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NASA Space Idle Technology

NASA Contractor Needs Urine 291

Apparently, NASA sent a memo to its employees at the Johnson Space Center asking for their urine so they, NASA, could use it to test the Orion space capsule. How much urine? 30 liters per day, including weekends. Disposal of urine for up to six months would be required if Orion is to work as planned.

Alert reader nettamere adds a link to story at Discovery.com, excerpting: "Donations will be treated with a chemical that can hold solid particulates in the liquid so they don't clog up the tubing in microgravity, said Leo Makowski, company spokesman for Hamilton Sundstrand, a contractor designing the new spaceship's toilet. ... "It's difficult to come up with a faux urine, explained NASA's Jim Lewis, the systems manager overseeing development of Orion's potty. 'That's why we depend on collections.'"

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NASA Needs Urine

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  • Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)

    by onion2k ( 203094 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:33PM (#24217971) Homepage

    They must be taking the piss.

  • by Scotteh ( 885130 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:34PM (#24217977)
    NASA is beginning a secret drug testing program.
    • Re:But really... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Thelasko ( 1196535 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:42PM (#24218187) Journal

      NASA is beginning a secret drug testing program.

      Off topic? No self respecting, tinfoil hat wearing, Slashdot reader mods that offtopic. Honestly, it would make a lame, but plausible cover for a drug testing program, and knowing our government, it's likely true.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by sunking2 ( 521698 )
        Except that NASA and thus almost all of their subcontracors already have a pretty stringent drug policy in place. They can basically test you anytime they want. No reason to sneaky about it.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by _Sprocket_ ( 42527 )

        It would depend on how they're collecting samples. Back in the late 90's I was doing a gig at a JSC building where they happened to also be working on long-term, closed life support environments. One of the projects involved recycling urine and big collection drums showed up in the buliding restrooms. My memory is a bit fuzzy on the the details of the collection device but it was a pretty simple affair - little more than a big red plastic drum with a suitably large collection port on the side and a sign

  • by pwnies ( 1034518 ) * <j@jjcm.org> on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:34PM (#24217983) Homepage Journal
    30 Liters per day? Damn...

    In other news, Management at NASA has announced that coffee for employees will now not only be free, but mandatory.
    • by Jeremiah Cornelius ( 137 ) * on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:36PM (#24218033) Homepage Journal

      It's the Golden Age of Space Exploration!

    • Re:In other news, (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) * <Satanicpuppy@nosPAm.gmail.com> on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:37PM (#24218065) Journal

      This is actually a big problem; urine disposal is significant over time because it can cause serious corrosion.

      There was a fleet of airplanes...I can't remember whose now...cargo planes...They had to be refitted, and a significant amount of redesign done, because the design of the restrooms coupled with air turbulence, ended up with a significant amount of piss dripping down on to one of the primary structural braces, and, over time, weakening it to the point of needing replacement.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Sounds like a piss-poor job of aircraft design to me...

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by fm6 ( 162816 )

        This isn't about disposal. During the Apollo missions they just put the, uh, stuff in plastic bags and tossed it out the porthole. Nobody complained.

        (During the age of sail, they used to refer to the stuff that surrounded a becalmed ship as "Captain Brown".)

        Obviously, they're working on recycling. There's no way that a lengthy lunar mission can carry along enough water without it.

        • by MillionthMonkey ( 240664 ) on Thursday July 17, 2008 @12:00AM (#24224105)

          During the Apollo missions they just put the, uh, stuff in plastic bags and tossed it out the porthole. Nobody complained.

          Yeah, isn't that a bitch... there could be a bag of Apollo astronaut shit out there with your name on it. Imagine getting beaned in the side of your space helmet by an ancient bowel movement traveling around the earth at several km/s... although they were on a diet of soft foods so that might soften the blow a little.

      • by jamrock ( 863246 ) on Thursday July 17, 2008 @01:01AM (#24224429)

        ...so read this long, rambling post only if you have an interest in aircraft and aviation. You have been warned.

        Your comment reminded me of an incident that occurred at Miami International when I worked there in 1980-82. Some background: I worked on the north side of the airport for an FBO (handler of private and corporate aircraft) and I didn't know it at the time, but MIA had quite a reputation among aviation buffs for the large number of classic aircraft parked all over the north side, including any number of DC-3's [wikipedia.org], and incredibly, a Lockheed Constellation [wikipedia.org] parked at "Corrosion Corner", the northwest corner near the fire station. When a private collector (rumored to be John Travolta) bought it and flew it out, there were hundreds of people lined up with cameras to see the stately old beauty take to the air after years sitting on the ramp. Disappointingly, I only knew it was leaving when I saw it climbing gracefully away, and so didn't get a picture of this magnificent aircraft; I never imagined that I'd ever see one flying.

