Russia's New Cosmodome Approved 83
eldavojohn writes "You may recall discussing Baikonur, the Kazakhstan city rented by Russia that has been used as a launch site for quite some time. Today, Putin has just approved construction of Vostochny between 2010 and 2018 which will be positioned in the far east of Russia to complement the Plesetsk Cosmodrome in the northern part of the country. This is not bad news for Kazakhstan as the director of the Russian Federal Space Agency has announced they plan to operate this facility alongside Baikonur."
Long term, this is a good thing. (Score:4, Interesting)
A multinational space race (or even better, cooperative missions) benefits everyone, even if its the side effects of materials developed for aerospace programs being used for everyday life.
This is a gamble on Putin's behalf, but it can pay off big for Russia, because people will be contracting with them for launches of private satellites (new ones, and replacements for existing satellites.)
Cosmodome: 2 Astronauts enter, 1 Astronauts leave (Score:1, Funny)
Post-Soviet Russia just got a lot more interesting.
Re: (Score:1)
why, whats your logic behind that, because you give very good examples of WHY such technology races benifit us then proceed to try trash it based on nothing.
everytime man has been invovled in competition of this nature, he has produced better tech, and there's no reason to think we won't this time.
Re:Long term, this is a good thing. (Score:4, Insightful)
why, whats your logic behind that, because you give very good examples of WHY such technology races benifit us then proceed to try trash it based on nothing. everytime man has been invovled in competition of this nature, he has produced better tech, and there's no reason to think we won't this time.
Past performance does not necessarily indicate future results... it'd be naive to assume that throwing money at space will keep coming back with awesomely wonderful things, and there are so many things that we could be spending money on, research and otherwise.
Re: (Score:2)
Call it asteroid insurance. Some day Earth may face a big chunk of rock we will not be able to avoid. The one that killed the dinosaurs was big, but there is not much of an upper limit to the size of the rocks that fall from the sky and, while our civilization could survive something that size (even get rid of it, if we had the time), we may not be so lucky when it's our turn and out rock can be much bigger or faster.
And I am not limit
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Space based living will not become practical until in-orbit or lunar colonies become self-sufficient. I think it will probably require some kind of breakthrough in technology or economics, not just incremental improvements. Space mining is still too expensive.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That's not what the Russians seem to have in mind. First deputy prime minister, Sergei Ivanov has stated that "urgent measures needed to be taken to develop the country as a leading space power, rather than as a provider of launch services for other countries." and "Russia should not turn into a country p
Re: (Score:1)
You'll have no space to put anything, pizza will never get delivered and it'll cost a fortune and take ages to go out anywhere.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
Unmanned U.S. orbital launches have been conducted from KSC/CCAFS, from Wallops Island in Virginia, and from Vandenberg Air
Kazakh's tired of toxic threat (Score:2)
Russia is building a spaceport in the far east because Kazakhstan is weary of toxic Proton launcher first stages crashing in their territory. Proton's are loaded with UDMH, a dangerous carcinogen, and Nitrogen Tetroxide, a highly concentrated acid. Central Asia is strewn with spent first stages of Protons and Soyuz. Like Baikonur the new spaceport would be located above 45 deg N, which requires increased rocket performance to launch most payloads compared to lower latitude launch sites like Cape Canaveral o
Re: two space centers (Score:2)
cool names (Score:1)
*sigh* (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
My K-spellchecker thinks Cosmodome is OK, but not Cosmodrome, cosmodome or cosmodrome.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Huh? Why would anyone reading Slashdot care?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
[sic] (Score:1)
which this one in particular needs like seven of.
Re:lovelly[sic] (Score:2)
ISR (Score:3, Funny)
Good news (Score:3, Funny)
Trust me, they will deliver... (Score:2, Insightful)
I also know that when they finally deliver, the whole atmosphere will be met with very little fanfare unlike in the US.
I guess it's not in them to seek publicity unlike we in the west.
Now for those who might think this post is "flamebait", I'd like to remind them that the Soviet Union, much of which became today's Russia had and still has the biggest, heaviest and highest-capacity fly
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trust me, they will deliver... (Score:4, Informative)
IMO while awesome it is not that much of a technological achievement. It may be big, but it ain't revolutionary in any sense.
