

Study Hints At Time Before Big Bang 408
canadian_right informs us that scientists from Caltech have found hints of a time before the Big Bang while studying the cosmic microwave background. Not only does the study hint at something pre-existing our universe, the researchers also postulate that everything we see was created as a bubble pinched off from a previously existing universe. This conjecture turns out to shed light on the mystery of the arrow of time. Quoting the BBC's account: "Their model suggests that new universes could be created spontaneously from apparently empty space. From inside the parent universe, the event would be surprisingly unspectacular. Describing the team's work at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society (AAS) in St Louis, Missouri, co-author Professor Sean Carroll explained that 'a universe could form inside this room and we'd never know.'"
What did you expect to see? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really though, what (in the background radiation) would point to no time before the big bang? A Kotch curve? A Hilbert curve? Complete order and continuity? I fail to see how 'blips' in the cosmic background radiation proves anything about time before the big bang.
Re:What did you expect to see? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm just saying it seems like quite a stretch.
Re:Really, what does this mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
Alternatively... (Score:3, Insightful)
I take that to mean that universes could also be destroyed spontaneously...
Re:This idea is hardly new. (Score:3, Insightful)
Call me... (Score:3, Insightful)
AFAIK (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, AFAIK a lot of it has a lot of possible solutions, and for some they don't even have the equations (yet), so there's not much of a prediction you can do with it. So far the majority of it isn't even as much a theory, as in something where you plug your values in a clear formula and get a prediction, but more of a theory that a theory might exist.
Or to put it otherwise, it's more of a mathematical construct than physics. Don't get me wrong, maths is a very very useful tool. Essential, even. But if I'm allowed a bad analogy, it's a bit like a painter's brush: it can be used to paint anything, regardless of whether it's real or outright impossible in the real world. You can use it to paint Mona Lisa or Escher's impossible pictures. So is maths. You can describe an infinity of possible universes with it, most of which have nothing to do with ours. You can use it to describe light propagation through ether, or the raisin pie atom model, or the ancient geocentric model, or even the counter-Earth ideas from waay back, all of which by now we know to be false. It becomes physics (or generally science) when you can test that formula against the real universe and see if it fits or not.
Re:Alternatively... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like philosophy and not science. (Score:2, Insightful)
i always thought the big bang was bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
once we thought the earth was the center of the universe. we threw that centrism out the window. can't people see that the big bang theory is the same kind of centrism?: "this is all we know, therefore, that's all there is"
if there is anything science teaches us, it is that we are not the center of everything
Re:I would now like to be a philology nazi. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:read this back in 2000 (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because you read about the idea 10 years ago doesn't make this any less significant.
Re:i always thought the big bang was bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Really, what does this mean? (Score:3, Insightful)
Similarly if our Universe is embedded a wider multiverse you could define time in such a way that you can have time before the big bang. But it's the fact that the universe is embedded in something else which is interesting to most people.
To me it seems appealing that the multiverse is in some steady state even if the universe isn't because that avoids the Big Bang being some sort of unique, magic Act of Creation.
Re:This idea is hardly new. (Score:5, Insightful)
First, they (should) ask do the "ordinary" physical laws explain the fluctuations? Next, if they have shown that _none_ of the physical laws _can_ explain the fluctuations, they should ask can this be a _new_ physical law to be _added_ to the existing ones? Next, if they have shown that adding such a new law is _inconsistent_ with existing laws, they should ask whether some of the existing laws are _wrong_?
If at the end of all that mountain of work, they still cannot fit the observation to a natural explanation, they should leave it at that and let somebody smarter go through their arguments to find what they missed.
Re:What did you expect to see? (Score:3, Insightful)
Mathematical models like this are worth pursuing for their own sake. History has shown that solving seemingly esoteric mathematical problems has lead to a huge number discoveries about 'reality' since Newton's time. Some examples of the mind-boggling acurate mathematical predictions from the last half century include the CMBR, Black Holes, and BE condensates.
If think of the humand mind as a complex mathematical model of 'reality' that emerges from the computations of the brain and nervous system then it makes sense that maths is capable of describing what we perceive as 'reality' to such a degree that it leads to new discoveries about 'reality'.
Question (Score:4, Insightful)
Languange and definitions evolve. Get over it. The term 'multiverse' has been around for a long time as has the concept of multiple 'Universes'. Relax. Have a beer.
Re:AFAIK (Score:3, Insightful)
but it remains a great piece of data.
Re:i always thought the big bang was bullshit (Score:2, Insightful)
Our observations (Hubble) all tell us "everything is expanding". A simple backward (in time) extrapolation gives us the Big Bang. We don't have any other observations that would suggest any backing for your "sea-like universe", so why should we even consider it valid?
This isn't centrism. Centrism would be "Earth is the center of the universe", or "this particular point is the center of the universe". In the Big Bang model, there _is_ no center, the singularity already _was_ the entire universe. We derived this from observations about the universe, not theological arguments or wishful thinking.
scratch Big Bang, read Cosmic Strangulated Hernia (Score:4, Insightful)
Interestingly if they've found evidence of something from before the Big Bang then our entire notion of spacetime having being created at that point are mute, it's not a Big Bang, perhaps a Cosmic Strangulated Hernia?. This then is the biggest news in physics since, well, since forever. To have then described something of the nature of that preexisting universe
Listen; (Score:3, Insightful)
~ e.e.cummings
FSM (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Object naming (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Time "before" the big bang is irrellevant (Score:3, Insightful)
If there are no observable effects of a time before the big bang, then it's not particularly interesting to talk about it. If there ARE observable effects, then it's VERY interesting to talk about it.