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Fable 2 Follow Up a "Significant Scientific Achievement"? 87

In a bold statement, game developer Peter Molyneux is claiming that his new Fable 2 follow up is a "significant scientific achievement". His unbridled excitement stems from years of work on AI, simulation, and character interaction. "Fortunately for fans of Molyneux-style hyperbole, the man is back with wide-eyed, reins-off enthusiasm of his own future work. [...] In Molyneux's own words, 'I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.'"
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Fable 2 Follow Up a "Significant Scientific Achievement"?

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @05:50PM (#23483182)
    In an exaggerated statement, game developer Peter Molyneux is boasting that his new Fable 2 follow up is a "minor software engineering footnote". His unbridled excitement stems from years of work on computer game applied AI, simulation, and fantasy character interaction.

    There, fixed it for you.

    'I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.'
    Yes, Wired.

    Someone just said that major scientific achievements make the cover of Wired. Not Nature, not Science, not Physical Review Letters. Wired.

    *cough* *cough*

    No offense Mr Molyneux but it would probably be better to get your major scientific achievement on the cover of UFO Magazine. More "major scientific achievements" have died after making the cover of Wired than almost any other hipster magazine. At least with UFO Magazine you will still have some believers in 10 years.
    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )
      There's no way I'm going to read the article, but I suspect the quote in the summary is bang on. I have no trouble believing that Fable 2's scientific significance is very much compatible with being on the cover of Wired. Or PC Gamer, for that matter.

      • by sjwt ( 161428 )
        I had herd so much about the AI in Fable, but realy once you hit that magic evil mark all everone dose is run screaming, did they realy think that everyone who met Saddam or Hitler just ran away screaming?
        • by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )
          Game AI seems to have that problem. Civilization has always annoyed me in that as soon as you become the dominant power everyone converts to fundamentalism, tries to extort money out of you, then declares war on you. Then there's nothing left to do but nuke them into the stone age, then drive tanks over what's left.
    • If the man was really a scientist, he would promise a cure for cancer. What you would get is a pushed back release and a pill that sells on media hype alone.

      Of course you would fork over $80 for it, and it would be a enjoyable experience. But at the end of the day, your cancer would be unquenched, and you would hate him for getting your hopes up. You hate him so much, you call him the Uwe Boll of video games.

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by steveo777 ( 183629 )
        Whoa now. Don't go that far. At least Molyneux has a few good games under his belt (Populous, Dungeon Keeper, and Fable). And, so what, most of his games have a pretty central theme (generally you can always be a bad guy). Uwe Boll? He's got nothing. I'm sure there is a 'middle ground' insult? May we not call him "Michael Bay"? Functional movies that are never really good or bad. Sure, some of them sell like hot-cakes, but in actuality, no one really knows why...
    • by yoyhed ( 651244 )
      Heh.. that's pretty much what I was thinking. Remember when the original Fable was supposed to be a game where every choice made a difference? If you planted a seed when young, there'd be a tree there later in the game when you were older? If you got cut as a kid, there'd be a scar? It was going to be interactive and open-ended, and span the life of the main character?

      And then remember when we got an 8-hour, incredibly linear walk-along-the-path-so-you-can-get-to-the-next-town-where-there-are-maybe-10-in
  • sigh (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Why does anyone bother to report Molyneux's hype? I'm sure he's done some interesting work, but a "significant scientific achievement"? How absurd. It'll be yet another Molyneux game, ie some innovative concepts that ultimately fail as an engaging game.

    I'll take Sid Meier or a dozen other designers that can actually deliver over pie-in-the-sky Molyneux any day.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by vertinox ( 846076 )
      Why does anyone bother to report Molyneux's hype?

      Well because some of us have extreme nostalgia for Populous, Powermonger, and of course the holy grail called 'Syndicate'.

      Way back in the early 90s, back when I first got Syndicate to run on my 486 with 4mb of ram with the right boot disk configuration I was floored and once I figured out how to get it to play with sound I was really into the whole game for several hundred (if not thousand) hours of my life.

      Sadly, I never played Dungeon Master for some odd re
      • Populous and Dungeon Keeper were fantastic, but I wish I had played Syndicate back in the day. Black & White was such a disappointment that I never bothered to try Fable.
      • by Jaysyn ( 203771 )
        Dungeon Keeper II is probably one of the best PC games ever made. Seriously.
        You can get it here if interested. []
      • So Molyneux is the George Lucas of video games? So what does that make Fable? Jar Jar Binks?
      • To be fair, the best comparison of Molyneux is George Lucas who as we all know made 3 amazing movies and then made some mediocre sequels.
        Correction, 6 great movies. I assume you are referring to STAR WARS. The Indiana Jones trilogy was pretty awesome as well. Everything after the last IJ has been the ruin of the Lucas reputation.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Gorath99 ( 746654 )

        Don't forget Magic Carpet []. That game was bloody amazing!

