Gotta love politicians.
Re:My first thought was... (Score:5, Funny)
What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?
Thats a legitimate complaint... do you know how much it costs to get a plumber to do a service call?
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What was he eating that he clogged up the US toilet?
Thats a legitimate complaint... do you know how much it costs to get a plumber to do a service call?
Plumber's Crack... In Zero G!
/shudders
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(I)SS (Score:3, Insightful)
Politicians: Hard at work to put the "I" in ISS...
Re:(I)SS (Score:5, Funny)
Politicians: Hard at work to put the "SS" in ISS.
Just Godwin'd this somehow.
It's because (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's because (Score:5, Funny)
Additionally, there seem to be squabbling about the 'under/over' controversy with the toilet paper roll.
Re:It's because (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It's because (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not sure which is funnier: posting your vote, or getting moderated informative.
Re:It's because (Score:4, Informative)
Not if you have cats. Unless you enjoy rewinding the roll every day. :-)
Re:It's because (Score:5, Insightful)
it is amazing that humans ever developed the wheel (Score:5, Funny)
im sure some cave man council decided it would create too much cooperation between rival clans, and tried to stop the project.
Do it anyway (Score:2)
What are the bosses going to do, stop by their desk and give them a stern talking-to?
It seems the U.S. should not be antagonizing the Russians, seeing as how we're going to be dependent on them for manned spaceflight pretty soon now...
Re:Do it anyway (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Do it anyway (Score:5, Informative)
No, this one is on the Russians. They started it. The Americans are just playing tit-for-tat (with random forgiveness, we presume), which is always an appropriate moral strategy.
This is not the first time the Russians, bankrupt, have pulled a stunt like this. Mir was full of junk because the Russians would lease space to whoever to run an experiment and would then refuse to bring the experiment's materials back to Earth. They kept them on board in order to continue charging the (exorbitant) rent for space aboard Mir. The cosmonauts complained about the piles of junk, though not publicly.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Aah, the Russians, Capitalists through and through...
Re:Do it anyway (Score:4, Funny)
The Americans are just playing tit-for-tat
Or in this case: shit-for-shat
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
"Both sides are being petty children."
Such a departure from the US and Russia of old...
Re:Do it anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
Russians began it by charging to use "their" resources
Actually, Russians started to charge for the ride to the station which is completely understandable considering costs involved.
Summary is rather inflammatory by calling it "charging for resources".
Yea, the toilet thing is a really petty retaliation. But this is the era of asymmetric warfare after all...
Re:Do it anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
What are the bosses going to do, stop by their desk and give them a stern talking-to?
The alternative is "you never go to space again and your career as an astronaut/cosmonaut is over". There have been lots of stories in the past about how astronauts are treated like lab rats but they put up with it because it's the only way to get to orbit.
Ah the bureaucrat's (Score:5, Funny)
This must have been a bureaucrat level 34 or better that started this. A 35 wouldn't know how to fill out the proper acquisition forms.
Take a few deep breaths, guys (Score:3, Interesting)
The escalation must stop before they argue over sharing of oxygen!
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Ruskies Plan (Score:5, Funny)
"The average Rooskie, son, don't take a dump without a plan."
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Captain Ramius: It reminds me of the heady days of Sputnik and Yuri Gagarin when the world trembled at the sound of our rockets. Now they will tremble again - at the sound of our silence. The order is: engage the silent drive.
Strike! (Score:2)
They should go on strike until normalcy is restored.
Don't use the Vulcan's toilet (Score:5, Interesting)
"Or vice-versa the humans toilet. The Earth-Vulcan politicians are squabbling over the respective costs, and don't want non-citizens using their toilets." - United Federation of Planets, official notice
That's what Star Trek would be like if it were realistic - trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").
Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet (Score:5, Funny)
"Or vice-versa the humans toilet. The Earth-Vulcan politicians are squabbling over the respective costs, and don't want non-citizens using their toilets." - United Federation of Planets, official notice
That's what Star Trek would be like if it were realistic - trade and cost disputes. Or just watch Babylon 5 ("By Any Means Necessary").
I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or Jefferies tubes or something.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
>>>I thought they just beamed the crap directly from your colon into the anti-matter reaction chamber or something.
Yeah that's what they TELL you, but in reality Mr. Scott is a wizard and he utters some magic words, waves his wand, and presto. He just covers-up that fact by mumbling random junk about engines and whatnot. Star Trek is actually a fantasy show, like Harry Potter.
Re:Don't use the Vulcan's toilet (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds familiar... (Score:3, Insightful)
It reminds me of a movie [imdb.com] I've seen before.
How childish a thing to do.
Fair enough, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Fair enough, but... (Score:4, Funny)
Well, he can't go in the American toilet, he can't go in the Russian one. Sounds like he has to boldly go where no man has gone before.
Invisible Lines (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Invisible Lines (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, its amazing to think how much progress has been destroyed, avoided, or never attained because of stupid, idiotic, invisible little lines drawn up by a bunch of dead men. Maybe that's why I love the internet? It's kind of above this bullshit.
I think it's more fair to say that's what was so great about the pre-1990's internet. Once it got politicians' notice, the apoliticalness geek orgy became harder to sustain (DMCA, snooping, RIAA/MPAA, China / Thailand / etc. blocking YouTube, etc.)
Simple Solution (Score:4, Funny)
Do things the RyanAir [avionews.com] way.
How long before... (Score:4, Funny)
One of the agencies sends up a bucket of yellow paint and a paint brush?
(for the bright yellow dividing line down the middle of the station)
Future Presidential Speech text:
"Mr. {insert leader here}, Tear down...er....Wipe Up that line!"
On Soviet Slashdot (Score:3, Insightful)
. . . tired old memes bore you.
Bueaurcratic Paperwork In Space? (Score:3, Funny)
The article mentions all of this could be resolved if the Russians would just sign the formal agreement paperwork (form # URN8-NP) to have a legal document verifying they agree to the terms and for liability reasons.
Re:In Soviet Space Station (Score:5, Insightful)
I think that's pretty much what they're saying: 'Cosmonauts are above the ongoing squabble, no matter what officials decide,' says Padalka. 'We are grown-up, well-educated and good-mannered people and can use our own brains to create normal relationship. It's politicians and bureaucrats who can't reach agreement, not us, cosmonauts and astronauts.'
It's refreshing to have such a public statement of defiance in the face of stupidity. Too bad Republicans and Democrats (not just the politicians but also their brown shirts on the ground) don't do the same in a very forward manner. Yes, Slashdot drones, I'm looking at you.
Re:If he has to go... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Government. (Score:4, Insightful)
The astronauts in the ISS should declare independence and form their own state in the ISS.
Fine, but they shouldn't expect any supply missions or help getting back down...
If you are going to declare "independence" it's a good idea to make sure that you are really "independent" first.