Large Hadron Collider Goes Live September 10th 409
Naznarreb writes "CERN announced today that the first attempt to circulate a beam through the Large Hadron Collider will be on September 10th, 2008. You can read the press release here. They also announced the event will be webcast live. According to the release, they're just planning to run a few tests laps, not smash any particles, so the world won't be ending quite yet." And despite that September 10th date, according to the BBC, "On 9 August, protons will be piped through LHC magnets for the first time."
September 10th? (Score:5, Funny)
And will take 1 day to warm up right?
Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Informative)
No. Cool down. The reason that everyone has been waiting for the last couple of months is for the system to cool to less than 2 K. That is what is limiting the operation of the complete LHC.
Re:September 10th? (Score:4, Funny)
Less than 2K what? Two thousand Centigrade? Fahrenheit? Damn n00bs and their lack of units, don't you realize that's the kind of mistake that swallows worlds in a fit of microblackholish pique???
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Less than 2K what? Two thousand Centigrade? Fahrenheit? Damn n00bs and their lack of units, don't you realize that's the kind of mistake that swallows worlds in a fit of microblackholish pique???
2 K is 2 Kelvin, not 2 thousand. The "damn n00b" was using the proper standard scientific units for temperature.
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Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Informative)
"Two degrees Kelvin" is actually improper terminology. Kelvin does not use the degree simple. You simply say "Two Kelvin."
On another hope, I really hope you weren't joking with that. If so, then I just got whooshed!
Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, to be even more anal, the plural form "kelvins" should only be used to indicate temperature intervals (differences between temperatures); when indicating specific temperatures, the singular form is used. Take a gander at this section of the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] for examples.
And remember, there's always a bigger pedant out there somewhere. :-)
Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Funny)
And remember, there's always a bigger pedant out there somewhere. :-)
Great, now I'm gonna have nightmares about pedant bear.
Re:September 10th? (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, if it had the degree symbol between the 2 and the K.
He didn't put the degree symbol between the 2 and the K because it isn't "2 degrees kelvin" it's "2 kelvin", like "2 kilograms" or "2 meters"
Was Brooke Shields a scientist? (Score:3, Funny)
"Want to know what gets between me and my Kelvins? Nothing"
(I guess you will need to be an old fart like me to get that. Sorry.)
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It's cold. DAMN cold! How cold? Ask the guy with the frozen thumb!
Yep, well the last time I caught someone installing a key logger his thumb wouldn't fit in the coffee afterwards. And I remember one winter in Montana where it was so cold it went quiet -- everybody's words froze as they left the mouth.You never heard such a ruckus at spring thaw, though.
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"For those in the US, two degrees kelvin is roughly a bazillgian degrees below zero."
Its actually about 456 degrees below 0 F
Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Funny)
>Such as yourself?
I slept through middle school, high school, undergrad chemistry and physics, slept through my masters, and am sleeping on the job at my university environmental research gig.
Any questions?
Re:September 10th? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, how can I be more like you?
Re:September 10th? (Score:4, Funny)
Get your affairs in order, people (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Informative)
Even if it somehow does, they will very likely dissipate in fractions of a second.
Even if they doe form, and are stable, they will be so small so as to sink to the center of the earth and star devouring it at the alarming pace of 1 atom a year.
For frame of reference you have about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in your body.
So it would take billions of lifetimes (or more) for you to even notice the effects if one were stuck in you.
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Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
For frame of reference you have about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in your body.
If I am mostly carbon, that'd make me around 300lbs. Are you assuming I am American?
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Informative)
If I am mostly carbon, (...)
You're not. [wikipedia.org]
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H-C---C-H
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They also announced the event will be webcast live.
Just in case they doom-sayers are right, we can at least watch it live. Gots to love the webcasting.
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Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:4, Funny)
Yes (Score:2)
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Um, if the entire planet is zortched out of existence, people won't really have to *worry* about having their affairs in order, will they?
