More Brains Needed 232
Hugh Pickens writes "BBC reports that more people need to donate their brains to medical research if cures for diseases like dementia are to be found and are urging healthy people as well as those with brain disorders to become donors. 'For autism, we only have maybe 15 or 20 brains that have been donated that we can do our research on. That is drastically awful,' said Dr Payam Rezaie of the Neuropathology Research Laboratory at the Open University. 'We would need at least 100 cases to get meaningful data. A lot of research is being hindered by this restriction.' Part of the problem, according to Professor Margaret Esiri at the University of Oxford, may be that people are reluctant to donate their brains because they see the organ as the basis of their identity. 'It used to be other parts of the body that we thought were important,' says Esin. 'But now people realize that their brain is the crucial thing that gives them their mind and their self.' Dr Kieran Breen, of the Parkinson's Disease Society, said over 90% of the brains in their bank at Imperial College London were from patients, with the remaining 10% of 'healthy' brains donated by friends or relatives of patients. 'Some people are under the impression that if they sign up for a donor card that will include donating their brain for research. But it won't,' says Breen. 'Donor cards are about donating organs for transplant, not for medical science.'"
Over my dead body! (Score:5, Funny)
You can have my brain when you pry it from my cold, dead...
Oh wait.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Y'know, they never really specified whether the donated brains were from the living or the dead...
Anyone remember the Live Organ Donor skit from Monty Python?
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, live brains are sometimes used in medical research, usually embryonic. I've read papers that talk about observing human embryonic cortical development in culture. Naturally, the sources for those brains are not well publicized.
Re: (Score:2)
Edit: shouldn't have said "usually embryonic." What I meant was that was the only time I had run across live human brain tissue in use.
Re:Over my dead body! (Score:5, Funny)
I suspect they'd be from inside heads.
Re:Over my dead body! (Score:5, Funny)
Naturally, the sources for those brains are not well publicized.
I suspect they'd be from inside heads.
Those are female brains then.
Re:Over my dead body! (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not like it's going to be much to use to me. Just hoping they'll still be around, since I'm hoping it'll still be some way off.
Re:Over my dead body! (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
That, I don't want.
Re: Your brains (Score:3, Insightful)
Is anybody else here thinking of Jonathan Coulton's Re: Your Brains [youtube.com]?
Heya, Tom' its Bob from the office down the hall
Good to see you, buddy; howve you been?
Thing have been OK for me except that Im a zombie now
I really wish youd let us in
I think I speak for all of us when I say I understand
Why you folks might hesitate to submit to our demand
But heres an FYI: youre all gonna die, screaming
(chorus)
(zombies) "All we want to do is eat your brains!"
Were not unreasonable; I mean, no ones gonna eat y
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
'Some people are under the impression that if they sign up for a donor card that will include donating their brain for research. But it won't,' says Breen.
Does anyone else feel a uncomfortable at just doing what Dr. Breen says?
Re: (Score:2)
Calling Dr. Freeman. Grab your HEV suit and crowbar, 'cause Dr. Breen is at it again!
Many fear cost... (Score:2)
...I know I do. I've heard horror stories over and over again about how donating your body to science means racking up large bills for your family.
Offer me a 'cheaper than being buried' option, and I'd consider it.
Re: (Score:2)
I've not heard those horror stories. I sort of expected it would be free.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The only cost I've ever heard of is if you want to donate it to some far away medical school, you have to pay to transport it there. Other than that, it should be free.
Of course, I don't want to donate my body to medical science because I am uncomfortable with the idea of all those medical students laughing^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hstaring in awe at my junk.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Are you sure it was "donating your body" and not "paying the mafia to take a dead body away?"
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Here in Canada, at least, you can give your body to science (I have a will that says it's what I want for myself). They use it for whatever needs, keep organs they can use, and return the rest incinerated. No cost anywhere there.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I for one (Score:2)
won't someone THINK of the children!? (Score:4, Funny)
ie, I bet they have all the adult brains they need. how about some child brains?
"think of the children"
come on, kids. some of you are not using yours. can't you help the good cause out?
I gave at the office (Score:5, Funny)
It's not that I don't want to donate my brain, it's just that I've already promised other people that I would have my brain cryogenically frozen so that I can be resurrected at some point in the future, and I'd hate to let those people down.