        The north side, the entire length of which bordered NW 36th Street, was home to dozens of -quite literally- fly-by-night operations; charter companies ranging in size from small operations with one or two light twins, up through outfits with old DC-3's still in perfect operating condition, to larger cargo operations with jets, mostly DC-8's [wikipedia.org]. The smaller, one and two plane outfits operated mostly between South Florida and the Bahamas, almost exclusively at night. More on that in a bit.

        Next door to where I worked, one of these charter companies had a single, beautifully-maintained DC-3, and one morning while I was inspecting the ramp, I glanced at the bird and noticed that there were enormous holes in the belly of the aircraft. Turns out that the night before, they had been flying a cargo of old car batteries when they encountered severe turbulence, and the batteries started leaking all over the cabin. They didn't notice the damage until they had actually landed and parked the aircraft, at which time they saw the ground through the huge, corroded holes, and found that the control lines had been almost completely eaten through. If they had kept flying for another ten minutes or so, they would have crashed.

        At the time I worked there, the "Cocaine Cowboys" (the Medellin and Cali cartels) were just coming up to speed. "Miami Vice" had just come on the air, but some of the stuff I saw at the airport would have been laughed off as unbelievable if it had been in the script of the TV series. Miami in general, and Miami International in particular, was swimming in cocaine. MIA is the major gateway for Latin American carriers into the U.S., and in those days before the widespread crack epidemic, a day didn't go by without some major drama, and there was a wild, almost frontier feel to the north side, with all the goings-on at these little (and big) operations. The difference between charter and cargo ops, and the much more genteel terminal, with the bars and bookstores and the palm trees in the parking lots, was as stark as night and day, and most commercial passengers had absolutely zero clue that such a seedy underbelly existed.

        - Ever seen 6,000 pounds of cocaine in one place? [raises hand] Air Panama DC-8, gift-wrapped in streamers of yellow crime scene tape, parked next door to our office. The three tons of coke were stuffed into freezers in the cargo hold. Feds crawled all over everybody for weeks. I used to work the midnight shift, and so got quite familiar with many of the charter pilots who were in and out in the wee hours of the morning, on their "cargo" flights to the Bahamas. Imagine my shock when one of them handed me a kilo of cocaine one night, just because I was always polite and courteous to him (hell, I was polite and courteous to everybody; some scary folks frequented north side). He was

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by midnitewolf ( 673923 )

      On the bright side, finally a justification for drinking beer at work.

      "I swear officer, It's for the Space program, and they need 8 gallons a day!"

    • Re:In other news, (Score:5, Insightful)

      by electrosoccertux ( 874415 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:42PM (#24218205)

      I find beer works better :)
      Free beer for all employees!!!

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Brigadier ( 12956 )

      screw coffee make them drink beer, then they will have all the pee they need, shoot I would sign up.

      shoot otherwise they may cause a STALL in the project

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by geogob ( 569250 )
      Considering my current coffee consumption, I'd be pissed at any other policy.
    • Beer man... please let it be beer...

  • Well that ought to take the piss out of the Orion project.

  • kegger at Johnson! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jhines ( 82154 ) <john@jhines.org> on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:36PM (#24218031) Homepage

    all they need is to hold an on-going kegger. I'm sure they will have no problems in this area.

  • Urine? Is that all? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blueg3 ( 192743 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:37PM (#24218059)

    A professor I used to work for did research on the cryogenic preservation of sperm. The grad student who was working on this project wanted to run some initial tests, and we were not yet shipments of an appropriate animal substitute, so he acquired some samples himself.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I bet he was a wanker. =)

    • by smellsofbikes ( 890263 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:55PM (#24219519) Journal

      That's not unusual: the cheapest test subjects are always the people doing the research.
      When Mary Roach was writing "Bonk" -- a book devoted to medical research on sexuality -- she wanted to see the process, not just the results, of a doctor running an MRI and imaging people having sex. The people who did such research said there was absolutely no way she could watch unless she supplied the test subjects. (She and her husband went. Uproarious, really interesting book to read.)
      Likewise, in undergrad microbiology courses, it would be unbelievably expensive and difficult to hand out human blood samples to students to have them, say, look at live blood cells under a microscope, so students routinely draw samples from themselves, because that way there's almost no risk of contaminated blood.
      My ex-gf built ultrasound transducers for medical imaging. When the company was getting started, everyone who worked there was a man (engineering, yaaaay.) So their first breast imaging setup, they hired a hooker, because they couldn't find a cheap test subject. The prostate imaging? they flipped a coin, or drew straws, as to who got to be on which end of the test equipment.