        Imagine this: it's just a year after the original Doom was released with its (for the time) amazing 2.5D game engine. Now this other game comes along that has dynamically lighted, fully morphable terrain. It has dynamic music that changes when the player enters a fight, reflections in the water, distance fog, transparency, a particle system, mouse controls, 8 player multiplayer, support for VR headsets, and, get this, it even had a red-green Stereogr []

      • by rtechie ( 244489 ) *
        Mod the parent up please. Syndicate was fscking awesome. Probably my all-time favorite game. Syndicate Wars was a fairly lackluster follow-up.

        Fable was pretty good, one of the best RPGs of it's era. But it was overshadowed by KOTOR.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    If it was anything like the first fable, he's blowing his own horn. Fable was nothing special. It was one big long cliche, but it was well executed for what it was.

    Fable reminded me of a platformer action game with RPG elements, the action gameplay was remeniscent fo Maximo.

    The truth is much of what was in the original fable was half-baked and in the PC version, the lost chapters, not being able to reconfigure and remap your keys was frustrating.
  • I'll still play it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Uncle Focker ( 1277658 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:01PM (#23483364)
    It won't be what he's boasting but I'll play it and probably enjoy it. If they can deliver even half of what they claim, then I'll be satisfied.
  • I'm confused. (Score:2, Interesting)

    So is he talking about Fable 2 (the follow-up to Fable) being the achievement, or the eventual follow-up to Fable 2?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Serzen ( 675979 )
      The kotaku article links to a Wired article which states that the follow up to Fable 2--a game he "can't talk about right now"--is the achievement in question. For those interested enough, the interview also has a couple of interesting lines about the bug-testing in Fable 2 (trying to get the AI tuned) and also the morality system (shades of grey, not just black and white--no pun intended).
  • hahaha (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deathtopaulw ( 1032050 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:06PM (#23483438) Homepage
    Am I the only one who loves Peter Molyneux and his crazy claims about his upcoming works?
    It's funny every time, also it's fun to let the imagination run wild a bit... the problem is in the fans taking it to heart so strongly.
  • Significance? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JustinOpinion ( 1246824 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:16PM (#23483558)

    I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.
    Not to be a jerk, but truly "significant scientific achievements" end up on the cover of Science Magazine or Nature Magazine, not Wired.

    Getting on the cover of Wired is more of a significant marketing achievement.

    More seriously, if this is actually a scientific advance, then it would be published in peer-reviewed journals, scrutinized by the community, and (if worthy) built upon by others. It isn't really science if you keep the secrets of your techniques locked up, and don't allow others to see/understand what you're doing. And it's certainly not a "significant achievement" if all you're doing is using the same techniques that are well-established in the field. Grandiose claims of novelty need correspondingly rigorous evidence.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by WDot ( 1286728 )
      Peter Molyneux is infamous for promising gamers the moon. Fable 2 will likely be fun, but take everything P. Molyneux here says with a grain of salt. He said similarly boastful things with Fable... and pretty much every other game he's ever had a hand in.
      • To be fair, he's delivered, and strongly, many more times than he's not. Populous, Syndicate, Dungeon Keeper... ...although the "scientific achievement" bit is a little weird.
    • by Nasajin ( 967925 )

      Not to be a jerk, but truly "significant scientific achievements" end up on the cover of Science Magazine or Nature Magazine, not Wired.

      Or in a peer-reviewed journal, if it's actually an achievement as opposed to a curiosity.
    • But you're arguing semantics here. When Molyneux says it's a "significant scientific advancement" he's only talking about the way it has advanced video games. An advance in video games, however great, is small potatoes in the world of science. Also, we have to take into account Mr. Molyneux's propensity for hyperbole. Any advance he talks about is going to be half of what he envisions it to be. If Molyneux says it will grace the cover of Wired than it will probably be a big advance in the world of gadgets
  • by hobb0001 ( 989441 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:28PM (#23483762)
    I tell you, there's no greater reward for scientific achievement than to be put on the cover of Wired.

    ...and in related news, Mozart still laments having never made the cover of Rolling Stone.
  • Fable 2 will achieve the never-seen-before unsurmountable level of unmet expectations no matter how good it is.
    • I think Killzone 2 beat it there. That old Killzone 2 E3 trailer that Sony tried to con people into thinking was real footage still has no game behind it. The rumor is they're waiting until they can actually make it look a fraction as good as the trailer.
  • Promises, promises (Score:4, Informative)

    by Zerth ( 26112 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:33PM (#23483850)
    While I liked Black & White, Mr. Molyneux has been a windbag since Bullfrog. Always hype, hype, hype, disappointment with him. Most of his recent games would be decent to fairly good if only he would shut the hell up before release.

