Whose Laws Apply On the ISS? 344
Hugh Pickens writes "Whose laws apply if astronauts from different countries get into a fight, make a patentable discovery, or damage equipment belonging to another country while on the International Space Station? According to the Outer Space Treaty of 1967, ratified by 98 nations, states have legal jurisdiction within spacecraft registered to them. When the space station was assembled from modules supplied by the United States, Russia, Japan and the European Space Agency (ESA), partners rejected an initial proposal that US law should prevail throughout the space station. "It was agreed that each state registers its own separate elements, which means that you now have a piece of the US annexed to a piece of Europe annexed to a piece of Japan in outer space, legally speaking," said Dr Frans von der Dunk of the International Institute of Air and Space Law at the University of Leiden. So what happens if a crime is committed in space? "If somebody performs an activity which may be considered criminal, it is in the first instance his own country which is able to exercise jurisdiction," Dr. von der Dunk added."
Dr. von der Dunk? (Score:5, Funny)
We clearly need (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We clearly need (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We clearly need (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We clearly need (Score:5, Funny)
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If astronauts fight.. (Score:4, Funny)
..the winner makes the law. Duh.
Fingers crossed. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Fingers crossed. (Score:5, Funny)
Well, fortunately - (Score:2)
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Provided their hammer is bigger than yours, of course.
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It's a pun. "Above". Get it?
Crimes in space (Score:5, Funny)
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What, you expect truth to trump convenience?
Re:Crimes in space (Score:5, Informative)
The witch trials for instance. Witches float, so you tie the accused witch up to ensure she can't swim (because that would add a a second variable of uncertainty) and toss her into the nearest creek. If she floats, and is a which, you then haul her over to the town square to be burned. If she sinks and drowns... An unfortunate casualty of the justice system.
Re:Crimes in space (Score:4, Informative)
Um, no. It's lack of oxygen that you'll die from. You'll lose consciousness after about 15 to 20 seconds (due to deoxygenation of your blood on your lungs) and probably don't want to be resuscitated after more than 2 minutes unless you enjoy an existence at the mental level of a daisy.
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If they survive decompression, they must be guilty! If not, they're innocent.
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Re:Crimes in space (Score:5, Funny)
What else floats in microgravity?
Apples!
Churches!
Lead! Lead!
Mud!
Small rocks!
A duck...
Correct!
Re:Crimes in space (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually this is a popular misconception. A few hundred kilometres up the acceleration due to gravity is not much different than here on the Earth's surface. The difference is that the ISS is in freefall you you get apparent weightlessness - effectively all the objects are in the same orbit around the Earth and since orbital velocity is independent of mass it gives an impression of weightlessness. So actually an astronaut still weighs more than a duck in space but is unaware of this because they are in the same orbit. For true weightlessness you have to go a long, long way away.
Sorry that was probably more physics than you wanted to know but this is Slashdot!
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Sorry but this is very wrong. Using your definition then since all object accelerate equally under gravity all objects would have the same weight which is clearly not correct!
So, in the ISS I'd say you are weightless relative to the ISS... and so is the duck.
Weight is a force caused by gravity which is proportional to mass (hence the equal accelerations). Since in the ISS you still feel the gravitational pu
War of the Roses in space? (Score:4, Insightful)
What do you mean I can't have more air?
Fights on the ISS (Score:3, Informative)
With the possible exception of the temporary visitors, all the crews onboard the ISS, the Shuttles and Soyuz ships that service the ISS are all extremely disciplined professionals and have to behave as such at all times, especially since they are kept busy so much of the time, and their safety depends on their professionalism. These folks have been trained their whole careers to exercise great patience that it is second nature to them. I seriously doubt there are any "
I know ... (Score:4, Funny)
crime? what about birth? (Score:5, Interesting)
Ok, unlikely, but would it not rock?
