Sarcasm Useful For Detecting Dementia 389
An anonymous reader writes "Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but Australian scientists are using it to diagnose dementia, according to a new study. Researchers at the University of New South Wales, found that patients under the age of 65 suffering from frontotemporal dementia (FTD), the second most common form of dementia, cannot detect when someone is being sarcastic."
This will end badly... (Score:5, Funny)
Studies also found that old people who do not have dementia are likely to whack you with their canes for sassing them.
Doctor: "Oh, yeaaaa, you're normal"
Patient: "Why you little whippernapper! *WHACK* *WHACK*"
Doctor: "No! Ow! No! It was a medical test!
Patient: "I lived through 15 wars and 5 depressions, and I'm not going to let some damn young quack backtalk me in the name of science!" *WHACK* *WHACK*
Re:This will end badly... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I wonder if this is exactly why the behavior of being a smart-ass has evolved in children. We need some way for young people to be able to know if an elder is mentally competent enough. If someone with dementia can't detect sarcasm, it stands to reason that by being a smart-ass, you can tell if they're still capable of making leadership decisions. If they are, then they'll smack you, if not, you put them out on an ice floe.
Re:This will end badly... (Score:5, Funny)
And I thought I was just an ass, turns out I'm a dementia detecting savant.
Re:This will end badly... (Score:5, Interesting)
that reminds of the summer i spent at a Buddhist temple/monastery in Taiwan. i was in junior high or just entering high school, i think, and I went there with a couple other Asian-American teenagers as part of a Buddhist/animal rights summer camp program that our parents enrolled us in.
despite being pulled out of bed at 4 in the morning, not being able to eat meat, being made to do farm work (the monks grew most of their own food), and having to recite stupid mantras [wikipedia.org] every morning, and even being locked in a urine-soaked livestock trailer in the baking sun for half an hour (yes, i'm serious.), it was a really interesting experience.
but one of the more unexpected things to happen was learning that Taiwanese people aren't familiar with sarcasm. while we were socializing with a few of the younger monks (their ages ranged from mid-teens to early-20's) one of the American teenagers responded to a question from one of the monks with a sarcastic reply. and while it was pretty obvious to all of us Americans that he was being facetious, the monks were rather perplexed. we tried to explain it to them, but the culture gap was too big. to them there was no difference between being sarcastic and lying.
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We need some way for young people to be able to know if an elder is mentally competent enough.
I'd suggest that sarcasm would be one of the tools youngsters would use to gauge leadership mettle, as opposed to the only one.
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Or maybe it works spot on and we all really are crazy. Wait, maybe it's happening now! Was your post supposed to be sarcastic?!?! am I reading it right!! Maybe I have Dementia. Maybe you planed this ahead of time! Your out to get me I know it, YOU'RE ALL OUT TO GET ME...Wait, thats just paranoia, whew, I was worried there.
sarcasm is cultural.... (Score:4, Informative)
sarcasm is cultural.... I grew up in Jamaica, after moving to the US I had a very hard time understanding sarcasm which is very common here. In my experience growing up in Jamaica sarcasm wasn't common at all.
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People really eat this shit up, don't they? Not a god damned thing was funny about this, but it still got the mandatory +5 Funny like too many other lame unoriginal jokes.
Talking about the moderation is sooooo insightful.
If you can read and understand this, you don't need glasses^Wa fix for dementia.
Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Interesting)
In certain Ethiopic languages, sarcasm is indicated with a sarcasm mark, a character that looks like a backwards question mark at the end of a sentence, similar to Alcanter de Brahm's proposed irony mark ().
So did the fledgeling movement of Slashdotters who proposed using the tilde ~ as the sarcasm mark beat them to it?
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
~yeah, ~as ~if ~that ~would ~work().
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This --> () was actually an upside-down question mark encased in parenthesis(which weren't part of the symbol) and it didn't translate from copy and paste. The proposed use of the tilde would follow a line like the [/sarcasm] tag.
I see what you did there, smartass
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
Your smiley has a goatee.
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:4, Funny)
Or drool...
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~yeah, ~as ~if ~that ~would ~work
Given that Mentor Graphic's Design Capture schematic utility (at least) uses tilde to indicate NOT (so that a bar appears over the letters indicated), your use here seems quite appropriate to me. Tildes before a letter only invert that letter, though; to do the entire word it must be at the end.
