'Death Star' Aimed at Earth

An anonymous reader writes "A spectacular, rotating binary star system is a ticking time bomb, ready to throw out a searing beam of high-energy gamma rays that could lead to a major extinction event — and Earth may be right in the line of fire. Australian science magazine Cosmos Magazine reports: 'Though the risk may be remote, there is evidence that gamma ray bursts have swept over the planet at various points in Earth's history with a devastating effect on life. A 2005 study showed that a gamma-ray burst originating within 6,500 light years of Earth could be enough to strip away the ozone layer and cause a mass extinction. Researchers led by Adrian Melott at the University of Kansas in Lawrence, U.S., suggest that such an event may have been responsible for a mass extinction 443 million years ago, in the late Ordovician period, which wiped out 60 per cent of life and cooled the planet.'"

lies, Lies, LIES!!!

[grub]

443 million years ago

How do these fancy-pants "scientists" know what happened 442,994,000 years before Earth was created?

Re:lies, Lies, LIES!!!

[sm62704]

Easy, they asked me.

Re:lies, Lies, LIES!!!

[The-Bus]

Not only that, but the event is "6,500 light years" away; that's far, far in the future. According to my Kansas Board of Education approved science book, Judgment will come upon us before that time.

Re:

[msromike]

The good news is that it will take 6500 years to arrive. The bad news is that it went Supernova 6499 years ago.

Re:lies, Lies, LIES!!!

[BoomerSooner]

Well at least we've figured out how to stop global warming :)

Re:I asked GOD

[Anonymous Coward]

That would explain why his ping sucks in TF2.

Re:

[Z34107]

Whip out your concordance. The Hebrew word for "day" used in Genesis isn't meant to be metaphorical; it's a literal, 24-hour period of time.

If you assume that everything in the Bible is no deeper than a convoluted historical document, you're missing a lot.

Re:I asked GOD

[lowededwookie]

Actually you're wrong. The word day is used in many contexts in the Bible. The creative days mentioned in the Bible are not literal 24 hour days. In context they refer to periods. There are also scriptures in both Old and New Testaments that say "a thousand years are but as a day in God's eyes" so at bare minimum the creative days would be 6000 years. But what people fail to realise is that there are two creative periods. Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" but from Genesis 1:2 onwards it talks about creative days on Earth and in the original Hebrew the language indicated it was from the perspective of someone standing on the earth looking up so the creation of the sun, moon, and stars would have seemed to have just happened as a dark cloud was removed thus unveiling the luminaries. The problem with those decrying the Bible is that most of them have never read it so they know stuff all about it. For all the mocking if people read it they'd realise it is a fascinating book with prophecies which have been so accurate that in many cases it's been accused of being written after the fact which is wrong considering that Daniel had the book of Isaiah before the fall of Babylon and Isaiah had written not only that Babylon will fall but who and how (Isaiah 45:1-25) which is the only prophecy to mention a person by name and was written 200 years before the event. Archeology backs up most of the Bible so it's not just a book to be taken on faith.

The problem

[jgoemat]

The problem with those decrying the Bible is that most of them have never read it so they know stuff all about it.

The problem with those embracing the Bible is that most of them have never read it either. It is an amalgam of different stories that contradict each other. Any serious theologian that has studied the Bible does not believe in the literalness of the text. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence that does the same will immediately see the contradictory and ridiculous nature of it. So we are

Re:

[Vexar]

Oh no. The day-age theorist argument again. If you use that concordance properly, you will note that the usage is not "Back in Caesar's day..." for the Hebrew word 'Yom.' It is used hundreds of times throughout the Bible. The only time it appears to mean more than a single cycle of light and dark (or the period of light only) is when it is applied with a modifier. Even Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (are there others?) states that for the word to mean anything other than a single revolution of the ear

Re:

[Z34107]

If you believe that everything contradicting a literal interpretation of the Bible is a lie, you're missing even more.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. They're creation stories, not docu-dramas. Ask, "what insight is the author of this text trying to convey?" not "How can I rationalize a story to fit a literal history I want to believe in."

Re:I asked GOD

[kalirion]

Reminds me of an old joke:

A man has gained an audience with God.

Man: Oh Lord, what is a million years like to you?

God: To me, my son, a million years is but a day.

Man: Oh Lord, what is a million dollars like to you?

