Harvard Scientists Aim To Stop Cancer In Its Tracks 87
Shuntros writes "BBC News is reporting progress from scientists at Harvard Medical School towards strangling the growth of cancer cells. By starving cells of a certain type of enzyme, growth essentially ceases. 'The fact that proliferating cancer are able to consume glucose at a much higher rate than normal cells was first discovered by the German Nobel prize-winning chemist Otto Warburg more than 75 years ago. He also showed that the amount of glucose the cells needed to keep their vital signs ticking over was minimal, allowing them grow and divide at the prodigious rate usually associated with foetal cells.' Certainly not a cure by any stretch of the imagination, but putting the brakes on cancer growth in this way is very much akin to the revolution that was AZT."
Wonderful editorial work (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wonderful editorial work (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wonderful editorial work (Score:5, Interesting)
AFAIK the results so far could not be explained by the Warburg effect alone and that was the reason why many scientists questioned the DCA results. So this makes the DCA results doubly interesting.
NOT TRUE! (Score:1)
Re:Wonderful editorial work (Score:5, Insightful)
That means that no patient is going to be cured by the drug. Getting a drug to pass all the tests is so expensive, that no drug company is going to do that without patent protection for the drug. It is only then that they can earn their money back (and make a profit) .
Only if the government is going to step in and provide the funds does it give patients a chance.
Bert
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sold as a real medicine, not likely, but someone could probably get it approved as a dietary supplement with some 'fancy trade mark name' in however long it takes to get the paperwork through... and the websites touting it's use for blah blah blah, and how much to use etc...
since the cost and turn around times are lowe
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however, approval for use as a 'dietary supplement' is far, far, far more lax. After all, stevia was approved as a 'dietary supplement' years and years before coke/cargil got in on the game...
sold as a real medicine, not likely, but someone could probably get it approved as a dietary supplement with some 'fancy trade mark name' in however long it takes to get the paperwork through... and the websites touting it's use for blah blah blah, and how much to use etc...
Definitely not, it doesn't qualify as a supplement under the FDA's definition. Stevia definitely does qualify as a supplement. The only part that is even the smallest bit hazy is that last rule, and even that is pretty solid.
OTOH, there's no way at this point that DCA isn't going to run afoul of the definition at this point. It also isn't meant to supplement a person's diet. It just doesn't conform to the definition that the FDA uses for deciding whether or not a substance is a supplement.
http://www.cfsan. [fda.gov]
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"DCA has been used historically to treat patients with lactic acidosis, and therefore could arguably enter phase 2 trials in patients with cancer"
no need to do phase 1 trials then the cost goes DOWN considerably. and consider that any generic drugs have to get through hurdles with the FDA as well... well, there could well be money to be made in the states...
and although it's not 'official' a pair of plucky Canadians have been using DCA with 're
Re:Wonderful editorial work (Score:4, Informative)
Phase I trials are actually only a tiny portion of the cost. Typically they involve giving the drug to a couple dozen or so terminal patients to asses the safety/side effects, find the tolerable dose, etc. It's kind of a touchy area, since no matter how many animal trials you do, you can never really be sure that the drug won't have severe side effects, or even kill a human outright (that one's unlikely, but you won't know until you give it to humans).
So the whole thing will usually run only a couple million dollars. It's when you get to phase II and III, with hundreds and thousands of patients, that the real costs come into the picture.
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maybe because it's being done in Canada and not the US that laws may be different... but, yeah also, keep in mind 90% of phase 1 studies are rejected by the FDA and those animal studies cost money too, so there IS a lot of money savings by it being an approved drug. You know for instance, a safe dose f
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Large pharma will routinely run studies with thousands of patients.