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
Sarcasm has no place on the internet. period.
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
Unfortunately it can also be a problem in real-life, generally when I'm being sarcastic I sound and act exactly as if I wasn't, combine this with my quirky personalty and it gets interesting.
(while in a job interview)
Interviewer: so what kind of hobbies do you have, apart from coding?
Me: Well, rock climbing, some music production, necrophelia and subtle dark humor.
I wanted to convey that he's just trying to make small-talk to cover up the fact that he's already decided they weren't going to employ me, instead his face twitched for a second and his mouth opened and you could see his brain clicking away trying to digest what I'd just said.
Um yah, getting back ontopic you can be sarcastic on the internet if people know you well, we all understand subtle humour & emotions while reading what other people write, but for complete strangers that's pretty much impossible.
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to cover up the fact that he's already decided they weren't going to employ me
Whether or not that's true, your comment certainly would have cemented him into that position. Self-fulfilling prophecy indeed.
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More-then likely you shot yourself in the foot. I have interviewed many people and when I don't want to hire someone i try to end the interview fast with the least amount of questions. The small talk, as others have noted, was p
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Everybody knows that sarcasm contains no iron.
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
It does if it's ferocious enough.
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:4, Informative)
I have a friend who said once that you can give sexual meaning to any statement as long as you end it with "if you know what I mean". Something like:
Now I will recompile my kernel, if you know what I mean.
Maybe people could use a sentence like that to imply sarcasm... maybe 'Obviously'.
...if you know what I mean.
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"that's what she said?"
Hmm I guess I'm starting to get it.. ;)
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Say no more sir!
Wink wink nudge nudge.
Ah is your wife a goer?
Re:Sarcasm mark (Score:5, Funny)
I have a friend who said once that you can give sexual meaning to any statement as long as you end it with "if you know what I mean".
Ironically, the same results can be achieved by ending statements with 'would you have sex with me.'
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...if you know what I mean.
We always know what you mean.
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Sarcasm is mostly down to the tone of voice, which is why the /sarcasm tag is sometimes necessary. That is, unless you are able to word what you are saying to be as unambiguously sarcastic as possible. "That's a workable solution /sarcasm" contrasted with "Yeah. Right. That's gonna work". Get it wrong on Slashdot and you get modded down. ;)
Speaking of the tone of voice, I have a naturally-sarcastic tone of voice. This makes it sometimes tricky for others to tell whether I'm kidding or not. I remember talkin
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The tilde is a good choice in English; in logic the tilde is a common symbol for negation [wikipedia.org], and since sarcasm is basically negation, that makes sense.
Likewise the upside down question mark (whose proper name is "signo de apertura de interrogacion invertido" which, yes, means "Upside down question mark" in Spanish) would be a poor choice in Spanish, since it's already used to indicate the beginning of a question.
Basically, what I'm getting at is that the mark will just end up being another idiom to confuse pe
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the upside down question mark (whose proper name is "signo de apertura de interrogacion invertido" which, yes, means "Upside down question mark" in Spanish) would be a poor choice in Spanish, since it's already used to indicate the beginning of a question
The sarcasm mark is a backwards question mark, not upside down.
Obligatory (Score:3, Funny)
<sarcasm>Really?</sarcasm>
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Re:Obligatory (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder if whoever called sarcasm the lowest form of wit was demented.
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I don't get it????
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This just in... (Score:5, Funny)
...90% of the internet is demented.
They recognize it (Score:2)
But they call it "irony"
Re:They recognize it (Score:5, Funny)
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Irony. It's like goldy or bronzy, only it's made of iron.
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Fortunately Slashdot is in the other badger.
Ooo.. nice. (Score:5, Funny)
What a great idea.
If you're wondering if you've got dementia, and you thought this comment was sarcastic, then you have because it wasn't.
If you're not wondering if you've got dementia, then you have too because it totally was sarcastic.
Or maybe it's me who has dementia. I don't know if I'm being sarcastic. Oh dear.
Does this mean the Internet is a dementia sim? (Score:5, Insightful)
Since sarcasm is notoriously difficult to convey online, does this mean the Internet is a dementia simulator? Actually, that would explain a lot of things...
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such as... (Score:2)
Don't worry, you're not senile, everyone forgets to zip down sometimes...