God: To me, my son, a million dollars is but a penny.

Man: Oh Lord, would you give me a penny?

God: Tomorrow.

Back on this death star thing

[renegadesx]

God: Dantoonie is to remote for an effective demonstration

Thanks guys

[NIckGorton]

Further research would be required to determine if we are exactly in line with the axis of the system - but even if we are, we probably still have hundreds of thousands of years to come up with a solution, said Tuthill.

Thanks for putting that at the end of TFA. Now I need to go change my shorts.

Re:Thanks guys

[polar red]

errr ... "informative" ???

Re:Thanks guys

[Shinmizu]

Well, I, for one, wanted to know whether he was wearing shorts, something else, or nothing at all.

Re:

[LOTHAR, of the Hill]

Was the article accompanied by a grant application?

Sounds like one of those three steps to profit schemes...

Re:Thanks guys

[Metasquares]

The first rule of research is that more research is always needed. You don't see too many papers that end with "Yep, that's everything" :)

Re:Thanks guys

[KwKSilver]

Not only that, but the star is 8000 light years distant, and the danger-zone was cited as 6500 light years. Even allowing for a 10% error in both figures...

Re:

[rmerry72]

Not only that, but the star is 8000 light years distant, and the danger-zone was cited as 6500 light years.

Gamma rays don't suddenly stop dead in their tracks at 6500 light years, nor do they dissipate that fast. Gamma rays are light and the fact that we can see this star (and those thousands of times further away) indicates that if a large burst of gammas was flung in our direction we'd be well in the path. There was a recent episode of The Universe that covered this possibility. Nothing we can do about

I wouldn't worry overmuch

[secPM_MS]

While such Wolf-Rayet doubles, or the LBV in Eta Carniae are definitely pre-supernovae, it is unlikely that they are likely gamma ray burst sources. GRB's have a very strong preference for low metallicity environments, almost certainly because higher metal levels cause them to loose too much mass angular momentum. In this region of the galaxy, the metal levels is too high to have a high unlikelihood of GRB's. Also note that for the GRB to propagate into space, the star must first have blown off its envelope, or the GRB is absorbed in the stellar atmosphere and simply adds to the explosion energy (this is probably quite common).

Re:Thanks guys

[Mister Whirly]

You are correct, but as the light we are seeing from the star right now also traveled the same distance. It could have shot out a gamma ray 7,999 years ago and we could be toast within the year. I am no scientist either, but I figure both light waves would travel at the same speed.

Re:

[flosofl]

If that were so then wouldn't see some sort of "Gamma Ray Disturbance" much closer to us than the actual binary star source due to the "Death Ray" traveling towards us at the speed of light as well? Take for instance this thing shot out a ray about 4000 years ago, we would see a "Gamma Ray Disturbance" 4000 light years away.

Uh, no, we can not see events 4000 light light years away instantaneously. We would have to wait 4,000 years before the image of that Gamma Ray Disturbance reached Earth. At which tim

Re:

[kalirion]

Maybe he meant a "Disturbance in the Force" as planets four thousand light years away from us are wiped out. Force Disturbances, as I understand it, travel at subspace speeds at least.

Re:Thanks guys

[Cecil]

Nope. The light, radiowaves, whatever we might use to detect this disturbance would also travel at the speed of light. Put simply, information cannot travel faster than the speed of light. Outside of science fiction, and pending further discoveries in physics, there is absolutely no way to realistically know anything beyond the speed of light, everything we see or detect has already happened. The speed of light is a harsh mistress indeed.

The only thing we can do is rely on predictions based on our existing knowledge of physics that a light-speed event will soon begin, or continue. But we will never be able to know for certain that it's happened until it's upon us. By analogy, we know the sun will continue shining its light at us because we know that even in the worst case scenario, a collapse of its internal fusion reactions would take millions of years and we could see signs that such an event was happening, such as seeing that its hydrogen fuel supplies were about to run out. However, if there is some previously unknown method of collapse that is instantaneous and the sun looked entirely normal until it happened, then it would be entirely possible that the sun has already shut down and in 1 to 8 minutes we are about to realize that today is definitely not a good day.

Re:

[JordanH]

You guys must've posted at exactly the same time!

You don't know that. Some of the posters might have been relatively further away and it just took the message longer to get to you, but they might have posted at earlier.

