Inventor to Launch Pop Bottle Rocket into Space 285
DrButts writes "An inventor in British Columbia wants to be the first to launch a pop bottle rocket into space. 'This could be impossible, but the CEO of AntiGravity Research already holds the altitude record for boosting an elongated plastic pop bottle — propelled by a bicycle pump, water and a bit of soap — into the air. Firing the ubiquitous, two-litre plastic container usually consigned to the recycle bin into space might create a whole new definition for space junk, but the dream keeps Schellenberg going.'"
Volume (Score:4, Interesting)
Since TFA speaks of A coke bottle, I assume we aren't allowed multi-staging. But some of the effects of staging could be achieved - I think - with different fluids. At the bottom would be a layer of mercury with some depleted uranium dissolved in it. Next is the water layer. Maybe the third layer would be a hydrocarbon of some sort ( perhaps chosen for it's ability to dissolve gasses under high pressure, thus using precious volume for both compressed air and reaction mass.
Personally, I don't want to be anywhere near this contraption at liftoff, when it is spraying tons of toxic heavy metals all over. But I do want to see the video on youtube.
Re:Volume (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Volume (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Volume (Score:4, Funny)
Are you going to bake a pi now, e?
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Re:Volume (Score:5, Funny)
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There are pills for that now. Didn't you get the email?
Re:Volume (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Volume (Score:4, Informative)
I know theory and practice often make fun of each other, but I would think that he could use the same type of metrics but with a soft bladder or something separating the peroxide from the catalyst and held in place by pumping the pressure on the opposite side to equalize the effects of the peroxide. Liquid isn't really compressible but the bottle's expansion could be the pressure point. And once it is launched by traditional air or air-liquid launch, the pressure drops on one side allowing the peroxide to flow through then the heat generation could and pressure would hold it back but still allowing it to expand as it hits the catalyst and effectively creating a rocket engine.
I don't know how much pressure could be harnessed this way but it is essentially the same concept of a jet pack. Except the weight to thrust ratio would be extremely different. You could end up with 4 or 5 pounds of fuel to a quarter pound object or to put it more excitingly, some older jetpacks or rocket belts generate about 185 lbs 280-300 lbs of thrust for over 21 seconds. In contrast and using some number conversions for impressively big numbers, that could be around 4800 onces of thrust for a 4-12 once object before fuel weight.
Of course I could be off here a bit, and I don't know how to translate thrust and burn time to distance covered. I suspect that has to do a lot with the total weight and some way to account for the loss from fuel spent and specific thrust sizes and pulses and all that jazz. And I'm also not sure if this type of fuel would be effective at altitude. And while this isn't technically burning, it might not be what he is looking for.
Re:Volume (Score:4, Funny)
Is that before or after he dumps the Coke out?
Uh.... right. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Uh.... right. (Score:5, Funny)
Seriously, though, I've met this guy before, and the definition of "space" might be a little loose, but crazy wins over reality, every time.
Don't discount him yet (Score:5, Funny)
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There's actually not much in the way of a rule that says something going into orbit has to reach 'escape velocity'.
That's a barrier for barking huge spacecraft, but if you went slowly, and gradually kept up the acceleration, you'd get into space, and with a little assistance from Earth's own gravitational well you could slingshot out and away into interplanetary space.
Re:Uh.... right. (Score:5, Informative)
No, but you have to get almost there. Low Earth Orbit is 7.8km/s, escape velocity is 11.2km/s. In addition, any non-escape ballistic trajectory that starts from the earth will form an ellipse that will eventually intersect the earth, meaning your rocket must accelerate sideways a fair bit once it's up there.
You need much less speed to merely reach space and fall back down, but the article clearly said 'orbit'.
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How long would it take? Probably bloomin ages, but that's not the issue.
Re:Uh.... right. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Uh.... right. (Score:5, Insightful)
And for that matter, there's nothing at least in the summary that says anything about orbit... just space. Technically, that refers to an altitude, not a velocity. Yeah, something launched would fall back down to earth if it didn't have enough momentum to break out of the Earth's gravity well, but that doesn't mean such an object didn't reach space, at least by the traditional definition thereof.
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a gravitational assist into higher velocity can be obtained by any spacecraft passing close by a larger body *provided* there is no excess of gas that might remove too much energy.