    Wish he'd make another Dungeon Keeper.
    • I entirely agree... I saw Black & White but was not excited enough about it to buy it. Or spend my time on it.
      I still yearn to play Dungeon Keeper on occasion.
      I think it's funny that he decided that he had made a mistake with it. To paraphrase 'The problem with Dungeon Keeper was that I put too many controls in the user interface...' interesting that I had never thought that or heard that from other players of the game...
      • by nuzak ( 959558 )
        > I still yearn to play Dungeon Keeper on occasion.

        Me too, but the damn game simply doesn't run on XP. You can increase the time it takes til it crashes from nearly instantaneous to getting in maybe 10 minutes of play if you use only software rendering and turn off QSound. Which really takes away a good chunk of what made it so good. And just to add insult to injury, the funny movies between dungeons don't even play.

        Black and White was *really* good for the first few levels, and then it completely fal
        • Black and White was *really* good for the first few levels, and then it completely falls apart.

          Black and White had a good idea, but pretty shitty execution. It wasn't good even for the first few levels, it was simply new.

          Still, who can forget the sailors: "Eye-del-eye-del-eeeeeee, Eye-del-eye-del-eeeeeee ... we simply can't leave til we get some more wood."

          While they were surrounded by forest on all sides except the sea. That, I believe, was the moment where the game came closest to the authentic g

        • For what it's worth, Dungeon Keeper II still plays on XP just fine. You can't alt-tab, though, which sucks.
        • by Jaysyn ( 203771 )
          Not sure about Dungeon Keeper, but Dungeon Keeper 2 plays fine on my XP gaming rig.
    • EA lost money for the first time EVER and clobbered all its PC projects.

      Read more here: []

    • Black & White almost had scientific merit for its AI system, but from a gameplay perspective, it was laden with problems. Two stood out the most. One, the campaign became boring and extremely repetitive, involving casting the same spells dozens or hundreds of times to meet the scenario objectives, all without the help of your creature. And two, the method of training your creature was an extremely non-intuitive "reward/punish your pet before it acts, rather than after" that was woefully lacking in fe
    • I hear he is working on a colibaration []
  • by Zaphod-AVA ( 471116 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @06:45PM (#23484032)
    I want to follow him around and periodically shout "Try to get your combat multiplier *even higher*! Until the cops drag me away.
    • you made me laugh so hard, coffee came out my nose.

      I think we should get him on a Takeshi's Castle style game show and make him chase chickens. While heckling him in bad faux British accents.
      • Re: (Score:1, Troll)

        by Das Modell ( 969371 )
        It's okay to say "that was funny" or just "LOL." You don't have to make shit up about you spilling coffee from your nose or ruining your keyboard or whatever. It's getting a little old by now.
        • No, I was not actually trolling. I actually do believe, sincerely, that the "OLOLLOO WTB NEW KEYBOARD" meme is getting really, really old.
          • And i was thinking that maybe there's a world of difference between a cheerful anecdote and "OMGLOOKATMEIM12!!+1".

            Also, exaggeration is a meme older than either you or I, so even if i had been exaggerating I'm not sure your complaint would be applicable.

            PS: it wasn't a lot of coffee, just bad timing on my part.
            PPS: my keyboard is still intact and functional. Thankyou for your concern.
    • OMG, I *HATED* that part! I don't think I ever did get it, because they couldn't spawn fast enough to keep up with the amount of damage I was dealing, or something like that.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by steveo777 ( 183629 )
        Yeah, the easy way to do that? IIRC you simply equip the stick that you start the game with and go to town on things. Or just the weakest weapon you can find.
    • "Ah! There is an important quest card for you at the Guild!"

      Yeah, thanks, mind if I rescue my mom from the evil prison first???

      I beat the shit out of that old guy every chance I got. And he was invulnerable, which meant I could just hammer away on him until I got it out of my system. I sent lightning bolts right up his ass whenever I visited the Guild.

  • Gadzooks (Score:3, Funny)

    by ludomancer ( 921940 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @07:17PM (#23484534)
    "In a bold statement, game developer Peter Molyneux..."

    I honestly didn't make it past that part.

  • I love what Peter has done for us over the years, but he needs to learn the difference between science and engineering. Whatever this will be, it won't be a scientific achievement.

    Also, as game AI is mostly smoke and mirrors, it probably won't be a major engineering achievement either.

