Justice Department's Bio-terror Mistake

destinyland writes "University professor and artist Steve Kurtz publicizes the history of chemical weapons with performance art pieces. The day his wife died of a heart attack, 911 responders mistook his scientific equipment for bioterrorism supplies. After he was detained for 22 hours, Homeland Security cordoned off his block, and a search was performed on his house in hazmat suits, they found nothing. Now they're prosecuting him for "mail fraud" for the way he obtained $256 of harmless bacteria."

Terror is winning

[Anonymous Coward]

Incidents like this and other such just prove that terror(ists) are winning. Post 9/11, everybody is still in panic.

Re:

[zxnos]

just proves that those who have 'power' cant be wrong...

Re:Terror is winning

[TarPitt]

Power without ethics IS terrorism

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

I hold that power, the special "right" to employ coercion (meaning physical force) as one's means, is unethical by its own definition. Imagine if the common man could posess that special right -- your neighbor for example -- I doubt you'd claim that such a scenario could possibly be ethical.

So what's so different about government? Government is, after all, nothing but a collection of common men. If all men are supposedly equal, then how did some men (government) obtain the ability to suspend the code of eth

Re:Terror is winning

[Bacon Bits]

No, power without ethics is tyranny.

Re:

[Sciros]

Wrong. Power without ethics is power without ethics. It may become despotism or a number of things, but it is NOT terrorism and to define terrorism in such broad (besides inaccurate) terms is to make terrorism seem less heinous and more common than it is. It also makes me question whether you are trying to get some political agenda across with such statements. There exist [many] unethical leaders who are not terrorists.

Re:Terror is winning

[dwarfking]

So by your definition, what is happening in Myanmar isn't considered terrorism because your definition only applies to the US? I guess US law enforcement over reacting and charging someone with a crime, who will get a day in court, is worse than when a known totalitarian regime actively kills people in public.

Re:

[sheldon]

So by your definition, what is happening in Myanmar isn't considered terrorism because your definition only applies to the US? I guess US law enforcement over reacting and charging someone with a crime, who will get a day in court, is worse than when a known totalitarian regime actively kills people in public.

I think you miss the point.

What is happening in Myanmar is a pure violation of human rights. The authorities of Myanmar are also arguing... "Well, they wouldn't have gotten shot if they had not made s

Re:

[polymath69]

Also because Myanmar-Shave just sounds silly.

Re:

[Venik]

I appreciate the education, but what I was really trying to say was: who cares? I really don't understand what this noise is all about. Suddenly, BBC and CNN became deeply concerned with the state of civil liberties in Burma. Like Burma wasn't a military dictatorship for the past forty five years.

Americans and Brits are up to their balls in trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan. But all I see in the news is Myanmar and Sudan. Seems like somebody is trying to shift public attention in the US and the UK from the qu

Re:

[SueAnnSueAnn]

Actually the terrorists are in our government.

This is one of over a hundred such cases.

Hale to the Fatherland.

Sue

Re:

[somersault]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hale [reference.com]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hail [reference.com]

If you're going to indulge in political satire, at least learn your fascist salutes please.

Re:Terror is winning

[kamapuaa]

Did you skip the part about the guy recreating 50's Germ Warfare experiments? This isn't an irrational paranoid panic response. I'd hope any government organization anywhere in the world would thoroughly investigate all recreations of Germ Warfare experiments. What would you suggest, the government just letting things slide?

It's not panic, it's just common sense.

Re:Terror is winning

[whoever57]

Did you skip the part about the guy recreating 50's Germ Warfare experiments?

Did you skip the part about them using harmless bacteria?

Re:

[markov_chain]

Harmless unless you have a specific type of DNA, in which case the bacteria cause a heart attack ;)

Re:Terror is winning

[Skreems]

Part of the case that the good Dr. still can't talk about publicly is that he was also a suspect in his wife's death, and hounded about this by the FBI as well. He's still under a gag order on this point, which is why the documentary mentioned in the piece re-enacts those parts of the story with actors.

Re:Terror is winning

[TaleSpinner]

No. Terrorism has already won. I sat there on 9/11, watching the news and crying. Crying for the innocent people who were murdered, yes, but also crying for the end of freedom. The end of civil rights. I knew at that moment that "liberty" would never again be anything but a hollow mockery of itself. I knew the gov't - to "protect" us - would strip us of the entire Bill of Rights and more besides. And that is exactly what they did. What RICO began, what the "War on (Some) Drugs" carried through, we, ourselves, through our government, have completed. And don't lecture me about the Republicans did this or the Democrats did something else. Both sides of the aisle voted for these things. Both share the blame.

As Franklin observed, those who would trade their liberty for imagined security deserve neither. And now we have neither, nor are we ever going to. There are times when I look at my 10 year old son and I am consumed with guilt at what I have brought him into.

Re:

[phiwum]

No. Terrorism has already won. I sat there on 9/11, watching the news and crying. Crying for the innocent people who were murdered, yes, but also crying for the end of freedom. The end of civil rights. I knew at that moment that "liberty" would never again be anything but a hollow mockery of itself. I knew the gov't - to "protect" us - would strip us of the entire Bill of Rights and more besides. And that is exactly what they did. What RICO began, what the "War on (Some) Drugs" carried through, we, ourselve

Re:Terror is winning

[BlackSabbath]

"There are relatively few days when we really notice the changes affecting us personally."

