New Laser System Targets Mosquitoes 354
An anonymous reader writes "In the Cold War the so-called 'Star Wars defense system' proposed using lasers to destroy incoming Soviet missiles. In a 2007 brainstorming session aimed at combating malaria, Dr. Lowell Wood, the architect of that system, proposed modifying his original idea to kill mosquitoes. The cover of today's Wall Street Journal contains an article that highlights this initiative as well as a few others, like using a giant flashlight to disrupt mosquitoes' vision and using the insects to vaccinate, in the war against malaria. The system is intelligent enough to avoid noncombatants like humans and butterflies and can even tell the difference between females, the blood-drinkers, and males. My favorite quote: 'We'd be delighted if we destabilize the human-mosquito balance of power.'"
First post? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: Hit by lasers? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:First post? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Another good use... (Score:5, Interesting)
I was thinking about that a while ago.
A rotating laser leveling system like the dewalt [lowes.com] uses dual lasers with a 600 feet range and rotates faster then the camera can recover. I was thinking of a way to widen the beam on a vertical axis to flood the cameras I first attempted to insert a filter but lacked any that could readily be used without modification. I then attempted to mount mirrors at various angles but the beam was too narrow.
Then a friend came around with a cop who took him to my house after his car was broken down and stranded on the road. The police have cameras now that read license plate numbers and they can press a single button and it retrieve registration information from it. Anyways, his video display went blank when he pulled in the drive and asked me what I was doing. I said rigging an automatic gate opener and attempted to claim I wanted to open a gate and the garage doors when I entered the drive way plus maybe turn a few light on.
The cop then told me that it was illegal to mount lasers like that to a car. It's covered under the radar jammer laws in which a cop uses laser radar. He also mentioned that it blinded his cameras in the cruiser which is what attracted him to me. He was cool with it but warned me that I could be in some trouble. I mention this because if you do attempt to do it, keep in mind that it might already be illegal in your area and if everyone else is without it, it isn't going to be hard for a cop around you to figure out you have something like that. Especially at night when you can't see them coming.
On the other hand, if you do get something figured out, let me know because I'm still interested. I just don't want a ticket or jail time over it.
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Interesting system... (Score:5, Funny)
...but where are you supposed to keep the sharks?
Re:Interesting system... (Score:5, Funny)
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Breeding Mosquitoes (Score:5, Funny)
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Of course surrounding your lair with a water filled moat might not be the best idea if you are wanting to get rid of mosquitoes.
Stock it with Koi.
Koi with frikkin' laser beams!
Re:Breeding Mosquitoes (Score:4, Funny)
You need to feed the goldfish the sharks will be eating on something. Sounds like a perfect ecosystem. Sharks fry mosquitoes, goldfish eat fried mosquito, and sharks eat goldfish. When you run out of mosquitoes, you can hang a banner across the drawbridge: "Mission Accomplished!" and celebrate.
And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, instead of just disrupting her vision with a laser, I divorced her...
Re:And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Rats do roam the streets unchecked. (Score:2)
You don't live in a big city,do you...
Think of the foxes, barn owls and red kites.
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Re:And then? (Score:4, Funny)
Screw the snakes.
In this economy climate, how many Pied Pipers will be laid off?
Re:And then? (Score:5, Informative)
Although bats and Purple Martins can be prodigious consumers of insects, many of which are pests, less than 1% of their diet typically consists of mosquitoes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito [wikipedia.org]
There are no known mosquito predators that eat only mosquitoes.
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Which is why I say we wipe em out.
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Wasps unfortunately do have a purpose. They eat/kill the larvae of plant damaging bugs. We had a really bad infestation of Japanese Beetles in the farms around my place a few years ago and the best way to get rid of them was to release a bunch of wasps. It did help get the population down without chemicals or losing a bunch of crops. Unfortunately it sucked to be outside that year. No BBQ's at my place.
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Well if you're going to be a self important pendant
Flavor Flav, is that you?
Re:And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand what you're saying, -- seriously, we would probably agree on a lot of things -- but where mosquitoes are a real health hazard, there tend not to be adequate predators. The two issues kind-of go hand in hand.
It's much easier to have these concerns in a first world country where the issue has been controlled. I hope you appreciate that someone living in the Sahel may feel differently.
I'm a little concerned that we'll reach a point where we tell a third world country, where significant numbers of people are dying of malaria, "We have this technology that will make a profound difference in the mosquito vector, but we're not going to allow you to use it because we're concerned about potential, but as-yet unspecified damage to your environment. Hope the fever gets better."