What do they call it when... (Score:2, Insightful)
Slashdot (Score:2)
Wow. I never knew there were so many [slashdot.org] demented [slashdot.org] people [slashdot.org] on Slashdot.
House (Score:3, Funny)
Kids in The Hall (Score:2)
No, seriously, I really do have this medical problem that really does make me have to sound like I'm being sarcastic all the time. I really mean what I'm saying. I'm really not trying to sound like this.
Or something like that. I gotta youtube that later.
Apparently. . . (Score:2)
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Unfortunately, I already do that. Without trying.
At all.
This is not sarcastic.
Alternate title (Score:5, Funny)
Dang... (Score:2)
Sarcasm is a Scourge (Score:2)
I am tired of people trying to appear insightful by
stating an obvious irony in a sneering and sometimes exaggerated way,
but this research will be of immediate use to all of humanity.
So I say God's speed to those brave Australian scientists and their noble cause.
The world salutes you!
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I am tired of people trying to appear insightful by stating an obvious irony in a sneering and sometimes exaggerated way
I bet you're fun at parties.
Re:Sarcasm is a Scourge (Score:5, Funny)
I bet you're fun at parties.
Ha! Dementia detected.
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I know younger people (Score:2, Interesting)
One of our favorite pastimes is going over to his dorm and saying all the sarcastic things we can think of and watching him freak out. Good god, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Yeah, sarcasm works wonders with native Japanese. ^_^
(eyeroll)Really?(eyeroll) (Score:2)
Do tell, bright light.
Sarcasm Lowest Form? (Score:2, Informative)
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*Some* sarcasm will make use of wordplay, but typically sarcasm is saying the opposite of what you mean, in a manner that conveys to the listener that you do not mean what you are saying.
The best sarcasm, IMO, is dry sarcasm, where you do not tip off the listener... they need to be actually listening and involved in a conversation in order to get the 'joke'. I often use very dry sarcasm to determine if my partner in the conversation (or my student, if I am teaching) is activel
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**Whoosh!**
He was saying (and I fully agree) that puns are a lower (much, IMO) form of humor than sarcasm.
Actually, what many people refer to as sarcasm is really irony or satire. Sarcasm implies scorn or contempt. It does not imply "saying the opposite of what you mean". That's a particular form of irony. It may be sarcasm if the intent is to wound or disparage, but if it's simply done in good humor, then it's not sarcasm at all.
Dry irony is actually one of my favorite forms of wit, although I tend to
A good idea for early detection of mental illness (Score:5, Interesting)
"Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit, but Australian scientists are using it to diagnose dementia, according to a new study. Researchers at the University of New South Wales, found that patients under the age of 65 suffering from frontotemporal dementia (FTD), the second most common form of dementia, cannot detect when someone is being sarcastic."
I have suffered from Paranoid Schizophrenia since the age of 15. I'm 33 now, and I can say from my own personal experience that this is very true.
One of the many reasons I have trouble 'fitting in', especially at social gatherings, is my inability to detect sarcasm. It can be terrifying when someone says something that could be interpreted 'literally' as demeaning or cruel but is only 'joking around' etc.
I'm better now than I was, but usually only after getting to know a person well. Surprisingly however, even people I've known for 5+ years can still be sarcastic occasionally and it will go right over my head. They know about my illness however, and on occasions like those do me the favor of pointing out they were just being sarcastic, which helps.
I think the approach in the article could be a great diagnostic tool for early detection of these types of mental illness...I suffered from schizophrenia without knowing I had it for almost 10 years. My life fell to pieces; that and my family and friends (the few I had left) finally convinced me I had a problem. I was the last to know I had schizophrenia...and it has been very very difficult coming to terms with it.
Maybe if it was detected earlier I could have been treated earlier, and the damage to my life and my state of mind might have been mitigated considerably. I don't know.
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I'm also curious, how do you detect sarcasm in writing, if it's not specially marked, as one of the
That was uncalled for... (Score:2)
GP> those do me the favor of pointing out they were just being sarcastic
Parent is just being sarcastic. I think you've heard what parent said plenty of times, and hopefully you've learned that it's a joke.
But if not, just to avoid you worrying: they're not out to get you. Parent is sarcastic.
[My conscience said someone had to say it. You can all move along now]
In related news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In related news... (Score:4, Funny)
It's not lupus.