In most of the world's undemocratic regimes, life goes on as normal for most people. They get up, do their thing, come home, go to bed, and start all over again the next day. Most of these regimes are considered undemocratic and are on UN and State Department lists as human rights abusers.

Yes, life goes on as normal for most people, just like it did in Germany in the late 30's and the Soviet bloc countries before the 90's. Normal ... that is, until malice or circumstance force you to the edge of the normal curve and for some reason or other you come to the attention of those whose attention is most unwelcome. Then you get to notice the changes up close.

But hey - for your neighbours this will just be one of those "relatively few days when we really notice the changes affecting us personally".

If you've got 5 minutes lookup Martin Niemöller.

Lack of empathy among the governed is the greatest boon to those with dictatorial ambitions.

I call bunk

[huckamania]

This is not a case of society giving up any rights. You don't have the right to be above suspicion in you wifes suspicious death. You also don't have the right to be a moron with impunity.

Anyone see that cell phone add where a bunch of people doing different stuff all get an IM and rush off to some super market. They all act very suspicious and then do a cart race in the middle of the store. I think that ad should have a gun shot at the end. I know that will strike some of you as odd or bad, but w

Re:Terror is winning

[Vulva R. Thompson, P]

I did the same thing except with Gilbert Godfried's voice.

You definitely made the better choice.

Re:Terror is winning

[Foobar of Borg]

These *really did* look just like the weapons they thought they were.

The problem is that, after they discovered that he did not have WMD, they still tried to pin something on him. Why can't they just admit that they were mistaken and let it go? Welcome to America. When the police think you have done something wrong, then come hell or high water they will try to find something they can charge you with.

We're from the government...

[Tatarize]

We're from the government and we're here to help!

-- The sad thing is they butcher the government programs make them worse than having nothing... then argue that they should be disbanded because they don't work. FEMA was a fantastic agency under Clinton, on the ball and everything, they weren't posting guards to prevent help from getting to people needing help.

Re:

[QuantumG]

Are you trying to suggest the police are different anywhere else?

Re:Terror is winning

[QuantumG]

How does "looking for something to pin on someone you think is guilty" become "making people dissappear(sic)" exactly?

Cops everywhere work on the premise that you're either a "good guy" or you're a "scumbag". They've always worked on this premise, even in your precious United States. That's the culture of law enforcement. They're the "thin blue line" between civilization and chaos, remember.

That's why we have a legal system and don't just leave justice up to the police.

Re:Terror is winning

[BorgDrone]

That's why we have a legal system and don't just leave justice up to the police.

Unless they say you're a 'terrah' suspect and ship you off to guantanamo bay without any kind of trial.

Re:Terror is winning

[gosand]

Unless they say you're a 'terrah' suspect and ship you off to guantanamo bay without any kind of trial.

And leave you there. From Wikipedia: "Since the Afghanistan war 775 detainees who have been brought to Guantanamo, approximately 420 have been released. As of August 09, 2007, approximately 355 detainees remained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. More than a fifth have been cleared for release but may have to wait months or years for their freedom because U.S. officials are finding it increasingly difficult to line up places to send them, according to Bush administration officials and defense lawyers. Of the roughly 355 still incarcerated, U.S. officials said they intend to eventually put 60 to 80 on trial and free the rest."

Re:

[jackspenn]

Umm, those people were not picked up by the police in our country. They were picked up by our military overseas, many times in combat circumstances.

You do recognize that under your logic (or lack there of), every German officer, soldier and spy picked up during WWII, could not be held, without first being read their rights, shipped to the US, and then having before a Judge and been convicted of fighting in the German army.

When you consider to hold the trial, we would obviously had to ship back US, British

Re:

[WNight]

You do know that few of the Guantanamo prisoners were captured in combat (or even near it). Most of them were turned in by their countrymen for bribes.

Now, think about who you'd turn in for money. The actual freedom fighter who could strike back at the imperialist pigs, or the annoying guy down the block who plays his stereo too loud and threatened you for calling the cops?

If these really were combatants, it would be cut and dried. They'd go home when the fighting ends. But they aren't, and often there neve

Re:Terror is winning

[toganet]

Jose Padilla
Yasser Esam Hamdi
Kevin James

Were born in the US, and are just a few of the US Citizens in Gitmo [cageprisoners.com]
I'm not saying any of these men are innocent -- just that they deserve due process under the law like any other citizen, regardless their religion or hairstyle.

Re:Terror is winning

[Lars T.]

I'm not saying any of these men are innocent -- just that they deserve due process under the law like any other citizen, regardless their religion or hairstyle.

As do all the others in Gitmo, for that matter - even if they aren't citizens of the USA.

Re:Terror is winning

[cayenne8]

"That's why we have a legal system and don't just leave justice up to the police."

But, the police are the first line you encounter with 'the justice system'. They have the discretion of arresting you, warning you, or just letting you go if they find nothing wrong.

The trouble is...if they stop you or you are investigated these days....EVEN if they are mistaken, they now seem to assume they have to take you and and charge you with "something" whether it sticks or not, and now YOU have to take time, and often a good deal of $$$ these days, to go defend yourself.