Now this http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1295104/M/ [airliners.net] is something out of a different league. It may not take a large load, but its take-off and landing requirements (a field only slightly bigger than a football pitch) are in the realm of the insane.
Same for some of the specs for this one: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1262070/M/ [airliners.net].
Both of these are so far ahead of anything in their class it is not even funny.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Despite what we in the west think about the Russians, I strongly believe they will deliver on this given their track record. I also know that when they finally deliver, the whole atmosphere will be met with very little fanfare unlike in the US.
That's because of a fundamental difference between Soviet/Russian space policy and American space policy. The Soviet space mission was always viewed as a military one, while the American space agency was a civilian organization. Therefore, there was always more fanfare around American launches, simply because NASA made itself more accessible to the public than the equivalent Soviet agency.
Now for those who might think this post is "flamebait", I'd like to remind them that the Soviet Union, much of which became today's Russia had and still has the biggest, heaviest and highest-capacity flying aircraft in service today. And this was put in service more than ten years ago...again, with little fanfare.
Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. The AN-225 [aerospaceweb.org] was originally envisioned as a special carrier for the ca
Re: (Score:1)
Tell me then why did Americans send a man to the moon in the first place?
Re: (Score:2)
We sent a man to the moon to demonstrate out superiority over the Soviets. However, that does not diminish the fact that our space program was conducted in far less secrecy than the Soviet space program. Thus, the current lack of fanfare around the Russian space program is due to the historic secrecy of the program, and not due to some kind of imagined modesty possessed by the Russian government.
Re: (Score:1)
Now if I could mod a post "strawman"...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trust me, they will deliver... (Score:4, Insightful)
Huh? Their track record over the last fifteen odd years is of one project after another that fails to materialize - or is delivered years late.
That would explain the endless stream of glossy presentations, especially from their space industry, promising ever more wonderful accomplishments. (None of which, as noted above, have ever amounted to anything.)
It's not that your post is flamebait, it's just disconnected from the facts. The AN-225 was put into service nearly twenty years ago in the Soviet Union - with a great deal of fanfare. It was then mothballed with the fall of the Soviet Union. When it was placed back into service, it wasn't Russia that placed it in service - but a private company. While it did recieve a great deal of fanfare in the appropriate circles, like all cargo aircraft it was soundly ignored by the media. Comparing it with the A-380 is comparing apples and oranges.
Again the disconnection with facts... It may not make the Western media, but it does the Russian each time it launches or lands.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Both programs were driven from the passion of just two men - Korolov and Von Braun - championing similar
I hope they deliver - but I don't expect it (Score:2)
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia's industrial and scientific capacity has been decimated. The criminal oligarchs who took over Russian industries invested in ya
Re: (Score:2)
I take it you never drove the original Zhiguli [wikipedia.org] then, or Moskvitch [wikipedia.org], or heavens forbid a Zaporozhets [wikipedia.org]?
To get a driver's license you had to study the workings of the car, and for a good reason - more than likely on a dark road, under rain, you'd have to open the hood and clean the contacts of the ignition (on Moskvitch) or to rearrange the wet rag on the fuel pump (Zhiguli) or just curse impotently (any ZAZ.) Very few Soviet ca
Russian politics...may not happen for a while (Score:4, Informative)
Note that the announcement comes one week before the Russian Parliamentary elections set for December 2nd. Putin is term limited as President but has vowed to run for Parliament and speculated that he could continue to rule as a strong prime minister.
What has actually been announced is a feasibility study to decide a location by 2010, and intentions to build start in 2018. The Amur Region that is named is the same one where Putin announced on February 26th, 2003 that he was opening a new road across Siberia and that 2008 it would be paved. That was coincidentally three weeks before the last Russian Presidential election. I have been across the Amur Highway this year (2007) and while a lot of good work has been done, there is no way the Amur Highway will be entirely paved in 2008, nor for that matter by 2010 (Putin's last announcement on the topic in 2006) or in my opinion by 2018.