What I love (Score:2)
Is that they include a bunch of speculative technologies, but completely fail to mention ones which are already proven to work and which are already available.
Actually I think this is dangerous for other reaso (Score:5, Funny)
The basic issue is that you have a laser system capable of reaching down into the atmosphere to kill things close to or on the ground. There are two basic problems:
1) That takes a LOT of power. If refueling the original star wars system was likely to be a problem, this is a million times worse.
2) Theoretically such a system could be revised to hit other targets. Who would control it? Suppose terrorists hacked it. Suppose the military co-opted it. All manner of bad things could happen with such a system. For example, imagine if you could blind even a small fraction of New Yorkers, especially those driving on the roads on rush hour.... The effect might be far worse than 9/11.....
I smell a cover for a new more powerful and destabilizing weapons platform in space. The thing simply can't be useful against mosquitos and the only real use I can see would be on the battlefield.
Re:Actually I think this is dangerous for other re (Score:5, Funny)
> The basic issue is that you have a laser system capable of reaching down into the atmosphere to kill things close to or on the ground. There are two basic problems:
The first being, I really don't think anyone is suggesting we nuke mosquitoes from orbit. I mean, that would be really cool, and if they do it that way I hope I get a chance to see it in action. I can just imagine the gentle sparkle of flaming mosquitoes lighting up the twilight sky over Khartoum. It would be a tourist attraction.
But, reading the article, they talk about must shorter distances, like, say, across the room. Although disappointing, this kind-of solves the power problem, and the hijacking problem, and the destabilizing weapons platform in space problem. (We'll leave that last one to the Chinese.)
I don't have an opinion about blinding commuters from space, except to say the view from space is pretty much straight down, so you'd have to get a bunch of commuters to all look up at the same time. But if you could do that, blinding them would be redundant.
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Or consider DDT in the very same War on (Some) Malaria.
Re:And then? (Score:5, Informative)
> Am I the only one who thinks that humans need to stop fucking around the with the order
> of things and deal with it?
Unfortunately, no.
> Finding a cure for malaria (in our own bodies, which we're at liberty to fuck with)
But then we won't be able to transmit it to mosquitos, which are also negatively affected by it. More mosquitos... but then pressure on other prey. Suddenly other species go extinct or apex predators populations explode because that of the oversupply of mosquitos.
The same argument can be applied to many diseases. Obviously, we must stop trying to control disease and just learn to deal with it.
Get this through your head: there is no "order of things." God/Gaia/Mother Nature does not exist and never did. Eden never happened.
Re:And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Permanent effects? I hope this system has permanent effects on the mosquitos, and that permanent effect is they fucking die. There are TRILLIONS of the goddamn things on this planet. Carving out a bunch of yard sized pockets where the little bloodsuckers can't go without meeting hot laser death is not going to make even the slightest dent in their overall population. Even if these systems blanketed every urban area on the planet, we'd probably still only nail 2% of them. Species wise, that's a rounding error on a census.
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What if the mosquito population is actually a symptom for a deeper problem? This solution may be the equivalent of sewing up the skin where a compound fracture broke through without setting the bone.
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Also, what if the patient has no arms? What exactly are you sewing up then, huh?
Re:And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't normally advocate genocide (after the first cup of coffee), but when it comes to mosquitos I find it hard to come up with compelling arguments against.
How bout the genocide of the cute and cuddly smallpox virus? Poor defenseless mother earth once again at the mercy of evil scientists, especially those horrible exploiting capitalists.
I'm sure we can keep some mosquitoes in a liquid nitrogen freezer just in case... until they escape, anyway...
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Aren't there cases where we need to sometimes give nature a 'helping hand'. Can't think of any atm, but I'm sure I remember something.
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
Now that I've moved out to California- whenever I hear "It's buggy"- I just have to laugh.
You don't know "buggy" until you've seen a giant mosquito eat a small child... in fact...
THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
That wasn't a Texas mosquito. That was a Canadian mosquito that rode down on a goose to get away from the big ones back home.
Re:And then? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Pet peeve, but technically 1/1 is a fraction. I.e. killing a fraction of all mosquitoes would kill them all where $fraction = 1/1.
A small or tiny fraction - now that's different :)
Sorry - buried in math at the moment
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or the Dragonflies, and they are thinking of them by avoiding the male mosquitoes. If you think mosquito SDI will even have a tiny impact on their population, move somewhere like northern Wisconsin or pretty much anywhere in Minnesota during a rainy summer. Your mini laser will probably burn out its barrel just nailing a small percentage of the females.