This didn't really seem to be the way years ago. In the past, I've been let off for minor traffic offenses...especially as a teen. Going a little fast? "Slow it down son", and I was let off with a warning. Hell, once I'd have a few drinks...had some Taco Bell in the car and was heading home. Cop pulled me over....asked if I'd been drinking..I said no...the said don't lie to me, so I told him yes, I'd been to a party, and realized I'd not eaten, so I left, got food and was going home...and I was only blocks away from home. He asked my friend with me if he was ok to drive (actually he was maybe a bit worse than I), he saw on my license I was close to home, and told him to drive us home, and if he saw me out again that night...I was going to jail. We went straight home.

You think that would happen today???? No..they HAVE to charge you with something if they take the 'time' out of their shift to pull you over or question you. The previous example IS extreme I'll grant you, but, I'm just telling an extreme one to illustrate how lenient cops would be back in the past if you weren't really doing anything bad (rape, robbery, etc). And no, back 15-20 years ago...driving with a few drinks wasn't the uber-crime it is today...drunk driving, yes, but, they didn't do random roadblocks, and you didn't get pulled over unless you were weaving badly...or speeding (which I did to get through a yellow light at that time).

Re:Terror is winning

[davetd02]

It seems too easy to play the "OMG, government overeaching!" card here.

Look at what actually happened. He created an art project designed to look like a biological warfare project. His whole POINT was to make it look like it was dangerous. Having his house searched should be a sign that he succeeded in his goals. If the police walk in to find something that exactly replicates a biological warfare setup, I should hope that they stop and call the experts before casually dismissing it. The only difference between his project and something deadly was the fact that he used harmless bacteria. The difference in bacteria was completely invisible to an officer on the scene and possibly even to a biology expert without testing. He should take it as a compliment that his art project worked well enough to fool the police. The search of his house was definitely erring in the right direction, especially given that there have been biological attacks through the mail in the US [wikipedia.org].

The mail fraud charge is a closer case, but it's far from obvious based on a one-sided article that it's baseless. The American Type Culture Collection is a research system, not a toy. They provide cultures that range from harmless to deadly, and they understandably don't sell their wares to any idiot who walks in off the street. There's a reason why I can't just all up and place an order for 50 ml of HIV. Even something that's only mildly dangerous -- maybe E. coli -- can result in some nasty accidents if mis-handled. To order from the ATCC, "You must be able to demonstrate that your expertise and your institution's facilities are appropriate for handling biological materials." [atcc.org] That seems like a pretty good common-sense restriction. If you don't have the appropriate facilities to handle biological materials the ATCC won't sell them to you. If our artist friend lied in order to trick the ATCC into thinking that he worked for a university that had biological facilities then that seems like mail fraud to me. Sure, in this case the whole thing got shut down before anybody got hurt, but that doesn't lessen the importance of maintaining the integrity of the ATCC system. Saying "he shouldn't be punished, nobody got hurt" is like saying "I shouldn't get a speeding ticket, I didn't hit anybody." The restriction on the ATCC is legitimate and he broke it, apparently by lying in an attempt to deceive them. That's fraud if true.

Let's see a more balanced source.

Re:Terror is winning

[Frantactical Fruke]

Mistaking an artist
who works in full view of the public,
whose work can be found in a minute's googling,
who documents every step he takes,

for a terrorist
who might be expected to make at least a token effort to keep his doings secret, no matter how inept he is,

is pretty idiotic.

These are face-saving measures, nothing else.
And if, in mailing out harmless bacteria to a person, the institute did not at least google his university and status, to make sure he was permitted to receive said harmless bacteria, Mr. Kurtz did the authorities a favor in uncovering sloppy security procedures at said institute, which should then be the party requiring prosecution instead of Mr. Kurtz.

But perhaps you think that journalists who smuggle guns on airplanes and then reveal the flaws in airport security to the public should be thrown in jail as well. If intentions don't count, then every tank truck driver carrying hazardous substances who has an accident should be prosecuted as a terrorist.

Re:Terror is winning

[rs79]

My initial reaction to this was "oh god poor bastard". But after reading the indictment it's pretty obvious to me that want to send a message: "if you order bugs and aren't bona fide, you're going down.

From their point of view he could have ordered any bug.

Plus, he ordered two bugs he thought were harmless and then by his own admission "turns out one is not so harmless and can cause pbuemonia".

Is he being made an example of? Probably.

Is it warrented? Tough call. Might this make any other bio prof think twice before ordering bugs for some purpose not what they claimed? Probably.

Will this stop a bio terrorist? No.

The liability for the USG is pretty big here. Somebody goes to see his show then gets pnuemonia, then dies. The investigation reveals an artist surrepticuously ordered bacteria breaking all sort of safeguards and rules along the way. He could have used flourescine powder not real bacteria and just as effective a demonstration

Would it seem reasonable to you that the USG's response in this case would be "yeah it happens". Or, if it were, say your daughter who died would you want them to "do something" like maybe punish the bio-guy who flat out violated the terms and conditions under which they were able to get the bugs?

The govt is a big dumb machine. It has rules. Break them and you really can't expect nothing will happen.

I can't say I feel sorry for these guys. I appreciate their ideas and work, but this was just callously stupid. I doubt he'll get 20 years but my guess is they won't get off scot free. And I'm not sure they should.