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All Right! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I saw a documentary on this (Score:5, Informative)
This is a completely different approach, it only slows cancer using a drug to restrict the presence of a certain enzyme. In I Am Legend they used a retrovirus to control the cancer. (They used a modified version of measles which technically is a paramyxovirus, not a retrovirus
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Still need an inhibitor (Score:5, Informative)
Promising result (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Promising result (Score:4, Informative)
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You are right -- for example, CHOP therapy for Hodgkin's disease. Wikipedia has a list of other chemo regimens [wikipedia.org]. Combination therapy is usually much better for a number of reasons, among them being better outcomes.
Low Carb? No Really. (Score:3, Interesting)
Just a thought.
Re:Low Carb? No Really. (Score:4, Insightful)
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Since this is /., I can be nitpicky and say that the TCA releases very little ATP. Most ATP is generated via oxidative phosphorylation [wikipedia.org] using NADH and FADH2 created in the TCA.
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Technically the TCA does not include the ETC. At least, not according to Stryer's Biochemistry [nih.gov]
From Stryer's:
The function of the citric acid cycle is the harvesting of high-energy electrons from carbon fuels. Note that the citric acid cycle itself neither generates a large amount of ATP nor includes oxygen as a reactant.
Again, nitpicky, but many points have been lost on tests on that technicality :)
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Personally, I find the idea of a low-carb diet for cancer makes some sense. After all, if cancer cells consume glucose at a prodigious rate, then bringing down the level of glucose in the bloodstream would be a good idea. I do know that lowcarb diets do indeed keep blood glucose levels constant.
Of course, this is "common sense", and the body doesn't always follow common sense. For example, exercise doesn't lead to weight loss,
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So in theory, if all the glucose you ingest/produce is used by your brain, there is none left to nourish tumors.
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Carb metabolism = glycolysis >> TCA cycle / Krebs cycle >> Electron transport chain
Lipid (Fat) metabolism = beta oxidation >> Krebs cycle >> Electron transport chain
Since the lipid molecules have longer carbon chains, the by-products of beta-oxidation can enter the Krebs cycle several times over which gives fat the ATP
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Giving dichloroacetate instead of acetate is a throwing the monkeywrench (DCA) into the works of Krebs cycle. Instead of hydrogen atoms on the methyl carbon, you have nasty electrophilic chlorines. Metabolism gives poisons like oxalic acid.
Re:Low Carb? No Really. (Score:4, Interesting)
One thing that always happens when people become westernized is that they eat more sugar and processed carbs. Gary claims that the sugar and cancer relationship has never been tested because it has been assumed that sugar is good while fat is bad. Yet if fat is the problem then why did Eskimos not get these diseases on their diet of largely whales and other animals until after they were westernized and started actually eating a lot less fat but tons of sugar and carbs?
Re:Low Carb? No Really. (Score:4, Informative)
E. Giovannucci, E.B. Rimm and G.A. Colditz et al., A prospective study of dietary fat and risk of prostate cancer, J Natl Cancer Inst 85 (1993), pp. 1571-1579.
P.H. Gann, C.H. Hennekens and F.M. Sacks et al., Prospective study of plasma fatty acids and risk of prostate cancer, J Natl Cancer Inst 86 (1994), pp. 281-286
D.A. Snowdon, R.L. Phillips and W. Choi, Diet, obesity, and risk of fatal prostate cancer, Am J Epidemiol 120 (1984), pp. 244-250
A.W. Hsing, L. Tsao and S.S. Devesa, International trends and patterns of prostate cancer incidence and mortality, Int J Cancer 85 (2000), pp. 60-67
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Like I keep saying, agree or disagree the
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That being said, there is an interesting relationship
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Because if I'm gonna die of a heart attack at 50 instead of living to get cancer at 70, I'd rather stick with sugars than change to fats.
Re:Low Carb? No Really. (Score:4, Interesting)
Purely out of curiosity, how frequently were these non-westernised tribal people examined by doctors for cancer using conventional technology when they developed an illness? And how many accurate records of death (and particularly cause of death, determined via an autopsy rather than via a witch doctor) were kept?