Or, maybe that's the point...

Re:

[TekPolitik]

Funny that all three posts say exactly the same thing... You guys must've posted at exactly the same time!

Only from your frame of reference.

Re:With the risk of sounding stupid...

[Captain Nitpick]

gamma rays travel in the speed of light right? If the event happened X light years from us, X years in the past, aren't we cooked before we know it happened? Only when the burst energy reaches earth - that's the moment we know it happens.

Yep.

However, we might be able to spot changes in a star leading up to the actual burst. If we knew what to look for.

Re:Not so

[huckamania]

Let's start by putting some detectors out in space that ping us every second. When the burst hits the sensors out there in space and destroys them we'll know here on Earth because the pings will stop. Put them out about a light year away and we'll have a whole year to prepare.

See, problem solved.

Re:Thanks guys

[Intron]

"we probably still have hundreds of thousands of years to come up with a solution, said Tuthill."

Which leads us to the interesting question: If we knew we were in danger and had 100,000 years to do something about it, what would be the simplest solution?

1) Move everybody somewhere else
2) Put up shields
3) Move the Solar system out of the way
4) Point the Supernova at the Arcturans instead

Re:

[James McGuigan]

5) The political answer, it would cost too much, so lets forget about it and allow future generations figure something out

Thanks Global Warming

[192939495969798999]

If these rays cool the planet, and Global Warming warms the planet, we should stay a nice luke-warm and be fine, right?

If not, can't we just count on that layer of lead-based space debris to block the gamma rays? No? well then, feets don't fail me now!

Re:Thanks Global Warming

[Pharmboy]

If these rays cool the planet, and Global Warming warms the planet, we should stay a nice luke-warm and be fine, right?

Except for the searing ultraviolet from a lack of ozone, I would say you are about spot on.

Re:Thanks Global Warming

[An ominous Cow art]

There's plenty of time to buy stock in companies which make suntan lotion, sunblock, sunglasses, etc.

Re:Thanks Global Warming

[ajs]

If these rays cool the planet, and Global Warming warms the planet, we should stay a nice luke-warm and be fine, right?

You're mis-reading the quote. The event cooled the planet, not the rays. Likely that was a result of secondary effects. For example, killing 60% of living things would result in lots of barren land which would produce large amounts of dust. That may have been what produced the cooling effect.

Re:

[rdean400]

Since Ozone is a greenhouse gas, being stripped of the ozone layer would seem to act as a brake on global warming.

Re:Wouldn't killing 60% of life result in lots of

[sakdoctor]

Yeah well the remaining 40% can always buy a carbon offset.

Atmosphere? What atmosphere?

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a show a year or two ago that said scientists believe the earth could soon lose its atmosphere in same the way that they think Mars once did due to the flipping or loss of its magnetic field as the core continues to flow and cool. I can't recall the name of the show but a quick Google show that Nova covered this in 2003. [pbs.org]

Re:Atmosphere? What atmosphere?

[SatanicPuppy]

Nah, polarity flips have been happening for a long time; if we lost our atmosphere every time, this planet would LOOK like mars...Anyway, Mars has no atmosphere because it's too small, not because it doesn't have a liquid core with the attendant magnetic field. Losing the magnetic field (which may or may not happen during a flip...Geologic data isn't precise enough to tell) could cause some problems with regards to the solar wind, but complete loss of atmosphere is extremely unlikely.

The average period between pole flips is about 250,000 years, so that will give you a pretty good idea of how often it happens, and how unlikely it is that atmospheric loss follows. For the curious, it's been about 800,000 years since the last flip, so we're due one.

Re:

[SatanicPuppy]

Yea, I was imprecise. Mars has an atmosphere, and even some pretty wild storms occasionally which we've gotten pictures of from the rovers.

What it really lacks is a dense atmosphere...It's only about 1/100th as dense as ours. It would be interesting if it were a little denser, because the atmosphere is almost completely CO2. In composition, it is much heavier than our primarily nitrogen atmosphere, and it does lend weight to the idea that the bulk of the "light" elements in the atmosphere have been stripped

Re:

[Vexor]

Everybody know that's Nuclear Winter will cancel out Global Warming.

Oh come on!

[ArcherB]

You mean I've been driving a Prius and spending my beer money on renewable energy only to have this happen!??!