So when I think of "track record" and I think of some of the engineering difficulties of the Amur Region (think permafrost, little infrastructure,...) and I put it in the context of Russian politics, then while this may eventually be built, I doubt it will be done by 2018 mentioned in the article. All that is promised so far is a study in 2010.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
As I stated in the parent posting, Putin's motivations for annou
Re: (Score:1)
get your facts accurate (Score:2)
The biggest flying aircraft was developed, tested, and manufactured in Soviet Ukraine, which became an independent state after the union went kaput.
No! Not entirely. The design was both Russian/Ukranian, engines were Ukranian, avionics are Russian and the landing gear, just like those of the Il-76 was from the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan. Wikipedia has an entry on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov [wikipedia.org].
As it is now, none of these independent countries can manufacture the Antonov independently, but Russia is taking a leading role in its manufacture, though Ukraine still has a pretty important role to play.
Re: (Score:2)
Now for those who might think this post is "flamebait", I'd like to remind them that the Soviet Union, much of which became today's Russia had and still has the biggest, heaviest and highest-capacity flying aircraft in service today
Indeed; and the craft it was purpose designed and built to lift was destroyed due to underfunding, poor maintenance and overall negligence. Eight people perished in this particular Russian space program disaster. [wikipedia.org]
Contrast that with the Airbus A380 that the [TV] networks appeared not to get fed up of when it made its first commercial flight.
Ok, but only because you insist: there was more than one A380 built and none of them have been destroyed in hanger collapses.
Re: (Score:2)
It is important to understand the life cycle of prototypes: they are made to perform usually one function, in a very specific time frame. After that is done they are useless. I am sure nobody shed a tear over the damage to the prototype Buran because it should have been cut into pieces and recycled long ago (but probably not a single bureaucrat had enough bravery to order it done.)
Think of it this way: you have a
Russia's New Cosmodome Approved (Score:1)
Of Course (Score:1, Funny)
What they didn't tell the media is that (Score:1)
1. comes cheaper with no rent to pay and
2. can never be denied us whatever the political situation in the world is
while being as close to the equator as we can manage it - Plesetsk is too far to the north.
I think once it's built and fully operational (that is manned flights begin to launch from there) we might drop Baikonur option - or perhaps turn it into museum.
Two rockets enter, one rocket leave! (Score:2)
Location? (Score:4, Interesting)
Is this site not intended for launching stuff into orbit, but merely intended as a landing site, or a sub-orbit launch site?
Re:Location? (Score:4, Informative)
The southernmost points of Russia are in the Caucasus, but that's a decidedly unstable area of the world, and rocket stages dropped off by things heading east would drop on Kazakhstan, which the Kazakhs obviously don't want. If you rule out the Caucasus, the next-southernmost points are at the North Korean border in the far east; there is a constant Russian worry that the Chinese might want to expand into Siberia if it's left empty, and so they'd like to build facilities there, especially the sort of facilities which set up clusters of skilled people who'd bring non-resource-dependent income to Amur.
The proposed site is Svobodny, which is just over the Amur from China, and not too far from the Komsomolsk-na-Amur rocket factory.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&sll=54.162434,-3.647461&sspn=8.188315,20.566406&ie=UTF8&ll=51.410771,128.19191&spn=0.272388,0.6427&t=k&z=11&iwloc=addr&om=1 [google.co.uk]
Obviously, an equatorial site would be better, and indeed there's a Soyuz pad being built at Sinnamary, in French Guyana, five degrees from the equator and about twenty miles from the Arianespace facility at Kourou. First launch from there will be late 2008, but it's only Soyuz so not particularly heavy lift, and I suspect the Russians might be less keen than EU nations at having their military satellites launched from French soil.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Also, you you consider 36N to be close to the equator?
Re: (Score:1)
Slightly off topic - (Score:2)
From what I can see on GE and googling, vast tracts off this 'city' are abandoned or destroyed sites.
Is access possible - on the sly or otherwise? Is it open space, except for around the new / active buildings? I'm curious!
Re: (Score:1)
Which is not surprising, since it was populated by engineers of all kinds, scientists and service personnel serving under official jurisdiction of MoD and ever watchful eye of KGB.
And of course it has been lavishly funded by the government.
What you see now is the result of Yeltsin's era typical neglect of everything that does
Re: (Score:2)
Cosmodrome!... (Score:1)
Um.. (Score:1)
Talk about well hung (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, that sounds like some huge condom. They are not lacking in self-confidence, are they?