Re:crime? what about birth? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, lots of people are able to claim more than one nationality as a result of birth; for instance, anyone born of a parent from one country that makes children of its citizens citizens by birth, that also:
1) has their other parent a citizen of another country that does that, or
2) is born in a country different than their parents country of citizenship, that makes people born in the country citizens by birth,
Can claim birthright citizenship in more than one country. IIRC, some countries force such a person to make a choice of one or the other at adulthood or give up the claim. I don't really think the ISS, despite having bits of many countries in close proximity, really adds anything new in this regard.
four places at once (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:four places at once (Score:5, Informative)
Re:four places at once (Score:4, Informative)
Not entirely true. It depends on the citizenship laws of each country involved. For instance, simply being born in a country doesn't automatically give you rights to citizenship (I was born in Germany, but neither of my parents are German citizens, so it's not even an option for me). I'm sure there are a few combinations of the above example where someone would have legal rights to citizenship in all four countries.
Re:four places at once (Score:4, Informative)
Former grants citizenship as a function of soil/territory and the latter through blood lineage. So, the method of deeming a person's citizenship would be heavily contingent upon the method used for determining the same.
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I fully plan on taking advantage of all three during my life.
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Good point, but it might depend on the module where the baby is born and the parents' nationalities. In most cases a child automatically receives either or both parents' citizenship. For example, children of US diplomats or military personnel born abroad.
I understand that when a child can claim more than one country, some nations allow dual citizenship while others require the person to choose one at age 18. And recently I read that Switzerland doesn't automatically grant Swiss citizenship to babies bo
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I wonder.. (Score:2, Funny)
Still think be more amusing to have it be whoever you're currently flying over. "3-2-1-Not Legal!"
Originally had thought it really didn't matter, seeing as they 'rigorously screen astronauts'...but after the Diaper Psycho incident, this might come to be of importance soon enough. Bugger of a wait for trial if something happens on a Mars mission though.
Earth to Cosmonaut Dmitry Sklyarov (Score:3, Funny)
Urgent! Do NOT GO into the module made by the United States.
Independence (Score:2)
Seriously though, if Earth's orbit gets any more populated, this is going to be an issue. If orbiting settlements ever get going, they might wish to break away and become self-governing.
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but but but (Score:2, Funny)
Oh wait...
Extremes (Score:5, Funny)
What happens if you have a joint in the Dutch module and some jolly fellow pushes you over in the Singapore module? Do you get spaced?
Million dollar pen? Use a pencil (Score:2, Funny)
United Nations? (Score:2)
- any discovery performed in a situation in ambiguous territory should be defined as an international discovery
- if a situation occurs that is considered beyond petty, then diplomatic channels should be used
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Directive B10.81 (Score:5, Funny)
pointless question... (Score:2)
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Section 7:
Space Station -- Canadian crew members
(2.3) Despite anything in this Act or any other Act, a Canadian crew member who, during a space flight, commits an act or omission outside Canada that if committed in Canada would constitute an indictable offence is deemed to have committed that act or omission in Canada, if that act or omission is committed
(a) on, or in relation to, a fli
How about (Score:5, Insightful)
Good question ... (Score:2)
You could say, whichever nation the ISS was above when the alleged crime was committed.
In reality though, it will probably come down to the astro/cosmo/whatevernaut that smuggled aboard the biggest gun.
right.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody's (Score:2, Insightful)
one dozen people in a floating school bus don't need laws about drivers licenses, aircraft operation, housing codes, or logging regulations (maybe one day we'll have Treeees Innnnn Spaaace, but not today)
it's not as if anyone can anonymously commit crimes up there, and if anyone gets really rowdy they can have a nice, cold, explosive time "out".
International waters (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:International waters (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:International waters (Score:5, Informative)
Passport aboard? (Score:3, Funny)
heh (Score:4, Funny)
Re:At least not in the US Module (Score:2)
In Space, no one can hear you scream Habeus Corpus. :)
At least not in the US where I believe Habeus Corpus has been suspended in a few instances, or am I wrong? Its difficult to keep abreast of the US's slow descent into a police state...