Re:

[tmosley]

Pnuemonia is caused by Pseudomonas aeurgenosa, which is present on the skin and could be isolated by anyone with just a little bit of microbiology experience. I guess that makes us all terrorists now. Hell, most of us have even worse stuff crawling around on our skin, bugs that could kill if they got into your body and multiplied, but he body is designed to defend against them. Just having them around in a vial is no more dangerous than leaving a stool sample in a closed container on your table. This ca

Re:Terror is winning

[kevinbr]

"......ne who thinks its artisitc to recreate a WWII era germ warfare experiment by shooting (even "harmless") bacteria at gunea pigs off the isle of lewis desreves everything they get in my opinion......."

How nice of you to believe in Laws and Justice. So if your neighbor thinks you are a whack job and calls the police, should we defend you or agree with your neighbor that you deserve whatever the law can dish out.

At some point in everyones they could perform some action that some other person classes as "whackjob".

That is why we have the rule of laws, not the rule of your personal opinion.

Re:

[haeger]

If they didn't pin something on him he would be able to sue, no?
This way, if they can make anything stick, he can't sue them for wrongdoing.

But what the hell do I know. I'm not even american.

.haeger

Re:

[anagama]

I agree that people scare stupidly easily (see: boston) but this isn't a good example.

So it seems that unless you are a pot-bellied, glued-to-the-tube, backyard BBQ, All American meat head, there's no place left for you in the good 'ol US of A. Before we know it, all the smart people, or people with different ideas, will be in jail or litigated into bankruptcy and living under bridges where the cops can more easily harass them. I'm so proud to be an American -- now where's my remote?

Re:

[markov_chain]

So where's the next geek haven? Canada? China? Taiwan? Japan?

Re:Terror is winning

[Dak RIT]

I picked Taiwan. Most of the population here is still actively fighting for ever-increasing rights.

how did he commit fraud?

[timmarhy]

What was in the package and what was claimed to have been in the package are identical... that's not fraud.

Re:

[Xonstantine]

Uh, the fraud was probably misrepresentation of either his credentials or the purpose of purchasing the bioligical sample.

Re:how did he commit fraud?

[ivan256]

The "fraud" was actually probably another case of prosecuting somebody who should walk because the authority in question feels they need a conviction to justify their investigation.

It's the same stupid reason we're going to try to send a perfectly innocent college student to jail for wearing blinking lights on her shirt to the airport.

The search and investigation were probably justified. The prosecution almost certainly isn't. When did we forget that it's OK to do an investigation which turns up no evidence of guilt?

Re:how did he commit fraud?

[Christopher_Edwardz]

When did we forget that it's OK to do an investigation which turns up no evidence of guilt?

Right around the time "probable cause" made it OK to ignore the constitution and [investigate|terrorize|go on a fishing expedition with] anyone the powers that be don't like.

This would also be right around the same time that the whole "double jeopardy" thing got worked around by filing state charges and then federal charges back-to-back or after losing in one arena.

The "fraud charge" gambit probably references some technicality in WHY he wanted them evil-smarty-things that no honest (stupid|docile|sheep) citizen would want.

The government's agenda for a while has been Citizen = stupid. After all, no citizen should be able to create or research or learn anything without A) A university to pay money to or B) a large corporation in which to be enslaved, right?

C.E.

Re:

[pipingguy]

because the authority in question feels they need a conviction to justify their investigation.

If "authorities" are so fragile that they cannot admit that they made a mistake (or at least apologize and move on, mumbling something about "we had to be sure") there's a real problem.

Perhaps admitting error is a sign of weakness to some people. To me it's a sign of strength and character.

Wearing blinking lights attached to a strange-looking device to an airport as a publicity stunt for an art project is an

Re:how did he commit fraud?

[misanthrope101]

When did we forget that it's OK to do an investigation which turns up no evidence of guilt?

Whoa there, buddy, back up a bit. Investigations cost taxpayers money. Offices with low conviction rates don't get budget raises. Cops without a lot of conviction notches in their belt don't go on to become successful politicians. When all is said and done, investigations serve more purposes than just investigating what happened. You're acting as if the most important concern is making sure the government doesn't lock up innocent people. That's a bit old-fashioned, don't you think? Haven't you ACLU types done enough to weaken this country?

Re:

[2Bits]

But that's not important whether there was fraud or not. What is important is, the government made a snafu, and there is no way they will say "sorry". So, to save face, they push the charges on. The question is, how far will they go?

Re:how did he commit fraud?

[Odin's Raven]

What was in the package and what was claimed to have been in the package are identical... that's not fraud.

The fraud claim wasn't about the contents of the package - instead, it was based on how the order was placed. According to an article on AlterNet, "The $256 Question" [alternet.org] :

[Steven] Ferrell, a geneticist and professor at the University of Pittsburgh, allegedly provided Kurtz the organisms for use in an artwork, rather than using them in his own research, thereby violating an agreement he had signed when he purchased the cultures for $256 from the American Type Culture Collection (ATCC).

I think that's an accurate description from Kurtz's point of view, since I found the Alternet article via a link on the Critical Art Ensemble Defense Fund's press release page [caedefensefund.org].