Ob. Simpsons Quote

[phillymjs]

You mean I've been driving a Prius and spending my beer money on renewable energy only to have this happen!??!

Bart: Aw, recycling's useless, Lis. Once the Sun burns out, this planet is doomed. You're just making sure we spend our last days using inferior products.

~Philly

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Episode of Sliders

[celnick]

Didn't I see this when it was an episode of Sliders. For once, my watching an obscure science fiction show comes in handy. There was a parallel earth where a pulsar was heading towards earth and was gonna irradiate it and cause a mass extinction event.

Good show, had some hot geeky chicks on it for awhile.

Re:Episode of Sliders

[phillymjs]

The science on that episode (and most later episodes) was like the computer terminology thrown around in Hackers-- if you knew how wrong it was, it was almost painful to watch/hear. IIRC, the pulsars looked like empty toilet paper rolls with light coming out of the ends. And they didn't just irradiate Earth and leave it physically intact but lifeless, they made it blow up. Ugh, I'm shaking my head in disgust at the mere memory of it.

That show started off great and is 100% responsible for me getting interested in the alternate-history genre. Unfortunately, after the creator left they just resorted to stealing movie plots and it got downright ridiculous and pathetic.

~Philly

Don't tase me, bro ...

[BenBoy]

Had to be said ...

Well guys..

[ben0207]

It was nice knowing you.

Re:Well guys..

[gardyloo]

You must've been new here.

Re:

[ScentCone]

It was nice knowing you.

It's OK! Barack Obama will know what to do! If this thing can just... hold... off... until... next... year.

Maybe if we just planned an unconditional sit-down with the people running that star, they'd like us again.

Re:

[ScentCone]

Nah, It's probably better to ignore them. That will make them see things our way better then talking to them :-)

I suppose it's possible you haven't seen the fine documentary, Mars Attacks. Well you should, mister.

lead paint

[spikenerd]

I own a very old house with lead paint all over the ceiling. Since your survival depends on renting my basement, I think I'll start the bidding at $100,000/mo+utils, no pets.

Not my problem

[dasbush]

Further research would be required to determine if we are exactly in line with the axis of the system - but even if we are, we probably still have hundreds of thousands of years to come up with a solution, said Tuthill.

I'll just leave this little problem to my great(x1428) grandchildren to deal with.

Re:

[Macrat]

Slashdot readers don't have girlfriends and therefore don't have children.

No problem

[eln]

This is really no problem at all. I'm sure we'll find a critical flaw in the star that will allow us to destroy it in the nick of time. Possibly an exhaust port or something like that.

Re:

[explosivejared]

Yeah, we can just take the routine "nuke it from orbit... it's the only way to be sure" actions. Whew!!! Problem solved!!

Wait! What do you mean stars are basically just big long continuous nuclear reactions and nuking it only makes it worse?!

I agree with that guy earlier... we're doomed.

Re:No problem

[Arimus]

Sorry, exhaust port is out. I put some chicken mesh over the exhaust port and held it place with blutack and duck tape - nothing will dislodge the combined powers of the dark forces holding the mesh in place.

I've also trained the gunners as to what the rebel ships look like and what the empire ships look like together with electro therapy they now know what to shoot at.

The major commander on the death star will not be on board one of the fighters defending it.

And anyway when the heroes first arrive on the station they will be taken, under armed guard, placed against the nearest wall and shot. Following being shot they will have their heads chopped off while I watch giving no chance for them to stage a stunning escape and disrupt my evil plans. This death will lack drama will be simple, won't go wrong, will make a mess - but hey, I've got an army of evil underlings who can clean up.

Re:No problem

[ozbird]

Sorry, exhaust port is out. I put some chicken mesh over the exhaust port and held it place with blutack and duck tape - nothing will dislodge the combined powers of the dark forces holding the mesh in place.

No problem, we'll just use a frozen chicken.

Re:

[Arimus]

Argh.... foiled.

(Looking up and retching)

[Farmer Tim]

...but that moon has a thermal exhaust port. [goatse.ch]

Please God, no...

[d34thm0nk3y]

if years > 6000 and state == Kansas: Bad_Evolution_Jokes()

Re:

[andphi]

I think that function name is malformed. You forgot the verb. :) Should it have been getBadEvolutionJokes, putBadEvolutionJokes, listBadEvolutionJokes or modDownBadEvolutionJokes?