    • by rk ( 6314 ) * on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:57PM (#24219545) Journal
      People who masturbate for research can go double blind.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by luder ( 923306 ) *

      so he acquired some samples himself

      It could be worse... At least he did not have to [qld.gov.au] masturbate a pig [youtube.com] (last link is probably NSFW).

  • by Tetsujin ( 103070 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:39PM (#24218111) Homepage Journal

    In fact, this is all a part of NASA's effort to develop the most intensive watersports programs ever conceived...

  • by AgentOJ ( 320270 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:39PM (#24218115)

    They are just trying to sap our precious bodily fluids!

  • hmmm (Score:2, Insightful)

    Why not test the toilets with something that flows with a bit more difficulty in microgravity? If it could dispose of something thick, like canola oil, why not use that? That way when it goes up, it's guaranteed to suck down whatever the astronauts can throw at it.
    • Re:hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by PhuCknuT ( 1703 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:44PM (#24218231) Homepage

      Because it's not just about the toilet, but what happens to the waste after that. They need to extract and reuse the water...

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      In addition to what other commenters have pointed out, there's also the matter of mass budgets. An over-engineered urine disposal system would add unnecessary mass and volume to the spacecraft, a system where ounces matter.

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:40PM (#24218135) Journal
    "It's difficult to come up with a faux urine, explained NASA's Jim Lewis, the systems manager overseeing development of Orion's potty. 'That's why we depend on collections.'"

    Perfect reason to write a project proposal with a couple of million bucks in budget. All down the drain now with this kind of simple solution. Contractors are not going to be happy.

  • Is that per person? That's a lot..

    Why can't they just use animal urine or synthetic urine?

    --
    Wi-Fizzle Research..yeah it's a lame domain name :/ [wi-fizzle.com]

    • by Sponge Bath ( 413667 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:49PM (#24218317)

      It's probably more difficult to get a badger to piss in a bottle than a human. It would also take a lot of badgers to generate 30 liters per day. I suppose a polar bear would generate more, but that causes other problems such as a shortage of interns to feed the bear.

  • Why didn't they need urine when I had kidney stones. I could have supplied NASA with all the urine myself.
  • by wcrowe ( 94389 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:42PM (#24218199)

    "Contractor Tells NASA To Piss Off"

  • Here We Go! (Score:5, Funny)

    by D Ninja ( 825055 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:44PM (#24218237)

    30 Liters a day? Man...if they don't manage to collect that, they're going to be pissed. What's even more disconcerting is that I'm sure the Number One guy at NASA is a wee bit worried about the results. He was overheard telling the Orion project manager, "You're in over your head on this one."

    Hopefully additional information will be leaked so the true details of this story can be flushed out.

  • So... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SeattleGameboy ( 641456 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:44PM (#24218241) Journal
    Who is the lucky person at NASA who gets to receive all the urine they get and prep them?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:44PM (#24218247)

    I just sent my resume and a teaser bottle of piss.

  • I can manage that everyday.
  • by ewhac ( 5844 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:50PM (#24218347) Homepage Journal
    EXTREMELY ANIMATED CAPTION: 'MONTY PYTHON PROUDLY PRESENTS THE INSURANCE SKETCH'

    Interior smooth-looking office. Mr Feldman behind a desk, Mr Martin in front of it. Both point to a sign on the desk: 'Life Insurance Ltd'.

    Martin: Good morning. I've been in touch with you about the, er, life insurance...

    Feldman: Ah yes, did you bring the um ... the specimen of your um ... and so on, and so on?

    Martin: Yes I did. It's in the car. There's rather a lot.

    Feldman: Good, good.

    Martin: Do you really need twelve gallons?

    Feldman: No, no, not really.

    Martin: Do you test it?

    Feldman: No.

    Martin: Well, why do you want it?

    Feldman: Well, we do it to make sure that you're serious about wanting insurance, I mean, if you're not, you won't spend a couple of months filling up that enormous churn with mmm, so on and so on...