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However, many of those accounts were from doctors practicing in the late 1800's and early 1900's which explains why other people may ignore these accounts. It is likely though that even those old doctors would know some forms of cancer when they saw them and yet there are accounts of doctors spen
Re:Low Carb? No Really. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Some of these tribes I mentioned before did get a lot of thei
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G
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(Personally, though, my attitude was "I'm going through fucking chemotherapy, I feel like shit, I will eat whatever the hell I want." Maybe not the most health-conscious approach, but sometimes you have to cling to the little things in life, especially when steroids are making you r
Two articles down (Score:2)
Then we could see if there's a way for cancer cells to becone regenerative somehow.
Really disappointed in our Cancer researchers. (Score:1)
Antibody therapy = failure
Gene therapy = failure.
Nanodrugs = failure.
Our immune systems are interfering in these therapies. Why not put down the immune system and put the patient in a clean room free from germs and then try antibodies & gene therapy?
Re:Really disappointed in our Cancer researchers. (Score:5, Informative)
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Your link is completely mistaken. Gleevec is a great drug, but it absolutely does not "fix DNA". Wikipedia explains [wikipedia.org] its mechanism correctly.
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No, we don't have the "magic bullet" yet. Yes, current therapies have lots of side-effects, both short-term and long-term, although many modern therapies have fewer than they did 20-50 years ago. But to declare all of cancer research a failure is pretty silly.
Also, I don't know anything about immune systems and antibody or gene therapy, but I'll bet the idea of a clean room hasn't gone completely unexplor
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If you live long enough, you will accrue mutations that will lead to cancer. Cancerous cells are your cells, so it's bound to be difficult to kill one and not the other. It's a hard problem, compounded by the fact that there are almost as many types of cancer as there are cancer patients. There's never
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Great News (Score:2)
Anyhow we're learning more and more about the various cancers out there, and it seems that many have common features that will enable us to knock them out. I see a brighter future for mankind coming, but the transitional period will be a struggle. It is interesting to be alive during this transition.
Warburg's other effect (Score:5, Informative)
It can also be done using superoxides (ozone, which produces hydrogen peroxide in the body, or H2O2 itself). Superoxide production is a normal part of the immune system, and cancer cells don't increase their SOD production proportionally with their growth rate. This is because the superoxides work on mitochondria, where metabolism occurs. The main cell is what's cancerous, not the mitochondria.
Another way to increase H2O2 in the body is to inhibit the enzyme that protects cells from high levels of H2O2, superoxide dismutase (SOD), allowing natural or infused levels of the substance to increase. Penicillin is one such SOD inhibitor, and other antibiotics are being tried. The effects are variable but generally positive. This can be facilitated by including manganese, selenium or zinc, around which the SOD builds itself, explaining the role of minerals containing these to be helpful in fighting infections.
Yes, the increased H2O2 levels can be harmful to cells, or else the body wouldn't have a mechanism to keep it in check. This is the role antioxidants play. Excessive H2O2 is an earmark of autoimmune diseases. There is an optimum level for normal cells. But cancer cells are much more sensitive, and a little damage due to superoxides is preferred over a lot of damage due to cancer.
I found some of the above information while researching my dissertation. It was based on inhibiting another oxygen scavenger, monoamine oxidase (MAO). The MAO inhibitor I looked at is trimethyl naphthoquinone (TMN), and this substance can protect the body from at least one autoimmune disease, Parkinson's. It is ironic then that one common source of TMN is in smoking tobacco. An anti-carcinogen effect isn't seen in smoking (though it may in fact occur) because of the other chemicals in smoking which are carcinogenic to an extent orders of magnitude greater than TMN's. Its MAO inhibition plateaus at low doses whereas the carcinogens don't, so getting TMN is better accomplished other ways. This, and other MAO inhibitors might be helpful in fighting cancer. These are not being widely tested, but the little research so far (mostly in other natural products) is showing some anti-carcinogen effect. SOD inhibition is probably much more effective than MAO inhibition, however the MAO inhibitor effect supports the hypothesized role of oxygen via a second if less effective mechanism.