So yeah, seems like there was mail fraud, but in a technically-correct-but-really-lame sense of "fraud" that reeks of desperation to pin something - anything - on Kurtz.

Re:

[timmarhy]

Gee i sure am glad they are on to that. forget those real terrorists, focus on nailing this guy for mail fraud!

Sore Losers

[The MAZZTer]

Our gov't reminds me of my little brother. Well not so little anymore, but he still accuses me of cheating every time I win a game. We need more mature people in there!

Re:Sore Losers

[Max Littlemore]

More mature people will begin to question why we are required to fight wars with other countries, why we continue to get deeper in debt fighting other countries , why we critisize other countries before our own in election speeches.

There, fixed that for you

blinking lights, everyday life forms in test tubes

[shbazjinkens]

I'm always scared of the day that someone finds my electronic test equipment and somehow connects it to my egg hatcher then creates a terrorist plot.

I think this one's an incubator sir.
For biological agents?
I believe it's used to hatch eggs, sir.
Eggs can be used to cultivate biological agents, proceed with the anal probe.
He does have several dozen chickens outside...
Damnit, follow orders or the terrorists win!

Depends on a context.

[megaditto]

Egg hatcher at a farm is not the problem. But if someone finds an urban apartment stuffed with egg hatchers, Petri dishes, vacuum pumps, and high-speed milling equipment along with some photocopied manuals in Arabic, I would have that observer drop a dime on you as fast as it falls...

And so was this arts professor SOL: Imagine YOU were the (non-specialist) rescuer that saw a woman go down and die in a house full of makeshift but specialized microbiological equipment whose owner is jittery to the max, and claims to be an artist, and cannot describe the equipment's purpose?

Same for the idiot girl wearing the LEDs: handling the bricks of modelling clay out at an airport is not what a blinkenlights dork normally does. Not after the two planes blew up because of women carrying "modelling clay" a few years ago.

Dickhead

[Max Littlemore]

along with some photocopied manuals in Arabic, I would have that observer drop a dime on you as fast as it falls...

And shit for brains.

Do you wonder why Americans and the "free world" are threatened with terrorist activity? I mean it obviously couldn't have anything to do with how you select arbitrary groups of people around the world, demonize them to make it appear moraly okay to rob them, persecute, terrorise them and kill them to further your interests?

Could it be that so many of your most vocal and prominant figures are so obviously either corrupt or stupid? Or the fact that you insist on challenging other nations for their transgressions with regard to international law and being the world's police force while your own agencies completely disregard the rule of law, as this case highlights?

No, it's probably because every one else is jealous of your freedom.

Big fucking rant here, but I am so sick of seeing absolute shit like that re-inforcing propaganda on a site that is supposed to be a bit more intelligent than the usual fare. Terrorist manuals are avaliable in many languages. Copies of the SAS handbook, anarchist cookbook, etc are out there and they are not in arabic.

I personally feel safer about Iran having a nuclear program than I do about the US having one. How many wars have Iran started in the last 50 years? How about the United States? In those wars, which nation has used WMDs? Which nation has supplied more WMDs to other nations to fight proxy wars? Which nation has taken a decade to go from cooperation to war with at least two former allies?

Sure, Iran has threatened Isreal, but Isreal is a state born from terrorism with a total lack of regard for international law. It is a state that continues to commit human rights abuses on the population it has displaced through the theft of land. It has developed nuclear weapons, refused to sign the NNPT and given it's total disregard for the humanity of any nation around it, and the fact that Iran supports the Palestinian people, I think it is much more likely that Isreal will be the agressor in any nuclear exchange in the middle East. I support Irans nuclear program if for no other reason than to keep Isreal in check.

Your own government commits human rights abuses and supports foreign governments that commit human rights abuses. The most extreme abuses are of course reserved for non citizens, but I believe in the rule of law and a crime is a crime. Please fuck off with your propaganda, it insults my intelligence. And don't come back with that fucking US centric democrat voting liberal shit. I don't understand your political divisions and I don't want to. My opinions are my opinions, this post is predominantly fact.

Sincerest apologies to any intelligent americans who can see through the propaganda but feel insulted by the strong language in this rant.

Re:

[KevinIsOwn]

For someone calling other people stupid and claiming to have such a grasp of the actual facts, it would do you service to actually consider the facts regarding Israel's creation and not call it a terrorist state. The creation of Israel was far from ideal, but it was also far from terrorism. (Any logical and even handed consideration of the state's formation acknowledges major problems with Arab leadership during that time period, mainly the fact that they went directly to war)

While you have many points in

Sounds about right

[FoolsGold]

If they can't charge you under the original accusation, they'll simply find something they CAN charge you with, to save face.

Heavens forbid they apologize for putting him through hell. Oh no, can't have that. That would be a sign of weakness.

Re:

[TheRealMindChild]

It's right outside your door... NOW TESTIFY!

Like that "Hoax device" BS.

[Etherwalk]

I recognize the merit in, when a legal search is conducted, allowing the use of truly coincidental material found to charge someone with a crime. So long as the search was legal and reasonable. (Drumming up happens too much, of course.) That being said, this smacks heavily of abuse of the law, in a way related to the "Hoax device" BS about the Breadboard incident a few days ago: prosecutors or cops seeking to charge someone in order to justify the fact that they've detained the person, looking for a crime to charge a particular person with rather than observing a crime and charging the person responsible for it.