All you have to do is miss the upper layers of atmosphere. Now I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard to get up high enough, but there is no reason it has to be done quickly. All you have to do is keep going up. That could be by centimetres an hour (although that would be a bit slow).
lastly you don't have t
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That's right, and the idea isn't even new. It was used back in '79 as the premise of the TV show Salvage 1. [imdb.com] The ship, known as The Vulture, was built by a junk-yard operator to salvage junk left on the moon by Apollo.
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Re:But what if... (Score:5, Funny)
Layne
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Re:But what if... (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes because chopping down trees to create pamphlets to send to another planet is much more ecologically sound than sending them our plastic
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sounds like a defense contract (Score:5, Funny)
Re:sounds like a defense contract (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe after Canada becomes the 52nd State (right after Mexico and before Northern California - AKA Lincoln) he could give it a shot.
ah silly canadians (Score:3, Funny)
Re:ah silly canadians (Score:5, Funny)
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I think he was talking about you, based on your screen name. Wombats are Australian. Australia was a penal colony. Etc...
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Re:said "wandering wombat"? (Score:4, Funny)
For a Canadian, you sure are uptight. I didn't think it needed explaining, but it seems the OP was also trying to be funny by assuming you were, in fact, a wombat.
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Really, this is like a huge guy called 'Tiny' getting defensive about being asked why he's called that. If you take the handle of a distinctive animal that lives in one certain place get used to people thinking you're likely from there or at least t
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Québec certainly was, I have criminal ancestors to prove it! (My great great(n times) grandfather was deported to the colonies in 1624 for petty theft). But then is Québec really Canada at all? That's a whole other argument right there, "tabarnac"
Re:said "wandering wombat"? (Score:5, Funny)
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Worse, while his Member of Parliament sits for election and is keen on donations, his Senator [parl.gc.ca] is an appointed position. She's had her seat since 2001 and isn't going anywhere until 2024!
Re:sounds like a defense contract (Score:4, Funny)
Just needs... (Score:5, Funny)
Or dry ice (Score:2, Interesting)
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I don't know how he expects to reach space (Score:5, Funny)
Hey, 200 Meters ain't bad for a pop bottle rocket! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hey, 200 Meters ain't bad for a pop bottle rock (Score:5, Interesting)
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Then I remembered doing the same sort of shit. Good times...good times.
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Re:Hey, 200 Meters ain't bad for a pop bottle rock (Score:2)
Extrapolating the data points... (Score:5, Funny)
Several years ago, one of his "toy" rockets - actually a Kevlar-reinforced, experimental, single-stage missile pressurized with compressed nitrogen and packing high-tech instruments - flew to just under 379 metres.
Based on that research, Schellenberg is now convinced that it will be possible to put a bottle rocket into orbit.
Wow, 379 meters. With just a few more improvements, he could eek out the other 159,621 meters to Low Earth Orbit with no problem!
Reid
Re:Extrapolating the data points... (Score:4, Informative)
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Too true. I think that technically he doesn't need to achieve orbit in order to consider his bottle 'in space.' I'm not sure if space even begins at LEO, I was just throwing out a wild(-ass) guess.
I'm kind of surprised that, if this guy is an engineer, he doesn't just do the math. Find out the weight of the bottle, the rate of expellation of air, t
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Re:Extrapolating the data points... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Extrapolating the data points... (Score:5, Funny)
I can hear Nasa now (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can hear Nasa now (Score:5, Informative)
Nah, putting them in the recyling bin would be far too orderly, NASA has the military shoot them down with missiles and lets God sort out where the pieces end up.
Maybe we should combine our desires and use pop bottles to take out your failing satellites. Of course then the military doesn't get to use their toys... so that won't work.
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But probably someone has worked out t
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Quote from the man. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Quote from the man. (Score:4, Funny)
Perhaps managing IPC and dealing with zombies comes more naturally to them than dealing with tantrums and changing diapers.
Ony the facts could stop this intrepid adventurer! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ony the facts could stop this intrepid adventur (Score:2)
Now IIRC at about Mach 1.5, aluminum begins to soften. I suspect the plastic in a pop bottle melts at a somewhat lower temperature.
At what altitude? The one large difference between going up, and going down is where in the atmosphere you're achieving top speed. Going up, the atmosphere obviously gets thinner as you're going faster.