The real question is, if one is created, will there be enough time for anyone to report it, or will the black hole swallow things almost instantly or will it grow faster than the information can travel?
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:4, Funny)
Screw the towel. Where's my crowbar?
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
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Well, if one is created (impossible at these energies according to the Standard Model), it would be destroyed almost immediately due to Hawking radiation.
Even if it did survive, it would be incredibly small (about a Planck length, or 10E-20 times the size of a proton) and would take a long while to collect enough mater to start growing rapidly.
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry to self-reply, but even once it got going, it wouldn't destroy us immediately. A black hole with the mass of the Earth still only has Schwarzschild radius of 1.5cm.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/blkhol.html [gsu.edu]
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, thank heavens... So beach front property in Geneva is still a good investment then...?
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
That makes me feel much better. Although, how did a micro-blackhole on Earth end up with the mass of Earth...?
<panic mode on>
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Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Interesting)
A black hole with the mass of the Earth has, at one Earth-radius, a gravitational attraction of 1g. (In other words, if you were on the far side of the moon, and the Earth suddenly turned into a black hole, you wouldn't notice.) Closer, it would be much higher. Half an earth radius from the black hole it'd be 4g, a quarter of an earth radius it'd be 8g, etc --- one kilometre away it'd be 4 million g, and one metre away it'd be 3x10^14 g. That's gonna hurt.
So if somehow you were to magically create the 5x10^41 Joules of energy necessary to create a black hole the size of the Earth, on the Earth, I suspect we'd probably know immediately, subject to light speed limits, as the direction of down shifts abruptly followed a few seconds later by the disintegration of the planet and collapse into a accretion disc of white hot plasma. That is, those parts of the Earth that are not blasted outwards by the collapse event, which is what astrophysicists would call 'violent'.
(Of course, *now* I realise that you were actually originally talking about the end result after the consumption of the earth by a tiny black hole, but I've done all the maths now, dammit. So I'm going to post anyway. Besides, once the tiny black hole reaches about .1 earth mass it's still going to be pretty spectacular.)
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I see your Swhwarzschild is as big as mine.
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
it would be destroyed almost immediately due to Hawking radiation.
Awesome. I always knew Stephen Hawking was a badass, but now I find out he's a superhero with the power to destroy black holes!
I can see it now: thousands of people panic through the streets, while Stephen Hawking slowly wheels himself into a phone booth, only to fly out a second later and fly to the black hole, destroying it instantly with his Hawking radiation eye-beams! That's going to be sooo cool!
I must admit, his disguise is ingenious. I never suspected he was anything other than a mild-mannered physicist.
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah. He looks totally different without his glasses. You can't even recognize him.
That doesn't make any sense! He wouldn't be able to see.
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
I can see it now: thousands of people panic through the streets, while Stephen Hawking slowly wheels himself into a phone booth, only to fly out a second later and fly to the black hole, destroying it instantly with his Hawking radiation eye-beams! That's going to be sooo cool!
The image is funnier to me if he never gets out of his wheelchair. He slowly wheels up, has his machine say "Take this, you bastard", and then the Hawking Radiation spews forth!
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Interesting)
Honest question about Hawking Radiation - how do we know it really exists? As far as I know we've never directly observed a black hole and we've certainly never created one in the lab, so where is the experimental evidence to support it? Shouldn't you say that we THINK Hawking Radiation would destroy said black hole?
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A microsingularity can be considered a point mass, but it doesn't change the fundamentals of gravity - a microscopic mass has microscopic gravitational effects. What would presumably happen is that it would fall rapidly like in free fall towards the core due to earth's gravity, absorbing the mass it's falling through in an exponential growth. And certainly it wouldn't accelerate earth's mass to anything near lightspeed (the speed of information in an optical cable). Only a completely wild guess I'd say more
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Only a completely wild guess I'd say more than a minute and less than an hour.I
So probably not enough time to find the nearest woman and convince her you're a virgin and don't want to die that way. Unless it's closer to an hour, in which case I could probably pull that trick on two or three women.
Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
So probably not enough time to find the nearest woman and convince her you're a virgin
I'm sure you won't have to do much convincing.
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Why eat one proton? Since they're smashing protons, wouldn't the blackhole already have a positive electric charge?
Stop growing at that point is clear enough for me: it has still only the gravitational pull of a few proton masses, hardly enough to be significant at these scales. Electromagnetism rules them big time.
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Re:Get your affairs in order, people (Score:5, Funny)
Easier to ask forgiveness that permission. Especially easy if there's no one left to ask forgiveness of.
Aaaahhhhhhh !! (Score:5, Funny)
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If it disrupts time itself, perhaps it will have already happened by now. :-D
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No it's not. The Corsairs saying it is (very likely) in reference to the Warcraft II cheat code. Which, I'm guessing, is a reference to something else.
Obligatory LHC (Score:5, Informative)
The other LHC [largehardoncollider.com]
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+1 Informative?...lol...shit...
How about Les Horrible Cernettes [web.cern.ch]
(note the "Welcome To Adobe GoLive 6" Header, can't beat quality like that)
Day after tomorrow? (Score:2)
Well the day after my birthday actually. So my pressie from the scientists at CERN is going to be the end of the world. A day late. Ain't life grand!
Its actually a plot... (Score:2)
They start smashing particles the next day (Score:3, Interesting)
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Yep... Bin Laden is about to be upstaged by a supercollider. The whole war on terror to avenge the destruction of the a few buildings in NYC will seem moot after a couple of european scientists accidentally suck the entire state into a black hole.
Re:They start smashing particles the next day (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe we've finally figured out why we haven't had any luck with SETI yet? Perhaps any civilization advanced enough to begin broadcasting in the radio spectrum will, within 100 years, start running scientific experiments that are sufficiently dangerous to cause the extinction of the species? Is that possible?
On second thought... that's a silly theory, never mind! I'm going to go back to my very important medical experiments. It's pretty cool stuff, actually. I'm using virus-borne DNA to reanimate dead cells to help critically ill people. I think I'm on the verge of a breakthrough but they're going to cut off my funding if I don't get any results soon! Maybe I'll have to take a few shortcuts... use highly unstable, mutation-prone RNA instead of DNA... maybe skip straight to the human testing phase using this cadaver I have lying around my lab...
Anyhow, have a good day everybody!
Oops (Score:4, Funny)
Dr. Dieter Kriegstien: "Acceleratz protonz to maximumn speedz. Dr. Smitz, please pushz zat big ved button."
Dr. Keron Smith: "Pushing big button... you meant the blue one didn't you Dr. Kriegstien?"
Dr. Dieter: "Insolenze...vait... vat iz dat veading on zee scopz? Hmm.. it lookz like a microsopikz vack ol..."
And at this point, the entire mass of the Earth is sucked into a minature black hole the size of a pinhead over a period of 2 microseconds.
Of course, in reality, this is as likely as me winning a superball jackpot lottery, 10'000 timse in a row. But I just CAN'T HELP MYSELF!
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The End is Nigh (Score:2, Funny)
Ok. Sept 10 plus one day to warm up. Sheeze couldn't they have picked another date for the end of the world?
Ok, in the Naked Science episode which featured the Large Hadron gizmo they said that some people are concerned that "the micro black holes they create could consume an *entire* city..." then they paused for a short while and added "... and the entire earth!". Love that pause.
Other than that I got nothing.
Cern - (Score:4, Funny)
All yer antimatter is belong to us - Cern
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OB Futurama (Score:5, Funny)
FARNSWORTH: So what are you doing to protect my constitutional right to bear doomsday devices?
N.R.A. MAN: Well, first off, we're gonna get rid of that three-day waiting period for mad scientists.