Re:And then? (Score:5, Funny)
You need to try to imagine more mosquitoes. A hell of a lot more.
Well, insects seem to be able to find a way to make a comeback each time we mess with them. I for one do not want to see what a infrared vision, laser resistant mosquito would be like...
Cost/Benefit? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I would think you'd need quite a jolt to kill a mosquito too, especially in laser form. What would the electricity bill be on this thing just to shoot down some mosquitoes? Hell, screw that, give me a laser system to kill carpenter bees and you have yourself a sale.
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Hell, screw that, give me a laser system to kill carpenter bees and you have yourself a sale.
s/carpenter bees/door-to-door (salesmen|evangelists)/;
or more immediately practical
s/carpenter bees/the SWAT team about to kick in my door/;
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What would the electricity bill be on this thing just to shoot down some mosquitoes?
I believe it's part of the stimulus package. Either that or this will be used as an excuse to keep the sales tax increase in California.
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> I would think you'd need quite a jolt to kill a mosquito too...
I would think that you'd need quite a small jolt to kill a mosquito. The idea is just to kill it, not vaporize it.
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The propane and pheromone methods are also limited in that they are harshly affected by weather, and may not be at all available in the areas where their needed most. These methods are prominent in the US only because of our abundance of propane and pheromone production.
they're next to worthless (Score:5, Informative)
I wonder how the performance of this system compares to one of the numerous CO2+odor attractant trapping systems already in use.
My folks have two- and despite that, they still have tons of mosquitoes and the traps take weeks to fill up.
They have $$$ odor cartridges that last barely a week or two, the traps are really gross to empty (and usually full of really angry, hungry mosquitoes), you have to go to the hardware store often to fill the tanks, people steal the machines (they're expensive), the traps are ridiculously unreliable (they don't like getting wet...the idiots used exposed circuit boards and freakin' PC COMPUTER FANS). Nevermind they're burning LNG/propane 24x7 and use at least 30W-40W of electricity; not exactly enlightened from a climate/environmental perspective these days.
If you don't like mosquitoes, build/buy some bird and bat shelters and put 'em up.
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Most effective is the 30 Watt UV lights with 110V closely spaced screens. the old tyme "BUG ZAPPER" I had 4 for my home in mid michigan and every evening in the summer you would hear them frying nearly non stop. In the morning the huge pile of dead bodies below them were a testament to their effectiveness.
The cool part, the birds love them. the pile of bugs you see at 6am will be gone by 7am when the birdies come by to feast.
Couple with that chemicals that also kills the damned things in the grass and
One problem with the propane systems... (Score:5, Interesting)
His solution so far has been to run 3 of them at once for short periods of time during the day when he can periodically empty them.
I'm not sure how much propane they use, but he has also complained about that. Since he has to fly it all in, and propane bottles aren't the most efficient use of weight/space in a plane. I also wonder about the environmental effects of using those on a large scale. How much C02 do they actually produce?
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The article talks about disrupting their vision. I'm sorry but anything less than little puffs of smoke from mosquitoes being zapped out of the air is unacceptable.
We'd probably just end up breeding a race of laser resistant mosquitoes anyway.
solution in search of a problem (Score:4, Interesting)
Talk about a solution in search of a problem. So let me understand this. We are going to go into 3rd world countries and install autonomous flying drones that zap bugs with on board lasers? Isn't there perhaps a cheaper solution?
When did they get good enough to hit the warheads? Did the press stop covering the testing when they started showing some success? I just haven't heard of a big "star wars" defense system test that succeeded.
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Talk about a solution in search of a problem.
Dude, it doesn't matter what the problem is. Lasers are always the solution!
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Well, the other solution is to distribute anti-malaria drugs to millions and millions of people across these third world countries from now until.. well, forever.
Also, while you may not personally have to deal with malaria on a regular basis, lots of people do have to worry about it. Thousands, if not millions of people die from it. That certainly qualifies as a "problem" to me. There is no search necessary as long as you look somewhere other than your backyard.
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Malaria isn't the only fatal illness carried by mosquitos, just the one that gets the most attention, so don't stop your cost assessment with just malaria.
Mosquitos kill more humans every year than any other animal. Of course, introducing mosquito controls into regions where religion or ignorance (but I repeat myself) prohibits birth control is likely to cause even more problems, but at least they're self-inflicted problems for the population in question.