Re:I gave at the office (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I gave at the office (Score:5, Funny)
I've already promised other people that I would have my brain cryogenically frozen so that I can be resurrected at some point in the future
Ah, you must be a Cobol programmer.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Not quite... [wikipedia.org]
wah. (Score:2)
Grow up (Score:5, Insightful)
Get over the fact that the universe doesn't care about you and help science!
Re:Grow up (Score:4, Funny)
Get over the fact that the universe doesn't care about you and help science!
When you put it that way... fuck the universe, I'm keeping it!
Re:Grow up (Score:4, Funny)
It's not like your brain wont be rotting in the ground anyway.
Some people's brains are getting a head start on rotting.
Re: (Score:2)
Except the atoms that I'm borrowing to live will be reconstituted in other life. In effect, I will be reincarnated as many different lifeforms.
Given a choice between continuing that cycle and either having my brain sit in a jar of formaldahyde (or sliced up into slides), I'll take the former.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You have a strange definition of "I". You are not merely the atoms of which you are composed. In fact 98% [npr.org] of the atoms in your body are replaced yearly. It's not the atoms that matter, it's the pattern they're arranged in. Allowing scientists to study that pattern, and preserve even just a little bit of that information reincarnates you in a much more real way than reuse of the atoms in your corpse.
Re: (Score:2)
Get over the fact that the universe doesn't care about you and help science!
But the universe doesn't care about science either.
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly, once I am dead, why the fuck would I care about science or whatever? I won't, so they can go fuck themselves.
Donor Cards (Score:5, Funny)
'Some people are under the impression that if they sign up for a donor card that will include donating their brain for research. But it won't,' says Breen. 'Donor cards are about donating organs for transplant, not for medical science.'"
Well to be honest, I have always kinda hoped that having my donor card would mean they might transplant my brain...
Re: (Score:2)
I've always thought the problem was that it's an opt-in system, and that the relatives seem to often be able to over-rule what the person selected on their drivers license.
I think we should make it opt-out. There would be so many more organs available for research and transplant, we could save quite a few lives.
Re: (Score:2)
I think we should make it opt-out. There would be so many more organs available for research and transplant, we could save quite a few lives.
Well one particularly stupid and annoying argument I could see some particularly stupid and annoying and coincidentally persuasive individuals making is that evil/liberal doctors would then euthanize people to harvest their organs.
Probably the more likely reason it's opt-in instead of opt-out is the inevitable greedy lawsuits that "grieving" families would pursue. "He totally had an opt out card at home in a shoebox under his bed, but they took his liver anyway! Poor Johnny wanted to be intact for the gre
Re: (Score:2)
1. Most of the time I would think they would not be able to get any useable organs for transplant if the body was unidentifable anyway.
2. They could and would err on the safe side and not harvest organs from John Does. I'd wager that most people who die at hospitals have identification on them. Even if most don't, it would still be more organs donated and more lives saved.
Mmmm, Brains (Score:2)
The main problem I have with donating body parts for scientific research is that I don't want silly medical students using bits of me to play pranks on each other!
Re:Mmmm, Brains (Score:5, Funny)
The main problem I have with donating body parts for scientific research is that I don't want silly medical students using bits of me to play pranks on each other!
Are you kidding?! Biohazardous pranks are hilarious! How can you not donate to that cause?!
Re: (Score:2)
I dunno. I kinda like the idea of my dead body parts causing a few laughs, after I am dead.
Toe in a taco? Butt in a burger?
I just hope that this doesn't increase medical students appetite for human flesh.
Re: (Score:2)
More Brains Needed (Score:3, Funny)
They certainly are. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be the in the other direction. Especially among politicians.
What about cadavers? (Score:2)
The medical students are practicing with dead bodies all the time. Why can't those brains?
Who Knew??? (Score:4, Funny)
Medical Researchers were zombies? ANYONE???
No way (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:No way (Score:5, Funny)
That's why I'm donating mine to 'Will it Blend?'.
Re: (Score:2)
Will It Blend - Hannibal Lecter edition.
I'll donate the fava beans...
Packing Instructions (Score:4, Funny)
And don't risk using UPS, since Sterling Courier Systems is the pathologist's preferred shipper.
Cooking Instructions? (Score:3, Funny)
They seem to be missing.
Flawed assumptions (Score:4, Funny)
That's not necessarily true. For example, I do a lot of thinking with another part of my anatomy. Ask anyone.
Re: (Score:2)
That's not necessarily true. For example, I do a lot of thinking with another part of my anatomy. Ask anyone.
It's true, folks!