IANAL, but oughtn't that to be illegal?

Re:

[thatskinnyguy]

IANAL, but oughtn't that to be illegal?

IANAL either, but I know it is illegal.

And then this hits the media...

[thatskinnyguy]

Dear Mr. Kurtz,

Our bad!

Sincerely,
The Department of Homeland Security

Re:And then this hits the media...

[fireman sam]

You forgot:

P.S. We are still going to charge you with something.

Re:

[thatskinnyguy]

and...

P.P.S. Our bad for that too. But lets just keep this between us eh?

Mail Fraud eh?

[Jarjarthejedi]

As per the main story, the difference between 'Harmless' bacteria and deadly ones is pretty darn slim and hard to tell if you're not an expert in the field. This isn't the same as most other situations as it's organic, and organic things are complex, and complex things are hard to examine to see if they're dangerous or not. They shouldn't have been so harsh on him, or so overzealous in the raid, but I don't see any problems with them testing the stuff. He admits that he was recreating germ warfare experiments from the 50s using different bacteria. He says the bacteria isn't harmful, but his rig is similar to one used on extremely harmful ones. So...we should just trust him that the bacteria aren't dangerous? Circumstantial evidence was heavily on the government's side here, anyone preparing to recreate germ warfare experiments should be looked at closely, even if they claim to be using harmless bacteria.

Now again, they should not have handled it the way they did. They should have been a lot nicer and lest gung ho about the whole situation, but they should have, and did, handle the situation, and that's good.

As for the Mail Fraud charge...I wonder what the story behind that is. That I can see in the article he never denies that he committed fraud, nor confirms it, so it seems entirely possible that they happened across this and decided to prosecute him for it, and it's also possible that they're just trying to hit him with something to make it look like they accomplished something. There's not enough info to really tell...

Re:Mail Fraud eh?

[QuantumG]

It's a crazy opinion these days, because everyone is so chicken shit, but until he actually harms someone, he should be free to do whatever the hell he likes.

Re:

[TheRealMindChild]

Tell me that when it is your family that dies from his "WHOOPSY!"

WTF

[Stickerboy]

but until he actually harms someone, he should be free to do whatever the hell he likes

It is a crazy opinion, and it has nothing to do with the case.

So I should be able to breed anthrax in my home, just because I love growing anthrax bacteria?

How about if I'm just curious to know if I'm able to weaponize anthrax spores into a dry powder, so I just do it?

On a more everyday note, I guess it's OK for husbands to hold up a gun and threaten to kill their wife and kids if she leaves him, as long as in his mind he

Re:

[QuantumG]

It is a crazy opinion, and it has nothing to do with the case.

If you say so.

So I should be able to breed anthrax in my home, just because I love growing anthrax bacteria?

Yup.

How about if I'm just curious to know if I'm able to weaponize anthrax spores into a dry powder, so I just do it?

Yup.

On a more everyday note, I guess it's OK for husbands to hold up a gun and threaten to kill their wife and kids if she leaves him, as long as in his mind he knows it's just a big joke.

Hey, it's left field calling, they want their ball back.

Or what about if he just shoots and misses her? No harm, no foul, right?

Queue "firing a gun into a crowd" argument.

Is it really so hard to understand? Freedom is better than security.

Re:WTF

[15Bit]

With freedom comes responsibility. So yes, maybe you should have the right to grow and weaponise anthrax at home, but your neighbour should also have the right be safe from catching anthrax due to your incompetence in handling said material. Implicit within your freedom is a responsibility towards your neighbour (and everyone else). This is why (in theory) you CAN grow anthrax at home, provided you fulfil all the requirements for a license to run a biotech research establishment.

Re:

[Solra Bizna]

until he actually harms someone, he should be free to do whatever the hell he likes.

Okay. I'll just amass tanks of aerosolized Ebola until I save enough money to buy a plane with enough fuel to dump it on every bit of inhabited land on the planet.

-:sigma.SB

Re:

[alshithead]

This seems to be pretty typical of many local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. Spend lots of money and time on an investigation and then once you realize that your main goal has no valid facts supporting it, find at least something minor in order to put the victim on the defensive to hopefully stave off lawsuits and bad publicity. I would call it saving face and defense by offense.

Only the best run departments will say they made a mistake and apologize and then try to work with the victim to

This story is very very very very very very old.

[rafael_es_son]

Like three years old [washingtonpost.com].

Re:This story is very very very very very very old

[Nasarius]

And unfortunately, it's still very very ongoing. The mail fraud charges are new, IIRC.

Re:This story is very very very very very very old

[HoboMonkey]

And therein lies the story. They're still at it three years later. Riveting, no. But it is newsworthy when the government seems to abuse its' power and decides to continue to do so for years rather than admit to being wrong. Note that I said newsworthy, but not new.

This is what happens

[Trikenstein]

when you can't admit that you overreacted.
They have to move forward in an attempt to stave off lawsuits.

In the industry...

[Shadow Wrought]

This is known as the "Boston" response.

Re:

[TooMuchToDo]

"Square the Quad-Laser and you have, behold: The Quad-Glaser."