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I can only imagine the expression on the face of the government agent who tries to water board someone for the first time.
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And Belgium wanted nothing to do with me
Interesting Questions (Score:5, Interesting)
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If two astronauts from two different countries have an altercation in a completely different nations module, who's legal authority is applicable?
That one should be obvious - the owning nation's law. If an Aussie and a Brit get into a bar fight in an American bar, clearly American law prevails. Whatever exceptions to this case would clearly follow established precedent in terms of extradition and whatnot - this isn't the first time two non-citizens have broken the law on foreign soil (or deck plating, as it were).
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* Astronaut V is in Nation W's module, and shoots astronaut X, who is in Nation Y's module, but the bullet had to go through Nation Z's module to get there. I forgot the nation that manufactured the gun and bullets, but that shouldn't matter. (None of this should.)
Aliens from outer space (Score:5, Funny)
well its *called* (Score:3, Interesting)
So I guess U.S. laws would apply since its obviously a NASA project...
Oh wait, that would be in U.S. news sources... and in press releases from a U.S. space agency...
One solution... (Score:5, Funny)
2.) Place astronauts back-to-back in the center of the longest capsule on board
3.) If velcro boots are provided, order each astronaut to take ten steps toward the edge of the capsule. If not, approximate 10 seconds of floating in opposite directions before turning and firing.
4.) In the event the space station is still intact and both parties are still alive, review tape footage and declare the astronaut with the most matrix-like moves the winner.
Obligatory (Score:4, Funny)
Why the Law of Space of course... (Score:4, Funny)
Illegal region-free DVD player aboard the ISS (Score:5, Interesting)
The ISS has an illegal modded "region-free" DVD player, purchased by NASA and shipped up in 2001.
Properly, the ISS should have a Region 8 player. Those are for aircraft, cruise ships, and "international venues". Airlines have to buy Region 8 players and discs for in-flight entertainment. Why isn't the MPAA pursuing this? It sets a bad example.
Re:Illegal region-free DVD player aboard the ISS (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry Chuck (Score:2)
Simple solution (Score:2)
Chuck Norris. (Score:2)
Whose Laws apply on ISS (Score:2)
European law (Score:3, Informative)
As if Europe even was a single country with a common law. (Err, a law in common, that is.)
Things seem to be going that way, unfortunately (EU, get out of Sweden now, please!), but we're not there yet.
more interesting, who's ethics committee? (Score:5, Interesting)
Europe? (Score:3, Interesting)
Ok, anybody besides me that see an obvious question regarding this: which European states law apply in ESA's sections? There is no "Europe" when it comes to laws - each country have their own.
So which is it? English? French? German? Dutch? Italian? Spanish? Or another European law?
no "European" jurisdiction (Score:3, Interesting)
What's 10000 lawyers in low earth orbit ? (Score:3, Funny)
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Oh great - are you proposing it should be legal to carry a gun on the ISS then?
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While a lot of countries have strict laws limiting possession of guns, I recall reading that Canada *requires* light plane pilots flying over certain areas (or possibly anywhere in their airspace) to have a shotgun on board in case they crash in the wilderness. Not sure if this is actually true, but it makes sense that Soyuz would have firearms on board for the same reasons.
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Space Walker, Texas Space Ranger.
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Them with the gold, makes the rules.
--AC
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Probably a lawyer (Score:2)
Re:Probably a lawyer (Score:4, Informative)
Climate research for example has greatly benefited from the actions of the agency.
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Let the borg assimilate that.
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OK - the problem may be there but most actions that are considered a crime in one country are also crimes in other countries. For the few cases where there is a difference it may be a case for diplomatic dispute on earth. And even a successful psychological evaluation can let a person through that aren't really fit for certain conditions. Person chemistry is very important - especially in cramped quarters. Even if two persons goes through all tests with grand results they may be mismatching radically
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Sorry. We haven't yet contacted any alien species with sufficient tentacles for that to be a realistic scenario.
Re:We clearly also need... (Score:5, Insightful)