I asked Linux_ho's former roommate, and he said that Linux_ho has most definitely used his uvula to handle some sticky situations.
Quite expertly, I might add.
Healthy as well as with brain disorders? (Score:5, Funny)
Obvious solution (Score:4, Funny)
Replace the removed brain with an electronic brain. A simple one would suffice. All it would have to do is say "What?" and "Where's the tea?"
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Replace the removed brain with an electronic brain. A simple one would suffice
A 6502 would be ideal.
Re: (Score:2)
Replace the removed brain with an electronic brain. A simple one would suffice
A 6502 would be ideal.
It worked for Ahnold.
contact your local medical school (Score:5, Informative)
My mom had completed the paperwork to donate her body to the local medical school before she found out she had a rare degenerative (untreatable and invariably fatal) neuromuscular disorder. in her consultations with the neurology team at the local school, they determined that the leading research team was at another major university, so they just added that school to the paperwork to receive her brain and spinal cord. other than completing the paperwork, signing it and advising her next of kin, the process was seamless. the funeral home guys picked her up after she died and we gave them the paperwork. the university guys took it from there.
easy. and very satisfying.
To be fair.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Trying to cure Autism is like trying to cure innate stupiditity, I have serious doubts you'll be able to change the neurological wiring with any efficacy.
Certain learning techniques can be used to improve synaptic formation in those with a lower amount of total neurons, thus increasing their mental capacity somewhat, which works for some of those individuals born with below-average intelligence. But how do you fix someone with "too many"?
Of course, currently, most Psychologists/Psychiatrists work on the concept of treatment with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and/or drug treatment:
"Now Jimmy, if people are WRONG, just go along with it and pretend they aren't, and here, have some SSRIs, we dont' know if these will fuck you up for life, but it's easier on everyone else if we give you pills".
How about we just lobotomize [wikipedia.org] them all instead? Sound good?!
The sentance above is an example of hostile sarcasm.
Anyway, I'm more than happy to donate any bits of me that Medical Research can use!
Disclaimer: I'm not a Neurologist/Neurosurgeon/Neuropsychiatrist - happy for anyone else to correct me if I'm incorrect somewhere and they've got the knowledge.
Re: (Score:2)
We are unlikely to be able to do much without substantially greater understanding of how the brain works; but brains are really, really plastic, so we have every reason to believe
Re:To be fair.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I have a PhD and autism, so that makes me autistic but not stupid. Simon Baron-Cohen, a autism researcher, has expressed his worry that "curing" autism could reduce the number people studying maths and other professions that require good systematizing ability, a strength possessed by people with autism. Here is his comment on the BBC website...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7736196.stm [bbc.co.uk]
I agree that the way to discourage curing autism, at least getting people to consider its wider implications that go beyond autism, is to connect the search into a cure with the search for genes that code for personality traits.
It is known that people with Autism and Asperger's are far more likely to vote in certain political directions and express a different degree of religiosity, so we are looking at personalty traits - of all people not just autistic people - when we look for a cure. It is scary stuff, the general public does not understand the ethics or its wider implications.
Re: (Score:2)
Completely agree with you...
It is scary stuff, the general public does not understand the ethics or its wider implications.
Which is why I believe it needs to be talked about, so people understand what it is, as you'll know, Autism covers a spectrum of conditions (according to my current understanding of it).
My annoyance is when people stereotype behaviours that aren't exhibited by every individual within the spectrum.
Re: (Score:2)
It's more than just the spectrum thing. Yes there are different classifications of it, (which mostly boil down to how impaired communication is) but aside from a few core symptoms of each spectrum, there are hundreds of things associated with autism which any individual has a sampling of.
+1, Bingo!!! :) (Score:2)
there are hundreds of things associated with autism which any individual has a sampling of.
Wait, you mean, I could randomly say... because someone is very interested in something "uncommon" and spends time doing it, and also mistypes the occasional letter, or uses uncommon language, that they have Autism/Aspergers [slashdot.org]???
;)
Oh, and that typically these tendancies are exhibited mostly in males? (and sometimes sound alot like savantism?)
Do the Psychiatric community know this?!?!?!
Re: (Score:2)
"Certain learning techniques can be used to improve synaptic formation in those with a lower amount of total neurons"
The idea that autistics have a lower amount of total neurons is quite the opposite, people who are autistic have larger then average brains. Elephants have very large brains as well but I doubt anyone would consider elephants even as smart as many low IQ human beings.
Currently not much is understood about autism at all.