Ignoring Sarcasm Useful For Ending It (Score:2)
Can you detect when people are purposefully ignoring it? The quickest way to get people to stop being sarcastic is to take them literally.
Comic Book Guy would approve... (Score:2, Funny)
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They might have dementia... (Score:2)
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Nice of you to jump to the conclusion that a psychiatrist only uses a single factor in testing for a mental illness. 'Cause the DSM IV is just FULL of illness that only have a single symptom which is NEVER a sign of another illness.
I propose... (Score:5, Insightful)
Speak as a Masshole (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Speak as a Masshole (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Speak as a Masshole (Score:5, Interesting)
I found that after a few days in the south I started talking with a drawl. Strangers became much friendlier to me.
Did you read the article? (Score:2)
All the way to the last sentence?
Or was that sarcasm?
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Nah, that couldn't possibly be true.
if you doubt your sanity (Score:2)
you are most probably sane
if you are certain of your sanity, you very well coudl be insane
sarcasm is an outward expression of doubting that which is said with certainty
and so in the end the act of doubting yourself is the only grasp any of us have on our sanity
long live sarcasm
Not just for dementia (Score:4, Interesting)
From my own experience I have noticed that people
in the very start of a psykosis episode also suffers from not beeing able to understand sarcasm.
This is before they show any real signs of the mental illness.
I lived together with a woman many years that had this kind of problems and I used sarcasm to check her up so to speak. It never failed to indicate when she was about to have a new episode and to be prepared to help her out.
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goodluckwiththat (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks!
It's official, I'm demented. (Score:2)
I'm terrible at dealing with sarcasm. At work, I'm very straight forward, and all but the most extreme bits of sarcasm are usually lost on me. I'll take what you say at face value and work from there.
It's worked out well for me, but maybe I'm just being demented.
Lowest Form of Wit (Score:3, Interesting)
Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit...
Never, never begin a submission with a clever aside. You're absolutely begging to be contradicted!
Here's the kind of wit that's lowest in my esteem, in rough order of lowness. Oddly enough, they're all popular on Slashdot!
Re:Lowest Form of Wit (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't wait for the comments... (Score:2)
EMT technique? (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't know if this is common or not, but an EMT seemed to use this once to tell if I was going to pass out. I had broken my upper arm and at some point I guess I was looking whiter than usual (according to my friends). After putting the arm in a sling the EMT looked at me very seriously and said something like "What's the problem? You're a big guy. What's the big deal?" I was confused for a moment, then I realized he was being sarcastic and I laughed. When I did, he smiled, patted me on the (other) shoulder and announced "Yeah, he's okay. He'll be fine."
I thought that was a pretty good way to tell how out of it I was. Of course some people don't get sarcasm at all, so it might not work all the time.
Asperger's connection...? (Score:4, Interesting)
From TFA:
That sounds almost like a textbook description of Asperger's Syndrome. Hmmmm....
20/20..... (Score:3, Funny)
"Researchers at the University of New South Wales, in Sydney, found that patients under the age of 65 suffering from frontotemporal dementia (FTD), the second most common form of dementia, cannot detect when someone is being sarcastic."
-I guess this means that most cops are suffering from dementia.
This handy dandy little piece of information would have been helpful to know a while ago, especially before I told that Highway Patrolwomen she could put me in handcuffs anytime she wanted to.
Is This For Real? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or are you just pulling my leg?
Anyway, people with dementia also serve to fill in the missing pieces by making things up ("confabulation" is the unnecessarily obtuse term for it), frequently accusing people of saying or doing things against them when in fact they had no such intention. Thus, people with dementia should also often mistake plain statements for sarcasm.
Humor, now, that one would be hard to mistake. You may not think it's funny, but you get it or you don't. No mistaking it being personally directed. Much better diagnostic IMO.
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New research suggests that the highest functions of our brains handle the lowest form of wit.
The research has found that the ability to understand sarcasm depends on a carefully orchestrated sequence of complex cognitive skills in specific parts of the brain.
Sarcasm is related to our ability to understand other people's mental state and is not just a linguistic form, it is related to social cognition.
The research revealed that areas of the brain that decipher sarcasm and irony also process language, recogni
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Dementia is a condition where the brain function degrades until it's not functioning anymore. Having a non-functional brain to start with is another condition. In literature this is often referred to as zombie-ism.
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