From TFA

[pedropolis]

"A 2005 study showed that a gamma-ray burst originating within 6,500 light years of Earth could be enough to strip away the ozone layer and cause a mass extinction." The system in question is 8,000 light years away. So it's all good. Besides, we all know Uranus gets hit first...

Yeah, I'm really gonna worry about this

[Master of Transhuman]

With time lags between events of 400-plus million years, I really have to worry about this happening in my lifetime.

Nitwits.

Re:

[Cyberax]

This start might have exploded 399 million years, 11 months, 30 days and 23 hours ago. So you'll its gamma ray burst will reach the Earth in an hour.

heh...

[DrWho520]

Well, at least is cooled the planet...

Impossible

[wumpus188]

John Titor would have warned us.

Re:

[__aailob1448]

Google John Titor for the funny.

Hmm let's think about this a sec...

[ZonkerWilliam]

At a distance of 8,000 light years from Earth, the pair of stars are a short hop away in galactic terms

And we are looking back 8000 years from today, since light took us 8,000 years to get to us. It will take another 8,000 years for a gamma blast to get to us. Something tells me were out of harms way.

Re:

[Pharmboy]

And we are looking back 8000 years from today, since light took us 8,000 years to get to us. It will take another 8,000 years for a gamma blast to get to us. Something tells me were out of harms way.

My god, man, think of the children! Someone please think of the children!

Re:

[ZonkerWilliam]

If it did then we would know about it, real soon. But, for every day it doesn't the more and more we move away from being lined up. If it happened 7000 years ago, it will be another 1000 years before we see anything.

Cosmos Magazine reports

[Anne_Nonymous]

>> Cosmos Magazine reports

Other articles include:

10 Fabulous Handbags for the Apocalypse
Is Your Man Cheating? Find Out With A Quantum Telescope.
Lose Weight Fast - New Dark Matter Diet.

Re:Cosmos Magazine reports

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Your Man Cheating? Find Out With A Quantum Telescope.

Careful. You might change the outcome by observing it.

Mass Extinction

[IGnatius T Foobar]

Only roaches, rats, and Steve Ballmer will live...

Re:

[wattrlz]

... or we could all develop super powers.

Re:

[sconeu]

Unfortunately, your superpower is the ability to grow your nails really fast.

Gamma Ray bursts in fiction

[blind biker]

Used in Stephen Baxter's excellent Sci-Fi novel Manifold: Space. [amazon.com]

One of the best hard-science Sci-Fi books I've ever read.

Isn't it obvious?

[PingXao]

To Americans, at least, it's obvious. It hates our freedom.

Not to nitpick

[techpawn]

but is it per cent or percent? Are we paying for this too?

"Paging Dr. Banner"

[Mr Z]

If this happens, don't make anyone angry. You wouldn't like them when they're angry.

--Joe

Since the gamma rays move at the speed of light..

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

How do we know that it hasn't already gone off, and the burst is due to hit us in say, 10 minutes?

Re:Since the gamma rays move at the speed of light

[Tetsujin]

How do we know that it hasn't already gone off, and the burst is due to hit us in say, 10 minutes?

Well, it's 20 minutes later, so I guess that theory is shot to hell. :D

Whew, thank goodness

[PalmKiller]

I was worried about global warming, now I know this event will cool the earth off, for the next dominate species.

The Bad Astronomer has covered this on his blog.

[jdoss]

Right here [badastronomy.com].

That's no moon...

[Ikcor]

it's a rotating binary star system.

Earth cooked, news at 11...

[southpolesammy]

So let me see if I've got this right...

If a GRB hits us in the next 10 years, the Earth is cooked and we're screwed. Game over.

If a GRB hits us in the next 100 years, the Earth is cooked, and although I'm gone, life on Earth is still screwed. Game over.

If a GRB hits us in the next 1000 years, the Earth is still cooked, I'm long gone as are the vast majority of my descendants, but maybe mankind (assuming we live that long) will have found the means to leave the planet and preserve itself. However, life on Earth is still screwed. Game over.

Ditto for 10k years, 100k, etc. Basically, there's very little we can do to save the Earth, and next to nothing we can do collectively to save ourselves, except for a few lucky individuals. Thus, the long term goal shouldn't be figuring out how to protect the Earth, but rather we should be figuring out how to preserve our legacy. Fighting against Mother Nature has proven time and time again to be futile.