Re: (Score:2)
The idea that autistics have a lower amount of total neurons is quite the opposite, people who are autistic have larger then average brains.
That's not what I said, I was giving the opposite end of the spectrum as an example, my meaning is being misinterpreted, read my other posts before jumping to conclusions.
Currently not much is understood about autism at all.
This, in a sense, is the point I was trying to make regarding the prescription (by a number of the Psychiatric community) of SSRIs, I don't think this is a good thing, seeing as we don't know enough about the condition.
Re: (Score:2)
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not saying it shouldn't be studied, I just seriously doubt people will be able to "cure" something that I suspect is linked to inheritable Genetic traits.
Of course you could move into the territory of Eugenics, but I think that's a slippery slope to tread.
Learning about or understanding more about the condition [unimelb.edu.au] is never a bad thing.
Re: (Score:2)
One of the conditions mentioned is Tourette's Syndrome. We have some ideas about what that does to the brain, but only a few, there are things we don't really understand. And, more importantly, we have no idea *why* those things happen, or which gene (or combination of genes) creates the susceptibility to it.
If we could even identify more of the differences between a normal brain and a Tourettic brain, then perhaps we could trace that back to some of the responsible genes... which is practically the Holy
Re: (Score:2)
So you're comparing autism to stupidity? Fantastic. It's not like autistics aren't already treated like shit. We are put in Special Ed classes, treated like we can't learn, like we are broken or inferior.
Most autistics have higher intelligence levels than neurotypicals, yet we have a harder time communicating such. Autism is a communication problem, not a stupidity problem.
No, I'm saying exactly what you are, and have done, if you read my post history before jumping to conclusions you will have a better undrstanding of the point I am/was trying to make.
Another flawed assumption you make is that I myself do not fall within some point of the autism spectrum, and haven't endured exactly what you describe at various points of my life.
The least you could do if you're trying to attack my credibility is post without anonymity.
Ethics, line 1... (Score:2, Interesting)
I have known several nurses, and many more in the helping professions, and their advice has been universally the same to me: Never get an organ donor card. Never. This is for two reasons. The first is that there is a huge shortage of tissue across the board. The second is that most of the hospital staff knows this and they aren't going to work as hard to save your life if you've got one of those organ donor cards. My friends have actually overheard doctors talking and saying to the effect of -- "Well, he ki
Re:Ethics, line 1... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
err..wait.
Having been in the medical field for a while, from my complete experience, this is nonsense. I can't remember the last hospital I visited in the eastern side of the United States that had only one surgeon avialable on any given day. The truth is these guys do put in some serious hours but there is almost always more than one (...and for obvious reasons). So the story of the nurse or doctor mentioned wanting to relieve this surgeon is bogus.
If anyone truly believes this, I encourage you to never
FUD... in the most vile form. (Score:5, Insightful)
Even more despicable than trying to create fear, uncertainty and doubt of Open-Source, are people who try to do the same thing against those who would save lives... I hope you sleep well girlintraining.
Re: (Score:2)
What dramatic writing. However, donor cards still serve the common good over the individual.
As for you credibility, you claim what you write is no rumor, so please post the folks who own up to this as your sources.
The more people that have them, the less any "laziness effect" might appear on behalf of ER medicine.
I call bullshit (Score:2)
No. I'm not lying. No this isn't an urban legend. No I didn't hear this from a friend of a friend, I heard this directly from the mouths of the people who can point out names and faces of the people who have said stuff like this--Just so we're clear.
Yeah, that's what the urban legends always say.
If somebody actually did say that to you, they're putting you on.
Are you still going to believe them when they tell you about having sex with corpses?
Re: (Score:2)
That sounds bad, if you're the guy on the table. What if you're one of the 5 people those organs will save?
Re: (Score:2)
The first is that there is a huge shortage of tissue across the board. The second is that most of the hospital staff knows this and they aren't going to work as hard to save your life if you've got one of those organ donor cards.
Sorry, but your comment is made of FAIL. ER docs don't harvest organs, and their jobs are some sort of test where they get partial credit for saving the organs but not their owners.
Learn what you're talking about. Until then, keep your urban legends to yourself.
Re:Ethics, line 1... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Wait until they're dead (Score:4, Funny)
' Part of the problem, according to Professor Margaret Esiri at the University of Oxford, may be that people are reluctant to donate their brains because they see the organ as the basis of their identity.
I would have thought that they only accepted brain donations from families of people who have already died. Certainly donating your brain while you are still alive would have an effect on your identity. I would hope this practice stops.