    A major entertainment achievement, possibly.

  • I made the mistake of listening to the crap he spewed for the original installment of Fable. The released game was pretty enjoyable, but it was not the same game that he was talking about. So I don't know if he ever actually plays the games he leads or spits out ideas and expects them to be implemented. But I refuse to read about anything he's making until it's already released. And I'll stick to reviews by anyone but Molyneux.
    • by KDR_11k ( 778916 )
      I think some of the developers under him said he has a tendency to think up new features during interviews and then talk about them as if they were already implemented.
  • by analog_line ( 465182 ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @08:37PM (#23485646)
    1. Molyneux hypes the hell out of $game_X
    2. Delivered product turns out to be nothing like the hype.
    3. Expansion released to attempt to mollify angry fans.
    4. Pick up $game_X plus expansion for 1/5th-1/10th of its original retail value a couple years later, and at that price it turns out to be not that bad at all.
  • But there was NOTHING groundbreaking about the game. Your character ages. That was ultimately the big excitement.


    *cue cricket noise*

    So basically, if the game is fun, great. But Molyneaux's bullshit seriously needs to be checked.
  • Deja Vu (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xplenumx ( 703804 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2008 @12:22AM (#23487740)
    I seem to remember Mr. Molyneux promising the world four years ago as well.

    A message from Peter Molyneux.
    There is something I have to say. And I have to say it because I love making games. When a game is in development, myself and the development teams I work with constantly encourage each other to think of the best features and the most ground-breaking design possible.

    However, what happens is that we strive to include absolutely everything we've ever dreamt of and, in my enthusiasm, I talk about it to anyone who'll listen, mainly in press interviews. When I tell people about what we're planning, I'm telling the truth, and people, of course, expect to see all the features I've mentioned. And when some of the most ambitious ideas get altered, redesigned or even dropped, people rightly want to know what happened to them.

    If I have mentioned any feature in the past which, for whatever reason, didn't make it as I described into Fable, I apologise. Every feature I have ever talked about WAS in development, but not all made it. Often the reason is that the feature did not make sense. For example, three years ago I talked about trees growing as time past. The team did code this but it took so much processor time (15%) that the feature was not worth leaving in. That 15 % was much better spent on effects and combat. So nothing I said was groundless hype, but people expecting specific features which couldn't be included were of course disappointed. If that's you, I apologise. All I can say is that Fable is the best game we could possibly make, and that people really seem to love it.

    I have come to realise that I should not talk about features too early so I am considering not talking about games as early as I do. This will mean that the Lionhead games will not be known about as early as they are, but I think this is the more industry standard.

    Our job as the Lionhead family of studios is to be as ambitious as we possibly can. But although we jump up and down in glee about the fabulous concepts and features we're working on, I will not mention them to the outside world until we've implemented and tested them, and they are a reality.

    Thank you for reading.


    Source: []

    I'll believe it when I see it. I wish you the best of luck Mr. Molyneux.

  • In a bold statement, actor Harrison Ford is claiming that his new Indiana Jones 4 follow up is a "significant archeological achievement". His unbridled excitement stems from years of "work".

    "Fortunately for fans, the man is back with wide-eyed, reins-off enthusiasm of his own future work. [...] In Ford's own words, 'I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Entertainment Weekly.'"
  • Fable 1 introduce the concept of the hero falling into a time vortex where you can start the game in a 'normal' family, but end up a hundred years older than your mother, and almost have to chase the final anti-hero round in a zimmer frame..
    I wonder what Fable 2 is going to be, some further delving into the theory of Imaginary Time where a new breakthrough in theory is implemented into the game as a demonstration?
  • So how many Gamer Points will this "Significant Scientific" Achievement get me?
  • Lionhead have managed to disprove the old adage that you can't fool people twice.
  • Peasants... (Score:3, Funny)

    by FishAdmin ( 1288708 ) on Wednesday May 21, 2008 @08:06AM (#23490746)
    I just hope the peasants don't all sound like rejects from "My Fair Lady" this time. I hated that the only woman you could marry that DIDN'T have an obnoxious accent was the Mayor. Not easy when you're trying to do the "all good" type run-through. "Oh! You really ARE an 'ero!" *shudder* And yet, all the prostitutes sounded educated. Hmm...
  • Molyneux does make good games, but he's also got a very big mouth. Fable was good, but I would've definitely felt cheated if I had bothered to follow the game and bought into the hype. So, I will simply ignore Fable 2 until it comes out and be pleasantly surprised.
  • EXTRA! EXTRA! DNA test confirms Derek Smart and Peter Molyneux are related! EXTRA! EXTRA! Read all about it!

Disks travel in packs.