Re:Earth cooked, news at 11...

[Astadar]

I think you're absolutely right. We narrowly survived the GWB that occurred in 2000 and will have lasted for 8 yea.... oh..

GRB...

Never mind.

Re:OH NOES

[NIckGorton]

Oh, wait, HOW long will it take this radiation to reach Earth from 6,500 light years away?

Next Thursday if it went Supernova 6,499.99 years ago.

Re:

[blind biker]

Yeah. It's not like we're going to see it much longer before we also feel it.

Re:

[SleptThroughClass]

Next Thursday if it went Supernova 6,499.99 years ago.

Oh, good. I have plans this Thursday but not next Thursday.

Re:OH NOES

[kemenaran]

The problem is that we see the star as it was 6500 years ago. As far as we know, it could have already exploded, and a good bunch of gamma rays be coming to us right now. So you were right, we're doomed ^^

Re:

[wattrlz]

I dunno, did it look like it was about to go nova any time in the near future 6500 years ago?

Re:OH NOES

[DrgnDancer]

And faster than light communications, otherwise the message will reach us at eh same time as the radiation.

Re:OH NOES

[BlackSnake112]

message: Ha Ha

Then the gamma ray hits.

Re:OH NOES

[stjobe]

I'd expect that there is at least some sort of indication that the star is nearing the end of its life.

We can try to figure out what it's burning. The star can burn hydrogen and helium happily for millions and millions of years, but when it runs out of that it's gonna start on carbon, which might last it a thousand years or so, and then it's on to neon for a couple of years, and then oxygen for a few months before finally burning silicon for a few hours before the big show.

In a stars lifetime, the collapse and supernova event may be nearly 'instant', but 10,000 years is nothing when compared to the overall lifetime of a star.

I fear that you are mistaken. The collapse and supernova event is for all intents and purposes instant even in our timeframe. The core collapses in as little as a quarter of a second, the core bounce is over in a millisecond and the explosion lasts for about ten seconds. Quote Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] (emphasis mine):

When the core's size exceeds the Chandrasekhar limit, degeneracy pressure can no longer support it, and catastrophic collapse ensues. The outer part of the core reaches velocities of up to 70,000 km/s (23% of the speed of light) as it collapses toward the center of the star. The rapidly shrinking core heats up, producing high-energy gamma rays that decompose iron nuclei into helium nuclei and free neutrons (via photodisintegration). As the core's density increases, it becomes energetically favorable for electrons and protons to merge (via inverse beta decay), producing neutrons and elementary particles called neutrinos. Because neutrinos rarely interact with normal matter they can escape from the core, carrying away energy and further accelerating the collapse, which proceeds over a timescale of milliseconds. As the core detaches from the outer layers of the star, some of these neutrinos are absorbed by the star's outer layers, beginning the supernova explosion.

So no, a star doesn't just randomly explode, but when it's time to go it goes. And if it's not too small, it's going to go with a really interesting lightshow.

I would imagine that a supernova is similar. Instantaneous from the 'point-of-view' of a star, but aeons to a human.

No, a supernova is most certainly a very brief event. The remnants of that event might linger on for "aeons", but the event itself is surprisingly quick even for a distant observer. Wikipedia again: "A supernova causes a burst of radiation that may briefly outshine its entire host galaxy before fading from view over several weeks or months."

Re:

[IndustrialComplex]

I was a bit sloppy with my post, thank you for clarifying the process.

The point I was trying to make was that a star just doesn't go supernova from a normal star with no 'warning' Of course, the last phase just before it reaches the Chandrasekhar limit is very short, and the subsequent collapse IS effectively instantaneous.

But it shows that the star does go through a 'series' of collapses. It was those collapses that I was clumsily referring to as giving off indicators.

For example, if the star did go nov

Re:

[sm62704]

You don't know that it didn't already go nova 8000 years ago.

Re:

[Amouth]

except we are looking at it from our point of view.. which is what it looked like 8,000 light years away.. which means it is posiable to that ithas gone off.. just .. the light and gama ray's havn't gotten here yet..

Re:

[sm62704]

Well, at least we don't have to listen to their damned poetry!

Re:

[sconeu]

You're forgetting about the photino birds [wikipedia.org].