FARNSWORTH: Damn straight! Today, the mad scientist can't get a doomsday device, tomorrow it's the mad grad student. Where will it end?
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Push the button, Dr. Freeman (Score:5, Funny)
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I'll actually be at some company called Aperture Science that week doing some volunteer tests, so I should be nice and safe there. They supposedly even have cake.
Why worry? (Score:2)
Anyone else getting this error from that link? (Score:5, Funny)
HTTP 599
Service Permanently Unavailable
The server you are trying to contact has crossed the event horizon of a black hole.
Re:Anyone else getting this error from that link? (Score:4, Funny)
HTTP 599
Service Permanently Unavailable
The server you are trying to contact has crossed the event horizon of a black hole.
You left out:
"if this problem persists, please contact your Systems Administrator"
Re:Anyone else getting this error from that link? (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be HTTP 410.
"The 410 (Gone) status code SHOULD be used if the server knows, through some internally configurable mechanism, that an old resource is permanently unavailable and has no forwarding address." (RFC 2616)
There's no excuse for such incorrect implementation of standard protocols, even if the catastrophic destruction of the earth is involved.
Uhm, the title makes me giggle... sorry... (Score:2, Redundant)
Sorry, I keep seeing:
Large Hard-on Collider Goes Live September
It's really sad that my sense of humor has not progressed since junior high school. *sigh*
Aug 9 vs. Sep10 (Score:2)
Crowbar already sent to CERN (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.destructoid.com/reddit-sends-crowbar-to-scientists-to-protect-against-headcrabs-98281.phtml [destructoid.com]
Out of this world. (Score:2, Funny)
Advice to the scientists: When you first get back up after the explosion, make sure to stay away from the lip of the pit one screen to your left.
Top 10 Ways to DESTROY the Earth!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Sucked into a microscopic black hole
You will need: a microscopic black hole. Note that black holes are not eternal, they evaporate due to Hawking radiation. For your average black hole this takes an unimaginable amount of time, but for really small ones it could happen almost instantaneously, as evaporation time is dependent on mass. Therefore you microscopic black hole must have greater than a certain threshold mass, roughly equal to the mass of Mount Everest. Creating a microscopic black hole is tricky, since one needs a reasonable amount of neutronium, but may possibly be achievable by jamming large numbers of atomic nuclei together until they stick. This is left as an exercise to the reader. [I love that part].
Method: simply place your black hole on the surface of the Earth and wait. Black holes are of such high density that they pass through ordinary matter like a stone through the air. [Yeah, so then how will I place it *on* the Earth. Lousy instructions.] The black hole will plummet through the ground, eating its way to the center of the Earth and all the way through to the other side: then, it'll oscillate back, over and over like a matter-absorbing pendulum. Eventually it will come to rest at the core, having absorbed enough matter to slow it down. Then you just need to wait, while it sits and consumes matter until the whole Earth is gone.
Highly, highly unlikely. But not impossible.
Earth's final resting place: a singularity of almost zero size, which will then proceed to happily orbit the Sun as normal.
Source: "The Dark Side Of The Sun," by Terry Pratchett. It is true that the microscopic black hole idea is an age-old science fiction mainstay which predates Pratchett by a long time, he was my original source for the idea, so that's what I'm putting.
Re:Top 10 Ways to DESTROY the Earth!!! (Score:4, Informative)
You don't know much about physics, do you? Gravitation acting alone would indeed cause it to oscillate forever. Think of it in terms of conservation of energy: potential energy varies with height, and since total energy must be conserved, every time the velocity is reduced to zero the height has to be the same.
The only factor that will reduce its energy is when it physically impacts other particles, resulting in a net gain of mass and a conservation of momentum (velocity decreases proportionally). Since it would be microscopic in size, it wouldn't hit much matter anyway so the deceleration would be slow... it also wouldn't cause much damage because it wouldn't consume much matter for the same reason.