Can you hear me Boston? Let me turn it up for you.

Tea

[flyingfsck]

Hmm, there must be something in the water in Boston that causes the people to go nuts - maybe it is tea leaves...

In Soviet Russia...

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember when we used to make fun of Soviet Russia? Well, in NeoCon America, Soviet Russia makes fun of you!

This is why the US is falling behind

[Anonymous Coward]

The tinkerer's spirit was a big part of what made this country great. Now, if you're an electronics or chemistry hobbyist, people think you're a bombmaker; if you build and fly model rockets, you're suspected of trying to produce some kind of missile; if you've got a microscope and some test tubes, you're assumed to be manufacturing anthrax.

When perfectly innocuous activities make people go totally apeshit with suspicion of their neighbors, the terrorists win.

What really grinds my gears, though, is how common sense goes right out the fucking window... if this guy had anything to hide, why would he have allowed the authorities to see it? If he was up to no good, he'd have dragged his wife's body into the yard and told them she keeled over tending to the garden or something, and never let the EMTs or whoever in the damn house. Failing that, he'd at least have taken the time to hide the dodgy stuff first before making the call-- "I was taking a nap, and when I woke up, she was dead!"

No. Instead, they're thinking, "Wow, what a lucky break, this terrorist invited us in to see all his incriminating terrorist supplies! Homeland Security FTW!"

Fucking morons.

Re:

[markov_chain]

Hear, hear. If Feynman pulled the kind of shit today that he did during WW2 in Los Alamos, his ass would be in Guantanamo by now. What happened to the greatness of the WWII generation? Do we need a war to wake people up?

Re:

[RAMMS+EIN]

``Do we need a war to wake people up?''

No, we needed to delude people so we could go to war. "Weapons of mass destruction" "mushroom cloud" etc.

Re:

[langelgjm]

The tinkerer's spirit was a big part of what made this country great. Now, if you're an electronics or chemistry hobbyist, people think you're a bombmaker; if you build and fly model rockets, you're suspected of trying to produce some kind of missile; if you've got a microscope and some test tubes, you're assumed to be manufacturing anthrax.

It's not just tinkerers, either. Note that they also confiscated "posters with 'suspicious' Arabic lettering on them." This just made me laugh. If you don't know Arabic

A sad indication...

[rindeee]

This is indicative of our legal/law enforcement mindset (or what it's becoming) in our society. I am a staunch (and by staunch I mean I loath the current Rep party and must consider myself an independant) conservative. Anyway, some of you might have read a while back that a group of Hash runners (as in the Hash House Harriers running club) were arrested for marking their urban trail with flour. Why? Someone saw the 'white powder' on the ground and of course assumed that it was a terrorist bio-weapon attack of some sort. The HAZMAT guys were sent. The flour was discovered to be just that. The problem is, once the authorities got their teeth in this, they wouldn't let go. Rather than chuckle and go their merry way, they charged the 'offenders' with Breach of the Peace in the First Degree...a Class D felony. This whole story is known as the Hamburger Hash Affair. To contrast this, I have spent the last year and a half living in a very out of the way part of the middle east. Americans (of which I am one) are not liked here of course. One day while on a hash run, myself and the other Hare were laying track (using flour) and the local police observed us in action. They IMMEDIATELY stopped us and began rather intense questioning. Once we explained what we were doing and showed them it was okay by tasting the flour, they let us go and even wished us luck. Somehow it seems like a little role reversal here. We seem (as a society) to have adopted the "bust'em for somethin'" mentality. I don't advocate letting people get away with crimes, but this is getting ridiculous.

Re:

[tietokone-olmi]

It's like in the Soviet Union. The cops acted, and now they must act as though they weren't acting for nothing. In order to save face, they're willing to drag anyone through any amount of shit, including jail time and absurd fines, just to seem godlike and 100% precise in everything they do. (Which is in itself absurd, since perfection is by definition unattainable.)

Defeat of Terrorism?

[lancejjj]

University professor and artist Steve Kurtz publicizes the history of chemical weapons with performance art pieces. The day his wife died of a heart attack, 911 responders mistook his scientific equipment for bioterrorism supplies.

My neighbor puts on the same kind of show - you know, another one of those performance art pieces about the history of chemical weapons. It seems like no one attends his performances.... he says it has something to do with the feds scaring people away.

At first I didn't believe him, but after reading this story, I'm not so sure.

Is this freedom?

[pembo13]

Is it really freedom if the authorities can simply switch charges against you when their primary charge doesn't work out? Like this terrorisms converted to mail fraud? Or arresting someone for resisting arrest? Keep in mind, that this is what is purposely being exported to the rest of the world.

What a maroon

[MillionthMonkey]

Why would you pay $256 for bacteria? Just buy $1 worth and let each bacterium divide eight times.

Do it again and you've got $65,536 worth of bacteria which is serious money.