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Star Wars never worked, and still doesn't, because intercepting reasonably modern ICBMs is really difficult. Hitting small, distinctly subsonic, wholly unarmored, non-countermeasure-deploying, organisms that spend most of their time hovering is orders of magnitude easier.
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No, we will install a box on a back wall of my house overlooking the backyard and with a LoS t most windows and then turn it on.
After that we will continually upgrade the software until I can keep my windows open in the hot summer nights without becoming big and red from the damn bites.
After that we sell millions of those compact boxes to other people in the US with an option to send another of those boxes over to a malaria infested village in the 3rd world.
???
Profit!
Coincidence? (Score:2, Funny)
Now, that's a bug zapper (Score:2)
I want one in my back yard. Could be really entertaining.
Seriously, in my area we have bats, and mosquitoes aren't much of a problem.
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Very cool, but Zaphod said it best: (Score:3, Funny)
Is this new??? (Score:5, Funny)
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I saw this before... (Score:5, Interesting)
The premise was that honey bees flapped their wings at a lower frequency. Targeting the higher frequency enabled the device to precisely target only the invading killer bees.
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to control infestations of africanized bees
The slang term is "Biggers". Kind of like "Wiggers" only it's in regards to bees.
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Already exists (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk [youtube.com]
i'll buy one (Score:3, Funny)
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By order of Bobby Mugabe, Zimbabwe currency will now use exponential notation.
Please queue up for the new 1E12 bill (terabuck for a clusterfuck).
non-combatant? (Score:2)
Since when were the humans non-combatant in this?
Sounds like a very American attitude...
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So, lasers don't kill mosquitos, people do?
Dual Purpose Laser System (Score:4, Funny)
bats and birds, anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, the populace would be far better served by figuring out what indigenous creatures prey on the mosquitoes, and encouraging their habitat. If there aren't any, carefully try an introduction of bats / birds. Careful meaning "find out if they like to eat anything else that doesn't spread malaria."
Around here in the US, you can actually buy "bat boxes" that come with instructions on finding the best location. You have to leave it up for a couple months, but eventually, bam, you've got your own personal furry little mosquito vacuum...and they are damned efficient at it.
That would be the smart solution, but instead, we have local/city/state governments spewing chemicals into the air...
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We have bats in Austin, and still way too many mosquitos.
The most practical solution I have found is to cower indoors with the AC on playing Call of Duty.
full quote was actually a bit fuzzy... (Score:4, Funny)
"We'd be delighted if we destabilize the human-mosquito balance of power. Yes gentlemen, we're on the way in and no one can bring us back. For the sake of our country and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of our sharks in after them, otherwise we will be totally destroyed by mosquito retaliation. My boys will give you the best kind of start, fourteen hundred megawatts worth, and you sure as hell won't stop them now. So let's get going. There's no other choice. God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all."
Then he hung up. We're still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase.
There is an easier way (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, if we would drain all the pools at foreclosed homes [medheadlines.com], that would have a significant impact as well.
Granted, if you're in the south where there are thousands of acres of swamp land, you might have a problem breeding enough dragonflies to make a dent in the mosquito population.
Then again, bats are wonderful eaters of mosquitoes [ufl.edu]. For those who have the room, bat boxes [batcon.org] will provide an invitation for bats to do their work. As most bats don't come out until sundown, there will be no interference with your enjoyment of your yard during the day while at night, you can watch and cheer them on as they devour those annoying mosquitoes.
What The Fuck? (Score:5, Insightful)
In a 2007 brainstorming session aimed at combating malaria, Dr. Lowell Wood, the architect of that system, proposed modifying his original idea to kill mosquitoes.
There are 2 morals to this little story:
1: Who the fuck invites anti ballistic missile system developers to brainstorming sessions on how to fight malaria?
2: If the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
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If the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Yah, but if the only tool you know how to use is a laser and every problem looks like a space alien, then fuck it, man, I'm on board.
Re:What The Fuck? (Score:4, Insightful)
You realize, this means laser resistant mosquitoes (Score:5, Insightful)
Given their high breeding rate, anything short of 100% extermination will mean mosquitoes that are immune to lasers within 10-20 years.
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I could see it being taken as a joke- but I'm serious.
Anything with a high breeding rate will suffer 99.9% losses- the remaining .1% will be partially resistant to the problem and replace itself in a single breeding season. Even within days for bacteria.
If you cant' get 100%, it's better to pass.
Re:You realize, this means laser resistant mosquit (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, evolution isn't magic. The scenario you're describing assumes that some mosquitos could survive this weapon today. If we get away from the "one breeding season" assumption and allow a longer timeframe, it still assumes that a solution is within the range of biological adaptation, which is not a sure thing.