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You, like most other people, just dont understand how fucking small the schwarzshild radius of such a black hole would be.
If all the energy of both particles gets converted into mass, and all the matter end up in a tiny black hole, this will have an energy of 5TeV max, which is less than 10^-22 kg.
Now the schwarzschild radius is 2*m*G/c^2.
This results in about 10^-50m, about a billion trillion times less than the planck lenght (which already tells us that this aint you normal black hole anymore).
Even if it
My 2 cents (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My 2 cents (Score:5, Funny)
Ok, seriously... enough with the Sept. 11 crap (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I'll probably get modded troll or something for this, but it needs saying.
There's many comments in here about "oh, what about Sept. 11... couldn't they pick a better day?" and the like.
NEWS FLASH: The rest of the world does NOT come to a screeching halt every Sept. 11th. All points of business are NOT put on hold on that one day of the year. The rest of the world has moved on, if they even stopped to begin with. GET OVER IT!
LHC isn't even located in the USA for christ sakes.
Yes, the Sept. 11 events were sad, but seriously... stop criticizing all events taking place somewhere on earth on or around that date.
Re:Ok, seriously... enough with the Sept. 11 crap (Score:5, Funny)
Are you saying that 9-11 didn't change everything?
Because 9-11 changed everything.
Re:Ok, seriously... enough with the Sept. 11 crap (Score:5, Funny)
"The rest of the world does NOT come to a screeching halt every Sept. 11th."
The rest of the world is still scratching it's head trying to figure out what significant event happened on the 9th of November.
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The rest of the world is still scratching it's head trying to figure out what significant event happened on the 9th of November.
I was born.
Seeing it on the ISS (Score:5, Interesting)
Could you imagine what it would be like to be on the ISS when the earth is destroyed by a LHC mbh.
The earth would fold up, only a 1% consumption would be needed to make it impossible to land on the earth and survive, but if the earth all went in a few hours or less. wow. And with the angular momemtum of the earth, the mbh would have to rotate on the earth's axis and the mbh would send its radiation beams away from the iss so the iss could be survivable from that prospective. Also, the aero drag would be gone and so orbital reboost would not be needed. I wonder how long they could survive? Also, since the mass of the earth/mbh doesn't change, all those nasty time-drag effects won't happen at the orbital distance of the iss.
It would make a nice sci-fi short story noir if a multi-year survival could be speculated.
Regards.
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Sorry, FTS they're only running a few "test laps" - Not actually smashing anything. Get to work.
TFA doesn't say when they actually plan on destroying earth.
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Although it does say:
Once stable circulating beams have been established, they will be brought into collision, and the final step will be to commission the LHCâ(TM)s acceleration system to boost the energy to 5 TeV, taking particle physics research to a new frontier.
So I guess they're not waiting long after the "test laps" mentioned in the summary. OK. Blow off your project.
Re:Timeline rewriting to begin shortly thereafter. (Score:5, Funny)
Unless, of course, we're finally in the timeline where the LHC never quite works.
OR the timeline where you're the only non-cloned human left alive, surrounded by clones of your ex-girlfriend. Then you'll wish you didn't get on her bad side right before 'the accident'.
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OR the timeline where you're standing on the beach with one girl you never quite dared to ask out, watching bloody chunks of the 500-mile-tall version of the other girl you never quite dared to ask out fall back to earth, and everyone else has been dissolved into a global ocean of yellow goo.
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Yeees.. His predictions always seem to come true.
Assuming you count people interpreting them to fit past events as coming true. I can't remember a single instance of someone interpreting Nostradamus as predicting something *before* it actually happens, and in fact having just that happen.
Re:Time to go on my spending spree (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Notify the IEDAB (Score:5, Funny)
what wories me most. (Score:3, Funny)
...is that you can't spell, and you're talking about antimatter and hydrogen bombs.