What a mess... (Score:1)
Another chemotherapy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Dr John Holt's Cancer Treatment (Score:3, Interesting)
Holt, JA 1979, "The cause of cancer: biochemical defects in the cancer cell demonstrated by the effects of electromagnetic radiation, glucose and oxygen", Med Hypotheses, vol. 5, no. 1, pp. 109-143.
Holt, J 1983, "Cancer, a disease of defective glucose metabolism: the energy for mitosis appears to come from a gluathione mediated glycolysis", Med Hypotheses, vol. 10, no. 2, pp. 133-150. [Holt83]
The rest are at: http://www.the-institute.com.au/reference_pubs.html [the-institute.com.au]
Cure for Optimism (Score:3, Interesting)
No cure for cancer, but at least a partial cure for unfounded optimism about finding a cure for cancer can be found in this talk by Lee Hartwell, Nobel prize winner and head of the Fred Hutchinson cancer center in Seattle:
http://www.uwtv.org/programs/displayevent.aspx?rID=2669 [uwtv.org]
Not only is it wrong to view all cancers as a single disease, it may be wrong to view the cancer in a single patient as a single disease. Cancer is genetically unstable, and it may turn out that the nature of the stability is plausibly modelled by assuming the cancer is using genetic (oh the irony) algorithms. IOW, past a certain point (e.g., metastasis), the cancer cells (at least a small minority of them), may be constantly spitting out all manner of genetic mutations at a high rate. This would help explain the extreme adaptability of most forms of cancer metastasis to whatever treatment you care to throw at them. As Judah Folkman said, every time a patient's cancer returns, it seems to have learned about new growth factors.
If you're worried about cancer, focus on prevention, not on the hope of a cure.
There already exists a cancer cure... (Score:1)
Curcumin is the active component of turmeric, the spice that gives curry and old-fashioned mustards that yellow color. And turmeric is not only rather cheap, but the process for extracting and concentrat
Re:There already exists a cancer cure... (Score:5, Informative)
I call BS. No less authority than MD Anderson (#1 cancer facility in U.S.) has been studying curcumin for years (which the woman points out is how she found out about it). MD Anderson has not found it to be "a cure for cancer" so far. MD Anderson studies far outweigh the data point of "a friend of my mother's". I can find nothing in her blog that indicates she had "metastasized" cancer. Please don't go around telling people she cured metastasized cancer with curcumin; you may give false hope to, for example, someone with metastasized breast cancer, a disease that has a nearly perfect kill rate at Stage IV.
Cancers differ based on the type of cell that originally became cancerous, just like car wrecks differ depending on the type of vehicle. She has multiple myeloma, and some varieties of MM are so indolent that doctors recommend no treatment. If your doctor recommends "let's wait and see if it actually gets worse", then knock yourself out with curcumin.
This is not a knock against curcumin, which may turn out to be a useful anti-cancer agent, and I certainly put it my wife's adjuvant therapy (amongst a *great* many other substances) to try to prevent metastasis. It's a knock against claiming a cure for cancer exists and is cheap and is just ignored because of financial reasons. Before you do that, please spend a few years studying cancer and walking the cancer wards. If you don't have great respect for how far the problem of cancer thus far exceeds our intelligence, then you don't understand cancer.
Ditto for IP6. If you get cancer and want to forgo treatment in favor of phytochemicals, despite the clear evidence that your body has allowed a cancer to grow unfettered and needs some major help, then good luck with that and let me know how that works out for ya. But don't tell other people to do that. Some desperate fool might think you know what you're talking about.
I cure friends and relatives of cancer, etc (Score:1)
So I decided to make a website to teach people how to cure cancer themselves.
There is no catch. I'm a Pro-life volunteer and this is just an extension of my charity.
Please read and view the videos, tell me how I can improve on it in terms of relaying information to you so that more people will understand that cancer cures exist, right here, right now.
http://www.curemanual.com/diseases-and-tweaks/cancer [curemanual.com]