Get in line... (Score:2)
I need more people with brains at my job too.
I've done it in Aus (Score:2)
I have donated my brain in Australia
http://www.braindonors.org/ [braindonors.org]
I'm not gonna be needing it after the Aus Gov filter my internet... so why keep it ? :-P
Re: (Score:2)
Thats really not something you can say in past tense.......
I want that article icon (Score:2)
for a desktop item picture, it'll make a great folder icon for say, Documents. But masked properly please, a black box border looks awful.
In Canada 'medical research' is an option (Score:2)
Who do I contact? (Score:2)
You are all making jokes, but I'd be happy to donate my brain if it would provide even a little data. I'm not planning on dying soon, but if I do I'm really not going to need the brain anymore. So why let it go to waste?
I'd imagine it's important to set these things up before hand. To get any meaningful data, they're going to need to know a lot about my medical history, drug use, and who knows what else. They'll also want to be notified quickly after death, there are a lot of changes that take place in
Harvard takes brains ... (Score:2)
But I'm not dead yet (Score:2)
While I am all for organ donation and digging into defective brains.
I am completely against medical therapies which prematurely terminate the life of an individual
While I am completely aware that there is a medical case for declaring an individual as "dead".
So long as the individual's brain is intact and can be preserved, using technologies known to Alcor and/or other preservation organizations -- one is not "dead" -- i.e. the physicians pronouncement in the ER is WRONG.
I realize that I am promising potenti
donating is complex (Score:3, Insightful)
For those of us willing to have our former bodies used for any good purpose, the existing system is frustrating because there is no coordination among multiple uses. Your body can be put to three different uses after death: (a) organ donation; (b) medical research; (c) medical training. Organ donation and medical research are in principle compatible - whatever organs aren't need for transplantation are available for research. However, neither of these uses is compatible with medical training: medical schools want the whole body for use in anatomy classes, not whatever is left after bits have been removed for transplantation or research. Furthermore, at least here in British Columbia, and as far as I know, everywhere else, there are three separate systems for the three uses. What I would prefer is to be able to sign up in one place to donate my body for whatever is the best use at the time. If an organ is critically needed, give it to someone, and use the remainder for research. If no organs are needed for transplantation, use it for research or anatomy class, wherever the need is greater.
Re:Take Mine (Score:5, Funny)
I'm told I have shit for brains, so I'm donating mine to local gardening enthusiasts.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm donating all my organs, but with a proviso that they use at least 70% and all to one recipient...
That way it's less of an organ donation, and more a hostile takeover...
Re:Take Mine (Score:4, Informative)
While I'm sure there are some surprising uses for corpses, I can assure you testing fire suits is not one of them.
They are tested using sophisticated bipedal structures of gelatin and/or elastopolymers that resemble the human body in rigidity and thermal decomposition properties. Those mannequins have hundreds or thousands of pressure and temperature sensors over them to determine how much protection fabrics can provide and where they are ineffective.
Re:Doctors, Researchers, Get Your Brains, Quick! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Well, If they can keep it alive outside your body, all the better it allow them in the future to put you in a robotic body with lasers and guns and you only malfunction when you start seeing your family.
Re: (Score:2)
If consciousness is an emergent property of a neural network, then would activating a small network bring some small fraction of consciousness to a brain?
"It's starting to roll."
"Shit!"
"Bring in the L.E.D. Lock it down."
"He's on."
"What's the story?"
"We saved the left arm."
"What? We agreed on total body prosthesis. Now lose the arm."
"Jesus, Morton."
"Can he understand?"
"We'll blank his memory, anyway."
"We should lose the arm. What do you think?"
"He signed a release when he joined the force. And he's dead. We can do pretty much what we want."
"Lose the arm."
"Shut him down. Prep him for surgery."
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The Chinese execute most prisoners by a single rifle bullet to the back of the head. The brain would therefore be useless.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm sure they could make an exception, like shooting at the gut. Sure, it's more painful and a slow way to die but if money is to be made then they should just suck it up for the greatness of their country.
Re: (Score:2)
Apparently they're just used by medical students for scalpel practise.
Alot (possibly the majority) of them are, however, would you rather a surgeon who's never practiced working on you while you're alive?
Take your FUD elsewhere.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
If it goes to a foundation for the study of the long term effects of marijuana.
You don't need brains for that study, an afternoon stroll through Berkeley would give you all the data you need.