Re:What a maroon

[Whatsisname]

I think you mean $100,000

Something of Interest from the defense website

[butlerdi]

A series of very unfortunate events bestowed on the FBI a reason to investigate Steve Kurtz. They found material critical of corporate capital and its uses of science, and, where relevant, of U.S. policy. Like most politically motivated people, for Kurtz the point of producing such material was to publish it; the FBI could have found the same material in many places had they been looking, because its legality is a cornerstone of our society. We don't know if CAE was already being monitored, but circumstances put them under the government's scrutiny as could happen to any of us. Given the excuse and the complete authority to investigate every aspect of Kurtz's life, the U.S. Justice Department found a minor, noncriminal irregularity on which, as has become the form, they pinned criminal charges . It is not conspiratorial to say that the charges also serve the right wing agenda, including the maintenance and enforcement of divisions of knowledge and everharsher penalties for intellectual property violations,The prosecution does not have to articulate the goals of the system even to itself; everything is already in place.

emphasis is mine ...

No joking allowed

[dpbsmith]

The insidious thing about counterterror efforts is the slow but steady chilling effect they are having on humor and eccentric self-expression.

Twenty-five years ago I was talking to a friend about a book I'd been reading about the Trinity atomic bomb tests. Naturally I kept saying "atomic bomb." As we happened to be in an airport at the time, and happened to be approaching security, he started to look increasingly nervous and finally said something. He was right, of course, but what's the effect?

The effect is that I am now self-conscious about what I talk about in security checkpoints... and airports in general (after all, they're monitoring book titles)... and public places in general. I obviously don't talk seriously about bombs, and by extension I certainly mustn't joke about bombs, and of course the safest thing is not to joke at all.

I'm not going to wear satirical political T-shirts at public events where Bush is speaking... in fact maybe it's just prudent not to wear satirical T-shirts at all.

I've been delighted by the emergence of cheap "blinkies," those little battery-powered LED flashers that use strong magnets and attach to clothing, earlobes, etc. Maybe it would be fun to be slightly outrageous and wear some of those just for the heck of it on New Years' Day? No, after the Boston "mooninite" scare and the MIT student who got into trouble the other day, it's probably best not to wear any blinking lights in public.

Don't do anything to tweak public officials. Since you're not sure what will tweak them, best to just shut up and behave compliantly.

Conform. Don't stand out. Wear "normal" clothing. Don't act in any way that calls attention to yourself. Don't read books in public with political or religious titles (except the Bible, of course). Play it safe. Don't joke.

In fact, best not to smile.

Just like Moscow in the days of the Soviet Union.

Re:

[sheldon]

You must be new to Soviet Russia.

Why privacy is important

[lymond01]

This defines why illegal wiretapping and other invasive procedures should be done away with. A perfectly innocent person who is taken in by police on mistaken charges, then gets some petty mail fraud charge thrown at him. All after his wife's death. Unless we can agree upon what is right and wrong and not have people just make things up as they go, stay out of my business, because I'm guessing sneezing is going to be a felony soon enough.

Re:

[QuantumG]

"Land of the scared" is not only more satirical but it also rhythms!

Re:

[dwater]

> but it also rhythms!

What does "rhythms" mean? Did you mean "rhymes"? In which case, with what does it rhyme?

Re:

[QuantumG]

Yes, rhymes, thanks spell checker. And obviously, 'scared' rhymes with 'land' but maybe in your dialect of english it doesn't.

Re:

[dwater]

> And obviously, 'scared' rhymes with 'land' but maybe in your dialect of english it doesn't.

I'm traveled a fair bit, and I've yet to hear a dialect or accent where those two words rhyme.

Perhaps it's our definition of 'rhyme' that differs.

Re:

[vux984]

Any artist whose art can be mistaken for a biological weapon ought to be detained imho. What was so bad about paintings and sculptures of people and nature that they had to be completely abandoned by modern artists in favor of making mostly stuff that a scrap yard would turn down as too hideous.

Being vindictive to innocent people who have or like things that are complicated or blink is just plain silly.

You are aware, I'm sure, that most real biological weapons and bombs look entirely innocuous. You know,

Re:He asked for it....

[ricree]

Did you actually read the article linked here? The projects that were confiscated were actually interesting and IMHO worthwhile. At any rate, I can see no reason that they should have caused any problems once their identity was confirmed. In case you didn't bother to read the article, here is the relevant section.

Three projects seemed to really bother law enforcement. Critical Art Ensemble was working on a biochemical defense kit against Monsanto's Roundup Ready products for use by organic and traditional farmers. That was all confiscated.

We had a portable molecular biology lab that we were using to test food products labeled "organic" to see if they really were free of GMO contaminant. Or, when in Europe, to see if products not labeled as containing GMOs really had none. We'd finished the initiative in Europe and were about to launch here in the U.S. when the FBI confiscated all our equipment.

Finally, we were a preparing project on germ warfare and the theater of the absurd. We were planning to recreate some of the germ warfare experiments that were done in the '50s (which were so insane that they could only have been paid for with tax dollars). We had two strains of completely harmless bacteria that simulated the behavior of actual infectious diseases -- plague and anthrax. To accompany these performances, we were in the middle of a manuscript on the militarization of civilian health agencies in the U.S. by the Bush administration.

Re:

[the eric conspiracy]

Anyone dealing with infectious agents of any kind

So everyone who has a common cold or athlete's foot should be "under careful scrutiny and control" ???

Anyone can go visit a local lake and come up with a culture more harmful than what this guy had. The natural environment is full of this stuff. Leave a bagel out on your kitchen counter for a weekend and you have a bioterrorism weapon?

Let's get real here.