So the odds are we're not moving toward "laser-proof" mosquitos any moreso than we have bullet-proof deer running around. You might get mosquitos that evade the targeting system -- females that beat their wings like males, or individuals that present a profile that looks more like a butterfly to the computer. And if so... then you're back where you started, having played out a temporary repreive from the mosquito problem.
In other words, it's only better to pass if the adaptation in the mosquitos actually makes the problem worse.
"Can't be wiped out by lasers" isn't worse in the context that your alternative is to not wipe them out with lasers anyway.
A mechanism for resistance has to be available (Score:3, Insightful)
"Anything with a high breeding rate will suffer 99.9% losses- the remaining .1% will be partially resistant to the problem and replace itself in a single breeding season."
Of course, a mechanism for resistance has to be available for this to happen. It is rather difficult to imagine how a mosquito could become "resistant" to a laser - it can hardly evolve into being transparent, or fully reflective.
The only avenue for "resistance" would be to cease to be attracted to humans, and thus not be in the area where
All we need to do (Score:3, Funny)
Like the Star Wars system (Score:2)
It works about 50% of the time if you know exactly when and where the mosquitoes are at the time of the attack.
AIG bonus-receiving-executive version . . . ? (Score:2)
How come I associate blood-sucking insects with that pitifully poor insurers' executives?
Methinks I would like to also be a Darth Vader of this product lasers having, and get Medieval with them.
Insects to vaccinate? (Score:3, Interesting)
Stolen Images (Score:2)
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Mosquito&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2 [google.com]
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3313_46123_24554-68318--,00.html [michigan.gov]
Oblig remaining eye (Score:3, Funny)
I'm the Shark (Score:5, Informative)
I work at the Intellectual Ventures Lab where this system is being created. Just wanted to respond to a few points in the comments:
DDT is non-discriminatory. It does kill mosquitoes, but it harms lots of other life forms as well. Because of its abuse, there are bans and economic sanctions that prevent its use. Changing that is a political problem.
Using lasers, we don't expect to eradicate mosquitoes entirely, but they can be a way to help reduce their populations enough that malaria can't survive. In particular, the laser system can help create a perimeter to keep people safe.
As far as we know, there aren't any species that rely solely on mosquitoes as a food source.
Thanks, I will try to respond if there are further questions here.
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generally, every life form slots in somewhere in the ecosystem "in balance"
I suggest you review the definition of "parasite".
Re:pests (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems mosquitoes are one of those rare creatures that provides very little benefit to the ecosystem they belong to. They don't kill their prey, so they don't limit the population of any other animals. Also, they make up a relatively small proportion of food for the animals that they are prey to (even bats, well known for keeping bug populations down, only get about 1% of their diet from mosquitoes).
Even so, I would be reluctant to wipe them off the face of the Earth completely. We simply don't know enough about how everything fits together in all the ecosystems of the world. I'd be more interested in finding ways to kill them off where they spread disease and limit their population in other areas. After all, the last time we tried to kill them off completely in the US we destroyed the raptor population almost to the point of extinction just because we didn't realize how harmful the chemical of choice was.
Re:pests (Score:5, Insightful)
They don't kill their prey, so they don't limit the population of any other animals.
You may have slightly overshot there. The fact they kill more humans than any other animal does is sort of the problem.
Speaking of which- is that their purpose? Are Mosquitoes there with the express purpose of controlling the human population?
I for one welcome our mosquito overlords...
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If we could get rid of them, would they be the first species humanity exterminated AND made the world a better place by doing so?
Clearly, you did not google or wikipedia "smallpox virus" before your post.
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> what I want to know is, is there such a slot for the mosquito? what "purpose" do they
> serve?
They help control the human population.
> would there be problems for the ecosystem if the mosquito becomes extinct?
The planet would soon be overrun with people.
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US national debt decreased yearly from WW II until Reagan hit in 1980. He doubled it, Bush I increased it some more, and it leveled off under Clinton. Bush II doubled or tripled it. Obama is going to increase it, but mostly to repair the damage done by Bush II.
Yeah, because we all know that the President has complete and final budget-setting powers, right? Who controlled Congress under Reagan again?
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Yeah, because we all know that the President has complete and final budget-setting powers, right? Who controlled Congress under Reagan again?
Exactly. And who controlled congress during the Clinton years?
Clinton is getting way more credit than he deserves for the balanced budget, which the Republican congress voted for and passed.