Anyway, I suspect he's already gone beyond the original constraints of using an actual pop-bottle, since his second experiment mentions "Kevlar-reinforced, experimental missile"
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"If you dropped a pop bottle onto Earth from a great height, say a million miles, it would splat (air resistance excluded) at about 25,000 MPH."
Nope. The bottle has so little mass in relation to its volume that even the "air" 50 miles up would start to slow it down. This is why, for example, no matter how high you jump out of a plane, you can't fall much faster than 125 mph unless you "streamline" yourself [tafkac.org].
The earth gets about 10 to 100 tons of material from space every day - much of this is dust that
Re:Ony the facts could stop this intrepid adventur (Score:2)
Re:Ony the facts could stop this intrepid adventur (Score:3, Insightful)
You're cheating. In real life air resistance will not do you the favor of excluding itself on the way down. I have no fear of being hit on the head by a falling empty plastic soda bottle from ANY height.
Re:Ony the facts could stop this intrepid adventur (Score:5, Informative)
Also note that I don't believe he'll make it either, and I've always considered 80km to not really be space flight. Just pointing out that the facts you mentioned won't necessarily be the ones that stop the adventure.
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MythBusters . . . (Score:5, Funny)
Re:MythBusters . . . (Score:4, Informative)
Impossible. It took about sixty to lift Kari.
I don't know... (Score:5, Insightful)
Entirely possible, without a doubt! (Score:2)
I have no doubt whatsoever that you could launch a 2-liter bottle into space.
Now, if you limit yourself to on-board propulsion, we may have a problem. But if you accept some form of external acceleration, say to 11.2km/s, then you can launch a soda bottle, or a rock, or a dead rabbit into space, for all the object's own composition matters.
Of course, it may not make it to orbit in
His company motto says it all (Score:5, Funny)
(Straight from TFA...)
Important Question TFA Did Not Answer (Score:2)
It will make all the difference in the world.
http://antigravityresearch.com/ (Score:4, Informative)
The guy's web site. I did a google search on "Mr Widget" bottle rocket and the results were all from news sites to do with this story. Searching on antigravity research was better.
4th of July Fun-ness (Score:2, Interesting)
If you spent any amount of time making and modding paper airplanes when you were a ki
Mythbusters tried this... (Score:4, Insightful)
In one of their recent episodes, Mythbusters researched using compressed air and water "bottle rockets". The highest flight to date of a compressed air and water rocket was about 500 meters, IIRC. And it was made from materials far stronger than a 2 liter bottle.
The fundamental problem, as Mythbusters showed, is that a 2 liter bottle just can't hold enough pressure for the impulse necessary to put the bottle into orbit.
Nice dream, though.
Re:Mythbusters tried this... (Score:4, Interesting)
In one of their recent episodes, Mythbusters researched using compressed air and water "bottle rockets". The highest flight to date of a compressed air and water rocket was about 500 meters, IIRC. And it was made from materials far stronger than a 2 liter bottle.
The fundamental problem, as Mythbusters showed, is that a 2 liter bottle just can't hold enough pressure for the impulse necessary to put the bottle into orbit.
Nice dream, though.
As far as the "fuel" limits, is there a rule that says he can't launch it out of a canon before releasing the pressure? Or use multiple stages? I see he sells a two-stage bottle rocket...
Hydrogen bottlw balloon (Score:2)
Team up with Japan!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Pop? Soda? Pop? Coke? (Score:5, Funny)
"It's 'soda', not 'pop'."
"It's 'coke', not 'pop'."
"It's 'pop', not 'soda' or 'coke'."
Fuck you lot, it's 'fizzy drink' and you know it.
So then, really... (Score:4, Interesting)
That makes more sense.
Re:So then, really... (Score:4, Funny)
I would call this guy a success already (Score:3, Insightful)
Makes his living selling toy rockets on the web. Who can read that without a trace of envy?
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The orbit one might have to use something other than a pop-bottle, but the cool part is the non-combustible fuel.
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Does it matter. Obviously he makes a living by being a salesman and a hay farmer. But the things he sells, are his own inventions, thus making him an inventor. I'm sure he makes some of them himself, which also makes him a craftsman. Creating bottle-rockets isn't exactly what I would call engineering, but if you want to call him an engineer, that's fine too, as he actually is educated as an EE. Anyway, what you should realize is that this guy is creating bottle-rockets and selling them because it's fun, not