    Martin: Shall I bring it in?

    Feldman: Good Lord no. Throw it away.

  • storage? (Score:2, Funny)

    by andre3001 ( 976515 )
    Where are they going to store all that urine? I remember a study on pregnancy where they needed real urine, which apparently breaks down rather rapidly, so they kept it all in the fridge. It's a bit scary to think of NASA working out of a giant refrigerator of pee. And I feel sorry for the guy who got an advanced degree, got a job at NASA, and is now the pee handler.
  • "It's difficult to come up with a faux urine, explained NASA's Jim Lewis, the systems manager overseeing development of Orion's potty. 'That's why we depend on collections.'"

    They can tell my sex, blood type, color of my eyes and hair, my favorite brand of cigarettes and my probability of being obese from a drop of my blood but they can't synthesize urine? Where there heck did things go so wrong?
  • by Middle - Adopter ( 906754 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @02:55PM (#24218423)

    It's probably a covert drug test.

    *puts on tinfoil hat*

    Have you ever see the earth from space...on weed???

  • Did they specify a mailing address?
  • Maybe they're just looking to cut costs? Yellow River Synthetic Urine is available for $12 for 90cc. Computes to about $4000/day for their needs. https://www.whizzinator.com/order.html [whizzinator.com] (NSFW)
    • "It's difficult to come up with a faux urine, explained NASA's Jim Lewis, the systems manager overseeing development of Orion's potty. 'That's why we depend on collections.'"

      Yes, I'm pretty sure they did.

      In any case.. is it possible to keep all the potty jokes in one thread please? Holy crap this is out of control...

  • Semen (Score:5, Funny)

    by repetty ( 260322 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:08PM (#24218667) Homepage

    I'm going to tell me son to look into this. He was pretty excited recently when he discovered he could sell his semen for $250 a pop.

    His urine might not fetch as much but he's got more of it.

  • Wow... wait... is this life, imitating video games? There's a character in Penny Arcade: On the Rainslick Precipice of Darkness that would, no doubt, be delighted to assist them with this, err. . scientific study.

  • Never have so many given so much for so few...

  • How much pee do they need? This looks like a job for beer!

  • by wherrera ( 235520 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:24PM (#24218947) Journal

    Of course, this is not the first large scale industrial use of urine. A venerable brand of pharmacy industry estrogen replacement treatment for women ( Premarin [wikipedia.org]) is made from vast quantities of horse (pregnant mare) urine. The horses spend their pregnancy hooked to a catheter. There are lots of synthetic versions now, of course.

  • by MonoSynth ( 323007 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:32PM (#24219109) Homepage

    ...for the first mission to Uranus.

  • Urine report (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:34PM (#24219131)

    The original memo is online here http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2008/07/dont_flush_dona.html

  • by sunking2 ( 521698 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:37PM (#24219199)

    This was a better deal in the good old days before law suits ruined everyones fun. For developing the shuttle toilet (ISS uses the russian toilet) there were company sanctioned keg parties after hours in the company park to help the collection along. True story. This was at the CT site, before the TX existed.

    The article doesn't get into much more than the toilet, but the full cycle will be to feed that into WCS (waste collection system) which will then go into the OGA (ox gen assembly), with end result being O2 to breath and H which will probably be tossed overboard unless they decide to add the sabatier unit to it which will take CO2 and H (plus catalysts)to produce water and methane. The theory behind it is that up to 90% of the O2 needed for a trip to Mars can be gotten from personal water intake and humidity.

  • by mtraskos35826 ( 880419 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @03:56PM (#24219537) Homepage
    ... if they collect all of this urine, is there not a job that requires someone pour all of it into the toilet?.... I guess, could you say that it really is a piss pour job?
  • by CorporateSuit ( 1319461 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @04:25PM (#24220003)
    "Be right back guys, gotta perform some NASA-level rocket science"
  • Plants! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by b1ng0 ( 7449 ) on Wednesday July 16, 2008 @05:47PM (#24220987)

    Plants love urine if it is diluted with water at between 5-10:1. Seriously. I have been using it on all of my plants in an effort to cut down costs on fertilizer and to reduce toilet flushes. Urine contains almost all nutrients that plants need: nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus and lots of micronutrients and B vitamins. My plants are flourishing on the stuff.

As you will see, I told them, in no uncertain terms, to see Figure one. -- Dave "First Strike" Pare

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